new GR Zupra...... (redacted) its a BMW
Looks about how we all expected. Can’t say I’m surprised that they still haven’t released any performance specs. It’s definitely not going to be anywhere near GTR specs, just a little above 370Z. It’ll still be fun, but you won’t see me trading up.
I want to know WTF the car is really going to look like.
Either way, I won't be buying one because it's just a toyota badged BM-Fu@#ing-W
And I don't own german cars.
I think the current renderings are pretty close, based on the test mules and now the GR concept. I’d say the vents in the front bumper will be toned down but I think the sides and rear are spot on.
I hate the front, don’t mind the sides, and I like the rear end. The front looks like they tried to modernize the mkIV headlights to make them fit the new car, tried to design the front bumper to match the new Camry’s styling, then gave it a bulbous nose for no reason whatsoever. I guess the nose is supposed to emulate a Formula One car? I guess we still won’t know anything for sure about the car for another month.
man, even the forums are ready!!!
we need to have the forums ready with a section for GT4 stupid questions next year...
and for BOX, for an off topic GT4 not questions
I like the Viper roof!
I like the looks, only question is if it'll have a manual or not. Which I think it's best to think of the new Supra more as the beefed up FR-S/86 everyone wanted more so than an actual Supra successor, but if they give enough engine bay room to throw in a 2JZ then I guess you'd kinda get the best of both worlds in that regard. I'm just happy that Toyota is actually bothering to make cars that're fun again, and at the end of the day I think that's something everyone can agree on. Who knows, maybe a shared 4C or Evora could be the next MR2.
Yay BMW reliability...
One article I read quoted Tetsuya Tada as saying that even though the Supra/Z4 will be built in a BMW factory, they will not be like the Toyobaru twins and that the Supra will be much more Toyota.
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/geneva-motor-show/new-toyota-supra-get-450bhp-bmw-straight-six-engine
That being said, the Supra is traditionally powered by an inline 6, and who makes those besides BMW? So who knows, we might get an oil leaking BMW engine that got Toyota’s direct injection then detuned. Only time will tell.
BMW Supra. meh. pass.
Wish this was strictly a Toyota project. I hate the fact that Toyota has to go to BMW for this to shave costs. Like Toyota fashion, it's got a nice ass LOL.
It's official, Box likes stick. That explains a few things...
Fairly sure it was official a long time ago I only liked manuals.
I know, but any kind of retort acknowledging it just makes it look like I'm trying to hide something so meh took the high road and responded literally.
Though I could've responded with something to the effect of, "So what if I prefer to play with a stick than a slushbox?"
Why not both?
Because automatics take out any fun in driving for me, even if it were a newer one that shifts just as fast or faster than I can so it's not about shifting speed or being the fastest. If anyone else likes them or finds them fun that's fine, but I don't. There's just a feeling of disconnect between me and the car and I don't feel like driving it and just rather be a passenger at that point. I think a lot of it was when I was starting to drive I was overly cautious and nervous and would just space out to deal with the stress while driving, and all the cars were automatic. The first car I started to really drive and get comfortable with was a manual and it forced me to constantly pay attention and work through my nervousness, even now after 10 years of driving there are times I'll get antsy and having the manual keeps me from spacing out since it keeps me focused on driving and not on my anxiety. I guess it's a combination of what's fun and safe for me, so the world probably wants me in a manual just as much as I want to be in one.
As we draw nearer to the official reveal, we keep getting more and more information on this car and it changing my mind about it. I didn’t care for the looks of the FT1 concept and that still hasn’t changed. However, it seemed at first that we’d be getting maybe a beefed up 370Z. Now we know this car will weigh under 3,300 lbs, have the same structural rigidity as the LFA, lower center of gravity than the 86 triplets, and handle like a Cayman. That all sounds very promising to me. Granted, it still won’t run with the cars that it used to so I can understand why so many people are still upset about it, but the mkIV crowd still expects it to have 800 hp with the potential for about a trillion so they aren’t even giving this car a chance. However, it looks like it’ll have a BMW B58 engine so there will be potential for decent power. As of today, several journalists have gotten their hands on the A90 and the reviews are very positive, which is reinforcing my recent change of heart.
https://jalopnik.com/2019-toyota-supra-the-king-is-back-and-good-enough-to-1829117407
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/supra-coupe-2019/first-drive?ab=1
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2020-toyota-supra-prototype-drive
I'm still upset that they teamed up with BMW. Not a Toyota in my mind...
MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
At least it's return to performance and fun with the 86 and A90
I'd rather have them making more sports cars then more sedan and crossover variants.
Supra Utility Vehicle.
Well, what I wanna know is are they going to be putting 2JZs into production again? There's only so many left and I'm not going to be dropping $20K for a billet motor from down unda. What about transmission options? Universal transmission mounts/shifters, or will the 8987234-spd auto bolt up to the JZ block?
They should've made it easier to do an LS swap with a T-56 and call it a day.
Those drawn out posts I’ve made and I still haven’t addressed the transmission... No manual trans option straight up sucks. No defending that one, no matter how good of a trans it might be. This car definitely won’t be fast enough out of the factory to justify no manual option. And you know it’s only a matter of time before there’s an LS in one of these, which will be BA. Since it won’t have the legendary status of the mkIV amongst enthusiasts, and since a lot of people don’t like BMW engines, I doubt if many purists will protest V8 swaps.
I did read an article earlier today that said the Supra’s engineers haven’t talked to BMW since 2014. That’s four years of development that BMW isn’t involved in if it’s true.
Chee we could do halfies?
I still don't understand the lack of a manual when the Z4 has it, like seriously how hard could it be to offer it as an option? That's ok, I guess so long as it's easy enough to throw in a 2JZ and CD009(or whatever cheaper trans than the V160/161 that works) then who cares.
...would be cool if they threw a dogbox/PPG transmission into it.....
Fair enough. I'll keep it and drive it occasionally weekly until the meets where you will pick it up and drive me to the meets and back.
on point with the supra, i dont like it. it has a beemer hart. that sucks. let me swap a ford fiesta engine in my celica.
$60K! Holy balls... You could build SOOOOOO much for that amount of money. Financing may not be as easy, but you can definitely do much more for the money. Like you guys said before - if there's no standard trans available, you might as well buy a new Sienna.
With BMW power train it won't be about who gets to drive it or store it, it'll be who gets to pay when it breaks :rofl:
60K even gets you a decent enough turbo MKIV, which is what everyone wants anyway and options to finance them are a thing these days. Or you could build one hellacious SC300 for about half. I dunno, there are some that'll buy it I'm sure for the looks, that or the newness. Or like in most instances with cars even with cars marketed towards enthusiasts your enthusiast is still in the minority of ownership, so I expect the vast majority will buy it for the looks and features or maybe they just heard how good the (MKIV) Supra is. Since an actual enthusiast with money I can't foresee choosing it over a Cayman, Corvette, etc...
I guess I’m technically the first person here on the forum to buy a new Supra.
Dimensions not cartoonish, model 100% accurate to actual car.
Pssh, bought one on Gran Turismo Sport ages ago.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a25868740/toyota-supra-price-2020/?fbclid=IwAR2FH5frXqBPscCp6D9Wo9VEtKwSpq-Y781H04E2N3vSXEnt-QqQBd_F_is
So..... now that it's officially revealed, who's gettin' one? not me cuz I'm broke as a joke although I will gladly take donations via gofundme or just paypal me
Launch edition does not appeal to me because of the red mirror caps (why?!) and other red accents which just doesn't look good for a $50k+ car. maybe on a civic type r or subaru but not this. The interior looks so much better in all black.
I will have to say I like Phantom Matte Gray they offer.
Oh good god. Even the shifter & interior look like a bimmer. Couldn't try & make it a little more different? But same thing like the frs & brz. Whatever.
Hard pass.
I'd rather import a MKIV and spend 20k on mods.
There will be a mid-cycle refresh. That'll may or may not be better.
I like the gauge cluster and that's about it. I'm waiting to see what the Japanese companies can do with it as far as aesthetic goes.
