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post Feb 26, 2017 - 11:01 PM
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Box



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Oh yeah I agree, my idea of fun is power from off idle to redline hence the Firebird. I will say the 7A wasn't anywhere as peaky or needed revved out as much as the B6 in my Miata, I could shift out at 3,000 and still get up to speed in a somewhat timely manner. The Miata I had to take up to 4,000-4,500 and then the Firebird I shift out at 2,000-2,500 but all that said I like all kinds of cars and drivetrains, though for a daily I like not having to rev it out all the time.


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2001 Miata LS 5-speed
post Feb 27, 2017 - 12:09 AM
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HardHead93

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I agree with you and Box, having an engine that you don't have to rev hard to get power is definitely nice. The sad truth is that any higher hp small displacement NA engine is going to have some trade offs. In your case, a 7afe hits peak torque at a lower rpm but it is not as much torque as a 4age 20v would hit at a higher rpm. That can be a big deal breaker if you are daily driving your car and need get up to speed quickly (like on a short freeway on ramp). I suggested a 4age 20v because if I were in your situation that is what I would do. I just think it is cool that a 1.6L engine can produce 165 hp, so what if I would have to rev the piss out of it, Hondas have be doing that for while now. I hope your build goes well not matter which direction you chose to go.
post Feb 27, 2017 - 1:01 AM
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I wouldn't mind a 6th gen ST with a 20V 4A-GE. Heck for awhile I was looking into cars like the 7th gen Celica GT-S and DC2 and DC5 Integras which epitomize the revving it out factor. Which you can always do all the handling and braking mods first then take it from there as to what you want to do drivetrain wise, really handling was the most fun thing about the Celica personally.


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2001 Miata LS 5-speed
post Feb 27, 2017 - 9:06 AM
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senick

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QUOTE
I suggested a 4age 20v because if I were in your situation that is what I would do. I just think it is cool that a 1.6L engine can produce 165 hp, so what if I would have to rev the piss out of it, Hondas have be doing that for while now. I hope your build goes well not matter which direction you chose to go.

Yeah, I understand completely. That's what's cool about swaps; you take a car that you already like and make it better in a way that best suits your own preferences. I agree that the black top is awesome in it's power/displacement, and if it were more readily available I'd consider it.


In the end, this will be my daily, and therefore be driven at an average speed of 25mph in all reality considering slowing down for stops, traffic, etc. I never got the appeal of high output engines (be they high displacement or turbo) in an environment were you constantly feel limited. I'm sure it's different in other parts of the country (and certainly world), but I would much rather have a less powerful engine and able to use all or most of its potential most of the time than have a more powerful engine and have to use a minimum of it's potential most of the time.
Even in highway driving, once up to speed it's all fairly static. At that point I'm much more concerned with MPG and smoothness.


QUOTE
Which you can always do all the handling and braking mods first then take it from there as to what you want to do drivetrain wise, really handling was the most fun thing about the Celica personally.

Exactly, and this is the most important as far as I'm concerned. Getting the most out of a modest engine by means of good suspension, brake and dynamics certainly has its own appeal.

This post has been edited by senick: Feb 27, 2017 - 9:06 AM
post Feb 27, 2017 - 3:16 PM
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I found the 7A really good for around the city style driving and meandering down the highway, even was able to get up to interstate speed in time for merging if you bounced it off redline. I consistently got 36-40 mpg on 87 out of it doing mostly highway driving. The only legitimate complaint I had was you knew when the A/C was on or not, and I'm not just talking about the cool breeze on your face either, that and passing power was mostly nonexistent. Outside of that and the stuck oil ring issue that seems to plague them it's a great motor. Truly and honestly if I bought another ST and I had no reason to go into the motor I'd just do header back exhaust and timing advance as far as engine performance goes, that and a true cold air but that's more for noise than anything else since the factory intake draws air from the fender and flows more than enough CFM for a naturally aspirated 1.8L engine.


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2001 Miata LS 5-speed
post Feb 27, 2017 - 6:59 PM
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senick

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QUOTE
and passing power was mostly nonexistent


Yes. That would be my one lamentation, and the reason I'm still terrified to pass. Which I hope to in some part rectify through a more responsive throttle and drive line. If I can downshift, get revs up quickly with a lightweight flywheel and transfer that power through lightweight axles (still need to get a quote on cf drive shafts) and wheels, I'm hoping that would be sufficient...after modest power additions to the engine in the form of exhaust and ignition advance.

Well...the project may be a bit of a ways away, but I might as well start pulling the engine to rebuild as soon as it gets warm enough to do so. I'd have to decide on internals though...all stock or slight modifications? Lightweight rods are where I'm leaning if anything.
post Feb 27, 2017 - 8:34 PM
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I'd just be afraid of putting much in the way of money into a 7A expecting notable returns on performance, especially on stuff like lightweight rods etc... that're a last ditch means of freeing up power. A lightweight flywheel would help with the liveliness though it may come back to bite you when going up hills or mountains.


