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6G Celicas Forums _ Forced Induction _ Building a diypnp
Posted by: HardHead93 Nov 25, 2015 - 2:44 AM
I have been having nothing but trouble with my AEM FIC on my 5sfte set up. I have a 97 Celica GT Convertible with a newly rebuilt engine and a 16G CT-26 turbo set up. The ECU is not working well with the signals the piggyback is feeding the stock ECU. Based on a couple of posts I have seen on 6gc.net, I broke down and bought a diypnp 76 pin standalone. The diypnp has all the features I am looking for and the price doesn't break the bank. I just finished soldering the main board and am about to start doing the harness jumpers. Can anyone provide and example for wiring the diypnp?
Posted by: Tigawoods Nov 27, 2015 - 1:24 PM
Lagos is your main man for that. PM him
Posted by: HardHead93 Nov 27, 2015 - 8:22 PM
To start the diypnp project, I cracked open the factory ECU to get the pinout locations.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3575_zpszfzrmuv0.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3576_zpssajourup.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3574_zpsfwe9jz5d.jpg.html
I created the following document to help me.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/97%20Celica%20ECU%20DIYPNP_zpslnt9swbd.gif.html
I am still working out what sensors need to be hooked up and how they need to be wired. My initial goal will be to get the car to start and get the timing right at idle. Then I can start added more sensors and get a drivable street tune. More to come.
Posted by: HardHead93 Nov 28, 2015 - 9:40 PM
Now that I have the pinout locations I need to figure out how to wire them on the motherboard. It really sucks that so much of the factory functionality goes through the ECU. Functions like the back up light, A/C, headlights, defogger, and Cruise Control are all pinouts in the ECU. I think once I get the car running I will figure out how to run 12V power to them. I will also need to determine what are sensors for CEL and what actually control something on the car. This is going to take some time.
Posted by: Smaay Nov 29, 2015 - 8:45 PM
you most certainly need PIM. that is the MAP sensor. it is the main tuning sensor.
Posted by: HardHead93 Nov 29, 2015 - 10:17 PM
The DIYPMP has a built in 2.5 bar MAP sensor so it directs you to leave the factory one unplugged. The only other option is a 4 bar external unit but that still runs through a different pinout than the PIM.
Posted by: delusionz Nov 30, 2015 - 9:35 AM
W is CEL which is a switched ground to the negative side of the CEL bulb. what else?
Posted by: delusionz Nov 30, 2015 - 9:41 AM
ELS just leave it where it is, megasquirt should ignore it or do its own thing with it
in the tuning software you will assign functions onto the pins, so AC in and AC out will be able to be setup, cruise control should too
Posted by: HardHead93 Nov 30, 2015 - 3:09 PM
The big one is the NE and G pinouts. I know they are cam and crank signals but all references say some thing different. Any ideas? Also where does the Tach signal get pulled from?
Posted by: HardHead93 Nov 30, 2015 - 3:20 PM
in the tuning software you will assign functions onto the pins, so AC in and AC out will be able to be setup, cruise control should too
I figured out the A/C. So do I hook up power to the ELS or just leave it? Another question, there are 2 pinouts for ignition (IGS and IGT), but only one spot on the diypnp board what do I do with that?
Posted by: lagos Dec 1, 2015 - 11:08 AM
You don't actually need to wire the majority of those to the ecu. Just stick with the basics of fuel and spark to get the engine running.
Stuff like the defogger input is just there to make the factory ecu idle up when there is an electrical load placed on it. The DIYPNP just monitors its own voltage and allows you to tune for that stuff without an extra input.
As far as AC, I didn't need to fully wire to the ecu to get it to work. All I did was supply an input signal so that the diypnp would know to initial AC idle up... but I would still wait to set that up once you have the car running.
Posted by: HardHead93 Dec 1, 2015 - 1:34 PM
The big one is the NE and G pinouts. I know they are cam and crank signals but all references say some thing different. Any ideas? Also where does the Tach signal get pulled from?
I just heard back from diypnp.com on the question above.
NE=crankshaft
G=camshaft
Just my luck, I wired them the opposite.
Posted by: HardHead93 Dec 2, 2015 - 12:38 AM
You don't actually need to wire the majority of those to the ecu. Just stick with the basics of fuel and spark to get the engine running.
Stuff like the defogger input is just there to make the factory ecu idle up when there is an electrical load placed on it. The DIYPNP just monitors its own voltage and allows you to tune for that stuff without an extra input.
As far as AC, I didn't need to fully wire to the ecu to get it to work. All I did was supply an input signal so that the diypnp would know to initial AC idle up... but I would still wait to set that up once you have the car running.
