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6G Celicas Forums _ Suspension/Handling/Braking _ The GT-Four Brake Upgrade

Posted by: Tigawoods Jul 24, 2013 - 11:17 AM

This is a GUIDE not a HOW TO and is a thread in progress. Its going to take me a bit to properly organize this load info into a visually pleasing manor.

If anyone has any input from their own experience post or PM me and I will add the info in! There is alot of info in here and I am sure it will get very convoluted



**Be aware that the ST205 Brake upgrade will require at least a 16" wheels and possibly spacers to adjust the offset and avoid contact between the face of the caliper and the backside of the rim face. **



Torque Specs
Caliper halve bolts (four bolts that hold the caliper halves together)
14-17 ft/lbs *Have an even torque value on each bolt (add a dab of red loctite to the bolts thread ends)

Caliper Seal Part Numbers:

Stephen at GT-FourPlay UK sells a rebuild kit. You can still get the kit lsited below from rock auto but Stephens kit is alot more straight forward and youd be supporting Local (UK) business!
https://www.gt4-play.co.uk/shop/brake-caliper-service-kit?___SID=U

Caliper Re-seal Kits (Centric Brand From Rock Auto)
Front Seals X4 #14344031 (kits are used for the small crossover seals for all 4 calipers/the piston seals in this kit are too large so the rest is unused)
Rear Seals X2 #14342021 (Each Single kit services 2 calipers. These piston seals are used for the front too)
(I need to re-confirm that the rear piston seals fit the front pistons)
This will cover the crossover seals/piston seals/piston boots/piston retaining rings

Caliper Hardware Part Numbers
(Need to add the Pad Pin retaining wire #'s & toyota diagram)

Front pin clips: #04947-14010
Front pad pins: #90240-06019
Front shims: #04945-14110 (EBC pads come with stick on shims)

Rear pin clips: #04948-14010
Rear pad pins: #90240-06017
Rear shims: #04946-14030 (EBC pads come with stick on shims)




Front Hub/Caliper Preparation:
(These part#'s correspond to the McMaster-Carr Catalog. I highly recommend ordering hardware from them: www.mcmaster.com as they have VERY fast shipping and exceptional products)

Caliper Prep:
For the rotor to sit center in the caliper, the mounting tabs on the caliper will need to be shaved a slight bit.
Use a DREMEL and shave 7-8mm off of the mounting tabs. START OFF SMALL and shave say 5mm and check clearances, it is quite possible that with whatever spec rotor you use or just slight differences in hub thicknesses may not require a 7-8mm shave

(keep in mind that if you plan on powdercoating the calipers, that will add 1mm or so on top of the mounting tabs, unless you leave them uncoated.)

Use a Micrometer to make sure that the mounting tab is an even #mm across the entire area you shaved.





Hub Prep:
_____________________________________________

The stock hubs are thread-less and will need to be threaded. Below are the specs I prepped my hubs to but also a small description of what Culpable did with his hub. The way I did it requires a bit more drilling, and it is possible to just re-tap the thread-less hub holes rather than drill them out and re-tap. If you drill the hubs you will possibly need to drill out the caliper holes to match. The tap information is listed below.


CULPABLES THREAD (link at bottom of this post):
take the knuckle off the car and thread tap them thread taps are available anywhere, buy matching bolts for the thread you are tapping ( grade 8 bolts please ) use a 1/2 x 20 tap or finer thread. ( the one used on the pictures is 9/16 x 20 but no need to go that big as that will require to drill the hole to make it a little bigger)

______________________________________________

Carbon Steel Hand Tap, 9/16"-18, 4 Flute (I will add the kind of tap wrench that is best for tapping the hubs)
#26035A216


Drill for Tap
33/64
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/2432/=oglxb8
8947A217 - 118 Degree Point High-Speed-Steel Short-Length Drill Bit, Black Oxide, 33/64", 3-7/8" Length Overall - $18.92
(CALIPER HOLES WILL ALSO NEED TO BE RE-DRILLED IF USING THIS SIZE, MAKE SURE TO DRILL TO MATCH THE DIAMETER OF THE BOLT YOU ARE USING TO MOUNT THE CALIPERS, THIS DRILL BIT WILL BE TOO SMALL)

Grade 8 Alloy Steel Hex Head Cap Screw, Zinc Yellow Pltd,9/16"-18 Thrd, 1-1/4"l,fully Thrd
#92620A779


(Large washers are used in between the Front Caliper bolts and Hub and one washer has to be trimmed per axle, I will add their sizes later)

The Brake dust shield will fit and no modification is needed other than pushing it back a bit to avoid contact with the rotor (WITH 300mm Rotor).


Rear Hub Preparation:

I was fortunate enough to get the oem caliper bolts with the calipers in the kit from Culpable. I will get their specs since those are the bolts you will need to mount the caliper, the oem ST204 bolts are too short.

The rear dust shield will need a good amount of trimming (use a small dremel) for the caliper to fit. Its hard to really explain where it will need to be cut exactly, but just hold up the ST205 caliper to its mounting mount and you will be able to judge where it will make contact with the dust shield. Both around the top and bottom mount holes on the hubs will need to be trimmed. (If you plan on powdercoating your calipers make sure to do this before, I scratched my newly powder coated calipers holding them up trying to judge how much more I needed to trim)

When mounting the Rear Calipers, there needs to be a 6mm spacer washer between the caliper holes and mounting bracket.
This will correct and center the caliper to match the lower rotor height of the ST205 disk (The ST205 disk is 6mm smaller than the GT disk). As a temporary solution I used 2 washers (2.5mm thick) per hole that when stacked added up to about 6mm. Washers usually have a thickness tolerance of +/- .3mm so I had to sort through a whole bunch to finally find a combination that added up to the right spec. Anywhere between 5-6mm will work fine but the closer to 6mm the better

The better solution, as discussed with ricochet1490, would be to get a custom made 6mm thick washer.

McMaster sells extra thick high strength steel washers, I am ordering a few to test them out, supposedly the thicknesses of the washers arent consistent but we will see



Rotors:

OEM Celica Dimension Specs


Front:

Be aware of the hub diameters. The OE Celia hub diameter is 54.1. Most of our options for the front will be larger than that.
I personally like to have hubcentric rotors but you can run them lug centric if you dont feel like making a shim, I would advise against that though.


Subaru BRZ/Impreza Rotor
Part Number: Centric 121.47021
PCB - 5x100
Hub Dia - 58
Dia - 292mm
Centric Brand Part Number: 121.47021


(additional info on aftermarket solutions will be added soon thanks playr158 for the find!)

93-99 Toyota Supra NON-Turbo
PCB - 5x114.3 (Must Be Re-Drilled)
Hub Dia-60.1
Dia-296mm / 11.811"


****Most OEM and OEM replacement Supra Non-Turbo rotors have service holes on the face of the hat preventing them from being re-drilled to 5x100, Most aftermarket 2-Piece Rotors do not have these service holes allowing the hats to be re-drilled. Always check before purchasing. THIS MAY NO LONGER BE A VIABLE OPTION****




5x114.3 Conversion Front Rotors
93-99 Toyota Supra NON-Turbo
Supra Hub Dia-60.1
Dia-296mm / 11.811"

Rear:

ST205 Rear Rotors
Hub Dia-54.1
Dia-315mm

I highly recommend EBC Brand through this site
http://www.ebcbrakesdirect.com/ (Fast Int'l Shipping with Tracking code!)
Here you have the option of OEM/SlottedDimpled/Slotted

ENDLESS also makes a Slotted and Blank Rear Disk
Blank Rotor (Single) $176
Slotted Rotor (Single) $225
http://endless-sport.co.jp/brake_rotor/PDF/RotorMatching_toyota.pdf

5x114.3 Conversion Rear Rotor
***TBD****

Brake Pads:

Supra MK4 Turbo Pads
I recommend EBC brand pads as they come with black 3M rubberized stick on shims. Do Not use both the stick on rubber shim and the metal Toyota/Other brand shim.
Part#
Front
DP31004C
Rear
DP31005C

Some other brands that have both streetable performance and race performance pads that will fit are

-HAWK Pads
-Carbotech Pads
-Endless Pads


I have only ever used EBC pads so I have never needed Shims from Toyota. I am not sure if other brand pads come with some sort of shim. If they don't you will need to order a set of shims

3M Stick on Shims




Brake Lines:

ST205 Lines

ST204 (GT) Lines

Custom Lines (recommended)


Bleeder Fittings

Speed Bleeder #SB1010
Buy them. They work wonders


Caliper High Temp CELICA Stickers
http://www.ebay.com/usr/uber9
Since the sale is re-listed weekly I cannot provide a direct link. Sreach for "celica" and the results will show up. Be sure to message the seller to specify it is for the ST205 Calipers


Brake Bias Controller
One thing that will be immediately apparent with this swap is a different brake bias than what the GT/ST provided.
The bias wont be the same for every car this swap is done for. There are alot of factors that will effect the ration ever so slightly. Worst case scenario your rear bias will be too much to the point of locking up way before the fronts get a chance too. For DD emergency situations, this may be undesirable.
Combat this will installing a Brake BIAS Controller.
I recommend Tilton as the brand to buy but there are other more budget friendly brands.



Brake Proportioning Info
http://stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/proportioning-valves

Additional Links/Reference Links:
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=69379
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67786
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=74140
http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/specs.htm


End Goal?

Posted by: yellowchinaman Jul 24, 2013 - 1:36 PM

That is really useful.
Im doodling on the idea of adapting a set of Audi Q7 Sline calipers to my faff.

Posted by: playr158 Jul 24, 2013 - 2:12 PM

Thanks TIGA. I was going to do the same with the information you gave me.
I'll probably photograph the whole thing to add to this thread.

Since the supra rotors are 5x114 I'm also thinking about doing the complete 5.x114 hub conversion at the same time..


agian thanks for putting this together!

Posted by: njccmd2002 Jul 24, 2013 - 3:37 PM

but then you have to redrill the gt4 rears... u have to redrill some rotors...

Posted by: playr158 Jul 24, 2013 - 7:48 PM

I believe there might be some bolt on rotors but need to see

Posted by: Fate Jul 24, 2013 - 9:28 PM

*subscribed.


Posted by: Tigawoods Jul 25, 2013 - 8:09 AM

QUOTE (playr158 @ Jul 24, 2013 - 3:12 PM) *
Thanks TIGA. I was going to do the same with the information you gave me.
I'll probably photograph the whole thing to add to this thread.

