How much do each of the OEM style CF hood and hatch from Seibon / Vis shave from the weight of the car?
Are hood pins required for the hoods(has OEM style hood latch).
Be sure not to count the glass in weight measurements.
Just wondering if it is worth the cost of the parts.
Thanks!
Ill try to be consise.
Is fiberglass and carbon fiber lighter than metal? Yes it is. My 7 year old sister can lift my carbon fiber hood all by herself. For comparison the stock hood weighs as much as my sister. By taking off hood, hatch, fenders, bumpers etc you will save weight. how much I can not tell but basically you should be shedding 95 percent of weight give or take 10 percent. I am not a weight to power ratio guru but from what I heard you free up 15 hp for every 100 lbs shaved off or something like that. No that does not make you gain hp what it does do is quicker acceleration etc etc.
Do you need hood pins? No. VIS hood comes with the latch. Now that does not mean that you can slamm the hood.. you need to handle it with care but it will lock.
yea i think the hood is probly the best carbon fibe rthing to replace if u want a lighter car,also and truck/hatch.
OR you could just stop giving any fat mates a lift and free up a load of HP. lol.
a) "free up 15hp per 100lbs shaved"
technically you don't free up hp...you have the same amount of HP....BUT your power:weight ratio does get better...IE 1hp:27lbs may go to 1hp:23lbs
b) you'll probably save more weight by getting a HOOD (this is just my hypothesis) because a good bulk of the hatch weight is in the GLASS.
c) hood & hatch = good when both are CF
d) look @ stuff on the interior as well, there are LOTS of heavy pieces in there
Aye, strip out all the seats, interior panels and carpets and you'll probably save a fair amount of weight.
lol
ltw racing seats (certified and approved of course)
are a good investment if your serious about weight reduction
seats are probably close to 30-40 lbs per piece i think (est)
rear seat bottom(hatchback) is ~10lbs
backs are a few founds as well
speakers = heavy
spare tire/jack = heavy
sunroof = 25lbs (est)
diet = always good idea haha
Installing Lexan "glass" in the rear hatch would free up a good amount of weight, idk how cost efficient it would be though
I was able to pick up a Seibon OEM style CF Hood for pretty cheap. It has some scratches and scuffs in the clear coat but I'm sure they can be filled in(especially if I paint it).
THe crappy thing is, it's not all that much lighter than the stock hood(Stock=36.5lbs, CF=23.5 on bathroom scale). Just don't think it is worth it for the price, at least for a daily driver(my goal is to improve city MPG).
The fitment is pretty poor as well, the curve near the windshield ends don't match very well, and the hood is a centimeter narraower than stock, so there is a fair sized gap on one side(made the passenger side more flush to impress my girl
When I replaced my stock hood with the GT-4 one, it was so freaking light. You can feel the difference, haha.
13lbs is a nice little weight savings
not sure what the GT4 hood weights?
but sucks that the hood has poor fitment, maybe due to abuse from previous owner? I know when i checked out droptopgt's CF oem style hood (VIS i'm pretty sure) fitment was pretty good.
You are planning all this weight reduction to save on gas? I thought it was to make a race car
haha dude how much petrol do you actually get through?
my gt4 does about 27mpg and a gallon in the uk costs about £4.63
City MPG won't be affected at all no matter how much weight you save if all your doing is sitting in traffic jams all the time and will only improve a little if doing 20/30 all the time. Only way you'll save petrol by reducing weight is when accelerating I reckon anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong.
any weight savings is going to save you "some" amount of gas..not just on accel but through out all driving conditions....though it takes more HP to move the car...it still takes less but some hp to keep it moving..less weight at a constant cruise = less need hp to keep the car moving = less fuel
though by getting a hood he's not going to see anything besides ".4" mpg gain (example not real) its a good start
yeah i realise this mate, what I meant was that if his car weighs 1 ton or 20 tons, if he's stationary in traffic with the engine running its gonna be using exactly the same amount of gas. then like you say its gonna be an unnoticable amount of savings versus the cost of carbon fibre panels.
sitting time is negate able since cars use very little fuel sitting at rest and
eventually traffic has to go somewhere
(though i see your point)
i filled almost a whole 5gal bucket with sound deadening from under the carpets, both front and rear. its noticeably louder. and the car vibrates a bit.. ask Manny about that. i think it makes it that much sweeter.
itchy you scrapped on that OEM stuff stuck to the floors?
i hated that crap! weighed a decent lb too
Back from the dead. I had an opportunity to weigh the various hoods today. Here are my findings:
Stock ST/GT steel hood, without fiberglass lining: 39lbs (17.7kg) approx.