All done with the wiring and firmware is loaded. What ignition settings do I need? I have a 97 5sfe, California ECU, and distributor with a separate crank sensor (I replaced it when I did the engine rebuild). Also any tips on building a basic tune for a 16G CT26 turbo with 460cc injectors?
Injection Settings
Spark Mode: ?
Trigger Angle: ?
Main/Return: ?
Odd fire Angle: ?
GM HEI/DIS: ?
Use Cam Signal: ?
Ignition Input Capture: ?
Spark Output: ?
Number of Coils: ?
Dwell type: ?
Cranking Dwell: ?
Cranking Advance: ?
Maximum Dwell: ?
Maximum Spark Duration: ?
Trigger wheel arrangement: ?
Trigger wheel teeth: ?
Missing teeth: ?
Tooth #1 angle: ?
Wheel speed: ?
Second trigger active on
and every rotation of: ?
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3584_zpsw218zxni.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3582_zpsobxlykrb.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3581_zpspdsllasw.jpg.html
Posted by: HardHead93 Dec 4, 2015 - 7:41 PM
You don't actually need to wire the majority of those to the ecu. Just stick with the basics of fuel and spark to get the engine running.
Stuff like the defogger input is just there to make the factory ecu idle up when there is an electrical load placed on it. The DIYPNP just monitors its own voltage and allows you to tune for that stuff without an extra input.
As far as AC, I didn't need to fully wire to the ecu to get it to work. All I did was supply an input signal so that the diypnp would know to initial AC idle up... but I would still wait to set that up once you have the car running.
So I have calibrated all the sensors and set up the fuel map and the car will not start. It does turnover but will not start.
What am I doing wrong? I have the following ignition settings.Spark Mode: Toothed Wheel
Trigger Angle: 4.00
Main/Return: 50.0
Odd fire Angle: 90
GM HEI/DIS: Off
Use Cam Signal: On
Ignition Input Capture: Falling Edge
Spark Output: Going High
Number of Coils: Wasted Spark
Dwell type: Standard Dwell
Cranking Dwell: 7.5
Cranking Advance: 10
Maximum Dwell: ?
Maximum Spark Duration: ?
Trigger wheel arrangement: Single Wheel with Missing Tooth
Trigger wheel teeth: 36
Missing teeth: 1
Tooth #1 angle: 0
Wheel speed: Crank Wheel
Second trigger active on
and every rotation of: Rising Edge
Posted by: HardHead93 Dec 7, 2015 - 1:22 AM
I still can't seem to figure it out. The car turns over but will not start. Occasionally it will sputter and almost start so I know it is getting fuel. I put the stock ECU back in with the piggyback and the car started right up. I wonder if it has something to do with the adjustable pull up resistor on the board for the cam and crank sensors. I has the same issue with the AEM FIC piggyback when I put too big of a resistor for the mod to clean up the cam and crank signals. I have the crank sensor running through the LM1815 circuit for a cleaner signal and still nothing. I will see if I can adjust the pull up resistance.
Posted by: lagos Dec 8, 2015 - 12:20 PM
Sorry for the lack of help, been really busy.
I see that you don't have the pull down resistor installed in R21. This is key to getting a cam/crank signal from a Toyota distributor.
The DIYPNP kit supplies you with an extra resistor (I think its a 50kohm?). For my build, I went with a 33kohm as I heard that's what the diyautotune guys settled with for the built 3sgte mspnp units. There is also an adjustable trim pot supplied with the kit that you can try, but I would start out with the fixed resistor. Actually, just noticed that you have the trim pot in there, so you can try adjusting that.
To verify that you are getting cam/crank signals in the Diagnostics & High Speed Loggers section of Turner Studio. Just click to start the logger and crank the car. You should be seeing your cam/crank signals. Adjust the trim pot until you start getting a reading.
PM me your email address, I will send you my excel spread sheet that I made for my car, as well as my current tune. My engine is a 3sgte, but all the settings should be very similar to the 5sfe to get it to start. Just make sure you setup/scale your injectors so that you are not flooding the engine.
Posted by: lagos Dec 8, 2015 - 12:25 PM
Trigger Angle: 4.00
Main/Return: 50.0
Odd fire Angle: 90
GM HEI/DIS: Off
Use Cam Signal: On
Ignition Input Capture: Falling Edge
Spark Output: Going High
Number of Coils: Wasted Spark
Dwell type: Standard Dwell
Cranking Dwell: 7.5
Cranking Advance: 10
Maximum Dwell: ?
Maximum Spark Duration: ?