Thatd be helpful. I did not take a single picture of anything when I was going through it

QUOTE (playr158 @ Jul 24, 2013 - 8:48 PM) *
I believe there might be some bolt on rotors but need to see

There are definitely some out there, itd be nice to get a list. And it would be great if they where the right size specs and 5x100! If not then at least we would have some alternatives to the Supra rotors since as noberto found out the hard way...they cant be redrilled, the OEM ones atleast

Posted by: playr158 Jul 25, 2013 - 10:29 AM

Well if we use

FRONT: GEN 1 RAV4 front hubs + MKIV NA Supra rotors + GT4 front calipers = bolt on

REAR: 91-96 Camry rear HUB/Bearing assembly + Camry rotors = bolt on.
The question is here is what larger rotor is needed for the rear GT4 caliper. I thought I had a potential option written down somewhere so now I have to go find it. This might honestly be as simple as contacting adams rotors and having them make a larger diameter rotor based off the camry oem rotor....which would be easy and cheap I thinks.




Posted by: njccmd2002 Jul 25, 2013 - 10:36 AM

well how big are the rear supra rotors?

Posted by: Tigawoods Jul 25, 2013 - 10:46 AM

300mm I believe

Posted by: njccmd2002 Jul 25, 2013 - 12:10 PM

duh, how thick are the rear supra rotors. thats what i meant sorry...


OH and for those of you that want to buy OEM supra rotors, dont, they have 10 holes.... (arg)


Posted by: Tigawoods Jul 25, 2013 - 12:22 PM

15mm methinks. Either that or 17mm

Posted by: Tigawoods Jul 31, 2013 - 8:00 PM

added a couple more things.

I will add the links on how to swap to 5x114 in the OP

Also maybe some tips as to how to remove the pistons from the calipers if you plan on powder coating and/or replacing the piston seals

Posted by: playr158 Sep 11, 2013 - 9:09 AM

Wanted to Toss this in there

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/2432/=oglxb8
8947A217 - 118 Degree Point High-Speed-Steel Short-Length Drill Bit, Black Oxide, 33/64", 3-7/8" Length Overall - $18.92

Posted by: Tigawoods Sep 11, 2013 - 2:32 PM

thanks man!

Posted by: njccmd2002 Nov 25, 2013 - 3:45 PM

Bringing this back from dead. Called adamsrotors, and the guy who was an asshole, pretty much told me not to wast his time all the questions are in his website. They don't do custom rotors, in a sense of different hub pattern, but in a sense of pretty colors and bs. Which leaves me stranded, here in this miserable town, nobody wants to do or even knows how to redrill rotors to 5x100. Lol.

Posted by: Fate Nov 25, 2013 - 5:38 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Nov 25, 2013 - 3:45 PM) *
Bringing this back from dead. Called adamsrotors, and the guy who was an asshole, pretty much told me not to wast his time all the questions are in his website. They don't do custom rotors, in a sense of different hub pattern, but in a sense of pretty colors and bs. Which leaves me stranded, here in this miserable town, nobody wants to do or even knows how to redrill rotors to 5x100. Lol.


Sounds very similar to my email conversation with him roughly 2 months ago.

I have a local place trimming my front st205 rotors to 300mm as my temporary solution for now. The same place I recently found out also does re-drills.

Posted by: Tigawoods Nov 25, 2013 - 7:35 PM

I will have to update the OP!

Posted by: njccmd2002 Nov 25, 2013 - 8:24 PM

we have to find a source of rotors that will meet our needs, so far, i have only seen racing rotors in the ups of 300+ per rotor, lol.

the problem i have, no one, absolutely no one wants to touch and redrill a rotor here. they are afraid.

Posted by: njccmd2002 Nov 25, 2013 - 9:00 PM

ok, classic example why i need to get my own tools, its stupid, in this town, no one wants to help. Jackson TN. How bad could it be, just need a jig, and a drill press. right?

ive got the jig already.


Posted by: playr158 Nov 25, 2013 - 9:53 PM

That's actually really smart......wheel spacer with proper bore and a drill press. Technically you could get away with a standard drill but press makes life way better.

I'll have a picture step by step of this conversion in about two weeks

Posted by: njccmd2002 Nov 25, 2013 - 10:07 PM

yeah man, im tired of trying to get someone to do this. i have been dying to have a reason to buy a drill press, and this might be it...

Posted by: njccmd2002 Nov 26, 2013 - 4:32 AM

just found this

subaru impreza sti

326 x 30 mm

hub 58

height 52.7

its 5 x 100. so its 2 mm shy of 32. but when we resurface gt4 rotors, thats prolly where they end up at...

Posted by: Fate Nov 26, 2013 - 9:37 AM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Nov 25, 2013 - 9:00 PM) *
ok, classic example why i need to get my own tools, its stupid, in this town, no one wants to help. Jackson TN. How bad could it be, just need a jig, and a drill press. right?

ive got the jig already.



i like!

Posted by: Tigawoods Nov 26, 2013 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE (playr158 @ Nov 25, 2013 - 9:53 PM) *
I'll have a picture step by step of this conversion in about two weeks

we can combine to make....the ULTIMATE conversion thread!

Posted by: njccmd2002 Nov 26, 2013 - 8:26 PM

Tiga, do you have a set of brake lines that already dont recommend. I know the slot is empty, i may start to look around, but wanted to see what u have tried.

I bought a wrx sti rotor today, for giggles. ill get it on the third. since no one here wants to redrill, i figure ill work my way with a bracket, if it even works, lol

Posted by: playr158 Nov 26, 2013 - 10:14 PM

326? isn't that too big for the GT4 setup?
I thought we were looking for 300mm?


I just got my Tap and drill bit today, standard from mcmastercarr is overnight for me biggrin.gif
Picking up everything else for my project at fastenal tomorrow am.




Posted by: njccmd2002 Nov 26, 2013 - 10:28 PM

yes i know, but it will be easier to get the rotor reduced in size than redrill to 5x100 in this damn town.

Posted by: Tigawoods Nov 27, 2013 - 8:20 AM

300mm MAX.

Let me throw that brake line info in, but ST205 lines will work if you can find them, or SS GT lines will fit (I used the rears in the front and the fronts in the rear since the fronts were getting close to stretching when at full lock, when switched they operate just fine)

Posted by: njccmd2002 Nov 27, 2013 - 11:16 AM

Cool, I'll keep looking for those lines. Once I get the rotor in ill post the experience, lol this is the fifth rotor. After 2 supras I can't drill and 2 gt4 I don't want to use spacers on.

Posted by: Trodai Nov 27, 2013 - 4:09 PM

QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Nov 27, 2013 - 8:20 AM) *
300mm MAX.

Let me throw that brake line info in, but ST205 lines will work if you can find them, or SS GT lines will fit (I used the rears in the front and the fronts in the rear since the fronts were getting close to stretching when at full lock, when switched they operate just fine)


302mm will work also that what i have on my car well its act slightly larger but 302mm works well in mine..(mine are reduced st205 discs) , I would be wary of the pads you choose to use also as some have the braking material located differently on the backing plate and this can have you braking surface of the pad coming out over the top of the disc. have you looked into Vw discs they easily available to you over there? some of those are 300mm, Subaru seem to be the most common for this conversion

I can post pictures of my conversion of the Gt-four brakes on the st202 hubs if you like?

Posted by: bnr32celica Nov 29, 2013 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Trodai @ Nov 27, 2013 - 4:09 PM) *
QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Nov 27, 2013 - 8:20 AM) *
300mm MAX.

Let me throw that brake line info in, but ST205 lines will work if you can find them, or SS GT lines will fit (I used the rears in the front and the fronts in the rear since the fronts were getting close to stretching when at full lock, when switched they operate just fine)


302mm will work also that what i have on my car well its act slightly larger but 302mm works well in mine..(mine are reduced st205 discs) , I would be wary of the pads you choose to use also as some have the braking material located differently on the backing plate and this can have you braking surface of the pad coming out over the top of the disc. have you looked into Vw discs they easily available to you over there? some of those are 300mm, Subaru seem to be the most common for this conversion

I can post pictures of my conversion of the Gt-four brakes on the st202 hubs if you like?


VW makes a disc that's 288mm or 312mm. More than likely, Subaru would be likely to have an 11.9" (300mm) rotor that would fit.

Posted by: Malek Nov 29, 2013 - 11:52 AM

QUOTE (Trodai @ Nov 27, 2013 - 5:09 PM) *
QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Nov 27, 2013 - 8:20 AM) *
300mm MAX.

Let me throw that brake line info in, but ST205 lines will work if you can find them, or SS GT lines will fit (I used the rears in the front and the fronts in the rear since the fronts were getting close to stretching when at full lock, when switched they operate just fine)


302mm will work also that what i have on my car well its act slightly larger but 302mm works well in mine..(mine are reduced st205 discs) , I would be wary of the pads you choose to use also as some have the braking material located differently on the backing plate and this can have you braking surface of the pad coming out over the top of the disc. have you looked into Vw discs they easily available to you over there? some of those are 300mm, Subaru seem to be the most common for this conversion

I can post pictures of my conversion of the Gt-four brakes on the st202 hubs if you like?


Yes, please post pics haha

What size disc spacers did you use for the front?

Posted by: Trodai Nov 29, 2013 - 6:31 PM

my conversion (copied from my build trend in another form)
st202 wishbone with Polish bushes
st202 drop links.. (after working on a carlos a while back wondering will the st185 drop link fit? and same dimensions? i need to check this out)Updatewill be fitting Polish drop links when due replacig
st202 balljoint the size of the casting seems to differ in manufacters so some will be tighter than others some just wont fit with the full sized disc in oem fitting position
St202 front strut casing with koni inserts and st202 shock top and st182 spring rubbers( Springs will be changed back to St205 Oem or st205 trd
St205 caliper with mounting point machined to help mounting surface contact and allow disc clearance inside of caliper
1mm spacer made up to fit inside disc to help clear balljoint
st202 hub with the brackets threaded and custom grade 11 bolts(iirc they are same grade as oem anyway) made up so there is a shank that fits inside the st205 caliper hole so it has a good snug fit..., the st202 hub uses the same wheel bearing as the st205 so was happy with that.. i am also using st202 abs sensors,
st205 subframe
st202 ARB with Polish Arb bushings
st205 steering rack with modified st205 inner and outer tie rods
st205 disc reduced to 304mm diameter (would suggest going 1mm or 2mm smaller at this was slightly rubbing the retaining clip fro brake pad pins.
here are the pics
http://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/disc_zpsc5675836.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/discspacer_zpsdc8f5a24.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/bolt_zps16d710d6.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/caliperheatsheid_zps0eb5d9f3.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/b_zps804ecaaf.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/cb_zps6a94499e.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/caliper_zpsf08e7c28.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/caliper3_zpsfb036872.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/caliperfitted_zpsd2ec3d42.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/caliperrearview2_zps98a18830.jpg.htmlhttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/calpierandrim_zps844d2908.jpg.html
I have more if needed the bolts are grade m14x1.25mm grade 11

here is a picture of 2 different brand of brake pads as you can see one has less material that the other and is also lower placed on the backing platehttp://s1338.photobucket.com/user/Trodaigt4/media/Rebuild/DSC_0554_zps7593cf73.jpg.html

are the subaru discs not 295mm and 297mm? i will probably replace mine again with machined st205 discs but if i wasn't i am looking at Volvo discs 302mm diameter and 26mm thickness? even 296 supra discs?, Volkswagen Caravelle models have a 300mm vented disc

Posted by: 99gt3sge Nov 30, 2013 - 10:43 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Nov 26, 2013 - 5:32 AM) *
just found this

subaru impreza sti

326 x 30 mm

hub 58

height 52.7

its 5 x 100. so its 2 mm shy of 32. but when we resurface gt4 rotors, thats prolly where they end up at...



yeah that's what i was researching too, the 04 sti is really close to the gt specs but just larger in diameter, i was going to trim it down with my brake lathe. let me know how it works out. i still need to buy a set of calipers before i buy the rotor to play with.

