This is a cautionary tale to anyone who thinks they are going to slap a turbo on a high mileage engine and run low boost. DON’T DO IT! In December of 2014 despite all the posts that say, don’t boost your engine unless it is low mileage or rebuilt, I went for it. Is the 5sfe a great engine to boost, yes, but do it right. This post will tell the LONG, expensive, frustrating story to creating my 5sfte. The below write up is what happened.
Background
It has been a long road for this 5sfte build. Here is the engine I started with:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3076_zpsynmw0gi5.jpg.html
I saw what Supershannon77 did with an Ebay T3/4 turbo for her 6th gen Celica 5sfte and I tried to duplicate it (with a few upgrades). I bought an Ebay kit with the idea that I would need to modify or replace some of the parts that came in it but the bottom line was it would give me a turbo, intercooler, exhaust manifold, downpipe, and some miscellaneous needed parts.
As I started the build I found the kit seriously lacking. The big one was the downpipe was for a CT26 turbo not a T3/4 so I had to order one. There was no oil return line and there was not enough intercooler piping. It took 3 months to resolve all the issues with the advertised “bolt-on” kit (there is no such thing as bolt on from Ebay), I ended up with the following build:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3180_zpshd7utgny.jpg.html
8 psi boost
T3/T04E Turbo
Turbosmart Wastegate
2.5 inch full exhaust
Magnaflow Muffler and Catalytic Converter
AEM FIC Piggyback
SSQV Blow Off Valve
460cc RX-7 Injectors
FMIC
Walpro 255 Fuel Pump
3sgte 3 Bar MAP Sensor
Custom downpipe from Demon Motorsports
Ebay tubular exhaust manifold
I started noticing when I would pop the hood after a drive that there was an extreme amount of heat coming out of the engine bay. I also saw that the under hood insulation was burning away. After doing some digging, I found that the tubular manifold I was using was giving off too much heat instead of shooting it down to the exhaust. I needed a 3sgte manifold. I went to the Toyota dealership and they told me that all their warehouses are out of stock and that the best bet was to find a used one. That led to one option, Ebay. After about a week of missing out on bids I finally scored a 3sgte manifold. It arrived and I was so excited, I ceramic coated it and put it on and the car was back!
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3200_zpshp5pgsib.jpg.html
Then another problem reared its head, the clutch started slipping. I bought a SPEC stage 2 clutch, got it installed and the car ran like a champ. In the process of tuning the car, I sprung a fuel leak that lead to an engine fire. I think it the Walpro fuel pump put too much pressure on the original lines coming from the fuel filter and something popped.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/Burnt%20Hood_zps15ggcsxl.jpg.html
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Now here I am, where I should have started. In hindsight I should have rebuilt the engine before going down the turbo route. My plan was to fix the fire damage and rebuild the engine to a 14-15 psi boost-able monster. My goal is 280-300 horsepower. Based on what I saw in Pressure2’s build, I can use stock pistons and rods but I will need a metal head gasket. I planned to swap the California cylinder head with a Federal head so the fuel injectors fit perfectly.
The Engine Pull
I found this great video series of someone pulling, rebuilding, and installing a 5sfe in a Camry. There are some minor differences from this video and my car (engine mounts and automatic vs manual transmission). This video was a really big help. The link is: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHJZ_x0neI
Also, these 2 books will become your best friend:
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As I started removing parts from the car I found more fire damage than I expected. Nothing that cannot be fixed or replaced but it is still surprising. Initially I only thought I lost my 3 bar MAP sensor, vacuum lines, and some electrical wiring, but there was more than that. The damage included the power steering pump, distributor cap, passenger side axle, A/C trinary switch, EGR recirculation valve, and all the splashguards on that side of the car.
Now starts the engine pull. I took out the exhaust, turbo, downpipe, intake, battery, and radiator.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3303_zpspe3zy4zf.jpg.html
After that I disconnected the upper and lower heater hoses, then the motor mounts. Also, the A/C condenser and the power steering pump had to be disconnected. When disconnecting the A/C condenser I had to make sure I did not unplug any hoses. I hung it with the heavy duty ties on the front of the engine bay. Then the engine pull began.
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As I went through the process of pulling the motor I had to make sure that nothing else was connected as I pulled the motor. I ended up missing the fuel return line to the charcoal canister. This lead to me breaking the Bimetal BVSV Evaporative Vacuumm Valve luckily I found a used one for $20.
Here is the empty engine bay.
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I could see all the fire damage. Damn, this is going to be some hard work!
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Here is the engine out of the car.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3317_zpsita3ua6e.jpg.html
From the back. . .
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3321_zpsvfjaqeec.jpg.html
Looks like I will need a new upper and lower timing belt cover too.
Here is a picture with the transmission off the car. It breaks my heart to see a brand new performance clutch on a burned up engine.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3316_zpslh6fd73c.jpg.html
Engine Breakdown
Now with the transmission and clutch off the engine, I could mount it to the engine stand. When you are talking off the clutch make sure you put it somewhere out of the way so that you don’t spill oil on it and ruin the friction surface. A friend pointed this out to me when he saw I had the clutch right near where I was working on the engine.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3317_zpsita3ua6e.jpg.html
With the engine on the stand I could really see how bad of shape the engine was in from the fire. There were melted wires, vacuum tubing, timing covers, and seals. That is what I get for not listening to the forums about rebuilding the engine before turbo’ing it
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3318_zps9at7r0e4.jpg.html
You can see here that the harmonic balancer is still on the crank. I was not able to get if off even after taking a cutter to it. I ended up leaving the crank in the block and letting the machine shop take care of it. Come to find out when the timing belt was changed before I owned he car, someone used red Loctite.
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There is the culprit that caused the engine fire. The fuel injector made for a federal cylinder head did not seal with the California one on the engine. I hate Cali emissions even more than ever!
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3327_zpshsyu4rz6.jpg.html
More pictures of the engine teardown.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3328_zpsmwgobmtz.jpg.html
Here is the fuel rail. Besides some burn marks it is in good shape. I will still replace the pressure regulator just to be safe.
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Here are the camshafts still on the head.
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Cylinder head is off the block
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And the pistons and rods.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3339_zpsevqftv2t.jpg.html
Engine Build-Up
Once the engine was apart I took the block and crank to a machine shop. The engine had 132K on it and did not need to be bored. The block was honed and vatted. The crank was polished. Here they are:
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Also, I ordered a rebuilt federal cylinder head. The company was willing to take my old Cali head as a core. The California head has some differences from the Federal brother.
1. Different injector seats
2. Extra EGR port on the back
Here is the old head next to the new one:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/0698f58e-df74-434a-9319-1aa1deb015ca_zps3yueuqmv.jpg.html
I decided to paint the block just to make it look cool.
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Now it was time to start putting this puppy back together but I was getting an itching feeling I was missing something so I started doing some more research. I was looking to any weak points or flaws with my build and I found one that bothered me. The rod bolts may not be strong enough to handle the power I was going to put them through so I decided to go with a forged rod. This would ensure that a bolt would not snap under boost. Also, I went with an aluminum allow piston for added strength. It could not beat a forged piston but the forged ones cost WAY too much money. You could see how much beefer the new piston and rod is compared to the older one.
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Block and head back together.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3358_zps0m8ogkpz.jpg.html
Timing belt.
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Before I put the fuel rail on I wanted to do a comparison of the fuel injectors. Here are RX-7 (red top), stock California (green middle), and stock federal (green bottom) injectors. You can see the difference between the California one compared to the other 2. Some people say the federal injector will fit in the California head, well not for me.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3367_zpshz2afurj.jpg.html
Here the engine back together.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3382_zpsooe7yxjh.jpg.html
Hopefully that's the end of your troubles, nice write-up.
You put some work into this build. I like it!
Always nice to see a turbod 5sfe.
hopefully the FIC works for you. I had nothing but trouble with it on my car. I ended up putting in a V6
sorry to hear about the fire. That really sucks, but you're not letting that set back stop you, which is good.
I once accidentally set a suspension on fire. Good times
Engine Build Up Part 2
Before I could put the engine in the car I had to repair all the damage the fire caused in the engine bay. This required me getting a new AC switch, replacing power steering hoses, dropping in a new rack-n-pinion, cleaning up the various burn marks, and replace the AC condensation hose.
Next, with the engine back together I had to mate it with the transmission then put it back into the car. That task is easier said than done.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3400_zpsg3gdeh27.jpg.html
I spent a good 2 hours with the engine on the hoist and the transmission on a hydraulic jack while I tried to work them both together. After a lot of sweat, tears, and a smashed finger, I got the engine and the transmission back together. If you plan to do this, I suggest having a friend help you put the engine and the tranny together. One person can hold the engine steady while the other works the transmission into place.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3402_zpsxv1dg7dr.jpg.html
Now it was time to drop the engine back into the car. The hardest part was getting the front and rear motor mounts to line up one I got the engine in the car. But my baby was coming back together.
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Next I started hooking up the new ECU wiring harness, drop the turbo back in, install the radiator, install the alternator, and fill up fluids.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3407_zpsptn6dr7y.jpg.html
Then came the moment of truth. I turned the key and the engine turned over but would not start. I check all my connection but could find nothing wrong. Then I found a forum on 6gc.net talking about the distributor being off 180 degrees. I took the distributor off, turned it 180 put it back in and this beast came back to life. I thought I was in for fun times from then forward. Man I was wrong.
keep it going
Now that the engine is back in the car, there was one last piece of fire damage that needed to be fixed, the hood. I did a lot of shopping around and I wanted a hood with vents to reduce under hood temperatures. I decided to go with the VIS Carbon Fiber Hood - Zyclone style. When it came, unboxing it was exciting.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3408_zpsxha57glx.jpg.html
Then when I put in on it looked soooooooo nice! I also added insulation under the hood so that the clear coat would not be damaged.
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I was also getting high engine temps so I installed a bumper vent to get more flow to the radiator and oil cooler. I think the intercooler sitting in front of the radiator was blocking some of the air flow. Plus, these New Mexico summers are HOT.
