I've had my Celica since 2005. It's a ZR model which was released in Australia with the 5SFE engine. The ZR came with a few nice little extras like the leather wheel and gear knob, airbag, ABS, cruise control etc. I wish it had the sunroof, but unfortunately the original owner was too tight to tick the option box!
My current plans are to build a car that I can enjoy on the weekends and take out to the occasional track day. I used to have an AE86 JDM Levin that I took to the track, so I'd really love to get back into that.
I toyed with the idea of selling it and buying a later model WRX or EVO, but I reckon for less than $10,000 I can build a car that might not be a rocket ship, but will definitely be good fun.
I'm not really into the visual side of things, so most of the work will be around making the car more fun and enjoyable to drive.
Current mods:
hey, good looking Celica, looks clean.
Its good to see more Aussie cars on here. Do you mind me asking how much you picked up the Beams for? Do you even need a Engineers Certificate? I wouldn't think so, cause you're actually downsizing the motor and its still NA. Keep us posted with your progress.
I purchased my engine today, woo! It arrives on Monday and then the fun begins. It cost me $2,750 plus $200 for shipping from the Gold Coast to Brisbane.
Unfortunately it's the earlier non-LSD model, which is a shame, but at least I could use that fact to bargain them down a extra couple of hundred! I had found an LSD model elsewhere, but they wanted $1,000 more and it was just the engine + box + loom.
The bigger brakes (I think they're bigger?) look to be in good condition and the instrument cluster is also perfect, so there are a few extra goodies I should be able to swap over.
Here's a couple of pics:
sweet find......
what year do you think it is ?
I think it's atleat a 97, which should have helical LSD. Take a post a pic of the name plate on the firewall (it's in the 2nd pic) and the brakes.
oo very nice!!
Yes, SS-II with BEAMS
SS-II is (E-ST202-BLMVF)
5 speed manual non lsd (S54-06A) the difference is the A & the D, the D refer to the LSD model of transmission.
anyway...... Welcome to 6GC.net ....... and to the 3S-GE family , hope you have fun with your build, quite a few members have swapped a beams if you run into any problems or need help, (although you should find it easier being RHD compared to LHD)
Rusty beat me to it, SS-II w/o lsd
Clip looks clean
Nice mate
Will be keeping an eye on this one
Very nice ride. It is good to see more Aussies on here
Good luck with your project. I hope it all goes well.
Thanks guys.
Just finished reading the great thread on the 7th gen short shift, so I've ordered an ebay kit which should arrive next week.
Also decided that I'm going to try and swap the climate control from the clip into my car. Reading a few of the threads on the forums it seems to be quite an involved job, but at least I know I'll have all the right parts.
Really looking forward to starting on the conversion.
The cut (or clip as you guys in the US call them) was supposed to arrive today, but now won't arrive until tomorrow. Doesn't really matter since I won't be starting work until next week anyway.
I thought I might have dramas getting a replacement timing belt, but I called my local Toyota dealer, quoted part number 13568-80015 and he said he'd have one available tomorrow! Not bad considering the Beams was never sold here in Australia.
Looking at steering wheel options now...
Good job mate, look forward to the results
Thanks man. I love your GT4, very nice!
I finally succumbed and bought a set of JDM tails. They will be the only visual mod to my car other than the wheels which I've had for ages.
The cut arrived today!
First of all I have to thank the towie who delivered it. He went out of his way to get the cut inside my garage without the use of a forklift or anything else besides his truck and our muscle! Thanks champ.
Nothing much to share at this stage besides some pics, as the real work doesn't start until this weekend.
Here's Mr Beams checking out his new home for the first time...
And little red eyeing off Mr Beams...
Do the carpets match the drapes? They will soon!
I'll be swapping over the cluster and probably the silver panels, I have a new centre for the leather wheel ordered, and I'm going to have a crack at transfering the climate control over too.
Fun times ahead.
shame the airbag has gone off, they are a cool looking OE wheel
LAL @ carpet matching the drapes. Nicely done. That's a great steering wheel indeed, perforated leather and red stitching is madly tasty.
Best of luck with the swap, I'm eager for more progress.
Some slow progress is happening...
I ordered a bunch of engine parts from Toyota, just the usual things like water pump, thermostat, timing belt etc. Also managed to score a new Beams badge which will probably make its way onto the back of the car.
After trying to track down an engine crane I found that the cost to buy one was about the same as hiring one for two weeks! So I just bought one.
I also realised that the front calipers are twin piston, so they will be getting swapped over as well.
Most of the cut is stripped out now, so I just need to pull the engine out and get started on the maintenance.
More progress!
After having a little difficulty pulling the Beams out of the clip I ended up dropping the engine out from underneath instead. It worked a treat, but I managed to smash one of the plastic plugs on the throttle body. Oops... I'll take a pic tomorrow during daylight. Hopefully the replacement plug isn't too expensive.
So anyway the engine is out and tomorrow I'll get started on the maintenance side of things, then it will be the turn of the 5SFE to come out from it's comfy home.
Getting back to those extra parts I ordered from Toyota, I called them yesterday to see if they were in yet (there should have arrived on Monday) and the guy said there was no record of my order! He didn't sound to helpful, but said he'd look into it and get back to me. I felt a little let down by my beloved Toyota, but just ten minutes later the guy called back and said he could have the parts for me tomorrow (today) and he'd give them to me for trade price. Thanks Toyota!
Okay now I have a couple of questions:
1. The Beams is currently still attached to the sub frame and sitting on my garage floor. My mate reckons we should use the same method to install it into my car, by just lifting the body up and over the engine, then just bolting the sub frame into place.
Is this the best option? Is there an easier way to pull the 5SFE out of my car, then detach the Beams from its sub frame and drop into my car? It seems like this is the way more people go with.
2. I read elsewhere on the forum that the correct clutch combo was a 3SGE pressure plate, 3SGE or 5SFE disk and 5SFE throw out bearing. I went to my local clutch guy and we looked at the part numbers, and he reckoned the complete kit for the 3SGE would work. Does that sound right? Well that's what I've got, so I guess we'll see if it works.