Stock GT4 aluminium hood, with fiberglass lining: 25lbs (11.3kg) approx.
C-One carbon fiber GT4 style hood: 13 lbs (5.9kg) approx.
Sweet. Is that under-carpet stuff hard to get out? More importantly, am I gonna tear up the carpet/tear out my hair trying to get it out?
stuff under the carpet (oem noise crap that is stuck to the floor) is a pain in the ass...i used an air chisel and some time.
try weighting the doors now them suckers are heavy.
the sunroof = ~40lbs
i'm pretty sure the gain from taking out the stuff under the carpet is minimal at best
i think that if your going for weight...and you want to take your car to an auto cross track for the day...just gut the interior...back seat and pass side seat is a LOT of weight right there that you would be getting rid of...also the spare tire, jack, stupid $hit likee that...no offense but a carbon fiber hood and hatch is not going to give you the results you want....maybe for peace of mind but thats about it....sure every little bit helps but when it comes to a difference of 5-10 pounds? come on now.....might as well drive with no hood
Add up some carbon fiber doors to shed out some weight lol.... not very cost efficent for a daily driver though
nobody makes them.........yet
What do you mean Playr? Is there actually a company or someone working on the cf doors for our cars?
hahahah...you know there is more to racing than a 1/4 mile.
removing a sunroof is a dual purpose...let me requote that for you
"removing upper weight (IE sunroof, hood, hatch) shifts the weight balance of the car to a LOWER point (thus giving lower center of gravity).
the more "upper" weight you can remove the better your car can handle."
its handling advantage.
lowering the center of gravity and cutting weight can cut LAP times down.
better handling & less mass = later braking points and faster corner speeds = faster laps.
please go to VIR/Summit hell even a drag strip and tell the real racers weight reduction is psycological
you have yet to make a valid arguement besides an unsupported claim of psychological factors. When you can techincally support and prove it come back and talk to me. I on the other hand can.
my weight savings > you
all the AC boxes came out, the sunroof came out (honeycomb/carbonfiber LTW plug replacement) not to mention many many other things
you can always do something else to get that time. weight reductions are normally pretty easy. Some states don't allow for motor changes, as well as motor modifications can move you out of a class you are competative at and into a class you have no chance. Not to mention more motor doesn't help with handling.
Hoods are more commonly done for aesthetics as well, and not necissarily function as 1% of this site actually races.
Celicas respond in my experience much much better to improvements in handling/weight than to power since the strong point of the celica is handling and not power. and a few tenths can mean the difference between winning and loosing.....I'd take that.
Its cars there is always an alternative to one modification over another. personal preferance is what makes the difference.
Custom CF doors would be crazy high priced..... I'm sure we could get some people together to try to get a company to start making them, yet don't know if we'd have enough people willing to bust out the money for them.
my car has cf doors, fenders, hood, trunk, roof, and rear 1/4 pannels
reduced vehicle weight by 370~ lbs
best mod to the car, seems like it has 100 more hp and handles amazing
-carbon fiber hood is a good idea to save weight, for the purpose of less fuel consumption... over a year if your fuel costs are $2000 for the year, you may save $10 soooo $300+ for the hood would take you like 30 years to actually "save"
-carbon fiber hatch, again a good idea for weight reducion, using lexon or any type of non rigid consistancy will expand & contract. rsx's usually put in cf hatch's and since windows are similar in size to a 6gc i presume you would have similar issues, the plastic n whatnot that gets used as a light weight window either expands n warps the hatch, or contracts and causes other issues.