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So everyone sorry I have not posted any status on the car lately but I have some bad news. I was driving the car hard today and BAM, rod knock. This 5sfte setup is killing me! I need to change this thread to "5SFTE. . . DON'T DO IT!"
Before I get into that, let me pick up where I left off. After I got the hood on the car I finished the build. This was around September 2015. The build at the time was the following:
8 psi boost
T3/T04E Turbo
Turbosmart Wastegate
2.5 inch Magnaflow full exhaust
AEM FIC Piggyback
SSQV Blow Off Valve
460cc RX-7 Injectors
FMIC
Walpro 255 Fuel Pump
MaXspeeding Forged Rods
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3461_zps7caigxqi.jpg.html
I fought and fought with this set up. The car drove great but boost would only kick in at high speed which basically meant I only got to feel that push when I got on the freeway. Plus I was continually having problems with the AEM FIC piggyback. The car would idle great, drive great on vacuum, but once I hit boost the car's A/F ratios would shoot to 10.0. This is when I thought it was time to take a new direction with this build. In comes the 16G CT26 turbo and the Megasquirt DIYPNP standalone.
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Around Dec 2015, I get the CT26 turbo installed and I start to have a serious oil leak plus high engine tens on boost. At this point I am ready to set the car back on fire. I go through and replace the head gasket and couple other seals but the car continues to leak. By Feb 2016 I am out of ideas so I take it to my mechanic. He spends about an hour with the car and runs dye through the engine. The results, every seal is leaking, wtf! At this point I am tired of working on this motor and I was happy to find a mechanic that would so he replaces all the seals. I drive the car home park it for the night, wake up in the morning, the engine is leaking AGAIN!
I take it back to the mechanic multiple times before we finally figure out I have high crankcase pressures and it is blowing out my seals. He brings his "Turbo Guy" in to look and the car and points out the fact that I do not have any crankcase venting routed back to the intake. So I build a custom intake out of intercooler piping, move the battery to the trunk and the problem was fixed.
Below, before custom built intake:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_3956_zps4ivxdmm4.jpg.html
Below with custom built intake:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4013_zpsov6nxtad.jpg.html
I take the car out to the track in May of 2016 to see how it will do only to find out I still have a lot of work.
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Mainly suspension and the standalone ECU. The suspension is original to the car and the AEM piggyback is not working out. So I put some new KYB Excel G struts with some ground control coilover springs.
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I get that all installed and start tuning the ECU using the autotune feature in TunerStudio. My set up is now the following:
12 psi boost
16G CT26 Turbo
2.5 inch Magnaflow full exhaust
76 pin DIYPNP
Electronic Boost controller
SSQV Blow Off Valve
460cc RX-7 Injectors
FMIC
Walpro 255 Fuel Pump
MaXspeeding Forged Rods
Ground Control Coilers with KYB struts
TRD front lip (side skirts being modified to fit)
Wings West Spoiler
VIS Carbon Fiber Hood - Zyclone style
2 piston calipers from Toyota Avalon
The car is running great then just this evening while driving the car BOOM, rod knock. DAMNIT! I love the look of this car and I love this car when it is running but this 5sfte turbo build has been nothing but a headache! I should be out eating Honda Civics and other ricers for breakfast not dealing with a temperamental car.
I am at a crossroads right now. I have learned a lot about motors on this car and I feel I have the knowledge now to do a swap. I am stubborn, this car WILL run boosted. This is what I am thinking:
1. Get a 3rd gen 3sgte (Use the 3sgte ECU or my DIYPNP and swap in my 16G CT26)
2. Get a 4th gen 3sgte (Use the 3sgte ECU or my DIYPNP)
3. Do a 5sgte build (really not sure about this one seem like it could cost ALOT)
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I have taken some time to reflect on my rod knock issue. I think I have 2 really good choices moving forward.
1. Rebuild the current engine but go with low compression pistons, webcams, and a high flow oil pump.
2. Get a 4th gen 3sgte and do a swap since I already have a front mount intercooler set up on the car.
Any suggestions?
if you like turbo, go with a 4th gen engine. Proven engines, and becoming popular
there are several vacuum lines that need to be blocked off so that you dont pressurize the crankcase. I also had trouble with the FIC. my advise, get the 4th gen. the cost to rebuild the 5S will be just about the same.
Great read! Very unfortunate progress, but very exciting nonetheless. PM where in NM you are? I've never met anyone on here in 6 years that lives in NM!
I told a friend at work, who used to be a full time mechanic, about the situation I had with my car and he advised be to tear down the engine and take a look at the internals before making my decision on what to do with the engine. I decided to do that so it would at least be a learning experience on my motor. When I took the motor apart it was exactly what I expected. The bearing on the #4 rod had completely melted away and by wiggling the #3 bearing I could tell it was next. It looks like this happened from oil starvation on the rod bearing during a hard pull and the bearing furthest from the oil pump went out first.
I went back and read MrTurrari's turbo 5sfe write up again at http://warp.scl.utah.edu/mr2/Turbo5sfe.html. Given, he is talking about a 5sfe in an MR2 but it is basically the same thing. I came across a key thing I missed in my build from MrTurrari's write up:
"Oil Pump - Replace with a 98 5S-FE pump and shim the relief valve 1-1.5mm to get a higher pressure."
I was running a stock 97 oil pump with no shim. The 98+ Camry/Solara oil pumps have a higher flow. I told my friend about what I found. He asked me what shape was the crank and the rod in. I inspected the crank with a micrometer and found no damage except some oil burn marks. I also inspected the rod (remember it is forged) and it was not warped or damaged in any way just some discoloration from heat. I am guessing there is so little damage because I cut the engine and called a tow truck the moment I knew something was off. He advised to replace all the bearings (rod and main) and he said it was up to me but the rod should still be usable.
While I had the engine apart I decided to do some tranny work too. The tranny is original to the car which is now pushing 20 years old. I had the tranny cleaned, new seals, and inspected then put an LSD on the tranny. The shop that inspected the tranny said there was very little wear and all the gears worked perfectly. The LSD is on the left the old diff is on the right.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4074_zpsil6n5fzd.jpg.html
Here is the tranny all put back together and painted. It looks nice and pretty!
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I know a lot of people were against me keeping the motor but I have put so much blood, sweat, and tears in to this engine build to stop right before the finish line. So instead of doing an engine swap, I bought new seals, new bearings, and a 98 Camry oil pump (shimmed the relief valve). I reassembled the engine and put it back into the car and it fired up and runs like a dream. Before at idle, full warmed up, the oil pressure was dropping to 8-9 psi at idle, now it holds steady at 20 psi. It was out about $200 in parts, excluding the tranny work that needed to be done no matter what I decided, and 2 weekends of wrench turning. Not bad.
Nice to see you're giving the 5sfe another chance. My mr2 buddy just gave up on blowing up his couple of 5sfe so he went with a gen3 3sgte. Lol.
Just finished reading everything, glad to see you were able to save the motor and hopefully now with the higher pressure oil pump you won't have any more issues. Given the circumstances I think you made the right and least expensive choice.
You will absolutely LOVE that differential. I installed one into my S54 and it completely transformed the car. It is now a potent track machine and I love being able to use the 300hp whenever I want. Enjoy!
Just dont wheel hop or you'll bust teeth off of your gears... Ask me how I know...
poly engine mounts help... at the expense of smoothness I'm told. Personally I found that poly suspension mounts and sticky tires to be the biggest help without sacrificing comfort/smoothness
Also just be mindful and let off the power slightly if you start to hop. Don't try to ride it out like I did (I powered through wheel hop at the drag strip)
I just discovered a really stupid mistake while I was road tuning the car. My speedometer is off. Come to find out, I used the MR2 LSD speedo gear instead of the S54 open diff gear. DOH! While I was driving I saw the speedometer shooting up fast. Once it got to 80 mph, I knew something was off because I definitely wasn't going 80 mph. There is one of those speed sensor signs close to my house so I decided to drive past one. My speedometer read 55 mph while the sign was around 41-42 mph. I did some research and found out the MR2 speedo gear from the E153 has 30 teeth, while the S54 has 23 teeth. I do not feel like taking the engine back out and popping the tranny open again so I am looking to grab a speedo adjustment module. I was planning on upgrading the wheels and tires in a few months so I would need it anyways. Anyone have any suggestions on a good module? I am looking at the Dakota Digital one. Here is the link: http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/category_id=-1/mode=prod/prd126.htm
Now I am getting a weird ticking noise under load, it is not RPM specific. It happens I start from a dead stop or whenever I get on the gas but not when I am cruising. I have checked and adjusted my camshaft clearances and they are now in spec. I also dropped the oil pan and checked the rod and main bearing and nothing has spun or is damaged. I re-torqued the exhaust manifold nuts and the exhaust nuts on the turbo. What else could I check?
Video of the noise would help.
Hmm it's hard to say for sure. I've had similar sounds coming from the downpipe support bracket that mounts to the engine. However you did do a pretty extensive rebuild. I would pick up a stethoscope to rule out any head or bottom end noises.
https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Mechanics-Stethoscope/dp/B01BUJZBOO/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1473428784&sr=8-4&keywords=automotive+stethoscope
You shouldn't be hearing anything during break in, but odd noises are bound to pop after ripping the motor out. I've had things like axle bearing mount, downpipe, timing belt bearings, suspension, etc... make odd noises in the past.
Well, I am official fed up with this engine. The ticking turned into knocking and it is no doubt it is rod knock. I checked the engine with a stethoscope and that confirmed it. I am done with the 5sfte, time to get a new motor. I am going 4th gen 3sgte. It was a great learning experience but I am tired of the headaches of this motor. What did I learn from this experience:
1. If you are going to turbo an engine go standalone from the start!
2. Don't be in a hurry, rushing only leads to mistakes that can cost later
3. Go with a forged low compression bottom end from the start, you are going to want more boost, trust me!
4. Listen to the experienced folks on 6gc.net, they have a lot of knowledge and experience
5. Because of this build, I went from a person who had only changed spark plugs and drained fluids to a person who is comfortable with getting dirty with a motor and pulling an engine when needed.