Thanks
the clutch combo thing, is only for us U.S.A. guys, we dont have those parts here. Aussie received some Rav4s with beams, you have access to this, which is great...
to anwer your engine question thing, there are more than 3 ways to skin a cat...., whatever works for you... in my case i used a engine hoist...
Wouldn't it be easier to swap everything over (the engine, gearbox, axles and brakes) It should make your job for finding/getting the right parts in the future simpler?
More questions...
1. Removing the gearbox. As you can see in my last pic, the engine and gearbox are still attached to the sub frame. I'm taking the gearbox off to replace the clutch, and so far I've removed all of the bolts that go from the box to the block but I'm unsure about what happens with the axles. I assume I have to remove the axle from the front of the engine in order to remove the box? Are there any other tips to removing the box? Some guidance here would be appreciated.
2. Removing the crank pulley bolt. I've Googled and found plenty of different methods, but most of them relate to having the engine still in the car and being able to put the car in gear. With my engine and box sitting on the floor and in neutral, are there any tips or tricks to getting the bolt loosened?
Any help with these two questions would be very much appreciated.
I wouldn't of thought you'd have to take axles out but it would make it easier, haven't done it on the celica so can't be much help.
Have you tried a rattle gun on the pulley? should come straight off.
Congrates but, how long were the front brakes sitting like that?
and for the TPS quick check gets me... $78 or $110ish AUD
No work on the Celica yesterday, instead I was lucky enough to spend the day at the Porsche Sport Driving School.
It was a great day, with the highlight being the 911 Turbo. 473hp and 0-100kph in 3.7s is simply awesome. Coming out of the corners with that much power going though the tyres is a LOT of fun!
Here's me getting out of the GT3 after a few laps. It doesn't have the power of the turbo, but the handling is unreal. The full cage and harnesses makes it feel like more of a race car too.
Driving my Celica home was a bit of a let down to be honest!
Back to reality now...
After a few weeks away I made some really good progress over the weekend.
The old engine is out of my car, and I can't tell you how happy I am to see that dirty old Camry engine out. It should never have been in a Celica to start with!
Here's the state of my garage earlier this weekend, with my one and a half Celicas.
I've finished most of the maintenance on the Beams, with the timing belt, water pump and thermostat done. The new clutch kit is almost ready to go, but I just have to get the flywheel machined first.
Once I get the flywheel done and order a new TPS (which I broke earlier in the process) I should be on the home straight and ready to get the Beams into its new home.
Should be on the road next weekend, fingers crossed!
your donor clip has ABS too if your car didn't have it
just to confirm something, can you take of a picture of the hole in your transmission. Since we all know you don't have Helical LSD, I just need you to snap a pic of that hole that you put your axles through. If I'm not mistaken, if you should have a small bar inside the differential which means you have an open differential, but pics will confirm it much better. please and thank you!!
IT'S IN!
Finally got the gearbox on, and everything else was pretty easy after that.
Now the fun starts with the wiring. From what I've read on 6GC the wiring should be almost plug and play, with a few changes required for the cruise control. Is that correct?
nice work! cruise control on the beams really, I took mine off its your weekend car right, take off the cruise control it keeps the engine bay much tidier but thats my opinion.
i took mine off too actually.
grr. I envy you right now. I'm having the same problem you had before, I can not line up the transmission properly so that I can mount it back onto the block of the engine!!!
sweet work there mate, you will be stoked once you are out cruising again!!
damn sorry to hear that. No i was envious of you being able to install the transmission so easily. I tried last night for 3 hrs but had no luck. but No I don't envy you, i just wish you the best of luck getting everything back on again. Ya I've had my car for 3 months and still haven't felt the power of the beams engine. So I know how you feel.
Awsome that someone in Australia has finally done this! wish you lived closer and It could be some motivation for me to do the same! cars looking awsome too, nice to see the right tails are finally on there .
That GT3 would of been unreal, I hate getting in ridiculous cars then getting back in the celica, its death lol.
The engine is now fully installed, but I can't get the thing to start!
The engine turns over, but won't fire. We're pretty sure the problem is the fuel pump, as there is no fuel pressure. The relay on the ECU is operating, so the issue seems to be somewhere between there and the fuel pump. It was working fine with my old 5SFE just last week, so I'm sure it must be a wiring issue rather than an issue with the pump itself.
There are issues with the dash wiring too. I thought I had read it was pretty much plug and play besides the cruise control, but I can confirm that is not the case here! I installed the instrument cluster from the clip, but nothing works properly. The door ajar light comes on when I flash the high beams, the handbrake light comes on when I indicate, and the dash lights don't work at all.
So now I'm thinking the best course of action is to fit the whole interior wiring loom from my clip, and that way surely everything will work fine. Having read through the threads on removing the whole dash it sounds like a pretty big job, but it should solve the fiddly work of rewiring everything. This should also make the job of installing the JDM climate control easier, as I can just do the whole lot all at the same time.
ha yes sir removing the dashboard is one helk of an annoying job. Well good to see your making progress keep at it man. Your almost there.
Yeah swapping over the interior wiring and everything will probably be the best course of action for you, it may even get your fuel pump working
that includes all the electrics in behind the 2 kick panels aswell and the interior fuse box
the plug behind the steering wheel will save you from buying that adaptor loom also
and good thinking on that climate control.
-----
But, what will you do about that cut door wiring? I still think somewhere along the way there will be some repinning with your original interior wiring. Good luck!
I swapped over both interior looms today, what a fun job... Things are looking much better in terms of the right dash lights coming on at the right times, but I'm still having this issue of the engine turning over but not firing.
Previously I thought the issue was with the fuel pump, so today I ran power directly to the pump and could hear it working. I tried cranking the engine at the same time, but I still had the same issue again of turning over but not firing.
I'm really struggling for ideas. I feel that I'm heading in the right direction with swapping the interior looms over, but I just can't work out why the engine won't fire. I've seen the engine start when it was still in the clip, so there really should be no excuses now.
I've been playing with the car again, but still no start. I have no spark, and I still have no fuel pressure unless I connect the fuel pump directly to the power. I've re-checked all plugs and earthing points, but I still can't work it out. Any ideas???
I'm also about half way through converting to auto climate control, which should be a nice little change.
Still no luck with getting the engine running, but I'm working on it with thanks to my thread in the tech section.