stop n think before you flame for the first bit
Weight Reduction Modifications
• Sunroof with motor and Headliner 33 pounds
• Interior Panels from Driver Seat to Trunk 18 pounds
• Air Bag from Steering Wheel 4 Pounds
• Full Bucket Racing Seat 10 pounds less over stock
• Liftback Trunk Cover 6 pounds
• Spare Tire, Wooden Tire Cover, Trunk Carpet and Jack 35 pounds
• Rear Seats (Backing and Cushion)36 pounds
• AGM 17 lb Battery 18 pounds less (OEM Battery Weighs 35lbs for USA Market)
• Cruise Control, Rear window wiper/Motor and OEM Antenna 5 pounds
• Floor Mats, Carpet n’ Lining and Firewall Lining with Sound Deadening 20 pounds
• 6 Speaker Audio Sound System (Headunit, Amplifier, Speakers n Brackets) 12 pounds
• 1st Generation Scion TC (2AZ-FE) Starter 2 pounds lighter
• Stock SS-III Front brakes weighs 54 lbs
• Fiberglass Hood with carbon overlay (VIS or Seibon): 11 pounds less or Aluminum ST205 Hood: 14 pounds less or Wet Carbon Fiber Hood: 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• 3SGE Stock Exhaust Header n B-Pipe = 32lbs, Stainless Steel Header n' Bpipe for 3SGE = 20lbs (12lbs lighter)+ Test Pipe (4lbs lighter) + Kakimoto R Exhaust (7lbs lighter) = 22 pounds less
• Adjustable Coilovers 28 Pounds less
For a weekend/track set up vehicle which amounts to 260 pounds.
REMOVING THE A/C SYSTEM AMOUNTS TO 45 LBS + All headlights and fog lights replaced with headlight covers = 12 pounds. Rear Window (swap in for Lexan) = 17 pound savings. Door Panels 12 poundsThese parts are not included in overall total!!!
how about some plastic molded headlights?
and a denso leightweight alternator??? or one of these http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/alt.html#
as I was also looking as to how they make carbon fiber hoods
sorry, the CF I guess came from the thread title. But I was basicly saying that after you remove the cheap stuff, your costs start going up exponentially to save weight.
for autox your mr2 is either E or C class
your celica is probably G class. so after the PAX, yes, its very possible that your celica is faster. But with raw times, you should be quicker with your mr2.
jimmy lol. corvette should always win over a lotus hahaha.
bonzai ftw i never knew they made a light weight alternator....that is awesome I want one.
I'm not sure which one would work, I haven't seen a celica alt. in a very long time.
a LTW alternator is some thing you would probably want to look into when you're completely running out of options to cut weight
ya I know. But a carbon fiber hood with white rims wouldnt look that good on a red celica would it?
it would if you went with a C/F hatch and painted the roof black....or layed C/F over it like i plan too....or just spray the C/F hood red...
Our builds do drink alot. The most eetive way to increase performance on power to weight ratio is to lose weight.
That's why we oer carbon hoods and carbon kits. Very soon in a few months time we'll introduce a carbon trunk lid aiming to weigh around hal o the OEM lid.
Depending what you want, you gotta balance out the cost to what what you want to gain.
Where as we want to keep alot of basics like ICE, and air con and rear seats, we do gut out alot of crap which is not needed in the GT-Fours.
Someone needs to produce a lexan or plexiglass rear window. I can make rear sides for my own car but the rear is too complex and big for me.
that would reduce weight :eeps:
Curb weight on a USDM celica is like 2398lbs or something close to that....its feasable to hit 2,000.....
2,415 is the curb weight for an ST Liftback celica, but that doesnt include abs (abs weighs another 30 pounds)... While tegs are lighter than celica yes I used to think they were really lightweight. The real lightweights are eg6 and ek9 civics....
2,395 pounds is the coupe st
Well, the official weight of mine is 2409 (I do not have ABS). However, I'm factoring in tC wheels at 22 pounds each, and a subwoofer and amp in the back. So I give it 2450.
refer to my post down low. there are more accurate numbers there!
the more weight you take out from the interior the more it throws off the front to rear weight distribution. So if you had coilovers and got them weight balanced so that you can get as close to a 50/50 ratio then it would be fine. The more weight you take off the rear means the front will only get heavier, which will be prone to more understeer and unstable rear end right?[/b]
on a fwd, there's going to be more understeer but with a lighter rear-end, the center of gravity shifts towards the front giving you better acceleration.
yea i've removed the sunroof (fabricating a composite plug to replace it) its like 4x lbs all together.