Posted by: playr158 Dec 24, 2013 - 1:44 PM

Just a thought....BRZ rotors are approximately 295x25.5 mm AND 5x100

Posted by: BonzaiCelica Dec 24, 2013 - 6:16 PM

if you see newcelica.org there is a guy who bolted(without modification) on avensis caliper and 295mm rotor onto his 7th gen celica.

i don't know the thickness of the rotor though

Posted by: jeffrosie Dec 28, 2013 - 11:48 AM


Only 26mm thick.

Posted by: playr158 Dec 28, 2013 - 5:20 PM

Honestly the 4mm or whatever is not going to make a difference. Thickness is really a marginal issue as it will be compensated for by the pads.

Posted by: njccmd2002 Jan 12, 2014 - 9:05 PM

ok, so the STI rotor sits awesome on the car, but the extra offset of 5 mm that clears the ball joint is so bad that makes the caliper seat not centered.

Posted by: playr158 Jan 12, 2014 - 9:37 PM

More english prease?!

The rotor sits perfect and does not hit the ball joint. But is off center to the caliper is what i'm gathering.

Does it sit too much towards the inside of the car or does it sit more towards the outside?

and your previous post said it was 326mm diameter...isn't it 26mm too large for the caliper as well?

Posted by: njccmd2002 Jan 13, 2014 - 1:18 PM

found this on ebay, bought the last set, what are the chances...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-4-ALUMINUM-ALLOY-HUB-CENTRIC-RINGS-60-1mm-TO-54-1mm-/171139485774?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27d8b5504e&vxp=mtr

Posted by: Tigawoods Jan 13, 2014 - 1:21 PM

make sure they dont sit higher than the rotor face!!

Posted by: njccmd2002 Jan 13, 2014 - 1:22 PM

QUOTE (playr158 @ Jan 12, 2014 - 8:37 PM) *
More english prease?!

The rotor sits perfect and does not hit the ball joint. But is off center to the caliper is what i'm gathering.

Does it sit too much towards the inside of the car or does it sit more towards the outside?

and your previous post said it was 326mm diameter...isn't it 26mm too large for the caliper as well?



the rotor sits perfect, and the brake surface is excellent.

however i would either have to grind up to 5 mm from the caliper bracket area to even have it centered. i cannot even measure how much that rotor has to be resized, however i will post a pic in a couple of hours.

the rotor sits too much towards the outside, if we could find a caliper for this rotor, it woud be awesome....

Posted by: njccmd2002 Jan 13, 2014 - 2:31 PM

pics...

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Suspension_Upgrades/DSCN0801_zps4806dfcd.jpg.html

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Suspension_Upgrades/DSCN0803_zpsfb8cadc2.jpg.html

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Suspension_Upgrades/DSCN0800_zps2d0d517a.jpg.html

but.... to keep caliper centered....

lots of grinding..

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Suspension_Upgrades/DSCN0802_zpse09d6f57.jpg.html

even trying to bolt caliper outside.. using a 20 mm spacer..

so just keep it simple, and get the supras, if you are able to find some that can be drilled and someone to do it...

or you want this rotor, you need to find another caliper.

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Suspension_Upgrades/DSCN0805_zpscd92d20f.jpg.html

lots of grinding....

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Suspension_Upgrades/DSCN0804_zpsd9c0eda0.jpg.html

that puts the rotor and wheel to far away from the center of rotation, and thats a no no...


Posted by: playr158 Jan 14, 2014 - 8:58 AM

Honestly, We could easily have an adaptor bracket made for this. (IE small block of aluminum cut and drilled) So that the caliper sits in the correct place and we have a bolt on rotor.

It looks like the caliper mounting holes are sitting right on top of the knuckle holes. This would be a pretty easy adaptor to fab up.

Then I could get these:
.

Posted by: njccmd2002 Jan 14, 2014 - 9:21 AM

well actually no, because the caliper is not all the way sitting down and grasping the rotor... it still needs to be pushed down at least 10 mm, and still the holes do not align.

i was looking also at a camry spindle, looks alot like our celicas, with the difference of the mounts spaced further, giving chance of a bracket, but then again, too much trouble when u can just drill supra rotors.

Posted by: playr158 Jan 16, 2014 - 12:43 PM

Gotcha.
Well like all you other nuts, I picked up a "X" rotor today. We'll see how she fits and i'll report back, it should fit minus a 7mm offset.
Which is an easy $25 spacer and that's it, much easier than drilling.

PS njccmd2002 I saw your thread about brake rotors and the Subaru. I assume this was your research for the STI rotor.

To add information

CELICA GT OEM ROTOR
_____________________
Outer Dia:.....275mm
Height:.........49.3mm
Nom Thick:....28mm
Min Thick:......26mm
Hub Reg:.......55mm
Bolt Size:.......14.5mm
Weight:.........15lb

Posted by: njccmd2002 Jan 16, 2014 - 12:57 PM

yup sti rotor

Posted by: playr158 Jan 16, 2014 - 6:04 PM

sooooooo.........BOLT ON biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Rotor:
Part Number: Centric 121.47021
292MM FRONT DISC

*I do believe there is a 295mm disc as well*






(NOTE: This is with worn ST205 OEM pads, and unconnected calipers)

Posted by: Tigawoods Jan 16, 2014 - 7:32 PM


Posted by: njccmd2002 Jan 16, 2014 - 8:14 PM

Subaru rotor? Thats good. Looks like regular impreza. Hmmm that is awesome. Maybe 2 mm shim spacers each side and perfect!!!!!

Posted by: playr158 Jan 16, 2014 - 8:44 PM

Yup BRZ, Legacy, Impreza wrx and a few others share this rotor.

I'm getting DBA 5000 two piece biggrin.gif

Posted by: Tigawoods Jan 17, 2014 - 11:31 AM

Info added! Thanks Dan!

I will be adding more info over the next few days as to our new found added options!

Posted by: Syaoran Mar 25, 2014 - 8:02 PM

That's a nice find. Two questions:

You removed the dust shield for the rotors right?

How did you compensate for the difference in height?

Posted by: playr158 Mar 25, 2014 - 9:16 PM

I never had dust shields on this setup with the brz rotors.

There is no compensation, put everything on normally.

Posted by: Syaoran Mar 27, 2014 - 12:40 PM

So an update to this thread would be

Front: ST205 calipers bolted on and WRX front rotors bolted on

Rear: ST205 Calipers shimmed 5mm away from the bracket towards thr rotor and ST205 rotors?

Now we need to find an ST205 rotor replacement since I'm guessing they're gonna get hard to find and more expensive as time goes on.


The only thing I dont like about the setup is that the front brake rotors are smaller than the rears, 20mm smaller, too.

Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 27, 2014 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE (Syaoran @ Mar 27, 2014 - 1:40 PM) *
So an update to this thread would be

Front: ST205 calipers bolted on and WRX front rotors bolted on

Rear: ST205 Calipers shimmed 5mm away from the bracket towards thr rotor and ST205 rotors?

Now we need to find an ST205 rotor replacement since I'm guessing they're gonna get hard to find and more expensive as time goes on.


The only thing I dont like about the setup is that the front brake rotors are smaller than the rears, 20mm smaller, too.

that stuff had been added to the OP already.

St205 rotor replacement for what the rears? If so I have a site from the UK that sells EBC oem replacements. I doubt they will discontinue them for a while.

My personal experience with the larger rear rotors is that the brake bias feels ALOT more even. Braking isnt as nose heavy and the car doesnt dive forward at all during heavy braking, which I find VERY helpful when I race.

Posted by: Syaoran Mar 27, 2014 - 1:06 PM

QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Mar 27, 2014 - 1:45 PM) *
QUOTE (Syaoran @ Mar 27, 2014 - 1:40 PM) *
So an update to this thread would be

Front: ST205 calipers bolted on and WRX front rotors bolted on

Rear: ST205 Calipers shimmed 5mm away from the bracket towards thr rotor and ST205 rotors?

Now we need to find an ST205 rotor replacement since I'm guessing they're gonna get hard to find and more expensive as time goes on.


The only thing I dont like about the setup is that the front brake rotors are smaller than the rears, 20mm smaller, too.

that stuff had been added to the OP already.

St205 rotor replacement for what the rears? If so I have a site from the UK that sells EBC oem replacements. I doubt they will discontinue them for a while.

My personal experience with the larger rear rotors is that the brake bias feels ALOT more even. Braking isnt as nose heavy and the car doesnt dive forward at all during heavy braking, which I find VERY helpful when I race.



That's interesting...

Yeah I was suggesting a replacement for the rears that perhaps we could find local to us.

Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 27, 2014 - 1:18 PM

QUOTE (Syaoran @ Mar 27, 2014 - 2:06 PM) *
That's interesting...

Yeah I was suggesting a replacement for the rears that perhaps we could find local to us.

Ah gotchya. I think the 205 rears are out best bet.
The only downsides of that rotor are the spacing of the caliper and the ebrake shoe only has half contact on the inner drum.

Those arent really terrible downsides in my eyes.

the company in the UK that I have listed in the OP ships super fast with tracking too smile.gif

I will keep my eyes open for any rotors that look like a match to the 205 rears

Posted by: playr158 Mar 27, 2014 - 9:57 PM

Can a mod sticky this thread alreaddy?!

Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 28, 2014 - 1:33 PM

yeah! sticky!

still looking at rotor options since thats the main concern I believe

this is the centric rotor specs for a 2005 Subaru Impreza
specs are basically the same as the brz, but this one is a few lbs. lighter



I am searching around for big brake upgrade rotors for the wrx and brz.

Stoptech (centric) has a BBk for the WRX but the rotors are too large (328mmx28mm)

well actually it seems like alot of the BBK kits for the wrx and brz are 328mm.

Id also like to merge a bit of the info from the 5x114 conversion into this thread so that it can show some info for people that would like to switch hubs when converting, Ill also have to add the possible rotors for that too. Rico will be a good source of info for that.