6. Lastly, your engine is not some magical Initial D machine just because you worked on it. You need to treat the engine with respect and know its limits.
I am going to take some time off from working on this car. It will give me time to gather parts and get a master plan together for this swap. I am thinking I will pick this up again sometime in the spring. Thanks for everyone who helped me out with their knowledge. I will either update this thread or start a new one once I begin the swap. Below is the latest picture of my dead 5sfte.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4179_zps9qoifgbq.jpg.html
Sorry to hear about the problems, but glad that you see it as a good learning experience !
Overall, the 3sgte swap is pretty hard to beat and I think you'll love it when its all done.
Too bad it was a really nice 5sfte setup
Cool man, thanks for the tips!
Whatever you end up doing with the car; swapping or salvaging this motor, be sure to continue this thread! It was a good read.
I am shopping around for a 3sgte and I have a few questions I am having problems getting an answer for:
1. Does it matter if I get a 3sgte with an automatic or manual transmission ECU? (My Celica is an manual)
2. Which is better, a CT26 or the CT15B that comes with the motor? Everywhere I am reading they are very similar in performance. Does anyone have real world comparison of the two?
3. What are the best seals to replace on the motor before I drop it in the car? (I plan to do the rear main seal, oil pump seal, timing belt, thermostat, and oil pan seal at a minimum) The motor will have 50-60k miles.
4. Is there anything I should watch out for when picking my 4th gen 3sgte? Are there any gotchas that I need to be prepared for with this swap?
5. What is the resistor-tachometer fix that I keep hearing about?
6. With regular maintenance and the occasional track day how long should I expect the motor and turbo to last before needed a major overhaul?
I am hoping to pull the trigger on the motor some time in October, then gather the rest of the parts I need, and get the wiring harness done through the rest of the fall/winter. I will also be parting out what I do not need from the 5sfe since besides the rods and pistons, the rest of the engine is good.
1. The ecu is slightly different between the automatic and manual versions of the car. The automatic might throw a CEL if there are some specific automatic sensors that it looks for. Personally I would just buy the manual version.
5. You need to modify the signal to the stock tach to make it read correctly. There should be an old post about it somewhere.
6. I installed my 2nd gen motor in 2004 and have since put about 110k miles since the swap. They are pretty reliable as far as turbo motors are concerned. Just make sure your seller provides you with compression test numbers and startup warranty.
Keep in mind that with the 4th gen motor you need to fully rewire the harness, while a 3rd gen motor is basically plug and play with the exception of about 4 wires. I would personally go with the 3rd gen motor.
Thanks for sharing the experience.
Having performed an autopsy on the engine, were you able to determine the cause of the demise? Fuel mixture problem? Timing problem?
To answer one of your questions:
1 (auto vs man ecu) Auto ECU will throw CEL for transmission shift solenoids. You can install a few large-ish resistors to overcome this - you can find details in some Gen3 Camry auto-to-manual swap threads. No impact on engine performance. Yes, easier to go with Manual ECU in the first place if you can, but not the end of the world if you cannot source one.
Does anyone have any tips for cleaning and painting an engine bay? I have burn marks from an old engine fire. Now that the engine is out of the car I would like to clean some of that mess up.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4244_zpsvupaqmxm.jpg.html
I am really excited my 4th gen 3sgte came in today. I inspected it and it looks good to go. The only problem was they sent an automatic transmission ECU instead of manual. Oh well, it will still work. I guess a lot of other guys run A/T ECUs too.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4256_zps1vs5ogkk.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4257_zps1x7icmzx.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4258_zpsouvlqkhl.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4260_zpsab14a9mh.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4261_zpsgpyn2af8.jpg.html
Nice!
Some will argue that auto engines are better as auto tranny won't let you molest the engine as much. Of course, that's just one of the million factors in play, but maybe it's true in your case.
I got the valve cover off and the wiring sent off to wire gap. In the meantime I am going to swap the downpipes and replace the seals.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/Valve%20Cover%20Off_zpsla0hpump.jpg.html
Wow, you are relentless.. Can't wait for this write up. This is the swap I want to go with. Keep us posted. Good Luck.
I have started the process of breaking down the engine so it is ready to go once the tune up kit arrives from MR2 Prime. Below is a picture of the timing belt before I removed it. This will make it easier for me to reinstall it when the time comes.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4300_zpsheuhok1d.jpg.html
Below are some pics of the motor taken down to the point I need it to be.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4303_zps6ar9welm.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4305_zps9nd6oizq.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4306_zpsmehlr1ga.jpg.html
I removed the upper and lower oil pain, oil pump, and camshaft gears. I plan to replace the following parts for the tune up:
1. Crankshaft seal rear
2. PCV grommet
3. Valve cover gaskets
4. Water pump and gasket
5. Timing belt - Sun brand
6. Timing belt tensioner
7. Thermostat and gasket
8. Spark plugs
9. Lower timing idler
10. Oil pump o-ring and seal
11. Camshaft Seals
12. Convert to 3 inch cat-less downpipe
13. Light weight flywheel
14. Axle Seals
15. Magnet Oil Pan plug
I also picked up a JOBD to OBDII reader since the OBDII ports will output codes in JOBD format.
Keep up the great work!
I got some of my goodies in for the swap.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4308_zps1epbyp5x.jpg.html
There is my lightweight flywheel, 3sgte pressure plate, and tach adapter. I plan to reuse my SPEC Stage 2 5sfe clutch disk because it only has about 3K miles on it. The tach adapter will ensure my tachometer works with the new different tach signal from the ECU.
Just got my valve cover back after being powder coated. It looks good.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4311_zpsllviunpr.jpg.html
I got all my wiring back from Wiregap and it looks awesome! I started reassembling the engine and my goal it to have it back in the car by the end of the weekend.http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4371_zpsvqp6ivyb.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4372_zps6c1igast.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4373_zpsndtdmibk.jpg.html
Getting to the oil pump is a pain in the butt. There are 2 oil pans on this motor (upper and lower) and they both have different torque specs. I used a liberal amount of FIPG to make sure I would have no leaks. Also, the water pump is a tough on too. I got some blue gasket maker for those seals to ensure I had no water leaks. After double and triple checking my torque specs with my handy Snap On torque wrench, I think the engine is ready to go back into the car.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4374_zpslwlbnpo4.jpg.html
The wiring done by Wiregap fits great. You can tell they have done this before. Every wire was just the right length with very little slack. They even put the clips that attach to the intake manifold on to make it hang perfectly above the fuel injectors.
***
I was excited and ready to do this thing! I had the tranny attached to the 3sgte and I was ready to go.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4375_zpsqi3qdm2x.jpg.html
This turned into a tough day! I expected to be further along. I started the day with the idea that I was going to put the motor in the car and fire it up but that did not happen. The guy who powder coated my valve cover got paint into one of the bolt holes that hold the ignition coil in place. I started that bolt in that hole and within a couple turns it got hard to turn the bolt then the head of the bolt snapped off. DOH! I then spend the next 2 hours trying everything to get what was left of the bolt out. I ended up having to drill it out and re-thread the hole. After that I had problems getting the engine into the car because the 2 hangers for the engine are not lined up like on the 5sfe. This meant I had to fight with the engine and the hoist to get everything lined up straight. Good news is the engine is in and on 2 of the motor mounts, bad news is that it is the end of the day and I will have to pick this up in the morning. I hope I can have this done by the end of the weekend.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4377_zpslapr1bid.jpg.html
Got the wiring, intercooler piping and radiator in.http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4378_zpsalhnmfes.jpg.html
I have everything hooked up and the car will not start, I just hear one click from the fuel pump relay then nothing. Also, my stereo and my aftermarket gauges to not turn on when I turn the key to on (they are wired together). I am banging my head against the wall on this one! I have tested the battery and it reads 12V and when I attempted to jump the car the same thing happened. Does anyone have any ideas?
If it won't even crank, something is not getting the power. Starter is on an almost completely separate circuit from the ECU, so the car should crank under almost any condition so long as it's getting power. It may not start for many reasons, but it should at least crank.
Get your multimeter out and start tracing wires. Check fuses for accessories, maybe something is shorting somewhere. Check accessory power. Check whether starter relay is getting power, check Neutral Safety Switch, check power to starter.
Once you've traced where the power stops, remedy and try again. Don't rule out loose connectors or even ones that may not have been plugged in.
It's annoying, but not unsolvable.
Does everything work inside the car besides the gauges and radio?
I replaced the ignition switch and starter relay, still nothing. I started to think maybe it was the kill switch on the alarm so I checked it out and that is not the case. At this point I started going around the car with a multimeter. It is weird, I am getting power on all fuses except, on the AM1 and CIG&RAD. The ST and IGN fuses get power when I turn the key the appropriate position. Also, the ECU B+ (12V switched) pinout is not seeing power when the key is turned but the BATT pinout is seeing power. This sounds like something is wrong with my switched 12V power. I need to test the 100A ALT fuse because that feeds the AM1 but that one is a pain in the butt to test since it is screwed into the fuse box.
After testing wires then looking at wiring diagrams, testing wires then looking at wiring diagrams, testing wires then looking at wiring diagrams . . . . . . , testing wires then looking at wiring diagrams I found the main engine relay to be the culprit. I replaced the relay plugged everything up and SUCCESS! WOO HOO! The 3sgte came to life! I still have to put the rest of the car back together but for now, the engine runs. I will post a video once I get the car all back together and off of jack stands. Thanks for all the pointers everyone has provided.
Like a soap opera. Can't wait for the next episode. Great Job..