It 's very good things to Reduce the Weight and making the vehicle lighter. The best way to lighten your new car or truck is to remove parts which you do not need as well as to take the vital parts of your car and replace them with lighter models.
lately, i've been thinking of adding weight to my car to get more traction in the snow... lead weights positioned at the front behind the bumper would be the best spot to put them..
or you can get thinner tires for the front.
Weight Reduction Modifications
• Sunroof with motor and Headliner 33 pounds
• Interior Panels from Driver Seat to Trunk 18 pounds
• Air Bag from Steering Wheel 4 Pounds
• Full Bucket Racing Seat 10 pounds less over stock
• Liftback Trunk Cover 6 pounds
• Spare Tire, Wooden Tire Cover, Trunk Carpet and Jack 35 pounds
• Rear Seats (Backing and Cushion)36 pounds
• AGM 17 lb Battery 18 pounds less (OEM Battery Weighs 35lbs for USA Market)
• Cruise Control, Rear window wiper/Motor and OEM Antenna 5 pounds
• Floor Mats, Carpet n’ Lining and Firewall Lining with Sound Deadening 20 pounds
• 6 Speaker Audio Sound System (Headunit, Amplifier, Speakers n Brackets) 12 pounds
• 1st Generation Scion TC (2AZ-FE) Starter 2 pounds lighter
• Stock SS-III Front brakes weighs 54 lbs
• Fiberglass Hood with carbon overlay (VIS or Seibon): 11 pounds less or Aluminum ST205 Hood: 14 pounds less or Wet Carbon Fiber Hood: 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• 3SGE Stock Exhaust Header n B-Pipe = 32lbs, Stainless Steel Header n' Bpipe for 3SGE = 20lbs (12lbs lighter)+ Test Pipe (4lbs lighter) + Kakimoto R Exhaust (7lbs lighter) = 22 pounds less
• Adjustable Coilovers 28 Pounds less
For a weekend/track set up vehicle which amounts to 260 pounds.
REMOVING THE A/C SYSTEM AMOUNTS TO 45 LBS + All headlights and fog lights replaced with headlight covers = 12 pounds. Rear Window (swap in for Lexan) = 17 pound savings. Door Panels 12 poundsThese parts are not included in overall total!!!
I had an Integra, I don't have numbers, but from what I was always told they were "heavy" compared to other Hondas (Excluding Del Sol). I can tell you this, the Celica has a much nicer ride, and the performance is not that much worse (roughly the same after the few mods I have done).
Cant give figures but i have removed a lot of kit from my JDM ST205
Removed aircon
Fg wings
Cf bonnet
Cf hatch & lexan screen
Cf mirrors
Rear seats removed
Aerial & motor removed
Rear wiper & motor removed
No spare wheel , jack ect
Dash swapped for non air bag version
Coilovers
Uprated discs and callipers all round - quite a lot lighter despite being far bigger
Cf seats
Also got FG doors but i might sell these on not sure yet
The wings and bonnet don't make too much difference unfortunately Johny
Aircon is the biggest one, as is losing the failbox for a FMIC.
Light wheels and brakes will make biggest difference to acceleration!
ohhh Rusty....
can we get this stickied please , maybe change the title to "how to lighten you celica for track use".....
another thing I was reading from the honda tech forums. If you replace the rear hatch window for a lexan/plastic type material it is highly recommended to install a roll cage. The glass on the hatch helps a lot with rigidity. Since their double wishbone suspension is more rigid then our, I think they know what they are talking about...
of course this only applies to FF Layout Celica's....
Bonzai, i removed all my windows.
door windows are gone (you can't race with them up, and you can always replace with lexan/plexi
also removed the two smaller side windows as well and having them replaced. However, *everything* is gone from my car so it doesn't count until i put things back together
once i get my coilovers I should really take my shell to the weight scales
I like what you did with the roof, but rivets
thats not what I did player. Thats a photo taken from honda tech. its an example. I'm just getting idea's of how to plug up the sunroof. I'm probably weld that sunroof shut or whatever the shop advises me to do.