AP racing has a 2 piece rotor with pretty good dimensions but the thickness may be 1mm too much



also here is a list of cars with a 5x100 bolt pattern. maybe we can find another option out of the list (for some reason out cars were omitted from this list, i grabbed it from vwvortex) The best possible options will probably come from turbocharged compacts. Non-turbod compacts dont seem to have much over 270mm

2000-2006 Audi TT (4 cyl.)
2000-2006 Audi TT (4 cyl.) Quattro
2000-2006 Audi TT (V6) 1980-1998 Buick Skylark
1989-1996 Chevrolet Beretta
1982-2005 Chevrolet Cavalier
1989-1996 Chevrolet Corsica
1995-2001 Chrysler Cirrus
1988-1993 Chrysler Fifth Avenue (FWD)
1988-1993 Chrysler New Yorker
2001-2010 Chrysler PT Cruiser
1996-2006 Chrysler Sebring Convertible
2001-2006 Chrysler Sebring Sedan
1986-2000 Dodge Caravan
1990-1995 Dodge Caravan (AWD)
1984-1993 Dodge Daytona
1988-1993 Dodge Dynasty
1996-2000 Dodge Grand Caravan
1994-2006 Dodge Neon
2003-2006 Dodge Neon SRT 4
1980-1994 Dodge Omni GLH
1980-1994 Dodge Shadow
1980-1994 Dodge Spirit
1995-2007 Dodge Stratus Sedan
2001-2007 Dodge Stratus R/T Sedan
1990-1991 Lexus ES 250
1992-1997 Oldsmobile Achieva
1992-1997 Oldsmobile Achieva S
1992-1997 Oldsmobile Achieva SC
1992-1997 Oldsmobile Achieva SL
1982-1991 Oldsmobile Calais
1982-1991 Oldsmobile Ciera
1982-1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass
1982-1988 Oldsmobile Firenza
1980-1985 Oldsmobile Omega
1984-1988 Pontiac Fiero
1984-1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
1986-1998 Pontiac Grand Am
1985-1994 Pontiac Sunbird
1995-2005 Pontiac Sunfire
2003-2008 Pontiac Vibe
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8
2005-2006 Saab 9-2X
2005-2010 Scion TC
2008-2011 Scion XD
2008-2009 Scion XD TRD
1997-2011 Subaru Forester
1993-2009 Subaru Impreza
2002-2009 Subaru Impreza WRX
2003-2004 Subaru Impreza STI
2010-2011 Subaru Impreza 2.5 2010 Subaru Impreza WRX
2003-2010 Toyota Corolla
2002-2009 Toyota Matrix 2009 Toyota Matrix S
2010 Toyota Matrix Base
2004-2011 Toyota Prius
2006-2009 Toyota Prius Touring
1998-2010 Volkswagen Beetle
1998-2009 Volkswagen Beetle turbo
1993 Volkswagen Corrado SLC (V6)
1993-1998 Volkswagen Golf III GTI
1993-1998 Volkswagen Golf III VR6
1993-1998 Volkswagen Golf VR6
1999-2005 Volkswagen Golf IV
1999-2005 Volkswagen Golf TDI
2004 Volkswagen Golf R32
1999-2005 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T
1999-2005 Volkswagen GTI VR6
1993-1998 Volkswagen Jetta III GLX
1995-1998 Volkswagen Jetta III VR6
1999-2005 Volkswagen Jetta IV (4 cyl.)
1999-2005 Volkswagen Jetta IV VR6
1992-1997 Volkswagen Passat VR6

Posted by: richee3 Mar 28, 2014 - 1:56 PM

QUOTE (playr158 @ Mar 27, 2014 - 9:57 PM) *
Can a mod sticky this thread alreaddy?!



Added to the stickies.

Posted by: njccmd2002 Mar 28, 2014 - 6:04 PM

with a 5x14 hub change, just use oem supra rotors...

Posted by: Syaoran Mar 29, 2014 - 10:54 AM

QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Mar 27, 2014 - 2:18 PM) *
QUOTE (Syaoran @ Mar 27, 2014 - 2:06 PM) *
That's interesting...

Yeah I was suggesting a replacement for the rears that perhaps we could find local to us.

Ah gotchya. I think the 205 rears are out best bet.
The only downsides of that rotor are the spacing of the caliper and the ebrake shoe only has half contact on the inner drum.

Those arent really terrible downsides in my eyes.

the company in the UK that I have listed in the OP ships super fast with tracking too smile.gif

I will keep my eyes open for any rotors that look like a match to the 205 rears


Yeah you guys have it great. In my case, it's 320 just for shipping, which is 4x as much as shipping anywhere in the US.

This is stupid XD

Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 29, 2014 - 11:35 AM

ship it to me on the east coast and then Ill ship it to you! It would probably be a heck of alot cheaper


QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Mar 28, 2014 - 7:04 PM) *
with a 5x14 hub change, just use oem supra rotors...

BOOM.



Ill have to ask rico what he did for the rears again for his hub change


Posted by: playr158 Mar 29, 2014 - 11:55 AM

5x114 swap only works if you don't have AWD frown.gif
I need to find 5x114 hubs / rotors that will work for AWD

oh and still no 2-piece for the supra rotors kindasad.gif

Posted by: Syaoran Mar 29, 2014 - 8:41 PM

QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Mar 29, 2014 - 12:35 PM) *
ship it to me on the east coast and then Ill ship it to you! It would probably be a heck of alot cheaper


I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

QUOTE (playr158 @ Mar 29, 2014 - 12:55 PM) *
5x114 swap only works if you don't have AWD frown.gif
I need to find 5x114 hubs / rotors that will work for AWD

oh and still no 2-piece for the supra rotors kindasad.gif


Well, if you think about it, if it's already AWD it already has GT-Four brakes which would make this thread pointless for whoever's doing it.

BUT doing the 5x114.3 hub swap might just be a redrill deal..

Posted by: playr158 Mar 30, 2014 - 9:23 AM

Unless you have my car or a few others here who have/are doing AWD swaps and keeping McPherson suspension..

Posted by: Syaoran Mar 30, 2014 - 5:12 PM

QUOTE (playr158 @ Mar 30, 2014 - 10:23 AM) *
Unless you have my car or a few others here who have/are doing AWD swaps and keeping McPherson suspension..



But then what I said wouldn't apply, because it's not "already AWD". lol

Posted by: Fate Mar 31, 2014 - 5:01 PM

QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Mar 28, 2014 - 2:33 PM) *
Id also like to merge a bit of the info from the 5x114 conversion into this thread so that it can show some info for people that would like to switch hubs when converting, Ill also have to add the possible rotors for that too. Rico will be a good source of info for that.



Man oh man do I have a lot of information to add!

Posted by: Fate Mar 31, 2014 - 5:25 PM

FACTORY SPECS:



FYI:

MODEL________YEAR_____BOLT PATTERN_________STUD SIZE______HUB/CENTER BORE_______OFFSET

CELICA_______86-96________5x100______________12x1.5____________54.1_______H
CAMRY_______92-UP________5x114.3_____________12x1.5____________60.1______H
CAMRY/solara__99-UP_______5x114.3_____________12x1.5_____________60.1______H
RAV4_________96-UP________5x114.3____________12x1.5_____________60.1______H
Rotor Options:

FRONT:

93-99 Toyota Supra NON-Turbo




REAR options:

93-99 Toyota Supra NON-Turbo



*Height too large at 67.35mm?
*Stock GT4 is 59, GT is 65

2003-2012 Infiniti fx35



* Hub size 6mm too big, bolt size 12.7, should be 14.5

2010-2013 Lexus RX350



*Nom Thick, should be 16 (6mm too small)


BEST OPTION (IMO), and what I will be running:

2002-2010 Lexus SC430/ 01-05 Lexus is300/ 95-05 gs300 / 98-00 gs400 / 01-05 GS430



*Nom thick, should be 16mm, 4mm off - Do not see this as an issue

*Hat height of 63.3 should allow for proper contact of GT E-Brake shoes. Stock GT4 hat height is 59 (reported issues of only 1/2 of E-Brake making contact) and standard GT hat height is 65.


Posted by: mkernz22 Mar 31, 2014 - 6:46 PM

QUOTE (playr158 @ Mar 29, 2014 - 12:55 PM) *
5x114 swap only works if you don't have AWD frown.gif
I need to find 5x114 hubs / rotors that will work for AWD

oh and still no 2-piece for the supra rotors kindasad.gif


Wouldn't the mkiv supra hub work in the rear for the awd knuckle on the celica?..

Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 31, 2014 - 8:12 PM

thanks rico!
Ill add that stuff tomorrow.

You've fit the rears on already right?
The smaller diameters of those options you listed compared to the 315mm GT4 rotors seems like it could be an issue. 6-9mm seems to be the range of difference from what you've listed. It isnt MUCH but its something.

Posted by: playr158 Apr 1, 2014 - 11:11 AM

QUOTE (mkernz22 @ Mar 31, 2014 - 7:46 PM) *
Wouldn't the mkiv supra hub work in the rear for the awd knuckle on the celica?..


Honestly I don't know. It comes down to shape/splines/thickness and there aren't diagram/measurements on the internet like there are for rotors.
That and usually only the Dealer sells them and for not cheap.


QUOTE
2002-2010 Lexus SC430/ 01-05 Lexus is300/ 95-05 gs300 / 98-00 gs400 / 01-05 GS430

This looks like a pretty good option for rear rotors and a 5x114 GT4 rear brake conversion

Posted by: Tigawoods Apr 2, 2014 - 11:18 AM

QUOTE (playr158 @ Apr 1, 2014 - 12:11 PM) *
QUOTE
2002-2010 Lexus SC430/ 01-05 Lexus is300/ 95-05 gs300 / 98-00 gs400 / 01-05 GS430

This looks like a pretty good option for rear rotors and a 5x114 GT4 rear brake conversion

the 8mm difference from the ST205 315mm concerns me.
What do you think?

My setup with the 315mm ST205 rotors has the pads right at the edge of the rotor


the rotors are thinner than the ST205's because the 205rears are vented. just a remark.

Posted by: njccmd2002 Apr 13, 2014 - 2:06 PM

Mr2 rear hubs is another option... For awd

Posted by: playr158 Apr 15, 2014 - 10:59 AM

^some how I completely missed the concept of an MR2 rear hub

Posted by: Tigawoods Aug 26, 2014 - 2:39 PM

just thinking about this the other day and how that these smaller diameter rotors will change the braking bias of the car. I cant say for certain to what extent though. My F:300 and R:315 is a great balance. Its possible that a few MM's off the front might not make too much of a difference. Just thinking out loud

continue with your day.

Posted by: Fastbird Sep 6, 2014 - 6:33 PM

I'll be ordering Rav4 Hubs, bearings, poopra rotors shortly for mine. Even though I'm selling. I have these big calipers and have been meaning to do this for a LONG time. Props to Tigawoods for the good info. I only last year discovered the Rav4 hub swap which totally changed the game for this. Fortunately, my Tenzo R DC5 wheels are a dual 5 x 100 and 5 x 114.3 bolt pattern.