I'm a bit bummed out about that, so I went out today and picked up this to lift my spirits:
Yep, a GT4 bumper. It's been stored not so well, so the gap under the grille has squashed down and the plastic supports have broken. It shouldn't be too difficult to fix, and I'll have to get it resprayed to suit my car anyway. I've also ordered a GT4 bonnet which should arrive next week.
I was a little torn on whether or not to go with the GT4 front. First of all because I liked the idea of a sleeper with my Beams engine, and secondly because my car isn't a GT4, so why make it look like something it's not? But at the end of the day, I love the look of the GT4 and have done since they were new, so stuff it I want it on my car too!
And finally here's a pick pf the dash before I installed the new climate control boxes. You don't see Celica interiors this naked very often. The wiring was all out originally as well, but I'd started reinstalling for testing purposes when this was taken.
Can't wait to get back on the road. Hopefully soon...
I have accepted defeat... The mobile auto electrics bloke is visiting next week to get things sorted out. It's a shame I guess, but I really want to get this car back on the road!
In the meantime I will finish the twin piston caliper conversion and a few other bits and pieces. I've also decided to go with the silver interior panels from the SS-II donor car, but they've seen better days so I'll be giving them a fresh coat of dark silver.
It's alive! The auto electrician sorted it out very quickly. Have to go now, but will post more info tomorrow.
Very happy to hear the Beams singing.
Congrates on getting it going!
As I expected, the problem was incredibly minor - just a loose plug and a missing fuse! I'd checked everything a million times, but I guess it takes a fresh pair of eyes to pick these things up sometimes.
I felt a bit stupid to get an auto electrician out just for that, but at least it wasn't anything major. $80 well spent I say!
Here's a quick video of the Beams in action (shot using iPhone = crap quality!). The engine sounds a bit strange at 0:53 but it's just because my finger slipped over the microphone.
http://youtu.be/ar2ZnqT0BXY
Now to put everything back together and get this thing back on the road!
muhha it lives. Very nice. Almost there!!!!
There are a few more little jobs to finish, but they shouldn't take too long:
Lol st202. Hey I got a spare set of foggies if u need em
looking good dude! awsome that you got her started, can't wait till you get more videos up.
How were your old interior panels? I'm in need of the centre ones and I've been tossing up if I should paint them or buy them, most paint jobs I've seen have been revolting but those dark grey ones above look good, what paint did you use?
Awesome!
The interior is finished!
Well, almost... I still need to get a new gear knob and eventually seats, but here she is for now.
Changes from standard include:
looking great, not long now
DONE!!!
Tonight I drove the Celica out of the garage for the first time in a month!
I would have taken it out for a sneaky drive, but I want to give it a full check tomorrow morning during daylight so I can double check everything.
But very happy to have moved the car with Beams power for the first time.
Driving report to come tomorrow...
You can make your climate control orange to match your dash by unscrewing the bulbs and taking off the green condoms
you can also get LED's for those but they are tricky to get, they are special bulbs built into tiny sockets rather than the norm of separating bulb and socket
Glad to hear the Beams is going great, that must be awesome compared to that 5s-fe boat anchor
Not a lot of progress over the last few days, but I have taken her out for a quick drive with the new engine.
Given that my exhaust is not connected the car is obscenely loud (not in a good way) so I couldn't really do much. From the short drive I did the engine doesn't feel any different to the old 5SFE, but not taking the revs over 5,000rpm probably explains that.
Next week I'll be getting the exhaust sorted out and can take it for a proper drive. At this stage I'm just glad that everything works!
Yeah man, That 2.0L High compression motor should be taking on the same load as the low comp 2.2L, it should be more fuel efficient down there too. Make sure you top up with high octane petrol to really feel the difference.
You should also notice sharper throttle response at the tip of the pedal too?
Once that VVT-i opens up though, at the point where your 5S-FE started to pick up pace and then fall flat, your 3S-GE Beams will pull harder and harder towards the extended redline.
Did you sort that seal out? theres a special tool for prizing wheel bearing and axle seals, makes life alot easier!
the difference between putting 100 ron (which is what the beams takes in order to push out its full 197 hp) vs putting 95 ron is quite a lot for a N/A vehicle. This has not been tested in any way or dynoed for that matter, but it feels like you lose about 5-6hp with the crummy 95 ron fuel. The best we carry In California is 95 ron so sometimes when I'm carrying extra cash with me I like to mix 4-5 gallons at most of 100 octane race fuel to obtain a 100 ron mixture of gas.
I've just had the new exhaust fitted. It's a 2.25" system with a high-flow cat and straight through muffler.
So now I've had a bit more time to experience the Beams, and I have to say... I'm disappointed.
I'd have thought a power increase of almost 50% would be very noticeable, but it's not. Even driving in the 6-7k rpm range it doesn't feel that special. I think last time I filled up was on standard fuel, but even with the 5-6hp difference that Bonzai pointed out with higher octane fuel, I hardly think I'll be massively impressed.
Now I'm kind of regretting not going the 3SGTE path instead, but hopefully I can get the Beams running better and look forward to some more enjoyable driving.
Im on the same boat my motor is not fully at 100% but its still fun nonetheless. Get some dyno runs in and ull know if u have all the 197 hp at the crank. It shud conver to 169 whp
I suggest getting it dynoed. the 197BHP was the claim/selling point in reality could be less.
Someone has dynoed a stock redtop BEAMS engine, and made 154WHP (115KW). However with people swapping and adding mods, it can vary from 145WHP - 170WHP (108KW - 126KW)
If you're used to driving fast (turbocharged) cars alot, 5S-FE to 3S-GE wont feel all that special, but if 5S-FE is all you've known, 3S-GE should be amazing. Well atleast when I went from 3S-FE to Gen3 3S-GE, the other side of the tacho's 4 marker was amazing and unlike anything I had prior.
There was simply power in places that were never there before, and additional power in the lower to mid range.
But definitely needs high octane fuel, otherwise the ecu will pull the timing and it'll be sluggish as before.