Trigger wheel arrangement: Single Wheel with Missing Tooth
Trigger wheel teeth: 36
Missing teeth: 1
Tooth #1 angle: 0
Wheel speed: Crank Wheel
Second trigger active on
and every rotation of: Rising Edge
Some of these settings are also different than what Im using in my tune.
A big one that stands out is that you are setup for waste spark, and mine is setup for single coil.
Also your Tooth 1 angle is at 0, and mine is a 37. Tooth 1 angle is how you set your base ignition timing, so having that at zero would cause some issues. I think that working from my tune map will help you clear up some of these settings.
Also for the cam signal, we have G1 and G2. You can use either one. For my distributor, I had trouble getting a signal from G1 so I switched to G2. Switching these might also affect your tooth 1 angle. The angle I posted is what I'm using on G2.
Posted by: mkernz22 Dec 9, 2015 - 5:38 PM
Trigger Angle: 4.00
Main/Return: 50.0
Odd fire Angle: 90
GM HEI/DIS: Off
Use Cam Signal: On
Ignition Input Capture: Falling Edge
Spark Output: Going High
Number of Coils: Wasted Spark
Dwell type: Standard Dwell
Cranking Dwell: 7.5
Cranking Advance: 10
Maximum Dwell: ?
Maximum Spark Duration: ?
Trigger wheel arrangement: Single Wheel with Missing Tooth
Trigger wheel teeth: 36
Missing teeth: 1
Tooth #1 angle: 0
Wheel speed: Crank Wheel
Second trigger active on
and every rotation of: Rising Edge
Some of these settings are also different than what Im using in my tune.
A big one that stands out is that you are setup for waste spark, and mine is setup for single coil.
Also your Tooth 1 angle is at 0, and mine is a 37. Tooth 1 angle is how you set your base ignition timing, so having that at zero would cause some issues. I think that working from my tune map will help you clear up some of these settings.
Also for the cam signal, we have G1 and G2. You can use either one. For my distributor, I had trouble getting a signal from G1 so I switched to G2. Switching these might also affect your tooth 1 angle. The angle I posted is what I'm using on G2.
Yeah, we don't have a wasted spark setup on the 3sgte.
One engine I can think of that does run that is the 1mzfe on certain years of the engine.
Basically, there's one coil for each cylinder on the front bank, which then has a wire running to a corresponding cylinder on the rear bank.
Posted by: lagos Jan 29, 2016 - 12:49 PM
Any progress on this project?
Posted by: lagos Jan 29, 2016 - 1:18 PM
Also, I just found a very cool time lapse video of someone building a DIYPNP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9OTCb-aS5k
Posted by: HardHead93 Feb 7, 2016 - 6:48 PM
I had some problems with the oil feed line to the turbo so I had to fix that. Now I am back on working with the diypnp. I can get the car to start but I cannot keep it idling without putting my foot on the gas. What exactly am I supposed to see on the high speed logger because the RPM signal is all over the place?
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 6, 2016 - 11:26 AM
Got the DIYPNP running exactly like I want it to but I am still having trouble figuring out the AC idle up. I have been working with the guys over at DIYAutoTune and I am still having problems. I took voltage measurements off the AC pinouts on the ECU and came up with the following:
With the A/C off:
AC1: 0.15V
ACT: 0.15V
ATS: 0.00V
With the A/C on:
AC1: 0.29V
ACT: 5.55V
ATS: 0.00V
The zero voltage on the ATS pin make sense because when I looked at the factory harness there was no wire connected to it.
The guys at at DIYAutoTune told me to do the following:
"Try wiring ACT to the nitrous input IN and the OUT to an unused input (FLEX or PE1), and use this for A/C idle up."
When I did that the AC compressor clutch would not kick on. I really want to figure this out because when I run the AC the additional load causes the car to sometimes stall at idle. Any ideas?
Posted by: lagos Aug 9, 2016 - 1:21 PM
Glad you were able to get the unit working!
Here is what I did for AC idle up.
I disconnected all AC1, ACT, ATS connections. With nothing hooked up to the ecu, the ac compressor would come on just fine.
Next, I looked at the vehicle wiring diagram to determine the wire that ground switches the ac compressor relay in the passengers side fuse box.
I cut that wire and ran the ground signal into the Flex pin. Then I connected the PA0 output to control the ac relay.
I believe the in order to use the PA0 output, you have to run it into the in port of relay1,relay2 or relay3 of the DIYPNP circuit board. Just double check this in the assembly documentation.
Does the car stall at idle or deceleration?
Posted by: lagos Aug 9, 2016 - 1:44 PM
AC1: 0.29V
ACT: 5.55V
ATS: 0.00V
You can also try sending 5v to AC1 to see if the compressor comes on.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 9, 2016 - 11:06 PM
Here is what I did for AC idle up.