I have finally gotten the car completely back together. To finish off the build, I had a local machine shop cut, shorten, and solder my throttle cable. This evening I started the engine, topped off the fluids, and let the car get up to temperature. When I did that I found 2 problems. The oil pan plug has a slow leak. It looks like I will need a new crush washer and some teflon tape. The other issue is the fuel filter has a small leak. The leaks is not very fast but I have a new filter on order and I will not drive the car until I get the leak fixed (I do not want another engine bay fire).
I am also noticing the clutch feels a lot harder than before and I stalled the engine twice backing it out of the driveway. I am guessing the pedal stiffness is the new Exedy pressure plate I have paired with my SPEC stage 2 clutch. I am really excited to drive the car, see how it feels, and revs with the new lightweight flywheel. More to come once I test drive the car. Here is picture of the engine completely back together in the car.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4381_zpssahtobpb.jpg.html
I have been driving the car for the last few days to and from work and everything is working very well. The only issue I am having is that the car won't boost past 7-8 psi. I reached out to MR2 PRIME and the said that was the stock wastegate pressure and I need to add a boost controller. I checked the wastegate before I put the engine in the car and it opened at 7 psi like it is supposed to. I thought the turbo vsv would turn the boost up to 13-14 psi in 3rd gear and higher. This must mean my turbo vsv is not working properly. Does anyone know how to check it or does it just not work in a swapped car? The part number for the turbo vsv is 90910-12114.
Here are some pics of the car with the 4th gen 3sgte. It is running like a dream.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4385_zpsohxfpn4o.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4386_zpsyybj4f6f.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4388_zpsjvvwgkc5.jpg.html
Giving props to PRIME MR2, those guys helped me out a lot over the phone and I bought a lot of parts from them.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4390_zpsjzrbuln4.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4392_zpswpvsshlq.jpg.html
The FMIC give the car a nice smile!
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4393_zpsyg6eykwu.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4394_zpsgldodrts.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4395_zpslqzv85ij.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4396_zpsbjqnnsk3.jpg.html
My Magnaflow 2.5 inch exhaust.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4397_zpskajhi1n2.jpg.html
Boost on the steering column, water temp, oil pressure, and air/fuel ratio on the pillar.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4398_zpsga0lqmvm.jpg.html
Looks awesome, glad you get it running right!
Here is a video walk around. ENJOY!
https://youtu.be/dO9D_1jgr7U
I just went out for a little bit of spirited driving and OH MAN! This engine is crazy! I am only running 7-8 psi (stock wastegate pressure) and the car keeps breaking loose the front tires, especially in turns. I think part of it is the MR2 LSD I have in the S54 tranny because soon as the boost hits 5-7 psi I feel the tires give a little bit. This engine is awesome! I am afraid to turn the boost up to 15 psi where I want it to be. I guess it is time to save for some better tires.
Haha! I just turned the boost up to 12 psi today. Whoa! I am loving it. The CT15B turbo boost comes on fast and I like it. The only thing is that it shoots up to 12 real quick then levels off at 10 once I get to 5K RPM. I will play with the boost controller to get it set right at 15 psi.
Within the last few days I started getting a whine from the car whenever I push the clutch in but it goes away as soon as the clutch is fully engaged or fully disenaged. It even happens if I ride the clutch without fully disengaging it. Everything is pointing to the throw out bearing. CRAP! I just got the car all back together and now this. The sad thing is that this is a fairly new throwout bearing that came with my SPEC stage 2 clutch. If I had to guess, there is less than 2000 miles on this throwout bearing. Is the throwout bearing going bad or is it just going to make that noise because it is not an OEM part?
And the saga continues. . . . .
I was struggling with some engine heat problems with my 3sgte. The engine would run fine but any long stretches on the highway would cause engine temps to rise, not overheat but get a little warmer than I would like to see (around 215 F). I was scratching my head on this one so I changed out the thermostat (even though he one on the engine was brand new), went from my 2 row radiator back to a stock one, and put the stock radiator fans back on (I was using an aftermarket shroud and fans before). Then the problem went away. The car ran fine and temps would bounce between 195 and 205 F. I made all those changes about a week ago.
Fast forward to yesterday and I had the intercooler coupler close to the turbo pop off after a hard pull. I thought, no biggie, it has happened to me before. I replaced the T-clamp and everything was fine. The interesting thing was when the intercooler pipe came loose, it sprayed oil all throughout the engine bay. At first I thought the turbo seals were leaking but after taking a look inside the intake, I found it to be blow by from the crankcase vent routing back to the intake. I ordered a catch can last night and thought that was all I would need.
Then today, I decided to take the car for a spin on a couple back roads. I did a couple short pulls and the car was doing great for a while. Then the engine temps started to rise like the problem I was having before. I turned the heat on full blast and it helped. As I turned around to take the car home, then engine started knocking. Crap! I have heard that sound before on my 5sfte. The knock quickly turned to a banging and then I pulled over and cut the motor.
I think I got a bad 4th gen 3sgte (bad head gasket and worn piston rings). I was only running 14 psi and when the car started overheating and knocking. I wasn't in boost and I have put a total of 1000k miles on this motor since the swap (did my first oil change at 500 miles to make sure any crap that had settled in the motor was out). Also, the engine has a 7k RPM redline and I never went over 6k on the rpms. I am so frustrated with my 6th gen Celica. I feel like I am at a crossroads here with this car. I am thinking of going one of 4 ways:
1. I have an e-mail out to the company that sold me this motor because it is BS that this motor died so fast. I am hoping they will be able to work something out to get me another motor or refund.
2. If #1 does not work, after a little bit of a break, I am thinking of rebuilding the motor with all forged internals and ARP head stuts so I will never have to worry about rod knock again. I still have my 5s block so maybe a 5sgte????
3. Or if I do not feel up to doing #2, get another 3sgte and swap the wiring over.
4. Last choice is to sell the car as is. Someone else can get a 4th gen 3sgte, swap over the wiring and have a good running car with some decent supporting mods.
Let me know what you guys think. Oh yeah and Happy New Year!
It's really hard to kill a 3SGTE. They can take a beating all day long in triple digit heat without issue. I boost 20+ psi on my 3rd gen and bang through the gears at 7k on my commute to work. I've been doing this for the past 40k....These engines are STRONG
In my opinion your engine was knocking and you didn't realize it. The reason I say this is because a common symptom of knock is rising coolant temps. knock breaks through the thin insulating film in the combustion chamber and exposes the cylinders to the full heat combustion, thus raising temps.Don't believe such an insulating film exists? ask yourself how an aluminum piston doesn't melt during normal driving...
Also the stock cooling setup can handle the 3sgte no problem. So considering you replaced everything and yet the temps still rose, I'd say knock was dumping heat into the system. Knock also puts crank and connecting rod bearings through hell, leading to similar damage to oil starvation.
It look like you know what you're doing, and I'm not insulting the quality of your build. I just want to convey that knock can be sneaky and lead to a situation like this.
Thanks for the information. I am wondering what was causing the knock. I have been running colder NGK BKR7E plugs and I was having heat issues even when the engine was set at 7 psi before I ran a boost controller. Like you said, it is hard to kill a 3sgte, and with me taking it a lightly as a did for these initial miles, I am really thinking I was sold an engine that was not well taken care of by the previous owner. Most people run 16 psi with no problems on these engines with the exact set up I have. I read that the PRIMEMR2 guys run into this occasionally where they get a 4th gen that is either dead or dying. Just my bad luck.
I know hindsight is 20/20 but I really wish I would have took the cylinder head off and inspected the pistons and bearings with a little more detail. Sure it would have cost me at a minimum a head gasket but it would have given me piece of mind. Looking back I did notice a dark yellowish/orange tint to the cams and cylinder head under the valve cover. That is a telling sign of a higher mileage or abused engine, maybe over 60K miles like advertised to me. Also, now that I think about it, the highest Octane around here is 91, could that have caused the knock problem? It may be something other than the gas because I was having heat issues at 7 psi. Like I said in the previous post, I was having some large amounts of oil in the blow by even while not on boost, is that normal?
I am really hoping when I pull the engine that there is not too much scaring on the crankshaft so I can get it machined. I am definitely leaning towards rebuilding the motor with forged rods and pistons. Even if I get another motor because I cannot save this one, I am going to rebuild it with forged internals before I put it in. I am not going to sit back and hope my next JDM motor was treated well before it was handed to me. But who knows, I am still not against selling the car and getting another project down the road.
I would definitely contact the company that sold you the motor. Regardless if it was an issue that they sold you, or something that occurred while the motor was in your possession, it doesn't hurt to try. maybe they will be accommodating and help you out. I had a buddy who bought a skyline that a company imported, blew the motor within two weeks, and they helped him source a new engine and rebuild at a discounted rate, so you never know.
It really sucks that this has happened after you've put so much time and effort into it. I'd hate to see you give up and simply sell the car though
So after a lot of cussing, kicking, and screaming, I decided to get back to work on fixing this car. I pulled the motor and broke it all the way down to determine what failed.
Mostly apart:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4493_zpsd1owgvh8.jpg.html
Cylinder head looks pretty worn and I am not liking all that black on the intake cam:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4492_zpsckryvcdw.jpg.html
The bare 3s block:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4497_zpsa9fncvyv.jpg.html
All the 3sgte parts:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4506_zpstf4eo7pq.jpg.html
Engine bay:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4507_zpsxv77fr6q.jpg.html
What I found was rod knock on cylinder #1. The rod was black from the excessive heat. I inspected all the rods and it looked as if the previous owner of the car either did not take care of the engine or there was more than 60K mile on the motor. When I opened up my 130K mile 5sfe, the bearings did not look as worn as these ones. Oh well, time to move on.
I decided to get another 3sgte instead of rebuilding the other one. I just got it in today and hopefully this time it will go well. Here is the 3s on the truck once I got home from the warehouse:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4502_zpspunr5mcl.jpg.html
Now on the ground next to the 3s block:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4504_zpsi27pmwxk.jpg.html
Another shot of the 2nd 3sgte:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4505_zpsqmnz6ot2.jpg.html
I will swap over parts that I replaced from the other 3sgte. Then replace the oil pump and rear main seal and drop the engine back in. My goal is to have this all done by the end of the 3 day weekend. (Deep breath) Time to get to work!