Have you done a compression test? I would of assumed the beams would be awsome fun, I had a 4th gen for a couple months and even though it had less power than my car as it was old it still was loads of fun to drive as it actually liked to rev and stay in the redzone, unlike the 5sfe which seems to be aimed more at low down torque and not much up high, even the first gen 3sge is a nicer motor imo.
go take some similar power to weight cars (7th gen, renault clio, prelude vti-r etc) to see how they compare and maybe you won't feel so bad, I know when I get in my car after driving my dads clio it feels pathetic, feels similar to mine down low until you hit 4k+ haha.
I dont know why you guys are having problems with the beams, i had no problems what soever.
The beams power is not on the 1 to 4 rpm range, it feels like a regular motor, the power starts as soon as u hit 4 rpm, you feel the engine just want more and more...
check for codes, leaks, and sensors.
beams has power, and its fun to drive.
I suggest getting it dynod to know if its truely down on power or are you being a bit too expectant.
going from a 3sge non beams to a beams is not much difference.
from a 5sfe to beams is a lot
Nice looking car!
I'm sorry you are disappointed with the power. I figured the beams would feel a lot like a gsr dc2 integra, and having driven a few, I know they are by no means fast. That is why I ended up opting for 3sgte.
ya me going from a 7afe to a beams motor is quite a difference I say! and yes its fun to drive if your cars running at 100%. compression test should be at 198.7 psi across each cylinder.
Here are you steps:
1. Compression Test with psi being at 198.7 max for each cylinder. Make sure you disconnect the EFI Fuse or else your injectors won't throw fuel into the spark plugs. haha thats a mistake I made.
2. Make sure your timing is on par? come to think about it is there a way to know if my timing is on par??? I do not have a timing gun, but how do those work anyhow??
3. ya max output from a stock beams motor is 169whp. with your 2.25 inch exhaust your power-band will move up a bit and you'll lose a bit of midrange torque.
here are dyno results with mods to different cars/engines on the beams redtop forums
http://www.mr2.com/forums/beams-owners-group/Toyota-MR2-7792-beams-dyno-results-registry.html
Thanks for the tips and comments. I knew the Beams wasn't going to be a rocket ship, but I did expect a 50% increase in power to be more noticeable.
The engine revs nice and freely, and it has no problems getting to 7,000rpm pretty quickly, but it just doesn't feel as good as it should. Down low the engine is just as I expected (much the same as the 5SFE) but up high it just seems to rev without delivering a whole lot. I've owned two 4AGE powered cars, and both seemed to pull much harder in the high rev range. I would expect the Beams to behave similarly, but with even more up high thanks to the VVT-i.
Is there any way to check if the VVT-i is activating properly?
Anyway, I'll follow Bonzai's tips and get the car on a dyno. That should answer the question on whether my car is down on power or if I was just expecting too much!
waaaaaaaaaBWARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
the compression for each cylinder should be identical. If one of your cylinders is not the same as the others, the range should only be off by 8 psi at most. That was the case for one of my cylinders
I took the car out again last night, and I must say it's starting to feel a lot better. Maybe not quite up to expectations, but enough to keep me satisfied. I'll be filling her up with some high octane fuel today, so hopefully that will give the little extra that I'm looking for.
^ You're rocking 18's, ever think that your wheels are quite heavy and therefore holding acceleration back?
Yeah, but I had the same wheels with the 5SFE, so I should still feel the 50% power increase regardless. Plus, when I originally had the wheels fitted the car certainly didn't feel any slower. So on that basis, I'm discounting the wheels as being a major issue.
I agree, so long as the rolling diameter is within tollerance levels (+/- 3%) of factory fitment (ie, 1 inch up, 5% less sidewall) then his wheels shouldn't really be slowing him down, even the worst chrome wheel is still designed to be a car wheel, not a boat anchor. the cars are heavy as is, changes like that are less proportionate to Celicas as they are to sub-1000kg rice rockets.
Like for example removing 100kg from a Celica would do more for a Celica than it would for a petrol tanker if you removed 100kgs from it (exaggerated to make the point)
Let us know how you get along with high octane, as these engines run on 100 RON in Japan, anything less will start to trip the knock sensor and the car will pull timing when you start to put your foot down. It will feel like a 5S if it starts pulling timing. You'll notice it in load points above 2500rpm and half throttle, when I had 3S-GE I always noted the difference between 91 and 95 to be great throughout the entire rev range, and the same difference again in the upper half of the rev range between 95 and 98 octanes.
Project update
Time for a project update and pics.
Beams engine
The engine is in and has been back on the road for about a week now. There were no major dramas with the instal, just frustrating little things along the way.
I swapped over the entire front end, including the engine, gearbox, axles, brakes, power steering rack, subframe, radiator, as well as the engine and front chasis looms.
Maintenance including replacing the clutch, waterpump, thermostat, oil filter and driveshaft seal. The engine and gearbox oil were both replaced.
The finishing touch was a new 2.25 inch exhaust with a high flow cat and straight through muffler.
SS-II brakes
The SS-II came with the same size rotors, but with twin piston calipers. The swap was basically bolt-on, but I had to use the brake hoses from the SS-II as the standard ones were too short. I also had to change one of the brake lines as the thread was stripped. It would have been much easier if I'd have done this whilst the engine was still out!
The new brakes don't feel any different on the street, but hopefully on the track they'll give a little something extra.
Auto climate control
This was one of the most painful jobs of the whole project. It wasn't difficult since everything just bolted in, but I had to strip the interior completely bare since the auto climate control uses different boxes to the standard Celica air con. This also meant changing both interior looms as well as the front chasis loom which included another sensor. Stripping the interior down to the firewall is an awful job to do!
I haven't had the gas recharged yet, so I can't confirm whether the air will work, but I can't forsee any problems. The system is working fine on the heater side (which is great since it's almost winter here in Australia) and the temperate changes with the temperate knob, as it should do.
Interior
Changes to the interior include the auto climate control, SS-II white face guage cluster and three spoke leather wheel. The airbag had gone off, but I ordered a new center on ebay which bolted straight in, and I'm happy to report that I had no issues with the airbag light. Because I'm using a 6th gen three spoke wheel and centre I didn't have to adapt any of the wiring or plugs like we have to with 7th gen wheels.