I disconnected all AC1, ACT, ATS connections. With nothing hooked up to the ecu, the ac compressor would come on just fine.
Next, I looked at the vehicle wiring diagram to determine the wire that ground switches the ac compressor relay in the passengers side fuse box.
I cut that wire and ran the ground signal into the Flex pin. Then I connected the PA0 output to control the ac relay.
I believe the in order to use the PA0 output, you have to run it into the in port of relay1,relay2 or relay3 of the DIYPNP circuit board. Just double check this in the assembly documentation.
Does the car stall at idle or deceleration?
Yes, when the AC is on the moment I push the clutch in the car stalls. I sent an e-mail to DIYAutoTune and got the following response back:
"It looks like the magnetic clutch is triggered by the "MCG" pin on the ECU. You'll want to configure the DIYPNP to use an on/off output on that pin, set as the "A/C idle up output" pin."
The only other AC pin on the ECU for my car is the AC1. Is that the AC idle up signal? The ACT is used for cutting the AC when the car is under high load which explains why the AC stops working when I connect to that pinout.
AC1: 0.29V
ACT: 5.55V
ATS: 0.00V
You can also try sending 5v to AC1 to see if the compressor comes on.
Do you mean wire the PAO to the AC1 pinout and set TunerStudio for 5V signal?
Posted by: lagos Aug 10, 2016 - 1:08 PM
When driving or when the car is at idle?
I don't think there is an MCG pin on the ecu?
Yes but in order to use PA0 for anything, you need to run it through a transistor first (one of the relays on the circuit board).
See the programable on/off section here:
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/hardware/diypnp/documentation/diypnp-v1-5/extra-inputs-and-outputs/#Programmable_On/Off_Outputs_
I would also check this functionality with a multimeter to make sure that it changes to a voltage switching circuit.
Remember that if all of this fails, you can just intercept the ground switching wire that goes to the AC relay like I did.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 10, 2016 - 2:18 PM
When driving or when the car is at idle?
I don't think there is an MCG pin on the ecu?
Yes but in order to use PA0 for anything, you need to run it through a transistor first (one of the relays on the circuit board).
See the programable on/off section here:
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/hardware/diypnp/documentation/diypnp-v1-5/extra-inputs-and-outputs/#Programmable_On/Off_Outputs_
I would also check this functionality with a multimeter to make sure that it changes to a voltage switching circuit.
Remember that if all of this fails, you can just intercept the ground switching wire that goes to the AC relay like I did.
The car stalls when I take the load off the engine for too long, so yes it happens when I idle or if I chose to coast not in gear. This only happens when I have the AC running. If I blip the throttle before the RPMs get to low I can sometimes stop the car from stalling and it will catch itself and continue to idle, although the idle is really weak.
Posted by: lagos Aug 10, 2016 - 4:55 PM
Send me your MSQ file. lagos3sgte@gmail.com
AC idle up helps the engine get a smoother transition when the ac comes on, but its not always what is responsible for stalling issues like that.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 11, 2016 - 9:03 PM
AC idle up helps the engine get a smoother transition when the ac comes on, but its not always what is responsible for stalling issues like that.
I just installed some WebCams in the engine, I will send you the file once I do a couple pulls this weekend with the new camshafts and get AutoTune to adjust the fuel table.
Posted by: lagos Aug 11, 2016 - 11:35 PM
AC idle up helps the engine get a smoother transition when the ac comes on, but its not always what is responsible for stalling issues like that.
I just installed some WebCams in the engine, I will send you the file once I do a couple pulls this weekend with the new camshafts and get AutoTune to adjust the fuel table.
Your stalling is probably cause by an overrun fuel cut setting or some oddness in your fuel table, hence why I asked for the file. The WOT pulls don't matter for this.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 15, 2016 - 10:46 PM
I sent you my tune file over the weekend. Have you had a chance to take a look at it? I can already see my overrun fuel cut settings are off. I am trying to get a basic tune together to make the car safe. I plan to take the car to Phoenix, AZ to get a good dyno tune (not many good tuners around here). I have a couple of other questions:
1. I used the Megasquirt online tool to set up my timing map. Do you know how to get a copy of the stock 5sfe ECU ignition timing map? Any tips when adjusting the ignition timing map?
2. How do you set up the knock sensor?
Posted by: lagos Aug 16, 2016 - 3:17 PM
I updated your tune file with some new settings and emailed it back to you. I have a few comments.
1. What injectors are you using? Are they 460cc rx7 red injectors? If so, I believe those are commonly used in Miats and the correct dead time (lag time) might be around 1.2. You might want to google search to see if you can find an exact value.