So I am part way through getting the motor ready for the car. It looks like the first 3sgte I bought was severely worn out. I figured this out when I took off the valve cover on the 2nd motor I got. Here is the 1st motor with the valve cover off:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/Valve%20Cover%20Off_zpsla0hpump.jpg.html
Here is the 2nd motor with the valve cover off:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4510_zpsfpqbiv7g.jpg.html
There is a BIG difference between the two. I found this write up on the Wiretap site that tells you what to look for in a motor and to determine its quality.
http://www.wiregapinc.com/2013/02/buying-a-used-motor/
As you can see the first motor has a lot of dark yellow and black coloration in the cylinder head which means the engine should have been rebuilt before it was put into the car. Less than 60K miles my a**!
On the 2nd motor it also looks like someone has recently replaced the water pump. The pump looks almost brand new. Score!!!!
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4511_zpsr1i6bbnj.jpg.html
I am finishing up replacing the oil pump and rear main seal then I will drop the engine back in.
I hope you were able to get at least some money/discount back on the crap motor... Sure, you can part it out, but that takes lots of time and good amount of effort before you see that money back.
Props on determination. Let's hope you've got enough karma points with the car by now that it will let you have some fun at last.
I feel like I have been here before. . . Oh wait, I have, the first time I did this motor swap. The clutch and tranny are attached to the motor and it is ready to go back into the car. Fingers crossed!
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4513_zps6ezu90du.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4515_zpseoxugm0d.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4516_zpszqh5bcgi.jpg.html
Good luck to you.
Perhaps it was necessary to immediately change the path for the connecting rods 3 gene.
What do you think?
I have the engine back in the car, here is a video of one of my first starts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wVM86aUXhY
Maybe I am being paranoid but when the engine is completely warm, I am hearing a very faint ticking. Does anyone know what it could be? I hope it is not another bearing.
Do not you have disassembled the engine before putting it on the machine?
Obviously, this had to be done. check the status of the pistons, rings, liners, rubber seals.
Before installation, set the valve clearances.
You just set it and run?
I dropped the upper and lower oil pan. Then I checked the bearings. All the bearings are in great condition. Phew! Here are some pics of some of the bearings. They all pretty much looked the same.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4525_zpszdfndo6p.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4524_zpsn90acb9j.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4522_zps5g92gxfl.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4521_zpsmy7c2rub.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4520_zpsl6cbfzg0.jpg.html
Once I get the bottom end back together I will check the valve clearances.
Why sealant black? At Toyota it is usually red.
That engine looks squeaky clean.
All you gotta do now is try to put it all behind and drive the hell out of it.
Every time someone comments on my driving style, my response is: I fix them hard, I drive them hard.
The car is now back together and running. I just finished burping the coolant system and plan to take it out for a drive tomorrow. I switched back to my 2 row radiator and got rid of the aftermarket fan shroud. After doing some research an aftermarket fan shroud needs to be 1.5 inches deep or else the radiator will not get enough air flow. I decided to mount the fans directly to the radiator because that is the best option if you cannot find a quality shroud. I noticed the car cooled down even better than the stock radiator with the stock fan shrouds. Also the fans kicked on sooner and moved more air than the stock fans. AWESOME! Here is a pic of both radiators side by side:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4527_zpsy6vkv9ht.jpg.html
So I have engine #2 in the car and running. Here is a pic of it:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4529_zpsnaz5szza.jpg.html
I decided to put an oil catch can on this motor so no blow by oil would get into the turbo and the intake. The catch can I bought has the option to be run either with or without a filter on it. What is better, a sealed catch can or one with a filter on top?
So I found this old thread on oil catch cans.
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=65248&st=20
It still isn't clear if a 3sgte should have a sealed or vented catch can.
I'm not sure if I have this topic completely understood, but here's where my thinking lies at the moment:
I would do sealed (and am going to when I to finally installing my catch can).
You have two hoses:
VC to manifold, with a check valve in between
VC to vacuum side of intake (after filter), no check valve
Under vacuum, airflow goes intake - vc - manifold. Vacuum is higher in the manifold than further up the line in the intake, so the pressure differential causes the air flow through the PCV system.
Under boost, check valve in first hose closes (so as not to pressurize the crankcase) and air goes VC to intake pre-turbo vacuum.
The second scenario is where most of the oil covering your intake and intercooler comes from (assuming turbo isn't leaking). Hence, I'm going to put the catch can on the VC to intake hose line.
Vents I believe are for either NA cars or older systems that were not closed loop from the factory. If you put a vented catch can on 3sgte you will have eliminated the vacuum pulling the crankcase gasses and would just allow the crankcase pressure release on it's own - a less effective system, if you ask me.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: Couldn't get it out of my head, kept researching. Turns out, if you "vent" the catch can to atmosphere, you'll have essentially created an unmetered vacuum leak under vacuum. Now, this would've been an issue with Gen2, which had the A/F meter, but probably has much less effect on MAP based Gen4. Still, something to consider for EFI systems.
Sealed catch can it is. Thanks for the help!
had fun reading this thread, sad to hear you are now selling the car but did you get both 4rth gens from the same company? looking to source a 3rd gen soon
I decided not to sell my Celica because I drove it with the top down over the weekend and fell back in love with it. Now I am looking into what little tweaks I need to make to get it perfect. I just order an electronic boost controller. It is an Innovate Motorsports SCG-1. I decided on that boost controller because it allows me to tap into the RPM signal and control the boost based on RPM so I can reduce spinning the tires. Also, it combines my AFR and boost gauge into one so I can get get rid of the gauge on the steering column. I do not like how the steering column gauge blocks the tach. I also see an upgraded CT15 turbo, 5 gear Camry swap, and some good wheels and tires in the near future.
I am not sure if it is a good idea, but I am thinking of holding onto the block, crank, and possibly the cylinder head off the bad 3sgte. It would be good for spare parts plus I am throwing around the idea of using it to build an engine with a forged bottom end. This will let me build the engine without having a lot of down time for the car. What to you guys think?
With as much time and work you've put into the Celica you're really better holding onto it. If you want a RWD track rat find a Miata for two grand or so and then you don't have to worry about it unlike the Celica you have a lot into.
As far as holding onto the other parts that'd allow you to build another motor and swap them over the weekend, then you can sell the motor in there now after doing such. Could even line up selling the engine beforehand and you could take interested serious buyers for a ride in the car to show it's a good running engine.
Well best case scenario keeping the spare motor allows you to build on the side and swapping an engine for one just like it is straightforward so downtime could be nearly nonexistent, plus you can sell a whole running motor instead of parts. Really if you want to minimize downtime it's the only way to do that, so yes if it were me and money allowing that's what I'd do anyway.
Yeah I know what you mean about not fitting into a Miata. I'm only 5'10" but my shoulders measure 21" across and I'm knot kneed, so my left shoulder and knee were always buried into the door panel but that's easier to cope with than your head sticking through the top I suppose. The Mazda B6 and BP are good motors as well and are very reliable, so that's more of a wash in that regard but undoubtedly the 2JZ has more power potential. I too was looking into the SC300 but finding 1/3800 with a factory 5-speed is a royal pain and I just couldn't be bothered with swapping an auto car due to time, space, and physical constraints. The Z32 300ZX is another good car as well and I saw you already mentioned it.
glad you're keeping it. I've been reading this thread and rooting for you the whole time. I wanna see you succeed just as much as u do.
besides, it's a celica, it won't sell for much, especially with all the money you've thrown into it.
for RWD, aside from my 1st gen celicas, I would love to have a 2jz cressida.
Everyone, thanks for all the encouragement. This has definitely been a tough project.
The VG30DE is a good motor, and so is the VG30DETT for that matter, but I've read where if anything goes wrong with the VG30DETT it's almost always an expensive fix and if you need a rebuild you're multiple thousands of dollars for even something basic. The biggest issue with the Z32 and most any car are ignorant owners that don't take care of them properly. When I was looking into them I was looking at N/A models, only way to get a hardtop anyway, but I would've been fine with mid 200's hp at the flywheel and there's always Procharger for easy power if so desired. I'd love one that's been LS swapped though once you get into stuff like that I'd be more keen to swapping a FC RX-7 I think. Each car has their pros and cons and it's hardly ever clear cut on which is best. If you're wanting high power that's reliable and don't want to delve into involved swaps then the SC300 is probably the way to go.
I got my Innovate SCG-1 Boost Controller in last Wednesday. Here is the un boxing:
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4624_zpsnq6bq3aw.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4625_zpsbhbgipbk.jpg.html
I just finished removing my old wideband O2 and boost gauge and installing the Innovate gauge. I looks pretty slick. I like how you can configure all the settings from the gauge or from a laptop. I did it on the gauge this time but I connected a serial port for the computer option in the future.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4640_zpszsmp8auk.jpg.html
I really like how this eliminated one of my gauges. I had my boost gauge on the steering column and I did not like how it partially blocked the view of my tach.
So I have been playing around with my electronic boost controller, trying to get the setting right. I am shooting for a stable 12-13 psi to start. There are some good windy roads (lightly travelled) that are not that far from me so I used those to get everything dialed in. I ended up setting my wastegate duty cycle to 28% and my gain to 20% and it hits 12.3 psi every time. I may have to play with the gain a little more because once I go over 5K rpm, the boost drops into the 10's. That should be an easy fix.
Now I have another problem, now that I am running more boost, under full throttle, in 2nd gear my tires won't hook up and they struggle to hook up in 3rd gear. It is crazy because it feels like the front end of my car is ice skating. I knew this was coming with me sitting on stock wheels and tires. I guess my next purchase will be some wheels and tires. After talking with a couple people on this forum, I am looking to grab some 17 x 8.5 + 35 offset rims. I really like the way 17 inch rims fill our cars' wheel wells. I am still unsure about the tires but I want something I can daily but will do well when I push them. A couple people have given me some recommendations on tires so we will see.