I also had a 7th gen short shift kit to go in, but I've since found that the JDM and Aussie Celicas use a slightly different setup to the USDM models, so I can't use the kit unfortauntely. The shift in this car isn't that long anyway, so I'm not too bothered.
Exterior
During the engine conversion I also ordered some JDM tails which make a nice improvment to the back. I also got rid of the badges which I'd been wanting to do for years.
I also picked up a GT4 bonnet and front bumper, but these will be sitting in the shed for a while until I'm ready to have them painted and fitted.
Updated car specs
nice job man. Now tell us how it feels to drive
Thise octNe boosters are marketing scams they might raise ur octane to 1 point. Make sure u buy some fuel injector cleaner or if i was u i wud of got my injectors cleaned n tested by a shop. 98 ron will do just fine.
Yeah 98 is perfect, even 95. Just not 91 (this is what Americans call 87 or something), which is what you would have been running for 5S-FE
Ur wrong 91 octane equals to 95 ron. In the us we measure the amount that fuel reacts by octane as to europe n japan use ron.
95 ron is not recommended for beams motor only 98 ron and even better 100 ron
Do you read before you correct? In this part of the world we use RON (Australia and NZ), 91ron does not = 95ron. 95 ron is sold at some petrol stations as premium, while others carry 98ron as premium. All gas stations carry 91ron as regular unleaded. In this part of the world (AUDM, NZDM, even JDM) Toyota FE engines run on 91ron which is what he would have been using with the 5S-FE.
It is perfectly fine to use a 3S-GE (Any gen) whether ACIS, Redtop Beams, or Altezza Blacktop Beams in areas that only carry 95ron, but as I mentioned theres still a little more performance to gain by filling up at a petrol station that sells 98ron.
Probably similar in Australia, but we have in NZ
Shell V-Power - 95 octane
Caltex Techron - 95 octane
BP Ultimate - 98 octane
Mobil 8000 - 98 octane
here we all drive JDM Japanese used imports, depending on the area you're in, you won't always get a choice of stopping at a petrol station with 98, sometimes you have to settle for 95. It's still supposed to be alot more powerful running a Beams on 95 than a 5S-FE.
Our engines have things called knock sensors for a reason...
Well, whatever measure they use here in Australia I've been using the 98 stuff. I was using the 95 with my 5SFE anyway, not the cheap 91 stuff. I've also run some injector cleaner through as suggested.
After two weeks with the car back on the road I am reasonably satisfied. The power is still below expectations, but I'm having fun with it.
One thing I have definitely noticed is the improved fuel economy. With the old 5SFE I would struggle to get 500km out of a tank, but with the new engine I'm not even two thirds through the tank and I've already done 450km. And I haven't exactly been driving in a fuel efficient manner if you know what I mean!
But I'd give up the fuel economy for more power....
I do have a problem with the car though. It's making a strange creaking noise from the front end at low speed. I've started a new topic in the suspension section here. I've been told it could be the tie rod ends. I swapped these over with the rest of the front end from the donor car, so I'll fit some new ones and see if that fixes the problem.
Are there any codes that come up when you put it in diagnostic mode? then it should be working fine
You could put a voltmeter on the VVTi solenoid to see if its getting a signal from the ecu.
I fitted the GT4 rear strut brace today. I also scored the vinyl sleeve and plastic covers which was a good bonus. The plastic colour looks a bit different thanks to the camera flash, but in person you can't really tell. Not that I care anyway, since no one looks in my boot!
I don't know that it will make too much difference, but for $150 shipped and about five minutes of labour it's worth having, especially since I intend to head back to the track once I get a few other little things sorted.
I intend to keep this car for quite a while, so I figure it's better to grab this type of thing while it's cheap and easy to get, rather than waiting until it becomes rare. It's the same deal with my GT4 bumper and bonnet that are sitting in my shed. I might not have them painted and fitted for another year or more, but at least I have them now.
The car is going pretty well otherwise. After a few tanks of good fuel she seems to be revving much better and feels really strong. It's quite gutless to around 4,500rpm but after that the fun starts. I'll still get it on the dyno eventually to check the power, but for now I'm happy.
The bar made a difference for me. I noticed a definite stiffness that I didn't have while hitting corners at 35+. Rear doesn't squish as much. I'm also used to auto-xing a sedan which was stiff to begin with, so this was a squishy car when I took a corner the first time.
Cool, that sounds good to me. I haven't cornered the car hard yet, as I still have some noises post-engine conversion that I want to sort out first.
Suspension is next on the list, but I'm torn between the BC Racing coilovers and the KYB GR2 shocks. It's a $900 difference between the two, and I already have suitable lowered springs if i go with the KYBs.
I've started a new thread in the suspension section here.
Glad to hear its starting to work out for you, Yeah as I suspected, once you get that nasty 91/95 RON out of there in place for some BP Ultimate 98 or Mobil 8000, 98 the Beams will go to work for you in those high revs like it should.
Don't worry about the sub 4500 performance, I noticed when I went from 3S-FE to 3S-GE (SS-I to SS-III) the lower revs were pretty much the same, but on the FE when you got past 4000 it felt like it was about to pick up but then quickly fell flat by 5000, whereas the GE felt much the same down low (little bit more responsive) but once 4500 came around, it pulled all the way into the red without falling flat, it just picks up and keeps going and going and goin, I think your 5S-FE to Beams experience will be much similar.
And if you can afford it, BC's are the way to go. Shouldn't be tooo expensive I paid $1300 for my ST205 set which is less than half the price of a Tein set but not half as bad
Im all for stiffening the rear on these cars too, understeer is a problem lol
I think the BC coilovers will be the go. I thought the KYBs would be more of an upgrade, but having read that they're merely an OEM equivalent I wouldn't bother.
The Konis are an interesting idea, but I think I'll just go coilovers and be done with it. Now I just have to convince my fiance that $1,300 is better spent on suspension rather than going towards our wedding, honeymoon, house renovations... the list goes on!
If you're low on money just go the kyb's and a rear sway bar, thats pretty much all I have on my setup and the handling surprises most people when they come in it/drive it.
One thing that I did recently which made the ride better, turn in better and less noise was the strut mounts, seeing as the ones in it were gone it made the thing ride horribly.