Posted by: olilaroche Oct 24, 2014 - 1:51 AM

The Centric C-TEK Drilled & Slotted Brake Rotors
from 2012 impreza wrx (227.47021R and 227.47021L) seems like a pretty good deal for the front.
http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/olivierlaroche666/media/centric_c-tek_drilled_slotted_brake_rotors_zpsdmkkdciu.jpg.html
from what I've found its 294mm.

What are you using as a 5x100 replacement for st205 front disc besides of impreza?



Posted by: felipeandrest205 Dec 14, 2014 - 7:08 PM

Im looking on Evo 6 brake discs.
Celica brake discs diameter is 315mm, Evo 6 is 320mm, with proper machine could decrease it to 315mm
Celica brake disc thickness is 32mm max and 30mm min, Evo 6 thickness is 32mm max and 29.8min, so its ok.
Well here comes the problem, hat height of the Celica brake disc is 59mm and the evo 6 is 43,5mm, so a spacer could fix the 11.5mm difference of the height, it should be ok?
Hub bore of the Celica brake disc is 55mm and Evo 6 is 69mm, just need to bored the hun hole to 55, it could be possible?

The best is that 2 front brake discs of evo 6 is just 85,49 on camskill

Posted by: Tigawoods Jan 22, 2015 - 3:11 PM

Thanks to Fate for pointing it out to me, but I made an itsy bitsy large oversight in the swap details, and the step necessary step of shaving off some of the inside of the front caliper like such



Him and I will be looking into the exact thickness it will need to be shaved down to, but it looks like that amount may vary depending on the rotor thickness you will be using.

Posted by: Batman722 Jan 22, 2015 - 5:21 PM

about 2mm IIRC.
I would love to find out the exact.

reference
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=74140

Posted by: Tigawoods Jan 23, 2015 - 6:56 AM

QUOTE (Batman722 @ Jan 22, 2015 - 5:21 PM) *
about 2mm IIRC.
I would love to find out the exact.

reference
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=74140


I was wondering where that image came from, Fate just handed it to me haha. Im going to add the link to the FP

He was telling me that some have shaved of 5mm+/-

I am going to measure the thickness of mine next week and Fate is going to measure the thickness of the stock bracket so we can get some solid numbers

Posted by: felipeandrest205 Mar 16, 2015 - 11:06 PM

For the rear brake rotors, I was looking at the WRX (G3) up to 2007, there are some difference from the height, but maybe can do something

DBA 2663 WRX
Specifications
Diameter 290
Height 64
Thickness 18
Min Thickness 16
C/Hole 58
Bolt holes 5 X 100 PCD

CELICA
Vent Vented
Diameter 315
Height 59
Thickness 16
Min Thickness 15
Centre Hole Dia 55
Bolt Holes 5

There are just 5mm of difference on the height and a minor difference on the thicknes. Anyone has tested this?

WRX from 2009 and up, rear brake rotors have a 64mm of height vs 59mm of the Celica ones, maybe there could be an option

Posted by: njccmd2002 Mar 19, 2015 - 2:27 PM

Ok. To add more fuel to drama. I have found rotors very close to spec. For the scion frs. I have been looking on phone so i may have missed some stuff.

http://www.fr-sforum.com/forums/targa-newfoundland-scion-fr-s/8058-kw-clubsport-coilovers-essex-competition-sprint-kit-brakes.html#/forumsite/20920/topics/8058

Some pics to summariZe

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/8812E034-322C-4EA0-84F7-B506439A3565_zpsgeu7umcv.png.html

It comes as a kit. Wonder if rotors can be sold

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/D50E041C-61A3-4AEF-A64C-0C888752DE6D_zpstxunzlyb.png.html

This is where i get lost.
http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/7032896B-4DD1-4897-895D-0BF596CA5B9A_zpst3rndbfj.png.html

It states 299 mm with 32 mm diameter and 5x100.

Wonder if sold separately and if they are centered for the gt4 caliper

Posted by: njccmd2002 Mar 19, 2015 - 4:59 PM

Found the disc....

http://counterspacegarage.com/ap-racing-cp3862-299x32-60vane-j-hook-racing-brake-disc-right.html

Posted by: Fate Mar 19, 2015 - 6:26 PM

http://counterspacegarage.com/products/brakes/ap-racing-cp8362-complete-brake-disc-assembly-j-hook-brz-frs-gt86-right.html

^Complete assembly

Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 19, 2015 - 7:25 PM

ORLY??

Posted by: njccmd2002 Mar 19, 2015 - 8:54 PM

I l know its pricy investment initially however. More adapt for track...now the question if it fits!!! Lol

Posted by: MGCustoms325 Mar 20, 2015 - 6:22 PM

That's not a bad price. I spent a lot more on my TRD Front BBK. Wish this would've been around before I bought my set.

Posted by: mi645 Mar 21, 2015 - 7:42 PM

so? front gt4 calipers with those counterspace garage rotors and tapping thread on the factory hub and all bolt on?

Posted by: njccmd2002 Mar 21, 2015 - 8:50 PM

No,no, no. We dont know the offset specs of those rotors.

The hat looks too tall

Posted by: Culpable04 Mar 23, 2015 - 1:43 PM

I printed the image and while I could not get it to print at scale, I got it very close to, given that is not 100% scale ( yet ) I cant say it with certainty, but it does seem to fit,


but if my calculations were right back then, you should not consider any disc with a height of 55mm or higher, while it will clear everything up to 59 mm height ( I think ) and driving straight; under stress when cornering and high speed suspension flexing, the ball joints will come in contact with the disc. ( of course this will change from setup to set up, ride height suspension mods etc, but when I experienced the issue ( ball joints hitting disc ) I did some more calculations and came up with a safe and very conservative disc height to fix the issue. that's when I upgraded to the Supra NA disc.

Posted by: njccmd2002 Mar 24, 2015 - 9:09 PM

i have been looking at wilwood hats, and they dont measure in mm, they use hat offset.

the bolt pattern is 5x3.93 thats the closest to 5x100

hat offset i beleive is close would be 0.5 or less, the problem is that there are 2 different ones, with the rotor bolt circle of 8*7.0, and i dont know what the bolt pattern in this rotor is, or would it be compatible with wildwood hats..

looks like there are 8 bolts, but unsure...



http://www.wilwood.com/Hats/HatList.aspx

just search at 5x3.93

Posted by: olilaroche Apr 20, 2015 - 6:18 PM

Does anyone have the part number for the rear st205 caliper bolts? Or the specs of the bolts so I can buy the right sized bolt?

Posted by: Tigawoods Apr 22, 2015 - 7:34 AM

QUOTE (olilaroche @ Apr 20, 2015 - 7:18 PM) *
Does anyone have the part number for the rear st205 caliper bolts? Or the specs of the bolts so I can buy the right sized bolt?

I cant tell off the top of my head. They should be the same thread pitch as the stock bolts but a few MM longer

Posted by: olilaroche Apr 22, 2015 - 8:07 AM

Would the supra turbo bolts would be the same? Since its basically the same caliper...

Posted by: presure2 Apr 26, 2015 - 11:21 AM

lots of cool info in here guys good work on all parts!
i know daniel added it to the sticky post, but since this is one of the most popular upgrades for the 6gc guys in general, i think it needs to be available right at the top of the forum, with less clicks..lol
facebook age and all.. wink.gif

Posted by: Tigawoods Apr 26, 2015 - 4:30 PM

haha, thanks manny, there is still alot more information that needs to be added and organized, but we have all put it on pause since it driving season haha. I know Fate paused his brake and 5x114 swap for the summer.

Posted by: easternpiro1 Apr 27, 2015 - 1:37 AM

I'm surprised no one mentioned the cadillac catera (2001) and just redrilling those to 5x100. I was told that would work as well

Posted by: bsamps4 Apr 27, 2015 - 7:24 AM

I'm using the Cadillac Catera rotors, but I've been interested in test fitting Subaru BRZ rotors.

Posted by: easternpiro1 Apr 28, 2015 - 12:27 PM

QUOTE (bsamps4 @ Apr 27, 2015 - 8:24 AM) *
I'm using the Cadillac Catera rotors, but I've been interested in test fitting Subaru BRZ rotors.


They fit right on but are kind of skinny from what I've been told

Posted by: njccmd2002 Apr 29, 2015 - 3:38 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Mar 19, 2015 - 2:27 PM) *
Ok. To add more fuel to drama. I have found rotors very close to spec. For the scion frs. I have been looking on phone so i may have missed some stuff.

http://www.fr-sforum.com/forums/targa-newfoundland-scion-fr-s/8058-kw-clubsport-coilovers-essex-competition-sprint-kit-brakes.html#/forumsite/20920/topics/8058

Some pics to summariZe

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/8812E034-322C-4EA0-84F7-B506439A3565_zpsgeu7umcv.png.html

It comes as a kit. Wonder if rotors can be sold

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/D50E041C-61A3-4AEF-A64C-0C888752DE6D_zpstxunzlyb.png.html

This is where i get lost.
http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/7032896B-4DD1-4897-895D-0BF596CA5B9A_zpst3rndbfj.png.html

It states 299 mm with 32 mm diameter and 5x100.

Wonder if sold separately and if they are centered for the gt4 caliper



I think i found the hat needed for the job. Wilwood part 170- 8324. May have right offset or very close to needed.

Posted by: Fate Apr 30, 2015 - 7:48 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Apr 29, 2015 - 4:38 PM) *
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Mar 19, 2015 - 2:27 PM) *
Ok. To add more fuel to drama. I have found rotors very close to spec. For the scion frs. I have been looking on phone so i may have missed some stuff.

http://www.fr-sforum.com/forums/targa-newfoundland-scion-fr-s/8058-kw-clubsport-coilovers-essex-competition-sprint-kit-brakes.html#/forumsite/20920/topics/8058

Some pics to summariZe

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/8812E034-322C-4EA0-84F7-B506439A3565_zpsgeu7umcv.png.html

It comes as a kit. Wonder if rotors can be sold

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/D50E041C-61A3-4AEF-A64C-0C888752DE6D_zpstxunzlyb.png.html

This is where i get lost.
http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/7032896B-4DD1-4897-895D-0BF596CA5B9A_zpst3rndbfj.png.html

It states 299 mm with 32 mm diameter and 5x100.

Wonder if sold separately and if they are centered for the gt4 caliper



I think i found the hat needed for the job. Wilwood part 170- 8324. May have right offset or very close to needed.


Tell me more!

Posted by: njccmd2002 Apr 30, 2015 - 8:09 PM

I will. I need to re do my calcs sgain

Posted by: njccmd2002 May 1, 2015 - 8:03 AM

The gt4 rotor has a hat height of 1.129 inches. To that substract a small recess portion of 0.048 and the face thickness of 0.249. You get aprox offset of 0.832 inches .