2. Injector battery voltage correction:
After you input the correct dead time and tune the fuel map in the idle cells to 14.7, disconnect the oval plug from your alternator while the car is running. Then watch the ego correction gauge and adjust that battery correction factor so that your idle is still 14.7 with zero ego correction at about 11-12v. The value I used for my car works well for me, but it might be different on your car due to having different injectors.
3. In the overrun fuel cut I originally had some settings that would cause the car to stall when driving with AC on. I adjusted the settings to the new values in your tune.
4. in the Ignition Options menu there is a setting for Hardware Spark Latency. You need to tune this specifically to your car. Set the ignition timing to FIXED timing @ 15 degress. Use a timing light to set your base timing. Then while still in that mode, rev the engine up and hold the rpm while watching the timing light. If your timing drifts down from 15 degress, adjust the hardware spark latency until it is steady through the rev range. On my car I found a value of about 190 worked well, however your car might not need this setting and having 190 in that field could potentially cause your engine to run too much timing advance.
5. I loaded up the 3sgte base Ignition map into your tune and took out a few degrees due to it being a high compression motor. The map should work okay on the 5sfe, but you should really have this tuned on a load bearing dyno (not a basic Dynojet). I have never seen a 5sfe timing map so its all just guess work.
6. I use a J&S Safeguard for knock detection because the built in knock control is not that great on the diypnp. However someone on mr2oc posted about the settings that he used when setting his up.
7. As you know, you really need to tune the VE table using the autotune feature in Tunerstudio. The values that you have in there right now are far from correct and will cause all kinds of stalling issues as the engine lacks fuel in certain cells where it comes back down to idle.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 19, 2016 - 10:42 AM
1. What injectors are you using? Are they 460cc rx7 red injectors? If so, I believe those are commonly used in Miats and the correct dead time (lag time) might be around 1.2. You might want to google search to see if you can find an exact value.
2. Injector battery voltage correction:
After you input the correct dead time and tune the fuel map in the idle cells to 14.7, disconnect the oval plug from your alternator while the car is running. Then watch the ego correction gauge and adjust that battery correction factor so that your idle is still 14.7 with zero ego correction at about 11-12v. The value I used for my car works well for me, but it might be different on your car due to having different injectors.
3. In the overrun fuel cut I originally had some settings that would cause the car to stall when driving with AC on. I adjusted the settings to the new values in your tune.
4. in the Ignition Options menu there is a setting for Hardware Spark Latency. You need to tune this specifically to your car. Set the ignition timing to FIXED timing @ 15 degress. Use a timing light to set your base timing. Then while still in that mode, rev the engine up and hold the rpm while watching the timing light. If your timing drifts down from 15 degress, adjust the hardware spark latency until it is steady through the rev range. On my car I found a value of about 190 worked well, however your car might not need this setting and having 190 in that field could potentially cause your engine to run too much timing advance.
5. I loaded up the 3sgte base Ignition map into your tune and took out a few degrees due to it being a high compression motor. The map should work okay on the 5sfe, but you should really have this tuned on a load bearing dyno (not a basic Dynojet). I have never seen a 5sfe timing map so its all just guess work.
6. I use a J&S Safeguard for knock detection because the built in knock control is not that great on the diypnp. However someone on mr2oc posted about the settings that he used when setting his up.
7. As you know, you really need to tune the VE table using the autotune feature in Tunerstudio. The values that you have in there right now are far from correct and will cause all kinds of stalling issues as the engine lacks fuel in certain cells where it comes back down to idle.
Thanks for all the help! I went and found the injector dead time for the 460cc RX7 injectors that I am using and got the following values:
1.185 @ 14.4V or 1.2 @13.4V
I enriched a couple of cells around the idle and plan to do the autotune and adjust any timing drift this weekend. As for setting up the stock knock sensor, DIYAUTOTUNE provided me with the following information:
There's not much adjustment here - you'll just want to adjust the sensitivity trim pot to the point where it JUST won't pick up knock on a safe tune.
For settings in TunerStudio, see this link.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasquirt2_TunerStudio_MS_Lite_Reference-3.4.pdf/Megasquirt2_TunerStudio_MS_Lite_Reference-3.4-110.html
Posted by: lagos Aug 19, 2016 - 11:40 AM
Awesome!
So use 1.2 but ALSO make sure to check the battery voltage correction by disconnecting the oval plug on the alternator as I described.
Its super critical to do this before trying to tune the VE table because if those settings are not correct, you will have all kinds of fueling issues when humidity or temperature changes.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 19, 2016 - 9:46 PM
Awesome!