Why would i ever want a BMW, It looks like a cross between the 86 and A Z from BMW
whats curb weight?
about 3400lbs IIRC
https://jalopnik.com/the-first-mkv-toyota-supra-just-sold-for-2-1-million-1831905825
WTF 2.1 mill for a bmw
2 charities got a million each, so the dude basically bought the car for $100K.
^lol, that's a marketing gimmick. that car's just gonna sit there and rot some more and draw people into the dealership.
whoever's dumb enough to pay that much for one is probably some rich collector that doesn't drive cars anyways and uses as a conversation piece at dinner parties. lol
i sense a lot of jealousy here.
the M2 competition with 405 hp in a 6spd or maybe the dual clutch sells for 60k....
https://youtu.be/z_7aTQzpIOI
For whatever reason, I can't stand that guy....
He talks like Chuckee2009 or whatever, also super annoying to listen to.
You know, I can actually stomach Chuckee2009 for his shorter videos. I just refuse to click on anything that EE puts out. Maybe I just know too many engineers like him, but even in the B is for Build SEMA video, when they're all hanging out drinking, I couldn't stand him.
And the jealousy goes on
Rev up your BMW Toyota!!!! Jordan loves Scotty...
BEEmeryota..... bada booom
Interesting.
https://youtu.be/_jbyzmtgU_0
all the video confirmed what i knew, its a rebadged bmw, toyota supervised, but bmw did all the work,
This new supra is a Geo/ChevyNova/Saab/Cavalier.
sad....
Did we watch the same video? Nothing in the video is confirmed as fact but it all aligns with what I’ve read from other sources with just a bit more detail. Essentially BMW built the B58, Toyota was dissatisfied with it and revised it. I’m certain that it’s still largely BMW but they wouldn’t allow various components to go into production. It’s been common knowledge for a while that Toyota did their own suspension and engine tuning, so don’t expect the ECU reflashes that BMW owners get to enjoy but Toyota have been saying all along that this car is more Toyota than the “experts” on Facebook say it is. This car is more Toyota than the 86 is. Still more BMW in it than we’d all like (timing at the back of the engine, really?) but we all know that the most conservative car company in the world isn’t going to risk their reputation of reliability over a low production sports car so it’ll be interesting to see what all they’ve changed. Crossing our fingers for replacing the plastic in the cooling system.
Let’s face it, we all want new Toyota sports cars. Toyota has no interest in building sports cars at all so without other manufacturers, we get nothing and if this car is the same sales flop that the mkIV was, we’ll likely never get another sports car for a long time, never mind one actually engineered by Toyota so we all need this car to be a success. I’m not saying I’ll be first in line to buy one but I’m not totally upset by the car either. Everyone is quick to forget that the Supra was always competition for the Nissan Z cars, never the GTR. Toyota was never ever ever going to give us anything even remotely comparable to a GTR or C7 Corvette, especially not something wearing a Toyota badge. This car was always going to slated under the RC-F so it’s surprising that it does the 0-60 sprint quicker than the RC-F. Some people like to point out that the RC-F Or LC500 should have been the new Supra but the thing is, the RC-F is a nice GT car, and the LC500 is just a pretty coupe and kind of awful as a sports car. Either one would require a ton of work to be up to the job that the new Supra does so I can see where Toyota chose to engineer the car alongside BMW rather than try to reengineer one of the Lexus platforms. There’s no doubt that it will be fun to drive, we just have to wait and see how reliable the car is.
Let’s be honest, if this car was badged as anything other than a Supra, everyone would be losing their minds over it. If the mkIV was re-released today exactly as it was in 1993 like everyone wants, it would be the laughingstock of the sports car world.
Didn’t mean to make this post so lengthy.
TL;DR, Toyota was not impressed with the B58 and reengineered parts of it, and we all need this car to not suck.
Burros & chariots are fairly reliable.
Finding out the differences of the engine will be interesting.
If I heard correctly in that video, the engines will be the same. Toyota just subjected the new designed BMW engine to the rigors of the Toyota durability validation process.
So it should be at least as reliable as a toyota engineered engine.
Toyota also closed the block for strength.