I must admit, I used koni yellows on the track in another car and they were fkn awsome, the adjustability made a big difference!
Just ordered the BC coilovers.
Regarding that creaking noise I was complaining of a while back, a mechanic mate of mine drove the car and said it would be sway bar bushes for sure. I haven't had a chance to get under and check, but hopefully that's all it is.
So once the coilovers are in and the bushes are replaced it will be time to hit the track. I've also just landed a decent promotion, so there's a little more play money available for the car.
I picked these up today:
I've also ordered some nolathane bushes for the front sway bar, so I'll wait for those to arrive before I fit everything.
Really looking forward to getting these in the car and hitting the track again.
The best part is the top camber adjustment. That'll make alignment so easy. Also, if you need rear camber adjustment beyond the strut, I can get you camber bolts with cams at a 12.5 grade
*Like this*
I just finished installing my new coilovers.
I've taken the car for a quick drive, but nothing too serious so I can't comment on the handling just yet.
What I'm most happy about is that my annoying creaking sound has gone!
I have some nolathane bushes on order and was going to wait for them, but I got tired of waiting and decided to install the coilovers first. Then I realised that I still had the swaybar bushes from my old setup which seemed to be in good condition, so I gave them some grease and installed.
I don't know if the creaking sound has been fixed thanks to the swapped bushes or the coilovers, but either way I'm happy.
The car sits too high now, but I can lower it back down later.
A couple of pics:
You can also see my twin piston front calipers in this shot:
I'll take a pic of the car once I've adjusted the ride height.
Congrates with the install and for getting rid of that creaking noise.
So are you going to see how it goes at the track first and then upgrade your brakes, or upgrade the brakes first?
upgrade your pads before you go to the track. You'll need it
its not about how much wear you have left on your pads. The stock gt pads are meant for daily driving and occasional canyon/autocross. On the track your stock pads will over heat and will start to fade.
For the first time on the track with the new coilovers, I'd say keep the stock because you will be getting used to the car and its driving feel. The next time after that I'd say to buy yourself some track pads and you will start to feel em fade with braking.
AAARRRGGHHH!!!
I lowered my coilovers back down today, and the bloody creaking noise is back!
It's not quite as bad as before, but it's definitely there and very annoying.
I can't work out what it would be. It certainly seems that having the car higher gets rid of the noise, but pre-Beams I was running the same lowered height with no noises. I haven't gone super-low either, it's basically the same height as my old lowered springs.
Any ideas?!?!
try press down each corner of the car, does it happen when you bounce or what? jack it up spin the wheels?? is your rotors rubbing?? is it a turning noise or a rotational noise ???
i seriously doubt standard rubber swaybar bushes would creak.. more likely if u had nolathane in there that it would make some sort of rubbing noise audiable as a creak
engine mounts maybe?, exhaust bangin around on one of the subframes??? rotors scrubbing the pads?
Good progress
I hope you keep your car and represent the Aussie 6GC unlike the other 2 homo (I wont mention name but they start with Whatthe and Euphoria)
So did you ever get it running right? I mean, is it becoming more of what you expected it to be?
its an upgraded 5sfe, once the vvti kicks in its fun, i like it because if you dont hit 4k you are saving gas as well, its a very well tuned engine.... for a daily driver with a kick....
My dogs were very excited when some boxes from Japan turned up this week...
But what was inside...
Projectors and clear high beams!
They're not going on the car yet though, instead they're going straight to the shed to be stored with my GT-Four bonnet and bumper. To complete the look I've also ordered some crystal indicators for the new bumper and I'm tracking down some fog lights similar to those used by TRD-GT4 to match the clear high beams.
I'm going to have everything painted and fitted sometime within the next few months.
In other news, the Beams has developed an oil leak, so I'll have to check that out when I get a chance. Otherwise the car is running awesome and I'm really happy with it now.
I took the car for a good long drive last week up through the local mountains and she performed perfectly. The combination of smooth twisty mountain roads + Beams power + coilovers + decent tyres is fantastic!
I am very happy for you. Glad that you are finally enjoying your beams motor. Is not fast as a turbo car but like you say and all the other beams owners they are fun to drive, want more pedal in high rpms and are reliable for a daily driver. Keep enjoying it. I like to read this treads about 3sge swaps because that's the one I would do when I'll be a proud owner of a celica, they are dissapointed at first with the difficulties doing the engine swap but at the end it was something simple and with the performance they are dissapointed at first but then they like the performance.
Thanks man, I'm happy with it too.
So I still have this creaking sound from the front end, but I think I came a step closer to working it out tonight.
I was sitting at the lights, and for some reason I spun my steering wheel from side to side whilst the car was stationary, and to my surprise the creaking sound happened. Previously I'd always suspected it was something in the suspension making the noise, but this changes things.
Then I remembered talking to the guy who did my exhaust, and he thought it sounded like one of the tie rod ends. I had initially discounted that after a few people on 6GC said they doubted that would be the cause.
Thinking about what actions cause the noise, I reckon the tie rod ends could definitely be the problem.
So anyway I've just ordered a new set, and fingers crossed that I can fix this damn noise this time!
Nice pick up =)
It's been a few months since the conversion was finished, but I finally had my air conditioning re-gassed yesterday. I'm pleased to say that my newly installed auto climate control is working perfectly!
It was a bit of a pain to install, but overall I'd say it was worth it.
how about a rundown of the process to install it? Doesn't the climate control use a bunch of temperature sensors placed around the cabin?
Awsome work as always! and shut up celicazr haha.
Great job on the Beams install. Keep us updated. Did you happen to Dyno it? I'd really like to see what kind of numbers it's putting out.
if you want more power you can add blacktop valves, bucket lifters, and 11.5 compression pistons. Along with an aftermarket ecu you should see a 20 hp gain. plus you'll be adding an extra 1,000 rpm to your rev limit. Also adding the 4.529 final drive from the 2zz-ge transmission you also see an additional 8% percent torque increase. about 14 more pounds of torque
I wish I could "like" that ^ dang
Not much has been happening with the Celi lately, but today I swapped my 18" rims for some OEM 7th gen rims. I'm probably going to powdercoat my old rims white eventually, but for now I'll just stick with these for a while.