So use 1.2 but ALSO make sure to check the battery voltage correction by disconnecting the oval plug on the alternator as I described.
Its super critical to do this before trying to tune the VE table because if those settings are not correct, you will have all kinds of fueling issues when humidity or temperature changes.
So I went through and tried to tune my idle to 14.5 - 14.7 AFR and the car kept on dying out. It would hunt around the fuel and ignition table for a while before finally just sputtering out. I did some research and found when the idle isn't steady it is most likely an ignition timing issue. I went to a fixed timing of 10 degrees BTDC the car idled better but still was giving me trouble so I started adding fuel until the the idle was strong and that was at 13.2 AFR. The timing table you had set up for me had the cells for idle set to 19 BTDC. I remember when I took some logs of the car when I had the AEM piggyback and stock ECU kept the timing at 8-10 BTDC at idle. Also, I remember reading somewhere that the 5sfe likes to run a little rich especially at idle. I used the Megasquirt timing table estimator along with you table and created a hybrid of the two that would give me a good idle but some good timing for boost as well. Problem solved. I then worked on the voltage correction and got the EGO correction gauge to stay at 100%. Tomorrow I will ensure that timing does not float when I am on the throttle and then start auto tuning the rest of the fuel table.
Posted by: lagos Aug 21, 2016 - 4:23 PM
Keep the same afr target table. The car should idle just fine at 14.7 AFR. Here are a few things to try to fix this.
1. turn off ego correction. Sometimes if the values in the PID section are not correct, it will cause oscillation. Turn it off to see if its causing the problem.
2. turn off closed loop idle. The PID values might be wrong, or you need to set up the initial idle values table to work better with your setup.
3. The timing table might be at 19 degrees, but the actual value the car idles at comes from Idle Adaptive Advance. Try changing that graph to a single value like 15 degrees.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 21, 2016 - 6:55 PM
1. turn off ego correction. Sometimes if the values in the PID section are not correct, it will cause oscillation. Turn it off to see if its causing the problem.
2. turn off closed loop idle. The PID values might be wrong, or you need to set up the initial idle values table to work better with your setup.
3. The timing table might be at 19 degrees, but the actual value the car idles at comes from Idle Adaptive Advance. Try changing that graph to a single value like 15 degrees.
You were right! I turned off EGO correction, set to open loop (warm up) idle, and changed the Idle Adaptive Advance table. The Idle Adaptive Advance table was set to 20 degrees, no wonder I was having problems. I played with it and the fuel table. Now the idle is steady at 12-13 degrees (checked with a timing light) with an AFR between 14.5 and 14.7. I also re-entered the 3sgte table you gave me with the timing taken out up top.
Posted by: lagos Aug 23, 2016 - 10:12 AM
Awesome !
Keep in mind that you're going to want to re-enable things like ego correction and closed loop idle, but you should do them one by one until you get settings that don't oscillate. I would start out with tuning closed loop idle. You can use the test mode for the idle control valve to find some basic values to enter into your initial target table for the current temperature. Then if you have any oscillation, you will have to adjust the Proportional Integral and Derivative terms. EGO also uses PID for closed loop. Its not a bad idea to look up some videos to learn more about PID tuning on youtube.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 29, 2016 - 10:14 AM
When driving or when the car is at idle?
I don't think there is an MCG pin on the ecu?
Yes but in order to use PA0 for anything, you need to run it through a transistor first (one of the relays on the circuit board).
See the programable on/off section here:
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/hardware/diypnp/documentation/diypnp-v1-5/extra-inputs-and-outputs/#Programmable_On/Off_Outputs_
I would also check this functionality with a multimeter to make sure that it changes to a voltage switching circuit.
Remember that if all of this fails, you can just intercept the ground switching wire that goes to the AC relay like I did.
I tried to use the AC1 pinout on the ECU for idle up and it did not work. I am going to have to wire the idle up the way you did. Do you remember where the ground switching wire is under the hood? Is it close to the relay box where the fan relays and AC clutch relay is?
Posted by: lagos Aug 29, 2016 - 11:04 PM
Yup, the wire goes directly to that relay box to switch the AC relay.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 30, 2016 - 12:19 PM
Here is what I did for AC idle up.
I disconnected all AC1, ACT, ATS connections. With nothing hooked up to the ecu, the ac compressor would come on just fine.
Next, I looked at the vehicle wiring diagram to determine the wire that ground switches the ac compressor relay in the passengers side fuse box.
I cut that wire and ran the ground signal into the Flex pin. Then I connected the PA0 output to control the ac relay.
I believe the in order to use the PA0 output, you have to run it into the in port of relay1,relay2 or relay3 of the DIYPNP circuit board. Just double check this in the assembly documentation.