0.77 inches of offset is close to that and might even pull away disc little away from ball joint. Im waiting on Mike to measure the supra hat. But again, im not 100 positive. But this hat is already 5x 100. Application. Hub may be a little wide. Not by much. Maybe 0.141 inches

Posted by: olilaroche May 1, 2015 - 9:28 AM

is there anybody who already uses the rear st205 calipers that can unscrew 1 bolt to measure it? I'm stuck a this point! i know it's slightly longer than the st204 gay caliper, but i don't know by how long!

Posted by: njccmd2002 May 1, 2015 - 3:10 PM

QUOTE (olilaroche @ May 1, 2015 - 9:28 AM) *
is there anybody who already uses the rear st205 calipers that can unscrew 1 bolt to measure it? I'm stuck a this point! i know it's slightly longer than the st204 gay caliper, but i don't know by how long!


Get one and cut to lenght. You will need to use washers

Posted by: Fate May 1, 2015 - 8:16 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ May 1, 2015 - 9:03 AM) *
The gt4 rotor has a hat height of 1.129 inches. To that substract a small recess portion of 0.048 and the face thickness of 0.249. You get aprox offset of 0.832 inches .

0.77 inches of offset is close to that and might even pull away disc little away from ball joint. Im waiting on Mike to measure the supra hat. But again, im not 100 positive. But this hat is already 5x 100. Application. Hub may be a little wide. Not by much. Maybe 0.141 inches


Very interesting.

EDIT: My only concern that matching the gt4 rotor specs would still require shaving of the caliper's mounting points.

Posted by: njccmd2002 May 1, 2015 - 10:47 PM

There is always a tradeoff. Always. You can always look for a 30 mm disc. Its never going to be perfect.

Posted by: MGCustoms325 May 2, 2015 - 7:34 AM

QUOTE (olilaroche @ May 1, 2015 - 9:28 AM) *
is there anybody who already uses the rear st205 calipers that can unscrew 1 bolt to measure it? I'm stuck a this point! i know it's slightly longer than the st204 gay caliper, but i don't know by how long!


I'll do you one better. Here is the Toyota part # 90105-08317. You will need 4

Posted by: olilaroche May 2, 2015 - 7:38 AM


I'll do you one better. Here is the Toyota part # 90105-08317. You will need 4
[/quote]

that's the best news of my day! thank you so much!😀

I'll soon be able to install everything on the car... one step closer to get it back on the road!

Posted by: mi645 May 2, 2015 - 3:11 PM

After i installed my rear gt4 brake kit. I get intense squeals... Its intermenit but my foot is not even on the brakes. Im using gt4 wrc pads and rear supra brake pad shims. Didnt fit quite perfectly. Gonna take it apart and see whats going on. And got 2 washers on the rear to space the brake caliper 5mm away from the hub

Posted by: olilaroche May 4, 2015 - 12:23 AM

QUOTE (mi645 @ May 2, 2015 - 3:11 PM) *
After i installed my rear gt4 brake kit. I get intense squeals... Its intermenit but my foot is not even on the brakes. Im using gt4 wrc pads and rear supra brake pad shims. Didnt fit quite perfectly. Gonna take it apart and see whats going on. And got 2 washers on the rear to space the brake caliper 5mm away from the hub


have you found your rear brake problem ?

Posted by: Arturio55 Jun 9, 2015 - 9:54 PM

QUOTE (felipeandrest205 @ Mar 16, 2015 - 11:06 PM) *
For the rear brake rotors, I was looking at the WRX (G3) up to 2007, there are some difference from the height, but maybe can do something

DBA 2663 WRX
Specifications
Diameter 290
Height 64
Thickness 18
Min Thickness 16
C/Hole 58
Bolt holes 5 X 100 PCD

CELICA
Vent Vented
Diameter 315
Height 59
Thickness 16
Min Thickness 15
Centre Hole Dia 55
Bolt Holes 5

There are just 5mm of difference on the height and a minor difference on the thicknes. Anyone has tested this?

WRX from 2009 and up, rear brake rotors have a 64mm of height vs 59mm of the Celica ones, maybe there could be an option


Can someone check to see if this will work? Seems pretty legit

Posted by: felipeandrest205 Aug 1, 2015 - 1:37 AM

Have another brake disc mates



Its from a Subaru Liberty/Legacy
DBA makes them and a lot of other manufacturers

Posted by: njccmd2002 Aug 3, 2015 - 8:45 PM

will test my theory, and ordered parts for the right disc today. 333 USD crossing fingers

Posted by: njccmd2002 Aug 4, 2015 - 9:42 PM

Hahaha. No interest. Thats ok..

Posted by: Fate Aug 6, 2015 - 9:52 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Aug 3, 2015 - 9:45 PM) *
will test my theory, and ordered parts for the right disc today. 333 USD crossing fingers


Looking forward to details, PM me if that's easier

Posted by: njccmd2002 Aug 6, 2015 - 10:14 PM

Pm sent

Posted by: njccmd2002 Aug 13, 2015 - 3:13 AM

well nevermind, theory did not work, its a beautiful rotor, and hat, gorgeous, but not applicable for the gt4 caliper. Dont have the energy or enthusiasm, to spend on ap racing calipers, and try to find a suitable one, lol... nope.

nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....

Posted by: njccmd2002 Aug 13, 2015 - 3:18 AM

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/F0DE9E04-CC26-404B-B367-5425C346EBC7_zpsxvo3a9hr.jpg.html

clears the ball joint by several mm

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/6D5B530C-C62D-42A9-8D48-1026275FCF81_zpsmsrw3gsj.jpg.html

need to remove the shields. but what not..

nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....
nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....
nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....
nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....

Posted by: Tigawoods Aug 13, 2015 - 5:05 AM

whats the specs on those rotors?

Posted by: njccmd2002 Aug 13, 2015 - 5:26 AM

299mm x 32mm (11.75 x 1.25)

problem is they are on a slightly larger hat. they require a hat with rotor bolt circle of 8 x 7. Thus limits the friction area, a lot. the gt caliper is literally hitting the bolts, before it grabs the whole area.

wilwood offers 12.19 x 1.25, but then you get into finding a way to mount the caliper part (160-11835 )

now the calipers from ap racing are part number CP8350 Four Piston Forged, but then the bracket adapter is unknown. I dont think they sell them.
at any rate, its boring to keep reinventing the wheel.

I have found this guy

http://www.rottenleonard.com/Menu.html

i may give it a try.. lol/




Posted by: playr158 Aug 13, 2015 - 2:34 PM

man I love your dedication dude.

way to keep developing this mod along.
those are some very pretty rotors

Posted by: Fate Aug 13, 2015 - 4:18 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Aug 13, 2015 - 4:18 AM) *
http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/F0DE9E04-CC26-404B-B367-5425C346EBC7_zpsxvo3a9hr.jpg.html

clears the ball joint by several mm

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/6D5B530C-C62D-42A9-8D48-1026275FCF81_zpsmsrw3gsj.jpg.html

need to remove the shields. but what not..

nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....
nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....
nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....
nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol.... nope, nope. get the gt4 rotors, and shave em, or do the supra rotors, and redrill period. lol....



Ugh! sorry it didn't work out.

Posted by: Box Aug 13, 2015 - 7:20 PM

That sucks... Hopefully you can do a return and get your purchase price back at least.

Posted by: njccmd2002 Aug 13, 2015 - 7:56 PM

ill keep it, i have and extra hub, i want to play with... maybe in the future i may go ap racing ...

Posted by: Tigawoods Aug 13, 2015 - 8:44 PM

Im thinking...how much more would it really cost to get AP or DBA to custom make a rotor?

Posted by: njccmd2002 Aug 13, 2015 - 10:32 PM

we dont need a custom rotor, there are plenty of rotor discs, out there, and wilwood sells several 5x3.93 hats in different offsets. we need a custom hat. but with that comes numbers $$$. im pretty sure we can come up with something viable, the question is, price.

the other problem is, rims, most bbk wont clear unless 17 or above, and unless the 6gc is featured in the next ff8 , aint nothing good coming for us.

Posted by: playr158 Aug 25, 2015 - 12:31 PM

QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Aug 13, 2015 - 9:44 PM) *
Im thinking...how much more would it really cost to get AP or DBA to custom make a rotor?



I asked DBA about a rotor....basically...no was the answer

Posted by: Tigawoods Sep 4, 2015 - 9:18 AM

Ive fixed a couple mistakes on the front hub and caliper prep on the OP as well as some more detailed info on the rear caliper mounting.

There are still a whole bunch of details I need to address that I hope to clear up this winter. Hopefully we can get this ironed out over the next few months


I would like to get the Cadillac Catera rotor info and add that to the options list as that has worked for a few members

again, if anyone see's any mistakes or inconsistencies in the OP just let me know

Posted by: Tigawoods Sep 14, 2015 - 10:29 AM

my own search for new front rotors has begun, im not sure how long my current rotors will last when I start tracking


ATTENTION!!!!!!


I found a pretty cheap ($360/pair) 2-Piece front rotor pair for the Supra Non-Turbo.
Spec:296x32

Its made by a brand I have never heard of before. I myself probably wouldnt trust it for track racing but for spirited street stuff it should be fine.

I cant find the rotor listed on the site but here is the link for it on vivid racing and a link for the disk replacements on the company site. The supra turbo and non turbo may share the same hat, I am not sure. These would have to be re-drilled to 5x100 of course

Ill have to inquire to get some more info on these and whats available.
If only there was a direct bolt on 5x100 frown.gif



https://www.vividracing.com/catalog/racingbrake-twopiece-front-rotor-slotted-toyota-supra-nonturbo-593-9398-p-93311.html

rotor replacements
http://www.racingbrake.com/LEXUS-FRONT-p/d206-01-311-01.htm

Posted by: njccmd2002 Sep 14, 2015 - 5:32 PM

Lol my search for a bolt on rotor is done for. The biggest issue is the hat. It has to be made. I have not found a single company that mixes and matches. The hat sizes wilwood offers are too big.

Posted by: Tigawoods Sep 15, 2015 - 6:23 AM

funny thing is that I do have a connection with someone who would be able to make hats.
He had hats made for his front and rear rotors on his RX-7 so that he could get the offset he wanted.

I could inquire. As long as we pick a disk that we all would use (I dont think he would be willing to make 3 different hats)
Sucks all the different disks probably have a different PCB

Posted by: BonzaiCelica Sep 16, 2015 - 1:27 AM

Don't mean to throw this in the mix, but has anyone ever seen the twin piston GT4 brakes in person. My guess is that they use same 315mm rotor according to Toyota diagrams. Googled it but nothing came up. I see one clip for sale locally that has them

Posted by: olilaroche Sep 16, 2015 - 6:19 AM

QUOTE (BonzaiCelica @ Sep 16, 2015 - 1:27 AM) *
Don't mean to throw this in the mix, but has anyone ever seen the twin piston GT4 brakes in person. My guess is that they use same 315mm rotor according to Toyota diagrams. Googled it but nothing came up. I see one clip for sale locally that has them


Yeah front and rear use 315mm disc on the gt4. I've just done my conversion yesterday

Posted by: njccmd2002 Oct 3, 2015 - 1:53 PM

well, points for the homebuilder... lol...