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2001 Miata LS 5-speed
post Mar 2, 2017 - 8:42 AM
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senick

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Actually, after doing some research, I'm on the fence about a lightweight flywheel. Being that I would prioritize comfort over performance, I'm concerned that the potential detriments to driveability outweigh performance benefits.
How much does a stock flywheel weigh? If I could get something that's maybe 75% of that I'd consider it. Having the stock flywheel skimmed isn't an option since I'd be perpetually concerned about its balance and failing.
post Mar 2, 2017 - 9:42 AM
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cheela



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you should look into ecomodding then.
some of these mods boost MPGs like crazy.
I remember a matrix removed it's side mirrors and gained like 5 MPG. lol

here's a crazy civic that averages 72+ mpg. It's ugly but it works.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/...eavy-28815.html


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*1997 Celica ST - 3SGE Greytop BEAMS
*1977 Celica RA29 - Classic Cruiser
*2005 Matrix AWD - dedded but still hanging around like a ghost
2019 Rav4 XLE Premium - Sports mode is fun.
post Mar 2, 2017 - 3:27 PM
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You know I think I'll stick with the 28-30 mpg I get out of the Firebird. tongue.gif If one day I decided I wanted 60+ mpg on 87 octane I think I'd go grab a first generation Insight 5-speed, but it'd have to be black. Actually I thought about making some fender skirts for the rear of the Firebird, just finish off the spaceship look and see if it helped economy noticeably. tongue.gif


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2001 Miata LS 5-speed
post Mar 2, 2017 - 3:39 PM
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senick

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I'd certainly be willing to do some eco-modding, insomuch as it will be a compliment to the other mods. Namely, those modifications that increase overall performance and fuel economy. The most attractive ones would be:

-Weight reduction (obviously...but not if it increases cabin noise)
-Advance ignition timing - didn't know this helped MPG, but apparently it does at low RPMs
-Lightweight wheels
-ScanGauge MPG display
-Smaller/ more aerodynamic mirrors

Honestly with these changes alone I'm confident I'd get at least 40mpg highway.

By the by, I ran seafoam through my 328i and changed oil, changed driving habits a bit and MPG seems to have gone up considerably. I can easily get 30mpg highway, which is a decent amount more than I was getting.
post Mar 2, 2017 - 5:15 PM
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Lowering it and underbody panels to reduce and smooth out the air going under the car would help. Some clear headlight covers would also help as would removing the rear spoiler. Really not much in the way of weight reduction without sacrificing NVH or general ride comfort. Might look into fifth gen side mirrors:


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2001 Miata LS 5-speed
post Mar 3, 2017 - 7:30 PM
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senick

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I do like those mirrors...wonder why Toyota moved away from them? They seem more advanced from a production standpoint than the 6g mirrors...but then maybe I just answered my own question.

Yeah, I forgot about lowering; would certainly do that as well for performance and economy (and looks too...check all three boxes!) And I'm back to thinking about compression. I'll have to do some research as to whether increasing stock compression necessitates any changes to the ECU. If not, it would just be a cost/benefit analysis of potential power/MPG gains vs. perpetually switching to more expensive gasoline.

Oh, and another question....has anyone ever found a way to cut down on wind noise? I think that's mainly the reason I can't hold a conversation at highway speed without having a sore throat the next day. I'm a bit suspicious of those wind deflectors, and imagine they could increase drag anyway. Maybe just properly sealing the window and doors would do the trick.
post Mar 3, 2017 - 11:13 PM
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I always liked the 5th gen mirrors more, in fact that's just one version of mirror that was on 5th gens. I guess they changed them for stylistic reasons since they actually swap over to the 6th gen without much work, just need some wires moved around if I recall correctly.

I never really noticed much wind noise from mine, only thing I can think to say there is to make sure the windows are well aligned against the seals and then if you haven't conditioned the seals and they're on the dry side that'd help a little. Silicone based interior conditioner works great for rubber seals.


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2001 Miata LS 5-speed
post Mar 20, 2017 - 12:27 PM
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cheela



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for mirrors, i've always wanted the WRC ones but they're rare and hard to find.


and wind noise. I don't think it can be helped much.
just making sure your windows are lined up and your seals are nice and not too worn out.
we're gonna have wind noise regardless because of the sports car styling of the frameless doors. thats just what it is unfortunately.

definitely do soundproof the doors, that should cut down on some road noise.


--------------------

*1997 Celica ST - 3SGE Greytop BEAMS
*1977 Celica RA29 - Classic Cruiser
*2005 Matrix AWD - dedded but still hanging around like a ghost
2019 Rav4 XLE Premium - Sports mode is fun.
post Apr 7, 2017 - 10:26 PM
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CilverSeliST206

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Man you are in Indiana?! Want an awesome project for your car? Swing by my house in IL (Chicago suburbs) I have a swapped 3rd gen 6gc that runs and needs some bodywork done or swap my engine+E153 tranny+all the necessary conversion parts+ton of custom/awesome interior and body parts into YOUR 6gc! I will sell the entire thing for less than any 3SGTE front or real clip!