I currently have 275/40-17 BF Goodrich Sport COMP-2 on 17x9.5 front and back on the Firebird and they do pretty well for daily driver use year round, but Alabama winters usually at worst drop into the 30's though I imagine that's probably the case in New Mexico as well. Great dry traction, good in the wet, and ride nicely. Cooper Zeon RS3-S are another good tire, I've heard good things about the Continental Extreme Contact DW as well. Rather or not any of those are in the size you need I don't know, but I can recommend the Sport COMP-2's and RS3-S off first hand experience and I'd consider the Continentals based on what I've seen. Between the COMP-2's and RS3-S the COMP-2's seem to grip better with it cold out by a fair amount and warm up faster but the RS3-S is a little quieter, both summer tires but the RS3-S really means it and personally I'd go with the COMP-2 between the two in a year round tire.
The function you want is boost by gear, but it doesn't looks like the SCG-1 supports it. You'll have to tune the nut behind the wheel, and calibrate the amount of lead in your right foot
Grippier wheels solve a lot more problems than they introduce - definitely a worthwhile trade for any enthusiast.
well if you're getting new tires/wheels anyways, you might as well burn up those old ones and be sure to take a video too.
I've been really happy with mine and how they've performed since I got them back in June or so? Of course I can still break traction easily if I choose to do so, but that's where throttle control comes in. Easing into the throttle I don't have any problems, even in the cold or rain. The steering feel, handling, and braking with them is also great. The only complaint I've heard about them is people say they're noisy, but I really haven't noticed anything appreciable and my exhaust is nearly silent when idling down the road.
So I have been enjoying the car with the swapped motor. I have been driving it almost everyday. It is like having a new toy. My daily driver is definitely getting neglected. I sent a question to PrimeMR2 about how much boost I should run since I am only able to get a hold of 91 octane. Every dyno chart I have seen with a 4th gen running 17 psi has been on 93 octane or higher. They responded with the following:
"You can run 14 psi on 91 octane. You can run 17 psi if you add some octane booster to each tank."
Good to know because if I ever went up to 17 psi on 91 octane, I could have caused some damage to the motor. For now I will stick with 12-13 psi, that is more than enough for now.
Check the Sunoco Fuel site for any Sunoco stations near you since they'd have higher octane fuels available. Personally I'd stay around 14 psi then as well if you only have 91 readily available, I don't trust off the shelf octane boosters.
After spending last weekend on the track losing traction all over the place, especially in the curves I decided to order some wheels. I went with a 17x8 with a +35 offset. I am looking to put some 245/40/r17 wheels on the car. After seeing all you guys input, I am looking to put some BFG Comp 2s on the car. I am just wondering if I should go with the all-seasons or the sports. The sports look like they put more rubber to the pavement but I am worried about what will happen driving in the wet. I plan to track this car once a month through out the spring, summer, and fall, but I also drive it 1 to 2 times a week on the streets. What do you guys think about my tire selections?
With 275/40-17 Sport COMP-2's on 9.5" wide rims all around I have no problems in the rain and that's in a RWD car with a solid axle, of course I also adjust to the driving conditions as well. The only thing on the tire selection is I'm trying to remember how wide you can go on the Celica without rubbing, all else fails 215/45-17 would be a safe option. You only put down as much rubber as there is rim to push it down anyway, honestly the only reason I have 275 is they came with the rims but when I go to replace them I'll probably do 255/45-17 to remove some of the sidewall bulge.
It's a summer performance tire, and really it's fine with the mild Alabama winters even. The Firebird is a daily driver rain or shine and the Sport COMP-2's are the best tires I've used personally. They don't have a stated mileage warranty but from what I found most people get at least 20,000 miles out of them if rotated. Most summer performance tires regardless of brand don't have a stated mileage warranty for whatever reason, but I suspect it's because they expect most will abuse them and then try to claim a refund when they don't last the stated amount. The only summer performance tire I've seen with a mileage warranty is the Cooper Zeon RS3-S and Michelin Pilot Super Sport.
Don't get all-season tires for track - you'll be disappointed very soon. They won't hold up very well once you start getting a little quicker around the corners and putting some heat in them.
I put a set of brand new Goodyear Eagle F1 all-seasons, and wiped off nearly a third of the thread - and that was my first track weekend.
I then upgraded to GoodYear Eagle F1 summer tires, 300 thread iirc, and they lasted me good 5-6 track weekends with some street driving in between. I remember that I went for these specifically because they were rated well in the rain, which was a concern of mine.
I now have to purchase new tires, and I'm not sure if I want to go for 200 threadwear set. I think I'll end up getting something similar to the Eagle F1's I had - I am very pleased with what I got out of them.
Also, don't get a tire wider than what's intended for the rims you have - I have 225 tires (rec 7.5 rim) on 7" rims, and they suck when it comes to changing direction. I can literally feel as the rims roll over to the other side of the tire. No such issue with 215's.
Finally, you may not be thinking of this yet, but with stickier tires soon you'll have to address your brakes. I overheated HAWK HPS pads on about my 3rd track weekend (I'd like to believe due to me getting faster). Then switched to EBC yellows and by my 8th track weekend they no longer hold up to my driving skill (or maybe lack thereof is the real problem here, but I digress). This is with stock-ish 5SFE, 275mm rotor, dual piston calipers. Now I'm looking into brake cooling solutions and bigger bbk.
Hope this helps.
UPS just dropped off my wheels. They look sweet! I cannot wait to get them on the car.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4748_zpsybtf5wye.jpg.html
I got the wheels and tires on the car and they look amazing. I went with a 17x8 +35 wheel and it fits perfect. As for the tires I went BF Comp 2 Sports 225/45/R17. Here is a shot with the wheels on the car.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4751_zpspfgc8lql.jpg.html
Front wheel
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4753_zpsnbehavhm.jpg.html
Rear wheel
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4754_zpsjbqqfhbx.jpg.html
The car is riding a little high so I will need to adjust my springs to get a better look. I am glad the wheels fit with no rub.
Wooooo fitting! I bet it handles a lot better now.
That's good, I noticed a big improvement in handling and acceleration as well after going to the Sport COMP-2's. Should be more fun on the track now too.
The next upgrade I am looking to do is with the turbo but it is still a few months down the road. I am tossing around some ideas. I love how quick the CT15 spools but I hear I can get more power out of an upgraded CT20 or CT26 but I may lose some of the low RPM spool. Here are the options I am looking at:
1. Get the CT15b turbo upgraded by PrimeMR2. They have a stage 2 turbo upgrade that will add quite a bit more power per pound of boost.
2. Get a CT26 and upgrade the compressor wheel
3. Get a CT20
If there is another option please let me know. I am not a big fan of the T3/4 turbo upgrade because I have tried one on my 5sfte build and I did not like the lag. Also, I have a 3sgte gen 3 exhaust manifold from my 5sfte build so I can use it if I switch to a different turbo.
Once I get that done would it be beneficial to go from my 2.5 exhaust up to a 3 inch exhaust? My current exhaust is a 3 inch cat-less down pipe to a 2.5 inch exhaust with a high flow Magnaflow cat, glass pack resonator, and Magnaflow muffler. Here is a shot of the rear of the car with the current muffler.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4766_zpsk56rhfrm.jpg.html
Exhaust from underneath the car.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4627_zpsur02h0ah.jpg.html
Thanks for the help.
After doing some research, I found only one issue with my exhaust set up for my goals. My goal is to eventually get this car to around 300 horsepower, any more than that will be too much for a FWD car. The one issue is that I change need to change my offset to center magnaflow muffler to a straight center to center muffler. This will get rid of any obstructions in my 2.5 inch full exhaust. According to the following webpage a 2.5 inch exhaust is good for up to 300 hp before it becomes a problem.
http://www.koracing.net/viewarticle.php?article=7
I am thinking of going with an HKS muffler.
Since you have the cat and glasspack you could see how it sounds without another muffler first, if it's not too loud and sounds good consider it weight and money saved. Being it's also turbocharged I wouldn't think it'd be that loud.
There's a lot of ideas going around on 2.5 vs 3 in exhaust. I've read too much of it, and my opinion on it all comes down to this: the HP losses, whatever they may be, for 2.5in exhaust are not that great, and I wouldn't make it a priority to go with 3in exhaust, esp if you already have a functioning 2.5 in setup. If you're trying to squeeze every last bit of juice out of it, sure, but it looks like there are plenty of other upgrades to occupy yourself with before new exhaust is going to be worth your money.
Just my 2 cents.
So it has been a little bit since my last update. I was having problems getting my photos to upload but here is what is going on:
I was having some problems with keeping the engine temps down when the AC was running, you can find more details on the following thread.
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=97574
While I was in there doing work to the radiator and condenser, I thought to myself, I should fix the exhaust leak at the manifold, while I am in there (famous last words). I was having a slight ticking noise when the engine was cold that pointed directly to an exhaust leak. I took the turbo off and of course one of the studs snaps off inside the cylinder head right where the exhaust leak was. That explains my problem.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4782_zpsy9ri7g6e.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4783_zpsjt9qouby.jpg.html
Hmmm! I wonder where the exhaust leak was coming from?
I attempted to drill out the stud and only made the problem worse when my bolt extractor broke off inside the stud. DOH! So I had to take the head off and take it to the machine shop. This also meant I would need a new head gasket, water neck gasket, exhaust manifold gasket, and intake manifold gasket.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4801_zpsr3ho6a5v.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4802_zpskoyfwlw7.jpg.html
I decided to pull a late night and get the cylinder head off the engine.
Luckily the machine shop I use was able to turn around and have the cylinder head back to me in a day. To make sure the head would reseal to the block, I had the bottom cleaned and skimmed to be flat.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4803_zpsuygxmg9w.jpg.html
The next problem I ran into is that I had to wait for 2 weeks for a head gasket because since it is a JDM only engine, there is no way to get them in the US and the only distributor was on back order. The head gasket just came in yesterday to so more updates to come.