Ahhhh thank goodness. rivets look horrible.
Wish I had time to get to my garage and finish that stuff up
I'd like to make it removable instead of just welding it shut.
There is this info on GTFours.uk, they also weights of GT4 specific parts in another section
stickied & moved to the suspension section as it has more to do with that side of things.
A lot of rally cars just rivet the sunroof hole closed. I welded and fiberglassed mine. I was running out of time and it looks like ****, but hey whatever.
As far as buying carbon fiber body panels for weight savings, its useless unless you're really involved in some type of racing. My dads 230lbs and I cant really tell much of a difference with him in the car and without. Really amazes me what some people go to for weight savings in a car that might see the drag strip once a year or an autox occaisionally. The mustang guys (when I used to have one) were hell bent on rear seat deletes that saved like 30 lbs... because they drag raced occaisionally.
look below for weight reduction totals!
First Id like to say that for every vehicle I have owned I could feel the difference between having a passenger and not. You can feel the loss of acceleration, the suspension over bumps and the way the vehicle rolled around turns. On my motorcycle and 6gc I can even feel a full fuel tank vs an empty tank. The slower the car the greater the performance gain from reduced weight.
Another idea Id like to add to this thread is that the most effective places to reduce weight are on
(a) rotating parts such as the crankshaft, flywheel and tire/wheels. These parts store a lot of inertia so lightening them will reduce significantly reduce the speed at which the engine/drivetrain accelerate and decelerate. Pound for pound the most effective area to reduce weight.
(b) the unsprung weight on the suspension such as control arms, brakes and tire/wheel. The less the moving components of the suspension weigh the less inertia they have. Reduced inertia means that the suspension will react faster to the road surface which reduces wheel hop and the amount of vibrations/bumps that are felt within the cabin of the vehicle.
© the parts which are on the extreme height of the vehicle such as bumpers, batterys, sunroofs, hoods, trunks and so on. The higher in elevation a part is from the roll center of the vehicle(meaning the higher off the ground it is) the more it will cause the body of the vehicle to roll around turns which reduces traction. You are effectively lowering the center of gravity(just like when you drop it) towards the surface of the road.
(d) the parts at the outer extremes from the vehicles center of inertia such as the battery, bumpers, fenders, hood, hatch, engine and so on. Just like the weight of the rotating mass in the engine effects its ability to rev up quickly, so do the heavy components at the extreme front, rear, and sides effect the vehicles moment of inertia. The vehicle will turn easier and more quickly with a reduced moment of inertia which is why mid-engined cars handle so much better than their front engined counterparts. The best example I can give is whether it is easier to swing a heavy bat or hammer vs your empty hand.
Anyways, the point is that certain areas of the car magnify the effects of heavy components. Parts that spin effect acceleration and deceleration performance. Parts farther away from the center of the vehicle effect the handling of the car by effecting the angular acceleration of the vehicle around its center of gravity, which includes roll, yaw and pitch.
Unless you're using the car strictly for some form of auto racing, I don't see the point in carbon fiber parts. Well, aside from a carbon fiber driveshaft. Better off spending the money on lighter wheels, flywheel, etc... first and using carbon fiber body panels as a last ditch effort to remove weight.
And back from the dead again.
These are the actual #s. I know, I weighed them myself.
The Carbon Fiber hatch by itself weighs ... 15 lbs
The stock hatch without the glass weighs ... 40 lbs
The glass from the hatch weighs ... 18 lbs
Stock hatch (with glass, wiring, under plastics, brake light, wiper motor) = about 60 lbs
The CF hatch (with glass, wiring, under plastics, brake light) = about 35 lbs
25lbs!!!!! for how much effort and money hahaha oh well good fun at least and i guess you can say it'll help handling since it will move the center of gravity ~1/8" lower in the car
Nice work though Bats.
couple the cf hatch with plexiglass and then it may be a bit more worth the time!
Just remove the hatch completely and cover it with plastic sheeting, more weight reduction for less money.
Nah... Just do it so that it's taught, and makes a nice surface. It'd be like a tonneau cover, sorta.