From a cost standpoint, it was cheaper to raid the BMW bin and tweak it as they go. If they went from complete scratch for EVERYTHING, you're probably looking at a car with a $100K price tag. New NSX isn't doing all that great with that 6-figure tag and that was built basically from scratch. R35 GT-R is at the 6-figure mark now as well.
I'm gonna assume the ECU is gonna be BMW with some Toyota touches.
meh....
Ill drive this in the mean time...
Nice! RHD MKIII
I like it!
it came with surprise gremlins, it was auctioned as inspected and ready. Im having to work on the car, sadly
What kind of gremlins? Nothing too serious, I hope.
really makes me wonder about these "inspections" that all these JDM cars go through. Gonna be fun to see GT-Four owners and what gremlins they'll find.
No headlights, no heater, no wiper, no spare tire, dirty air filter, and so on. Long story....
Fixed headlight issue. Next remove all Japanese crap unnecessary gadgets
New Supra ain't even out yet and they already swapping the 2JZ into them.
Has anyone else been watching the news for these cars? Looks like Toyota understated them again. 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, 1/4 mile in 12.3 seconds, 1.07g on the skidpad, all on street tires. Still not buying one because broke, but it looks like it actually will be a truly good sports car unlike the RC-F or lame (although beautiful) LC500.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27452748/2020-toyota-supra-vs-1993-toyota-supra-turbo-test-numbers/
And when adjusted for inflation, roughly $20,000 to 30,000 less than the Mk4 Supra cost too!
And when comparing current prices, it's the same or less.
If only they had a manual as an option, outside of that I like it.
I appreciate the specs, but it's just a BMW... I've watched a bunch of the new YouTube videos on the car and I'm still not convinced that I like it. IF Toyota revamps the Celica, I really hope they don't partner with anyone (other than Yamaha).
See but they already have platforms in house to make a new Celica though, just base it off the Corolla hatchback and job done.
so the rebadged z4 has 335 hp and the actual z4 has 380 hp. muhahaha funny !
is this true??? https://www.tflcar.com/2019/05/holy-horsepower-turns-out-the-2020-toyota-supra-is-way-more-powerful-than-toyota-claimed/
Yes, Toyota de-tuned the B58 to meet their standards of reliability and longevity.
They could do that too, but it'd be nice to see a new Celica and an alternative to the Civic Si.
Speculation is that Toyota may have sent out a 'ringer' to C&D, also that particular type of Dyno tends to read a little higher. You'd need to dyno many Supra on many dyno types to get a consensus figure for power and torque.
Probably because Mazda started restoring NA Miatas and making parts for the NA and NB again, you can buy a new hardtop from Mazda now for instance.
I think it'd be great if most manufacturers started making new parts for older enthusiast cars, since they can't give us an exact replica it's the next best thing. Though Supra aside the contemporary cars are better in every way over their predecessors.
But who is going to pay dealer prices for some of the stuff, Sure the A80 is an average 30k car, so its valid.
the A70 is an average 4k if not less car. and to spend top dollar on a fender, when you can get it used for less. that is when toyota will realize they will be loosing money.
The celica 6th gen, who will pay 2k for a new s54 transmission, or 200 for a fender. I hear people argue about paying 400 for a used celica lol..
Same as all people, wanted manual transmissions, and no one buys the car. People want, people cry, oh no the car will be discontinued, they want more and more and more, and dont want to pay prices for it. Want it cheap.
I get why toyota went with BMW to get the supra at a cheap price, but they also made it cheap.. If you cannot beat what you did 1 generation ago, dont do it again. Call it something else. The Toyota 86 was a good car, because it had nothing to be compared to, it was the first generation.
Call this Hybrid a supra, and not make up for years of not having a supra, and come up with a souped up Z4, lol...... At least we know toyota made the badges.