Oh for ****s sake that sucks.
Why you no port and polish while waiting?
It's always something, hopefully between fixing the exhaust leak and everything else will have more stable operating temperatures.
My Brian Crower camshafts just came in today. I plan to drop them off at the machine shop tomorrow. I need the camshaft sensor tooth moved from the stock intake cam to the BC aftermarket one. These cams definitely have a little more lift and duration, I can tell by just comparing the lobes. Here are some pics of the stock intake cam next to the aftermarket one.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4813_zpsa4zeindu.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4814_zpsotz7bbe8.jpg.html
Any time I have to deal with any exhaust bolts, I dread the job long before it begins and spray everything with penetrating fluid for a few days before removal, use impact tools, go slowly. The only way I've tried where no bolts suffered. Go at them dry, or with hand tools, and there's about 20% chance of broken bolts.
I haven't had much luck with removing broken bolts from cast aluminum housings (head, transmission). Seems like once those steel bolts dig into aluminum, they aren't coming out - drill 'em out and put thread insets in. My collection of thread insert sets has grown over the years...
I finished getting my car back together and on the road. I spent Saturday night breaking in the new BC camshafts. I started the car and rev'ed it to 2K rpm then moved it up and down between 2 and 3K rpm for 25 minutes. Then Sunday morning I did the exact same thing with the break-in again just to be safe. After that I changed the oil filter and put the rest of the car back together. Then Monday morning I did the break-in stuff one more time before taking it out for a drive.
The car drives awesome! I really notice the difference with these new camshafts. First, I ran it on stock spring pressure (7 - 8 psi) for a little bit and it felt more like 10 psi on stock cams. When I finally turned the boost back up to 13 psi, OH MY GOD! The engine pulled really hard on boost. My butt dyno went through the roof on that pull. I need to get this car to a tuner so I can get some actual dyno numbers. I did notice the car is a little bit louder with the new cams, I am guessing it is because of the extra lift and duration.
Also, no more exhaust ticking and the heat issues have gone away so far. This came together just in time for the next local track day this Sunday. It will be a good time!
It's normal for a "bigger" cam to be louder with nothing else being changed. Good example being your domestic V8s where just a cam swap makes a huge difference in the exhaust tone and volume.
Look forward to the dyno numbers.
I retarded the exhaust cam by 3 degrees. I read on the MR2 forums that, that will add some more hp on the 3rd and 4th gen 3sgte's.
So I had a little bit of a scare today. I have set up a dyno session for my Celica a week from this Friday and I want to make sure everything is good for it since I will be busy until then. I also really beat on the car hard on the track day and I want to make sure everything is still in working order. During the track day over the weekend my car started to develop a lumpy idle. It must have come from me retarding the exhaust on my aftermarket camshafts.
First, rented a compression tester from AutoZone and did a test. The results were 85 to 90 psi across all cylinders. AHH CRAP! I started to do some research and found that aftermarket camshafts with more duration can cause low compression but not like I was seeing. Next, I decided to adjust the exhaust camshaft back to zero and take it out for a drive. It drove like a dream, no misfires or issues. I decided to do another compression test and the same result 85 to 90 psi across all cylinders. At this point I knew it was not the car but the compression tester because by advancing the timing back to zero I should have seen compression go up. Finally, I took the compression tester back to AutoZone and bought a brand new one (I needed one anyways). I ran the compression test again and 150 psi on all cylinders, now that is better!
When I got the engine a few months back I did a compression test to verify the engine was good even though the seller sent me a video compression testing the engine. It came in at 170 psi per cylinder, that got me wondering, why the drop in compression? The answer is the BC camshafts I just installed. This little scare got me reading more into camshafts and I found that the more the exhaust and intake camshafts overlap the lower the dynamic compression which leads to a lower compression test. This is because the combustion chamber is completely sealed for a shorter period of time. I decided too compare the specs of the stock cams vs the aftermarket ones.
The stock 3sgte camshafts have the following specs:
Adv Duration: 256/256 degrees
Duration @ .050": 204/204 degrees
Lift: 0.335"/.0335"
The Brian Crower stage 2 camshafts have the following specs:
Adv Duration: 264/264 degrees
Duration @ .050": 216/216 degrees
Lift: 0.344"/0.344"
I ran the calculations on the stock camshafts and there is almost no overlap in the .050" range if the cams are set to zero. Based on the camshaft card that comes with the BC cams there is 12 degrees of overlap in the .050" range if the cams are set to zero. This means that both the intake and exhaust cams are open at the same time for a lot longer. I also read that overlap in camshaft timing leads to more high RPM power in boosted engines so by me running the exhaust camshafts retarded by 3 degrees I was adding more overlap which was shifting my power curve more to the right. I definitely could feel it on the track, once I hit 5000+ rpm, the car got this crazy surge of power that really surprised me. I was kind of awesome when that happened and all those little Miatas that thought they could pass me, could not keep up with me in the straightaways.
The problem with high rpm power is that it is fun on the track but not for daily driving. Also, on boosted engines there comes a point where overlap is bad because there is no free flowing exhaust like a NA motor. Since the track days only occur every 2 months, I decided to advance my exhaust timing by 1-2 degrees to start with and see how that will affect my drivability. It will shrink the overlap and create more low end power for the street, plus get rid of my lumpy idle.
I did not expect this post to be so long but I just started typing and here we are. Please chime in with any thoughts or let me know if I am completely off track.
On naturally aspirated V8's it's common to go really high on the static compression 12:1+ and then bleed it off with a large cam so the dynamic compression is somewhere in the 10:1 range. Boost also increases your dynamic compression but you knew that. Also yes in general the more advance the more low end focus and vice versa. There are some nice calculators out there online that take in all the factors like cam specs, boost, static compression, etc... and can tell you your dynamic compression.
I think I may be getting a little confused. I read the following:
Generally, advancing a cam gear opens a valve sooner, and closes it sooner... retarding the cam gear, opens the valve later, and closes it later... since all you've done is "move" the fixed event.
Advancing Intake and Exhaust : This will provide the car with more bottom end power, and will decrease top end. Advancing both cam gears will move overlap earlier but will not increase it.
Retarding Intake and Exhaust : This will increase the cars top end, but will decrease low end. Retarding both cam gears will move the overlap later and but will not change the amount of overlap.
Advance Exhaust Only : This will help the cars top end, and it reduces overlap.
Retard Exhaust only : This will help the cars mid range power, very useful for cars with big turbos / big cams. By increasing overlap, It decreases lag significantly. Doing this will bring the boost on all at once. Very common DSM modification.
Advance Intake only : This will increase overlap and helps the cars bottom end and mid range power. This mod will bring the turbo on all at once, although isnt a very common mod for DSMS.
This tends to line up with what I am reading on most MR2 forums about the 3sgte and BC camshafts. The BC camshaft card recommends installing both cams at zero and tuning from there. After some tuning most of the MR2 guys say that advancing the intake 2 degrees and retarding the exhaust by 6 degrees is the best place to start. They also go on to state that no aftermarket cam has ever done well in the zero position in a 3sgte. I am learning a lot about this and it is some pretty cool stuff. Comments???
Seems like advancing intake and retarding exhaust like they mentioned would be worth trying. Of course the thing to do would be to do a few dyno runs at different timing settings to see what works the best for your particular setup.
So this thread is making a little service, as i am in the process of doing a 5sfte on my vert. Ubhabe read many success stories for these as well. Is it really that bad of an idea, or can it be done safety? Seems to be many that habe done it successfully
Moral of the story, stop while you're ahead and go to a 3S-GTE. At least that's my take away from it.
I put in a nice 3 point front strut bar. I heard when you link the 2 strut towers together it really improves the cornering.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4877_zps7jopym1w.jpg.html
I went with the Beatrush brand and I am really happy with the look. I can't wait to see how it handles.
I took my Celica to the dyno and they did 3 pulls for me. Here are the engine specs going into the dyno:
4th gen 3sgte (stock bottom end)
264 Brian Crower Camshafts (1 degree advanced on intake and 3 degrees retarded on the exhaust)
3 inch custom made intake
SCG-1 Innovate Boost Controller
3 inch catless downpipes
2.5 inch exhaust with Magnaflow cat, Magnaflow muffler, and glass pack resonator
Stock CT15B Turbo
2.5 inch intercooler piping
CX Racing Intercooler
SSQV Blow Off Valve
Koyo 2-Row Radiator with stock fans
Stock ECU
See the photo below.
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/Rashaad_Andre_Williams/media/IMG_4885_zpscrowvjp4.jpg.html
The first 2 pulls were done with the wastegate set to 28% with a 20% gain. This gave the engine 11 psi.
After that we let the car cool down for about 20 minutes and then I turned the wastegate up to 44% for the last pull. This gave the engine 13 psi.
I felt I left about 10-20 psi on the table. I could have added more gain to try to get 1 or 2 more psi. In the end I did not want to push it and chance damaging the motor. PrimeMR2 told me it is safe to run about 14 psi on 91 octane and 17 psi on 93 octane. For these dyno pulls I ran 91 octane with some STP octane booster just as a safety precaution.
These are pretty good numbers. A completely stock motor is rated at 256 hp at the crank (approx 218 hp at the wheels) at 13 psi. If I am getting 238 hp at the wheels with the same boost then that works out to approximately 280 hp at the crank. A gain of 20 hp at the wheels with some basic mods and a stock ECU is pretty good.
I think tuned for 93 octane you'd be good for at least 300 at the crank.
If it's a return style fuel system then it mixes quite well actually!
Makes me want to buy a set of cams and install them to my Caldina... If only I had the money lol...
I forgot what forum I was reading it on, but there was someone who did a Megasquirt standalone on his 4th gen 3sgte. Once he got it tuned he picked up 40-50 more hp to the wheels with an all stock motor. This was done with a mild tune as well. I guess the stock ECU is tuned very very conservatively and I heard a lot of OEM ECUs are like that.