It's actually not as crazy expensive as I thought for a CF hatch as I've found them for $700 (I was fully expecting over a grand). I've also been experimenting at work with different clear coatings for lexan as I know it can get scratched up. However considering it's on the hatch it probably wouldn't be terrible and your biggest issue would be it fogging up. If you coupled that with the CF hatch you're looking at dropping about 40 pounds. The lexan itself to cover that kind or area isn't that expensive either it'd run around $60.
Once you've done all the "free weight savings" this is probably the most cost effective weight savings you'll find.
Getting lightweight wheels will give you more get-up-and-go than this, but 40 pounds for around $750 bucks isn't bad at all.
Unless you want to do this.... lol
http://www.modified.com/features/0208_technical_assistance_program/
I got the CF hatch in a deal and a spare stock hatch (for the glass) from mkernz.
I might put the cf hatch on one of the cars and still have the stock hatch to replace if I sell it.
As for weight reductions, I know my hatch struts are gonna work fantastic now.
I really don't care about the weight or lack of weight with it. I'm happy that it's lighter than stock and is neato to look at, also, I would rather put on a cf hatch than remove...my moonroof, spare tire, hatch cover, seats, power steering, airbag, door panels, speakers, floormatts, and headlights.
I'm not making track cars, I have daily drivers.
Totally understand.. I'm going for the complete other end of the spectrum.
Before I picked up Shannon's car there was a really nice 2000 BMW 328i I was looking at, (owner didn't mention it was auto till I got there) and my wife said something about driving her friends around in it. I go "In what? You watch how fast I'll turn a sedan into a one seater..."
Weight Reduction Modifications
• Sunroof with motor and Headliner 33 pounds
• Interior Panels from Driver Seat to Trunk 18 pounds
• Air Bag from Steering Wheel 4 Pounds
• Full Bucket Racing Seat 10 pounds less over stock
• Liftback Trunk Cover 6 pounds
• Spare Tire, Wooden Tire Cover, Trunk Carpet and Jack 35 pounds
• Rear Seats (Backing and Cushion)36 pounds
• AGM 17 lb Battery 18 pounds less (OEM Battery Weighs 35lbs for USA Market)
• Cruise Control, Rear window wiper/Motor and OEM Antenna 5 pounds
• Floor Mats, Carpet n’ Lining and Firewall Lining with Sound Deadening 20 pounds
• 6 Speaker Audio Sound System (Headunit, Amplifier, Speakers n Brackets) 12 pounds
• 1st Generation Scion TC (2AZ-FE) Starter 2 pounds lighter
• Stock SS-III Front brakes weighs 54 lbs
• Fiberglass Hood with carbon overlay (VIS or Seibon): 11 pounds less or Aluminum ST205 Hood: 14 pounds less or Wet Carbon Fiber Hood: 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• 3SGE Stock Exhaust Header n B-Pipe = 32lbs, Stainless Steel Header n' Bpipe for 3SGE = 20lbs (12lbs lighter)+ Test Pipe (4lbs lighter) + Kakimoto R Exhaust (7lbs lighter) = 22 pounds less
• Adjustable Coilovers 28 Pounds less
For a weekend/track set up vehicle which amounts to 260 pounds.
REMOVING THE A/C SYSTEM AMOUNTS TO 45 LBS + All headlights and fog lights replaced with headlight covers = 12 pounds. Rear Window (swap in for Lexan) = 17 pound savings. Door Panels 12 poundsThese parts are not included in overall total!!!
just increase horsepower and keep the luxuries.... lol
98-99 Celica SS3 with Superstrut has thicker axles which weigh a pound heavier per side.
Full beams air intake system weighs 7.4lbs
updated. was bored n weighed more parts n added to list above...
was thinking about making a the power steering bracket (2 pounds 5 oz) and 3SGTE/3SGE idler pulley bracket (3 pounds 14 oz) out of 6061 alloy. My guess is I could get the weight down by half but the price would just be too much unless 100 were made. was looking into an all alloy power steering pumps. however all the newer toyota ones are the style that are bolted directly to the block and use one large belt (such as that on the 1zz and 2azfe engines)
ya but then converting to ehps from mr-s is expensive as well. no way around that. you can yaris electric assist steering but then need to change your rack....
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