I love my A70, even tough it came with problems, and i paid premium for it, but its the best bang for the buck. 1jz engine, and not the A80 prices, plus flip up headlights.
new supra is not a supra. its a Zupra
I think we forget that it's just a select few at Toyota that want these kind of cars to be made, and to appease the bean counters and investors they have to make a lot of compromises. I'm sure most of the Toyota brass are more than content with churning out Camries, Corollas, 4Runners, Priuses, and Tacomas. So I'm happy that at least Toyota is trying again to some extent, I think for most the only real legitimate complaint is the lack of a manual when BMW is using one in the Z4(in Europe for now, but should get here with the Z4M). The only way for Toyota to have done it all mostly in house would've been to base it on the RC or LC and then try to get a BMW drivetrain into it and working, or they could've gave up using the inline six for the 2GR-FE but then it'd just been a redone RC. They could've taken what they've given to Lotus for it and supercharged it, but then had they called it a Supra then you'd have those crying for the inline six. You can't make everyone happy, but only offering a torque converter automatic in what's supposed to be an enthusiast's performance car was just stupid. It'd be like only offering a premier luxury car with a manual, even though that's what I and the internet will tell you the world wants.
Let me put it this way: $500 floormats and $3,000 shift panels say that Toyota reproducing A80 parts is a big deal. I doubt if the FWD Celicas will get too many parts reproduced. Toyota knows nobody would buy S54’s. But new OEM projector headlights, JDM tails, ST205 bumpers and hoods, those parts would be worthwhile to make another run. I get the feeling that MR2’s will get special treatment before ST205’s, and neither may get any parts at all. I’m still waiting for Toyota to make an official announcement of the heritage parts program and what parts they intend to bring back. Anything at all is better than nothing.
Nissan started the heritage parts program by buying back old 240Z’s and restoring them and followed with GTR parts. Mazda followed suit with restored Miatas. The market for a heritage parts program exists if Toyota chooses to invest in it. I’d send my Supra off to them to be restored in a heartbeat if they offered anything like that.
I can’t help but wonder, if Toyota did build their own Supra with no help from BMW, with 500 hp and a $100k price tag, would it sell? Toyota have created a certain stigma with the badge of being sensible and frugal. I for one would weigh my options before spending six figures on a Toyota badge. The GTR does well for itself but Nissan hasn’t pushed their boring cars the way Toyota pushes the Sienna and Prius in the US market.
you're lowballing on those floormats. lol I've seen them bastards go for $700-$1200 for floormats that were $150 brand new. ****'s insane. S1 shift panels are still available I think. It's that left panel that is discontinued where people want $500 for something that was $75 new.
I think what's helping the GT-R is the insane amount of performance it offers for the money, and it kind of gives something to Americans they normally couldn't get until just now. That being the "Skyline" or the GT-R ones anyway, since the G series is technically the Skyline now or whatever the Hell took its place recently. Plus if you wanted a new car(lease or pay to own) that was bonkers fast and Japanese it was your only option. Sure there's the NSX now, but that's super expensive.
Meh, here's to hoping they bring out a new MR2 that's a re-badged Elise that passes through U.S. safety regulations.
Dear Toyota,
Please remake 1st gen celica parts. That is all.
sincerely,
Firstname Lastname
This is more than I paid for my hunk o junk:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Celica-1974-1975-1976-1977-TA27-TA28-RA25-RA28-RA29-Banana-Tail-Lights/302903774986?hash=item468678cf0a:g%3a%44sgAAOSw0c9bsQX0
Sales on the new NSX has diminished to where they're offering $20K off to help sales.
Who is this ngo guy that talks like he has a zupraw. Lol.
That’s why I cannot consider buying an A80, priced at insane amounts. I’m happy with what I have. Heritage program may be good, if they had not destroyed the old inventory. Reproducing parts will be pricey, but then again, 1000 floor Mats? Lol
Sometimes I consider getting rid of it all and buy a Yugo.
^I've had the same thought, just give up on cars and get a Camcord like the rest of the world. Would make life easier since I'll never be able to afford the one car I really want anyway, so might as well.
Motor1.com: Three 2020 Toyota Supras Damaged In Transport Trailer Crash.
https://www.motor1.com/news/360361/toyota-supra-transport-truck-crash/amp/
"Low miles no rust MUST SEE TO BELIEVE no low balls I know what I have. 80k OBO"
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