Does the car stall at idle or deceleration?
I am a little confused with this statement. Is the wire to cut the one that goes to the MGC pin on the AC amplifier or the one that goes to the AC magnetic clutch? Then when I cut the ground wire going to the AC relay in the fuse box under the hood. I connect the ground side of the cut wire to the flex pin on the DIYPNP. Then I connect the relay side of the cut wire to the PAO using one of the relays on the DIYPNP board. Set the PAO to output and the flex to input in TunerStudio under the AC idle up settings. Is that correct? Do I need to run the flex connection through one of the board relays?
Posted by: lagos Aug 31, 2016 - 10:51 AM
Here is the basic idea:
1. Don't connect any of the AC related functions that exist on the OEM ECU to Megasquirt and verify that the AC works just fine without them (with the exception of the idle up functionality).
2. Find the wire that sends the ground switching control signal to the AC relay located in the engine bay on the passengers side of the car. You want to cut this wire and have Megasquirt intercept this signal.
3. Once you have the wire cut, connect the signal side of the wire directly to the Flex input. No need to run this through any MS relays.
4. Connect the PA0 pin to Relay1 IN on Megasquirt, and connect Relay1 OUT directly to the AC relay in the fuse box.
In this configuration Megasquirt will see that the factory ac amp wants to turn on the AC and will delay this signal by a few seconds so that it can idle the engine up first to create a smooth transition. I will take a look at my wiring book and let you know the color of the wire that goes to the AC relay.
Posted by: HardHead93 Aug 31, 2016 - 10:00 PM
1. Don't connect any of the AC related functions that exist on the OEM ECU to Megasquirt and verify that the AC works just fine without them (with the exception of the idle up functionality).
2. Find the wire that sends the ground switching control signal to the AC relay located in the engine bay on the passengers side of the car. You want to cut this wire and have Megasquirt intercept this signal.
3. Once you have the wire cut, connect the signal side of the wire directly to the Flex input. No need to run this through any MS relays.
4. Connect the PA0 pin to Relay1 IN on Megasquirt, and connect Relay1 OUT directly to the AC relay in the fuse box.
In this configuration Megasquirt will see that the factory ac amp wants to turn on the AC and will delay this signal by a few seconds so that it can idle the engine up first to create a smooth transition. I will take a look at my wiring book and let you know the color of the wire that goes to the AC relay.
Is this the wire that needs to be cut? I have it circled in red. It looks like it goes to the MGC pin on the AC amplifier.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/AC%20Idle%20Up%201_zpsyrwtae0r.jpg.html
Posted by: HardHead93 Sep 2, 2016 - 5:03 PM
I did some researching and figured out how to get the idle up to working by using the AC1 pinout on the ECU! 
I did the following.
1. Connected the PAO to the RELAY1 IN on the Megasquirt and the RELAY1 OUT to the engine ground.
2. Connected the FLEX on the Megasquirt to the AC1 pinout.
3. In Tunerstudio in the Air Conditioning Idle Up screen I set the output to PAO, the input to FLEX, and the Idle-Up Input polarity to Low.
That was it, every time I turn on the AC within a few seconds the DIYPNP recognizes the AC compressor is on and idles up the engine. I was going to tap into the AC Relay like Lagos said but that would defeat the purpose of me chosing the Megasquirt. My goal is to cut into the factory wiring as little as possible to avoid causing some damage I could not repair. So far the only wire I had to cut for the Megaquirt was the intake air temp sensor harness to add a GM sensor. I figured if the stock ECU can idle up with the AC1 input then so can the Megasquirt. Lagos, thanks for all the help in figuring out this ECU. I would not have been able to track this problem down without your help.
Another problem I am recognizing is that the DIYPNP is very limited on additional features remaining if you go with the sequential injection mod. If I want to use a boost controller, I am out of ports for that function. The PAO, PT6, and PT7 are the only ports that can use a boost controller. When you go sequential injection, PT6 and PT7 taken to control the injectors and if you attempt to use them Tunerstudio will give you a config error. With me using the PAO for the AC idle up, I have nothing left to run a boost controller unless I switch back to batch fire injection and reclaim the PT6 and PT7 ports for use. Are there any other options?