I have a Megaquirt DIYPNP ECU laying around from my 5sfte build but the pinout type is wrong. I have a 76 pin on it and I need a 122 pin. I got in touch with DIYAUTOTUNE and they sell a kit that converts the ECU to a 122 pin. The kit is the DIYBOB-N122 and the great thing is it only costs $89. That is way better than buying a whole new ECU. I will break the soldering iron back out and get to work. I love that once I get this ECU tuned it will open up a whole new set of options for upgrading the motor down the line.
Stock ECU tune is always conservative, gotta make it last through that warranty period. My brother's Genesis 2.0T gained 50 hp just from having the ECU uploaded with a new tune. Pretty much every car I can think of that's boosted from the factory, rather that's from a turbo or a supercharger, benefits greatly from just an ECU tune.
I am excited to see what power is hiding in this motor. To keep things clean on the forum, I will use my DIYPNP thread to document what I am doing. It is at the following link:
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=96250
Had another track day last weekend and the car gave me absolutely no problems all day. The new water to air intercooler worked great. My engine temps and oil pressure stayed right where it needed to be. I turned the boost duty cycle all the way down (8 psi of boost) and I was able to focus on learning the track.
https://postimg.org/image/d3azfnq6z/
My next time out I plan to turn up the boost to 13-14 psi and really do some damage. I love this 3sgte! The motor is very responsive and the turbo spools so fast that the car almost feels NA.
glad to hear you say this after all the things you ran into. now you really get to enjoy it.
someday hopefully I'll get to enjoy a 4th gen swap of my own. hahaha
A friend of mine has a YouTube channel and he filmed some of the track day. Here is the link with a couple shots of my car. Time skip to 1:30 to see my car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udtDYheFYg8
It's so.....quiet!
It's the quiet ones you have to look out for.
You will definitely pick up some power by going to a 3” exhaust but I wouldn’t even begin to know what kind of number to place on it. My suggestion is to keep your current 2.5” exhaust if you are happy with it, but get a 3” downpipe (if you don’t already have one) and a boost activated exhaust cutout. That way you still have your quiet and comfortable cruising but you get all the perks of a larger exhaust at WOT. Free flowing when you need it, silent when you don’t.
Between turbo, cat, and muffler it should still be fairly quiet. Here's an interesting page on the subject: http://www.koracing.net/viewarticle.php?article=7 Personally if it were me I'd just stick with 2.5" and put the money elsewhere.
Exactly, you hit a certain boost level and it opens up automatically to bypass the rest of the exhaust.
https://www.amazon.com/Loudvalves-Activated-Exhaust-Cutout-stainless/dp/B01C3CWKIW
I’m not necessarily recommending this one, as the description admits that you’ll likely have an exhaust leak, but it’s a good reference. I know Sound Performance has a good one but it looks like they’re out of stock at the moment.
http://www.spracingonline.com/store/category.php?sub=111
That's my plan she I swap a 4th gen, anyway. Keep the 2.5" exhaust from my BEAMS but run a 3" downpipe and a cutout, but electric cars boost activated is TBD.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/W1209-DC-12V-Thermostat-Temperaturregelung-Schalter-Regler-Thermometer-And-Case-/112240151477 would that run a fan for the intercooler? I wouldn't trust the on board relay but I think you can use it to flip a bigger relay for a decent fan.
Now that I am switched over to a water to air intercooler I decided to build a cold air intake to battle intercooler heat soak. I noticed that when I am at idle for a long time with the intercooler fan off that the intercooler water temps will climb from mid 90s to 110+. I did not feel like paying $200 or more for some company's cold intake set up so I built my own. I had some extra couplers laying around, some 3 inch intercooler pipe, and kept the existing cone filter.
https://postimg.org/image/hamc40lwd/
And here is a shot with the water guard on the filter. I can't have my 3s getting hydro-locked.
https://postimg.org/image/tnz6axbkt/
To me it's silly to spend what it costs on a big name brand kit, especially whens gains are usually negligible. Just make your own since piping is piping and couplers are couplers, then top it off with a name brand filter.
Exactly. I think it cost me like $70 for piping, couplers, and an AEM filter vs almost $300 for a K&N or SLP cold air intake. Yeah it took some more fiddling with I'm sure, but worth saving $200+ for probably the exact same end result.
I was able to find another CT15B for my 4th gen 3sgte. I was looking for one so I could get it rebuilt and upgraded without taking the car down for a few weeks during track season. I just got it in today.
https://postimg.org/image/z5wtvud3x/
https://postimg.org/image/sqxsz66e5/
I am planning to send it off to ATS Racing to get the "Sweet ct16" done to it. I am pretty excited! At 17 psi both ATS and MR2Prime are advertising around 320 hp to the wheels. It may be more with my stage 1 Brian Crower camshafts.
My concern is the wastegate. The problem with the stock wastegate is that when I get on it the boost will shoot 1-3 psi past the target then settles in at the boost level I am shooting for. There is no way to adjust the OEM wastegate, it is sealed shut, does not have an adjustable actuating arm, and it is welded to the bracket. I am wondering if it is doing that because it is wearing out.
https://postimg.org/image/s3yw9n9i5/
ATS offers a billet adjustable wastegate upgrade for an extra $200. You can chose to have a 12, 14.5, or 17 psi spring put into it. I am wondering if that is the best option because when they mean adjustable does that mean you can adjust the actuating arm or does it mean you can swap springs? Is it a 1 or 2 port wastegate? If I go that route I plan to get the 12 psi one but I am a little uncomfortable with my base pressure being 12 psi. It will make it hard for me to set up boost by gear when I go standalone with that high of a starting boost level. Is there an option to go with a Turbosmart 2 port wastegate? Then I could have a low base pressure and with a 4 port boost controller. Then I can multiply that by up to 4 times and get my boost extremely acurate. Which Turbosmart model would I need? Which bracket would I need for it? I am planning to e-mail a bunch of these questions to ATS but I welcome any of your thoughts.
I got the side skirts installed on the car. It really improves the look.
https://postimg.org/image/ngmeon10d/
This thread really helped me to install them.
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=37670
Too bad Photobucket has messed up the photos.
verts definitely look alot better with sideskirts on. looks great!
Now it needs rear splitters to finish the look.
You'll have to get ones for the Curren.
What about also having the intercooler fan RPM based so when the engine drops to low speeds near or at idle the fan turns on to prevent heat soak from even starting, in addition to a temperature control.
I am doing a conversion of my front headlights over to LED. These halogen bulbs are not cutting it! They are definitely too dim when compared to a lot of the newer car's headlights. I went with the Auxbeam brand and they look great.
https://postimg.org/image/ruatamnrx/
Right now I only have the headlights on LEDs but I am trying to find a good LED that will fit into the fog light housing. The only issue I had with the install is I had to plug the bulb in backwards because the polarity is reversed.
I replaced my bumper that I cut to s**t trying to figure out my engine heat issue. Come to find out it was not air flow but my A2A intercooler heat soaking and blocking air flow to my radiator. I decided to get another bumper that was clean with out any ducts. Check it out:
https://postimg.org/image/vreg0vv8d/
I made the decision to go back to a stock looking bumper after parking next to a Supra and seeing how clean that car looked next to mine.
https://postimg.org/image/93v5y5snx/
Clean Supra vs Ricer Celica
The beam on those LED conversion craps are awful, glare all over, lots of light where you don't need it or want it.
New bumper will look way better.
I was personally never a huge fan of the vents all over the place.
I was ok with the first two on the top, didn't like the lower two. I would say going for more of a sleeper look, but then the hood ruins that vibe.
Woo, much better.
I have been enjoying my 4th gen swap but with us being in the middle of summer the problem is with the AC on I almost overheat the car. I have been doing some research and the 100+ days combined with 4000 ft elevation and no humidity is to blame. I ended up ditching the stock fans and going with 2 aftermarket fans. One is a slim fan and the other is a Mishimoto 11 inch race fan (approx 2700 cfm combined). I also wired them to be controlled by my MS3PRO EVO. I would have went with 2 race fans but the passenger side of the radiator is too tight. Oh my God! It made a world of difference. Now on a 100 degree day my engine water temps never go over 208 with the AC on. Before, I would hit 220 so I would turn off the AC and the temps would come back down. My new problem is now the race fan blows on part of my intake that curves right in front of it before it shoots down to in front of the driver side wheel. This is driving intake temps up to 145-150. My question is should I route my intake towards the back of the engine bay or use reflective intake wrap on the current location? Also, the IAC for the 4th gen 3sgte pulls air from the engine bay at idle. Should I figure out a way to route it into the intake (before or after intercooler)?
So I have been looking at some different intake routing and this is my intake.
https://flic.kr/p/28nrA1vhttps://flic.kr/p/28nrA1v
That intake pipe that runs in front of the radiator fan is hot to the touch after a decent drive because of all that heat that the fan kicks out.
It looks like everyone else routes it close to the factory location under the fuse box.
https://flic.kr/p/26ZQG14https://flic.kr/p/26ZQG14
https://flic.kr/p/27gY38Nhttps://flic.kr/p/27gY38N
Which one of those is the best route?
If it were me I'd run the turbo feed down into the fender well in addition to reflective tape on the piping behind the fan and possibly a heat shield. As far as the IACV if it was designed to pull from the engine bay I'd leave it as is, though perhaps think of a way of adding a filter to keep out possible dirt.
It's weird that your setup got you a faulty start. I remembered my friend who was a moderator for a Honda forum board. We was doing stuff on our car's and we safely boost our car's on 7 psi. I know that this forum message board doesn't provide you with enough information but you can check out this other forum message board called https://www.homemadeturbo.com/ there best in the business. I think it was an admin or a moderator that twin turbo a 4 cylinder Acura engine that ran very well. But the twin turbo setup was later sold to someone on the message board. The engine was sold to someone else outside of the forum message board.
Oh yeah, I use to work at a Toyota dealership but I still receive employee discount from them. So if you guy's is looking to buy or search part's for your Scion car's like an FRS(which I have) or anything else holla.
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