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/3E5D8E63-395E-498E-8D08-C92FC8036AF8_zpseiug4edu.jpg.html

the oem supra rotors.....

Posted by: 4-eyed-freek Oct 3, 2015 - 5:22 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Oct 3, 2015 - 2:53 PM) *
well, points for the homebuilder... lol...

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/njccmd2002/media/6th_Generation_Celica/97_Limited_Edition/Brake_Upgrades/3E5D8E63-395E-498E-8D08-C92FC8036AF8_zpseiug4edu.jpg.html

the oem supra rotors.....



not to thread jack, but im so happy someone else is running trd lug nuts!! Price is a bit shocking but the design is awesome!

Posted by: enderswift Oct 4, 2015 - 1:34 PM

something no one has mentioned on this thread is the need for a proportioning valve. the gt4 rears DO lock up before the fronts without the weight of the rear differential.


Posted by: BonzaiCelica Oct 5, 2015 - 1:25 PM

Are you referring to swapping it out with an adjustable valve or with the Stock GT4?

This recent article featuring Orido supra (Japanese race car driver who also appears on best motoring
http://s483.photobucket.com/user/BonzaiCelica/media/3S-GE%20Beams/Superstrut%20Susp/IMAG1413_zpsqj1w0ogf.jpg.html

Read left paragraph. I guess these brakes were really awesome for their time. When Toyota made quality parts

Posted by: enderswift Oct 5, 2015 - 2:20 PM

an aftermarket adjustable proportioning valve would be a wise investment.

Posted by: BonzaiCelica Oct 5, 2015 - 3:40 PM

Mr Celica if the month beams extraordinaire said those are real hard to find tune. Or wait never mind the member who had a red Celica with gtfour brakes and rear diffuser with a 3sgte swap.

Posted by: Tigawoods Oct 5, 2015 - 4:16 PM

I haven't had my rears lock up before the fronts but it is just over the line where it could. My arrangement may be unique to that though.
If you want a more close to stock bias then yes, you will want a bias controller. But I believe the 300mm front and 315mm rears give a more even bias to the car.

I guess you MADE the supra rotors fit berto!

Posted by: enderswift Oct 5, 2015 - 5:13 PM

the rear end has kicked out on me on 3 separate occasions.

once during a panic stop because some jackass was doing 10 mph on the highway

twice when I hit the brakes on a curved, downhill highway off ramp.


In everyday driving its not an issue. But the above situations are not uncommon. They DO happen, and you don't want the rear end kicking out to make things worse.

I'm running new Michelin Pilot sport tires, new rear struts, new rear top mounts, new poly bushings, new SS lines, new everything. Also my swaybar is at the softest setting. Therefore I don't think there is anything wrong with my setup. Proportioning valves are cheap, easy to install, and not that hard to setup. Just do a number of hard stops in a big parking lot or wherever until the rears stop locking up first. I'll be ordering mine soon and installing them over the winter.

You guys can do what you want, just be careful and be prepared to countersteer

Posted by: 4-eyed-freek Oct 5, 2015 - 5:26 PM

QUOTE (enderswift @ Oct 5, 2015 - 5:13 PM) *
the rear end has kicked out on me on 3 separate occasions.

once during a panic stop because some jackass was doing 10 mph on the highway

twice when I hit the brakes on a curved, downhill highway off ramp.


In everyday driving its not an issue. But the above situations are not uncommon. They DO happen, and you don't want the rear end kicking out to make things worse.

I'm running new Michelin Pilot sport tires, new rear struts, new rear top mounts, new poly bushings, new SS lines, new everything. Also my swaybar is at the softest setting. Therefore I don't think there is anything wrong with my setup. Proportioning valves are cheap, easy to install, and not that hard to setup. Just do a number of hard stops in a big parking lot or wherever until the rears stop locking up first. I'll be ordering mine soon and installing them over the winter.

You guys can do what you want, just be careful and be prepared to countersteer



I think its just the driver... bahah never forget that moment! laugh.gif Or the look on her face!

Posted by: enderswift Oct 5, 2015 - 5:34 PM

QUOTE (4-eyed-freek @ Oct 5, 2015 - 6:26 PM) *
QUOTE (enderswift @ Oct 5, 2015 - 5:13 PM) *
the rear end has kicked out on me on 3 separate occasions.

once during a panic stop because some jackass was doing 10 mph on the highway

twice when I hit the brakes on a curved, downhill highway off ramp.


In everyday driving its not an issue. But the above situations are not uncommon. They DO happen, and you don't want the rear end kicking out to make things worse.

I'm running new Michelin Pilot sport tires, new rear struts, new rear top mounts, new poly bushings, new SS lines, new everything. Also my swaybar is at the softest setting. Therefore I don't think there is anything wrong with my setup. Proportioning valves are cheap, easy to install, and not that hard to setup. Just do a number of hard stops in a big parking lot or wherever until the rears stop locking up first. I'll be ordering mine soon and installing them over the winter.

You guys can do what you want, just be careful and be prepared to countersteer



I think its just the driver... bahah never forget that moment! laugh.gif Or the look on her face!



And the car was stock when that happened, now factor in a rear caliper that is oversized for the application

Posted by: Tigawoods Oct 6, 2015 - 7:41 AM

QUOTE (enderswift @ Oct 5, 2015 - 6:13 PM) *
the rear end has kicked out on me on 3 separate occasions.

once during a panic stop because some jackass was doing 10 mph on the highway

twice when I hit the brakes on a curved, downhill highway off ramp.


In everyday driving its not an issue. But the above situations are not uncommon. They DO happen, and you don't want the rear end kicking out to make things worse.

I'm running new Michelin Pilot sport tires, new rear struts, new rear top mounts, new poly bushings, new SS lines, new everything. Also my swaybar is at the softest setting. Therefore I don't think there is anything wrong with my setup. Proportioning valves are cheap, easy to install, and not that hard to setup. Just do a number of hard stops in a big parking lot or wherever until the rears stop locking up first. I'll be ordering mine soon and installing them over the winter.

You guys can do what you want, just be careful and be prepared to countersteer

Ill throw a section about it in the OP.
I can understand that not every setup is the same and just because mine doesn't do it, doesn't mean that everyone else's performs alike.

I figure if you are willing to go through the effort of doing this swap, it shouldnt be that much more difficult to plumb in a Bias Controller.

Posted by: cheigs Oct 11, 2015 - 6:40 AM

Hello guys,


Has anyone tried the Toyota Avensis T25 disks for this upgrade?








Part numbers:

TOYOTA : 4351205050 - 43512-05050 - 4351205070 - 43512-05070 - 4351205110

AP : 24972

ATE : 24012601411

BOSCH: 0204173009 - 0986479423

Brake ENGINEERING:
DI956341

BRECO :
BS 8591 - BS8591

BREMBO :
09.9817.10 - 09.9817.11

FERODO :
DDF1315

METELLI :
230854

sbs :
17510 - 1815204590 - 1815204595

TEXTAR :
92135600

TRW :
DF4445S

ZIMMERMANN :
590258400



Thank You

Posted by: njccmd2002 Oct 12, 2015 - 7:16 PM

^^^ avensis not released in the united states.

so they will be difficult to obtain in the US

Posted by: cheigs Oct 13, 2015 - 4:45 AM

Here, in Spain, is posible to order parts from Toyota cars not released in Europe only with the part number.

In any case, you can obtain by eBay.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/360666097518?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170711453064?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Best regards

Posted by: mkernz22 Oct 13, 2015 - 4:10 PM

QUOTE (cheigs @ Oct 13, 2015 - 5:45 AM) *
Here, in Spain, is posible to order parts from Toyota cars not released in Europe only with the part number.

In any case, you can obtain by eBay.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/360666097518?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170711453064?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Best regards


Yeah, but I don't think anyone in the USA is going to pay $340usd (shipping included) just for basic front rotors off of ebay...

Posted by: njccmd2002 Oct 14, 2015 - 2:39 AM

very expensive, but glad you found a similar rotor.

Posted by: Kiolofunk Oct 14, 2015 - 2:07 PM

Can anyone provide the exact measurements of the "bolt-on" rotor that we should use? I think I may have found a local shop who is associated with distributing Brembo rotors and the rotors are made here in our country. Wondering whether they could create a one off for us.

Posted by: Tigawoods Oct 14, 2015 - 2:16 PM

QUOTE (Kiolofunk @ Oct 14, 2015 - 3:07 PM) *
Can anyone provide the exact measurements of the "bolt-on" rotor that we should use? I think I may have found a local shop who is associated with distributing Brembo rotors and the rotors are made here in our country. Wondering whether they could create a one off for us.

its on the OP but here. like this, but 5x100


if only they could provide a 2-peice

Posted by: njccmd2002 Oct 28, 2015 - 6:42 PM

Unless my knuckles are fro st. The supra rotors did not fit mine even after grinding 7 mm. Either my knuckles are different of have been modified

Posted by: BonzaiCelica Oct 28, 2015 - 8:44 PM

A local member mentioned something to me about supra rotors no working. Just can remember exactly words. Said he's converting to 5x114

Posted by: Tigawoods Oct 28, 2015 - 8:53 PM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Oct 28, 2015 - 6:42 PM) *
Unless my knuckles are fro st. The supra rotors did not fit mine even after grinding 7 mm. Either my knuckles are different of have been modified

Hopefully we can resolve this and get everything out on the table.
Many measurements will be taken this winter when my car is back on the chopping block

QUOTE (BonzaiCelica @ Oct 28, 2015 - 8:44 PM) *
Masked man mentioned something to me about supra rotors no working. Just can remember exactly words. Said he's converting to 5x114

him and I were discussing this recently
He is having trouble with the 5x114 conversion and this swap
as is Fate.
Fate should be getting back to trying to figure out a solution. He just got hitched so he is a bit preoccupied
MaskedMan said hes working on it slowly. I need to check back with him.

Posted by: BonzaiCelica Oct 29, 2015 - 12:24 AM

Ha dang after I posted his name I said shoot and changed it to anonymous like 20 sec after my initial post. Dang your fast

Posted by: Rusty Oct 29, 2015 - 2:43 AM

TRD high performance brake rotors would be the correct size. Since the TRD calipers are pretty much same specs as the supra & GT-4 ones, afaik.

The AE100 would be perfect at φ300. but would require redrilling from 4x100 to 5x100. They are discountinued, but maybe someone is making their own ones?