A few pages back there was a heap of talk about my heavy rims, so with both sets of wheels off the car I decided to do some weighing...
18" aftermarket wheel & tyre = 21.9kg
15" 7th gen OEM wheel & tyre = 16.4kg
So there's a fair difference between the two! I haven't driven the car to see if it feels any different, but I'll report back here if it does.
Here's a couple of pics with the new rims. They're a lot smaller, but I actually quite like the look! I think the silver colour is what makes them look better.
nice bro they don't look half bad. so thats an extra 24 pounds (12 pounds each wheel) from the front of the vehicle and drivetrain. Hopefully those tires are sticky enough
So I've had a chance to give the car a good run with the lighter wheels, and it has made a bit of a difference, but not massive. I can feel that the acceleration is slightly better, but that will also be benefiting from the smaller rolling circumference of these tyres compared to my old ones.
Grip levels have also dropped as expected!
I'm not sure whether or not to continue developing the Celica now, as I really have my eye on a new 86 when they are released next year. If I get an 86 the Celica will have to go, as we already have a decent daily driver. Decisions decisions...
Oh man. If I had the funds for the 86, I'd def go that way. I hate to say it, and as much as I love the Celica, I feel like the 86 is going to be more fun.
When I did my Beams conversion I kept my original brake booster and master cylinder, but soon after the swap I realised that the master cylinder was touching against the engine timing belt cover (mine's RHD remember).
It turned out that the brake booster and master cylinder combo from the ST202 Beams was way more compact than the one from my ST204, and this was the reason for the problem.
In the pic below, going from left to right you can see the red strut tower, the master cylinder and the black timing belt cover. It's not too clear in the pic, but the master cylinder and timing belt cover are pushed hard up against each other.
I didn't bother doing anything about it, but it has always been a concern that the pressure could be placing stress on the master cylinder, which could one day result in a braking failure.
Thankfully I grabbed all the parts from the clip before scrapping it, and yesterday I finally decided to have a crack at swapping everything over.
Basically everything had to be changed including the brake booster, master cylinder, ABS control box and all of the front brake lines. If I'd have done the swap whilst the engine was out (like I should have) the work would have been easy, but with the engine installed it was a bloody awful task!
Anyway it's all done now and everything seems to be working again. I was a little worried that the ABS control box thingy would be full of air and difficult to bleed after sitting in my shed for over six months, but after bleeding a few bottles of brake fluid through the system it seems to be all good.
I also finally installed the new tie rod ends that I bought back in September, but I can't yet tell if it has fixed the creaking noise problem. I'll head out for a proper drive tomorrow and see.
So the moral of the story is that if you're converting a RHD Celica to Beams power, make sure you have the thin brake booster, and make sure you do the swap BEFORE you put the engine back in!
I've decided it's finally time to get my GT-Four front end fitted.
The bumper was in pretty poor condition when I bought it, with the middle gap squashed down and the little plastic supports broken.
You can sort of see the damage in this old pic, but I really should have taken one from behind the bar as well.
So to fix the bumper I opened up the gap using a piece of timber wrapped in sufficient cardboard to to get the gap right. I left it like this out in the hot Aussie sun for a day to try and stretch it back into position.
Then I cut up an old wire coat hanger to create little square-ish C shaped supports to fix the broken plastic supports, which were then fibre glassed over to keep them in place. I also poured some resin into the supports to strengthen them.
And here it is post-repair. It still looks a little out of shape around the top grille area, but when you put the grille in place it pulls the plastic back into shape and looks near perfect. Well perfect enough for an 18 year old car...
The surface is still in pretty poor shape, so the next job is to prep them for painting.
For the bonnet I've been debating whether to go with a modified latch (or finding a proper GT-Four latch) or going with bonnet pins.
The flush pins used on GT-FOURpl's white GT-Four look pretty cool, so I might go that way. Still deciding...
nice diy skills mate
also glad to hear you have the suspension noise fixed
Thanks Rusty. I am so glad the noise is gone! It's not just the noise though, the whole front end feels more solid now.
In other news, I think my car will be getting a colour change once the GT-Four front has been fitted...
Prep work on the bonnet is going well. There were a few spots where the paint was so poor I had to go back to bare aluminium (especially at the front) but at least the bonnet itself is nice and straight.
The bumper is proving to be a real pain. Luckily it was cheap, but looking back now I should have waited for a better one to come up. Almost finished now though.
I'm undecided on whether or not to put the Toyota badge back on the front at this stage. I've filled in the holes, but they can be easily re-drilled if required.
Still a lot of work to do, and it's not all going as planned, but I think you can see where things are heading...
I had to get the car back together prematurely because I needed to drive it today! The finished product should be much improved.
Looks mean!
Good work mate
Looking forward to seein the finish product!
Thanks guys.
I haven't progressed past the original photo yet, so I'm still rocking the satin black front and red rear.
I'm still thinking about getting a new 86 when they come out next month. I'm torn between buying a new Hilux and keeping the Celica, or selling the Celica and just buying an 86.
PS. Still loving Beams power. I swear this engine keeps gaining power as times goes by! It's rather strange...
I love updates to this thread!... even small ones. My .02, get the Hilux. I will likely fix up my old 86 S-10 4wd this summer when I finish my BEAMS. Little truck for hauling and towing stuff.... car for having fun while driving.
You and I both know you don't want a car payment
exactly the way I see it (everyone hates car payments)
Exactly why I'll never have a new car. Not to mention you lose your ass on them money wise, soon as you drive it off the lot it depreciates. That and you can't work on them.
Any who, awesome car!!!
Dont sell it
Although I wouldnt mind a Beams
I'm thinking of selling this car now, so if anyone is interested please PM me.
I may consider selling some parts separately, but I won't ship anything so you'll have to collect from my place in Brisbane.
It's the end of an era for me!
sad news to hear, all the best with selling it
Shame to see you sell it.
Very rare in Aus
It's too bad to see you selling it after all the work you've put into it. Hopefully the next owner takes as much care of it as you have.
Thanks guys. I still love my Beams, but I want something newer/better/faster and there's just not enough room in the garage. I'm not trying too hard to sell it, but we'll see how it goes.
After having some fun in the Celica over the Christmas break I've decided not to sell her.