Posted by: lagos Sep 3, 2016 - 9:05 AM
Just to clear up the original question, yes that is the same wire that I intercepted for the ac relay. When I did my modification, I used some nice insulated bullet connectors so that I could easily reconnect the factory wiring if needed.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Premium-Fully-Insulated-Nylon-Bullet-Connectors-Wire-Terminals-22-18-GA-Mate-/381633875213?hash=item58db26cd0d:g:KFMAAOxyTjNShyND
So you're getting an input signal from AC1, but your output is simply going to ground? This will idle the engine up since MS has an input that tells it the AC wants to turn on, but it doesn't sound like it will allow MS to delay the AC compressor from turning on. What you want is for MS to get a signal that requests the AC to come on, idle the engine up and then turn the AC compressor on after about 700ms. This will create a smooth transition as the AC cycles on and off. Right now it sounds like your idle up and compressor are turning on at the same exact time.
You are 100% right that the DIYPNP is a bit limited on outputs, especially when using sequential injection. You can however use WLED and ALED if they are not being used for anything important. On my setup I have ALED setup to simply turn on the CEL light when the key in ON but engine is not running. I could use that output for boost control if I wanted to.
Posted by: HardHead93 Sep 5, 2016 - 11:16 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Premium-Fully-Insulated-Nylon-Bullet-Connectors-Wire-Terminals-22-18-GA-Mate-/381633875213?hash=item58db26cd0d:g:KFMAAOxyTjNShyND
So you're getting an input signal from AC1, but your output is simply going to ground? This will idle the engine up since MS has an input that tells it the AC wants to turn on, but it doesn't sound like it will allow MS to delay the AC compressor from turning on. What you want is for MS to get a signal that requests the AC to come on, idle the engine up and then turn the AC compressor on after about 700ms. This will create a smooth transition as the AC cycles on and off. Right now it sounds like your idle up and compressor are turning on at the same exact time.
You are 100% right that the DIYPNP is a bit limited on outputs, especially when using sequential injection. You can however use WLED and ALED if they are not being used for anything important. On my setup I have ALED setup to simply turn on the CEL light when the key in ON but engine is not running. I could use that output for boost control if I wanted to.
I thought the WLED and ALED pins could only be used for on/off type of functions. If that is the case can I use them for the AC idle up and save the PAO for boost control? Will I need to run the WLED or ALED through a relay circuit? In the drawing from my previous post, I circled part of it, was that the correct AC relay wire you tapped into? Again, thanks so much for the help! I am not sure how I would have gotten this DIYPNP to work without your advice.
Posted by: lagos Sep 5, 2016 - 11:41 PM
I'm not 100% sure if they could be used for PWM control, but you could use them for the AC like you said and use PA0 for boost. I don't think they need the relay circuit and can drive an automotive relay directly. Just make sure they supply a ground signal. You can command them to turn on in the Test I/O menu of Tuner Studio to ensure correct functionality.
Yes that is the correct wire the the AC relay.
Posted by: HardHead93 Jul 27, 2017 - 11:43 AM
This thread is going to change gears and deal with my 3sgte swap on the same vehicle. Now that I have fixed all the issues I had with the car and the 3sgte 4th gen swap it is now time to work on getting my standalone ECU installed. Luckily I kept my DIYPNP 76pin from my 5sfte build. The problem is that it is a 76 pin which is different from the 4th gen 3sgte. DIYAUTOTUNE sells a 122 pin kit that converts it to the proper pin out. I installed the new pin out mod and soldered the wiring to it.
https://postimg.org/image/4j4e5hjkt/
https://postimg.org/image/6oyozzn19/
Now I am ready to drop it in the car.
Please see the following thread if you want to see how I did my build:
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=96700
Posted by: HardHead93 Sep 3, 2017 - 3:12 PM
After messing with the DIYPNP for the 4th gen 3sgte I found it was going to be a downgrade using it. Since the motor is sequential injection and COP ignition, I was using all my outputs just to work those basic features. I was going to lose all my idle up capabilities and would not have anything left for any expansion down the road. The DIYPNP is great for a batch injection and distributor setup of the 5s but as the motor becomes more complex the ECU loses the ability for the extra fun stuff.
After talking with the people at DIYAUTOTUNE, I decided to pull the trigger on a MS3pro EVO. This will give me all the basic functions I need plus the ability to add extra sensors, performance mods, and safety features. I plan to start with their base 3sgte tune and go from there. The final goal will be to get it running well with the Auto Tuning features. That should yield me a safe tune. Then I will take it to a tuner to get the fine ignition timing tuning done. The great thing is since I will be building this as a plug and play unit I will have the ability to go back to the stock ECU if I want to move the ms3 to another vehicle.
My car put down 238 horsepower and 233 torque on the dyno at 15 psi. That is with aftermarket camshafts and a stock ECU. With my stage 1 BC camshafts and a good tune I am going to shoot for 280 horsepower.
I will be starting a new thread to document this work because this is no longer dealing with the DIYPNP ECU.
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