Posted by: njccmd2002 Oct 29, 2015 - 9:40 AM

Its kinda frustratin, lol. I have the gt4 rotors, and no one will resize them around here, lol.

the supra rotors i have are oem, and will require the calipers to be grinded almost 10mm. which will only leave 7 mm tabs. lol. thats no bueno. me thinks. Unless a backing plate is welded to the rear of the ear, to provide more support. not sure how safe that could be.

the caliper leg is 17mm.

the difference in height from the celica rotor and the supra rotor makes this weird offset. Brakes are the only thing that are making me unable to drive my car. so im running out of options lol... unless i go back to stock. since i dont have all the stock parts any more (long story)

question here is, is the ST knuckle different from the GT knuckle....

Posted by: mkernz22 Oct 29, 2015 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Oct 29, 2015 - 10:40 AM) *
question here is, is the ST knuckle different from the GT knuckle....


Part numbers are the same for both, and is spread 94-99.
43211-29015 - R, 43212-29015 - L (w/o ABS)
43211-20271 - R, 43212-20231 - L (w/ ABS)

Posted by: njccmd2002 Oct 29, 2015 - 10:46 AM

thanks, i saw that. so if the knuckles are the same, then oem supra rotors are SOL, unless the calipers are grinded down to 7mm in the tabs.... which is too much....

Posted by: Tigawoods Nov 9, 2015 - 8:48 AM

Added info about Bias Valves.

My car will be put up for hibernation soon and I will try and get a hole heap of measurements to hopefully help clear up some of this confusion.

Posted by: Tigawoods Apr 25, 2017 - 3:00 PM

making a "brake" through for those who want the ST205 rear calipers and 5x114.3 hubs.

At the moment I am working on figuring out if 2004 STI Rotors will fit the bill.
So far I have learned that aftermarket brands have the rotors drilled for both 5x100 and 5x114.3
https://www.rallysportdirect.com/fits/2004-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-2-5/high-performance-brake-rotors/dba-4655s-10-g-dba-4000-series-t-slot-slotted-rotor-pair-rear

Rotors overall thicknesses
GT - 65mm
ST205 - 59mm (hence why the caliper need to be spaced 5mm to match the rotors position)
STI - 67mm

The hubs used to convert the rear put the diameter of the hub at 60.1. The STI hub bore is 56.1 so whatever rotors you get, would need to be widened. not too bad of an issue.

Posted by: Tigawoods Apr 28, 2017 - 7:40 AM

Working on getting this rear conversion done.
Here are a few more details I have been working on.

Got the DBA rotors in and they are being bored out to 60.1

I have been having trouble finding a 2mm spacer for behind the rotor to help get is centered in the caliper. Most places I have called have a minimum of 3mm. I am not sure if that 1mm will make a difference or not. (Technically I would need at 2.5mm since the STI rotor is 67.5) So it would actually be .5mm off if I got a 3mm spacer.
Since the STI's rotors disc thickness is 2mm larger than the ST205s, I am unsure how much wiggle room there is

(Also, thanks to RabidTRD the diameter of the 1998 Camry rear hub face is 6")

I have an idea to space the hub out, I am not sure how permanent...or even temporary of a solution it can be.
McMaster sells washers that will fit really snugly around the wheel studs coming out of the hub.
Wheel studs are 12mm O.D. (.472) the washer at McMaster are (.474) I.D. with a thickness tolerance of .090-.112 the thickness (2.5mm) we want is .0984


There are alot of variables here and this isnt necessarily "bolt on" but its the closest I have been able to find. Hopefully it all works and fits fine. There are still alot of variables I have yet to test out since I havent been able to get hands on my car yet

Posted by: bloodMoney Apr 28, 2017 - 10:09 AM

I honestly don't think that .5mm is going to have that much of an effect on braking performance... Or, is this just an exercise to satisfy your OCD? (I can completely relate to that lol)

For the purposes of getting back into the seat though, I would probably be able to live with half a millimeter. Besides, once the pads are bedded, its not like you're going to have unequal braking force on the two sides of the rotor. The pistons should still apply equal force to both rotor faces, with the difference being the resting position of the pistons in the caliper. Even if you burned up all the pad material, the tolerances in the caliper itself are probably larger than .5mm, and I doubt that they would spit a piston.

But then, I could be completely wrong, and if that's the case, just let me ramble to myself here in the corner... laugh.gif





Posted by: Tigawoods Apr 28, 2017 - 12:32 PM

.5mm is a really really small amount to be worried about yeah.
Im sure my setup right now is probably off by that much or more, but I dont notice it (besides more than normal brake dust)

I keep visualizing this as if there is a gap between the pad and rotor face...which there really isnt haha

Posted by: Tigawoods May 2, 2017 - 8:28 PM

small update:

grabbed rear 1996 Non-ABS Camry Hubs from a junker at a scrap yard, because the whole [stud bore diameter and running extended studs from ARP] but most people would be fine with picking up some hubs from Rock Auto.

I have been hunting for 3mm spacers and found a few places that would do it or have some [motorsport-tech for custom and poweredbymax for in stock 3mm]
But after discussing with a friend, we came to the conclusion that it really isn't necessary for the spacer behind the rotor to be hub centric (although the places I noted above are hub centric) As long as the brake rotor is centered on the hub, all is well. Project Kics has 3mm spacers that arent hub centric and are super cheap for a pair ($13). Which brings me to my next note.

I had a quick fear (that lasted only a moment) that the 3mm spacer behind the rotor would take up all of the available 60.1mm areas of the hub bore and have my 60.1 bored rotor sitting above the 60.1 area. The protrusion coming from the hub face is stepped. It goes from 60.1 to like 59mm. I did a quick measure and with the 3mm spacer, there will still be 4-5mm left of the 60.1 area of the hub protrusion. All is well.


also quick note to be added to the OP: Usable rotor thickness in the rear calipers is about 18mm max

Everything should be coming in by the end of this week and I will be test fitting one side to see how it all works out
fingers crossed!

Posted by: urbandork May 18, 2017 - 6:31 PM

I used 97-01 Infiniy Q45 front disc on the front of my st165 with 205 caliper. Had a 6gc so I've read about st165 st185 at200 st202 st204 caliper disc swaps between single and dual pots calipers and gaining larger disc across st gt gts models. So it seemed like what was done with a st165 might be applicable to a 6gc.

Only 3mm shaved off calipers, more than enough ball joint clearance, pretty much full pad engagement to disc face. No need to turn down disc diameter, only had to re drilled to 5x100.

Had a friend (MaskedMan) test it on a gt knuckle with I think camry hubs as he's doing a 5x114 conversion and he had 2mm of pad overhang on the inside vs my 2mm over hang on ouside. Iirc he also had to shave 1 or 2mm more off the caliper ears but that might have more to do with the non 6gc hubs.


http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=52210&p=482084#p482084

Posted by: urbandork May 19, 2017 - 6:09 AM

Using a flat edge against the face of the hub (where the disc goes) and a caliper with a depth gauge, I measured the distance from the knuckle mounting ears surface (side of ears on the inside facing the motor/the area the caliper ears would make contact with) to be 68mm on the st165. I just held a ruler against the hub and stuck it out so the depth gauge of the caliper would line up with it. I fed the depth gauge through the bolt hole on the ear allowing the base of the caliper to level out on the ears surface.

Can anyone see what this distance is on the st204 with a regular 5x100 hub?

You can refer to my rough drawing for the math but must know the standard dimensions and the hat thicknes of a given rotor.

Posted by: Tigawoods May 19, 2017 - 8:44 AM

dude that drill press with the planer bit worked great!!
Your swap turned out great!
The 5x114.3 conversion throws a few more factors into the mix
Im taking a break on all this for a bit so Ill take a look at everything later and see what info can be swapped between the two


I had a bit of a miscalculation with my little project.
The Rotors I got are a 20mm thick disc and not 18mm as I had thought. So they are 2mm too big.
On the other hand I lined up my 5x114.3 Hub on the ST205 Rotor and I believe it can be drilled to 5x114.3 and then balanced. The Ebrake adjustment hole probably will be useless from that point on. Im taking a break on this whole thing for a bit so I can actually drive the car for the summer



Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 17, 2018 - 7:24 PM

took measurements of my front rotors so I can hopefully get a solution for a replacement.

AP Racing has the perfect discs but the top hats available for the discs are in questions. Right now the S2000 kit looks like it may be in spec...excpet for the 70.1mm center bore, so I will have to see if they will do custom hub bore...

anyhoo. here are some pretty pics






Posted by: Fate Mar 26, 2018 - 9:35 PM

thumbsup.gif

Posted by: Fuppylodders Jan 9, 2019 - 7:45 AM

Hey, sorry to revive thread...
I'm having a slight issue with fitting of the rear gt4 brakes on the st202 with regards to the disc.
There appears to be about 1mm difference between the 205 disc and the 202 hub. The hub is listed to be 54.1 with the center bore of the disc being 55mm. I understand tolerance required for being able to slot them on. But apparently my hub has a slight taper on it too, as well as the 205 disc having a slight chamfer on the center bore. These added together seem to be creating a slight half mm floating.
It's not me doing the conversion but a garage who are also doing my engine conversion so I can't visual see but that's the information I'm being given. He seems to feel they're not being enabled to sit hubcentric properly.

Does anyone know anything of this? I'm in the UK and got my rear disc from MTEC.
Thanks in advance!

Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 14, 2019 - 10:20 PM

Wow sorry, totally missed this post. I dont get notifications anymore. It sounds like there is a manufacturing error with that disc. I have ZERO problems with fitting the EBC replacements to my hub. It would be very surprising though to see such an error in that disc if it was manufactured to OE spec.
Im sure you resolved it by now but best bet is to bore out the rotor hub diameter a hair to have it fit.



In other news Im re-opening my search for a 2-piece solution for the 5x114.3 swappers. The easy way out is Racing Brake. They have an application for the Non-Turbo Supra. Im a little wary on using them as there isnt much talk about their longevity anywhere about that brand.

Ive started talks with DBA to see if there is a setup that will fit.

For the 5x100 users the BRZ DBA T3s would be bolt on.

For the 5x114.3 users, we will see. The BRZ rotors inner hat diameter may be too small to fit over the RAV4 hubs. I'll check back in when I get more information.

Posted by: njccmd2002 Mar 14, 2019 - 11:59 PM

hmm, i have problems with oem supra rims.... ill probably measure against yours

Posted by: Tigawoods Mar 20, 2019 - 7:45 AM

i remember you did but I forget what the problem you had was.


I think i scared DBA with my inquiry. He asked for what application this setup was for, then I unloaded all the information down upon him, no response back.

BUT. Got pointed to a up and coming company in Australia who is making really good products. Brypar
They do custom anything and everything. They are able to make discs that fit my Apexi hats. They can also make complete rotor sets. Cost is a bit more than off the shelf DBA or AP Racing rotors, but not by much considering they would be custom one off rotors. The quote I have for a pair of disc replacements for my current setup is about ~$600

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