I'm still keen to get back into track days, so that will be the focus for this year. I did a bit of research on the GT-Four wing to see if it actually provided any benefit on the track, and apparently it does provide some meaningful downforce at the speeds I'll be doing whilst racing, so I decided to get some CF raiser blocks which I fitted over the weekend:
I'm planning on doing some sessions both with and without the wing to see if the extra downforce through the corners is worth the extra drag on the straights. Both tracks I'll be racing at (Lakeside and Qld Raceway) have some fairly high speed corners, so I think there will be benefits to running the big wing.
Looking forward to getting back into it!
nice to see your keeping a hold of it
have fun on the track
After getting everything done on my 2011 wishlist (and then doing very little in 2012) I've decided to put together a 2013 wishlist.
Here's goes...
This car still is one of my favourite on the forums, It's too bad you don't live nearby so we could have a VVT-i vs VTEC race haha.
I haven't done anything to the old girl lately, but she's still kicking along.
The rain does well to hide the imperfections in this pic...
Still loving the Beams.
Still need to catch up to check out the beams... Still jealous
Looking good... But needs the paint
By the way, Toyota still have one TRD Quickshifter in Sydney and one in Melbourne as far as I can tell. They were asking something silly for them though (I think it was like $550-650).
Shane,
I enjoyed the story of your Celica. I have been considering installing a Beams engine in my 90 Celica GT-S. I am in the USA so a couple of things will be different from your build. I was unhappy to hear you were disappointed with the power of your Beams engine at first. Now that you have had it for a while what do you think of the power output? Does the low end torque below 3,500 RPM suffer compared to the 5sfe? How is your fuel mileage? In the states we use OBD-II for diagnosis. I have heard our scan tools don't work with JDM ECM's. How do you pull trouble codes out of your Beams ECM?
Thank you for your help.
The BEAMS only uses one O2 sensor, which the ECU blatantly disregards. One member here had issues with his O2 sensor but mine won't even throw a CEL if I totally remove the sensor. The general consensus on the BEAMS Owners Group is that the sensor is useless for all intents and purposes. The computer couldn't care less about fuel tank pressure either. All in all, it's a very easy and low maintenance, albeit expensive, swap.
I wasn't living in Evansville when they had those races, but my sister told me about them. Apparently I missed out.
I've driven a couple n/a 3sge's and I think they lack torque downlow compared to a 5sfe but they love singing to redline unlike the 5sfe, Id love to drive a beams.
you need to sell the homo honda and get a 6gc again Josh!
My Celi got hit by a bus last night!
It was the bus driver's fault so the insurance claim should go through smoothly.
New paint must be on the cards now!
Lucky he didn't break the tail light or wheel
SUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even if it wasn't, say it was. Take the city for everything they have.
I'm seeing 34 mpg all day. Fuel savings with 50% more power really makes me want to sell my 5s Celica, keeping my rhd one of course.
With our laws it's more about getting what is considered to be reasonable and fair rather than the "sue sue sue" mentality that seems to be prevalent in the US.
Like in my case, it's reasonable that the council pays to have my car restored to it's previous condition, but it's not reasonable that they'd have to pay $100k or whatever in damages just because the bus driver stuffed up.
At the end of the day I wasn't hurt, my car can be repaired and all will be fine.
PS. The council's insurance company is sending out an assessor to have a second look at my car tomorrow, so hopefully the claim will be finalised shortly and I can get her back on the road.
But now your car has a black mark in its history, that won't be compensated.
True, at least no one was hurt. Perhaps now you can redo some things you'd been wanting to do.
Well it's finally happened. The Celica has been replaced...
Our first child is due later this month so we've gone with a nice new family car. Sticking with Toyota of course!
Here she is...
It runs the 3.5 2GR-FE engine. Nowhere near as exciting as the Beams, but it's nice to be reintroduced to my old friend torque.
The Celica still sits in the garage gathering dust, but it will be sold off soon enough.
PS. Thanks to everyone here on 6GC who helped me through the Beams conversion. Hopefully the person who ends up with my Beams will enjoy it just as much.
Kids fit in small back seats.
Just turn the Celica into a track day car then, you won't be able to get anywhere near what you have in it. Might as well turn it into a fun toy for the weekends.
My Celica has been sold.
It was definitely a little sad seeing it drive away for the last time, but we had a great eight years together and it was time to move on.
Thankfully it is going to a good home where it will be getting the attention it deserves, and I'm super happy that it's not going to be broken up for parts.
I don't imagine that I'll be posting much on 6GC anymore (not that I did much before) but I'll still be checking in on the projects section from time to time.
Cheers
Shane.
PS. If anyone is reading my build thread because they are thinking about doing a Beams conversion, my advice is to do it!
I'm still missing my Celica, but my in-laws bought me this for my birthday to help ease the pain!
I've already ordered some new wheels on eBay to match my real ones.
That's so effing cool. I love Tamiya kits, such intricacy and quality, and they're expensive too! I bought my father a Martini 935, to accompany the Jägermeister model we built. Incredible fun.
Hey all.
It's been over four years since I sold my Celica, but now I'm back...
I just picked up this ST185 GT-Four Group A Carlos Sainz.
Only one previous owner, amazing condition. Very happy.
I won't be modding this one. She's 100% stock and will be staying that way.
Love the CS. Congrats!
Dude radddd man!!! I started the celica life w/ a GTS model; but one day I'll get A RC model like you (but in gray)!!!
Still love the pop-up headlights man, classic!
I'd be happy with a "plain" ST185, seems to be impossible to find one that's not someone's torn apart project for whatever reason.
There you go! that's a dandy. Your old build thread was a solid inspiration for me to move forward with mine years ago.
Car looks really good!
That's beautiful!
wish I could find one in that condition. all the ones here are rusted out and not taken care of.
Thanks guys. I got so lucky with this one. It's had one owner since new, full service history at the same Toyota dealer it was purchased from and no accident damage.
It's been well looked after and I intend to keep it that way.
I still miss my 6th Gen, but this one is special.
No one's gonna blame you dropping the 6th gen for this. I'm sure most of us would do the same if given the chance. and 6gcs are cheap enough that you could alway pick up another one down the road.
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