Seriously man, this would be an awesome project! and you wouldn't have to worry about the usual pains of the conversion since everything is already included!
You would get the following parts that are already thoroughly tested by daily driving:

- JDM 3rd gen 3SGTE engine

- Solara V6 E153 Tranny (manual with TRD short throw shifter)

- Hybrid Axle setup with the custom CV spacer to prevent the issues with it popping out (replaced about a year ago so there in good shape, minus slight CVboot rip)

- Hybrid Wiring harness to make all the features work (AC, gauges, etc) and not have to deal with swap wiring pains!

- Running on factory ECU for the daily driveability and over 300 horsepower! add boost controller and meth injection (total of 200-400$) and you have a 330WHP beast that weighs under 3000lbs its so much fun driving it!! If you go standalone you can squeeze even more power out!

- INCLUDES AWESOME EXTERIOR PARTS:
JDM projector short beams (not installed) + clear longbeam lenses
JDM tail lights
Original 96-99 6gc sideskirts and 96-99 front bumper customized to fit the FMIC and piping

- INCLUDES AWESOME INTERIOR PARTS:

BADASS SOUND SYSTEM with MB Quart components, custom built 6gc hatchback carpeted box holding 12" kicker solobaric, alpine amp (MRV-450), on the other side of the box is space where you fold the rear seat holding car battery (rear conversion) crossovers, capacitor, fuse, etc. all running off alpine head unit.

CAR COMPUTER in the glove box (mini atx board with specialized carputer power supply, relay board if you wanna operate whatever you want through voice control, or additional steering wheel controls, reverse view cam, dash cam, wifi card with external antenna, gps, ton of other features) all you need is a 7" touchscreen (or bigger/smaller depends where you want to mount it - mp3car.com for more info and ideas)

All kinds of gauge pods (double and triple pillar pods (double-installed, triple-brand new) and DCW triple center and single pod for left of the gauge cluster) Autometer gauges (boost and A/F ratio)
Greddy turbo timer, DEI alarm with ton of features (Both already wired and installed)
Stainless gauge bezel for cluster, silver stock gauge faces with blue backlight, blue door panel leather, short throw TRD shifter with Momo knob and new black leather boot w/blue stiching, black leather center compartment cover w/blue stiching, lotsa misc blue colored or blue glowing parts smile.gif sparco pedals

AWESOME PERFORMANCE PARTS:
Precision turbo front mount intercooler, 2.5" silver powder coated and mandrel bent intercooler piping
Greddy type-S Blow off valve (adjustable, and sounds amazing, already installed on the intercooler piping mentioned above)
Aluminium Radiator (unused, brand new, not installed due to fitment issues, will need slim-style rad fans to fit, stock radiator is working just fine though)
Short Ram intake with K&N cone filter (installed) apexi short ram and filter (not installed) two universal cone filter heat shields (aluminium and plastic)
3" downpipe reinforced the turbo side "post-flange funnel" w/ welded metal bars to prevent any cracking (that service cost me as much as the downpipe itself kindasad.gif)
(rest of exhaust needs replacement, bit rusty and beat up from being so low to the ground, flex pipe, mid pipe, and greddy cat back)
(also still have the original downpipe with the cat converter if needed for emissions or something? no emissions for me in IL for OBD1 cars)
Minor ignition upgrades (grounding wires, sparkplugs, plug wires, dry-cell battery, new distributor cap and that rotating button, etc)

The engine and the turbo never saw anything above factory boost setting, always running on stock ECU with no piggibacks. Tranny is from 99 solara and in good shape shifts smooth might need a flush and new fluid at most

SUSPENSION:
Rear Tein SS coilovers (real full coilovers with 32point adjustable dampeners) with pillowball top mounts (installed) also with custom (softer) springs
front Suspension Technics lowering springs with new dampeners (installed)
Rears Suspension Tech springs (used, not installed)
Rear new OEM dampeners (new in box, never installed)
Factory springs (not installed, used)
Ebay brand coilover sleeves and springs (for custom height adjustments, these are just coilover sleeves, new in box never installed)
17" team loco rims powdercoated silver with Yokahama Parada spec 2 summer tires, also factory rims with winter tires.

MUCH MORE MISC PARTS
PIAA Foglights
Extra interior plastics (was meant to be used for experimenting with stuff like the carputer touchscreen factory-looking installation in the center console etc.)
TRD Oil Cap (gotta have that TRD swag!)
Ton of Dynamat sound dampening stuff covering the insides of the hatch to get that clean sound from the system without rattling plastics
Blue wiring heat shields, blue vacuum tubing, misc engine bay swag
Two different adjustable shift lights, one new unused, other slightly used
Many things that I'm forgetting

Let me know if you are interested man, I am sure we can work something out, since you are just a state over you are welcome to come by and take a look at everything prior to making an offer... How much do you want to spend on your project? This whole thing would cost you as much as few basic parts for your BMW! smile.gif

Wow I didnt realize I wrote this long of a post... This deserves its own thread

BTW my FS thread: http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=97614
MY Profile: http://www.6gc.net/celicas/1994-gt-hatchback-4796

Contact me if you are interested and let me know your project budget, or if you want my address to take a look! Cheers!

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