6G Celicas Forums

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> 5sp trans swap from 5th gen, Is it feasible?
post Jun 6, 2012 - 3:32 PM
+Quote Post
Xander_X



Enthusiast
***
Joined Apr 22, '12
From Central NY
Currently Offline

Reputation: 5 (100%)




So, since day one of me purchasing my '99 GT (about 2 months ago), I've wanted to do a transmission swap. I bought this car cause of the low mileage, great condition and decent price. But I hate this auto trans, I swear the trans ECU is retarded, I can't quite find any reliable trigger point for downshifting. Sometimes I floor it and it bogs, sometimes I floor it and opens right up (normal for these cars?). I hate not having the power when I want it. So after all my research, I've just decided to buy a complete donor car as there are too many little parts and I figure I can just part out the rest of the car and probably make back a good chunk of the money.

I haven't started looking for a donor yet but I wanted to know if all or most of the parts from a 5th gen with a 5S would work? I just didn't want to rule it out in case I got the chance to pick one up cheap. Anyone know? If it's only a couple parts that are different, then cool ... if more than a couple, I'll just make sure to get a 6gen.

This post has been edited by Xander_X: Jun 6, 2012 - 3:35 PM


--------------------
99 Celica GT-S
91 Subaru Legacy Sport AWD Turbo
2010 Acura RDX Turbo w/ Technology Package
68 Impala SS Convertable
post Jun 6, 2012 - 3:41 PM
+Quote Post
Smaay

Enthusiast
*****
Joined Dec 8, '03
From Lancaster CA
Currently Offline

Reputation: 6 (100%)




its possible that parts from a 5th gen will transfer over but you have a 6th gen, get a 6th gen donor


--------------------
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo
1997 Supra TT 6speed
1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap
1990 Celica All-Trac
post Jun 6, 2012 - 6:07 PM
+Quote Post
trdproven



Enthusiast
*****
Joined Aug 2, '05
From Guam
Currently Offline

Reputation: 15 (100%)




I would assume it would be if its the same transmission model from a 5sfe, only difference may be the trans mount. i dont think electrical would be that much different but thats the simple part if it were. but i'd source out the 6th gen first unless the 5th gen one is free or super dirt cheap. im sure you'll find out by checking on google. research on mount (likely different), gear ratios. Another thing is yours is OBDII and the trans is OBDI so thats another thing, if it even matters.


--------------------
94 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tom's|Competition Clutch|5Zigen|Apexi|
|Laille/Beatrush|Magnecor|Denso|Royal Purple|Optima|PIAA|PW JDM|Megan Racing|Nitto|
|Work|Greddy|Samco|Project Mu|H&R|Gates|Moog|Rota|Yokohama|Epman|1320|Upgr8
04 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tein|BC Racing|Greddy|

89 Supra (Sold)
90 Supra (Sold)
post Jun 6, 2012 - 6:38 PM
+Quote Post
Xander_X



Enthusiast
***
Joined Apr 22, '12
From Central NY
Currently Offline

Reputation: 5 (100%)




Well, the only reason I ask is because there are VERY few 6gc around my area. I may see one or two a year driving around and I NEVER see them in the junk yards. 5 gens, however, are not so rare. I would obviously source an OBDII trans ECU. I'm sure the trans itself will mount up, I was more wondering about master/slave cylinders, pedals, cables ... stuff like that. Guess I'll just have to do the research. Maybe I'll join a 5th gen site and get all the specs.


--------------------
99 Celica GT-S
91 Subaru Legacy Sport AWD Turbo
2010 Acura RDX Turbo w/ Technology Package
68 Impala SS Convertable
post Jun 6, 2012 - 10:31 PM
+Quote Post
trdproven



Enthusiast
*****
Joined Aug 2, '05
From Guam
Currently Offline

Reputation: 15 (100%)




master does not matter as long as it mounts to your firewall basically from a 6gc oem or aftermarket. hard lines can be from a 6gc or buy straight hard lines that have the same fitting/thread and just bend it accordingly. slave cylinder does not matter, you would get the slave for that tranny because it needs to mount onto the tranny. pedals are for the 6th gen but they might be the same as a 5th gen possibly but you could source out most of these minor parts on this forum in the part outs, the tranny is your biggest concern). you have to do physical sight inspection to compare the pedals between the two gens. cables shouldn't matter, just buy one from a 6gc. Many of your parts you are looking for dont need to be oem, mostly just the pedals and the tranny/c-clips, maybe the shifter cables, shifter bezel, and shifter assembly. You can even grind the brake pedal accordingly and put a MT brake cover over it so you just need the clutch. I just threw out the gear ratio thing because i dont know if they are the same or not what you want it to be. what did you mean buy sourcing out an OBDII ECU, isnt your car a 99? The 5gc tranny would be from an OBDI but im guessing OBDI tranny wouldnt matter because its manual transmission and almost no sensors just mostly start, reverse lights, speed sensor etc. , if it were auto then thats different.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jun 6, 2012 - 10:43 PM


--------------------
94 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tom's|Competition Clutch|5Zigen|Apexi|
|Laille/Beatrush|Magnecor|Denso|Royal Purple|Optima|PIAA|PW JDM|Megan Racing|Nitto|
|Work|Greddy|Samco|Project Mu|H&R|Gates|Moog|Rota|Yokohama|Epman|1320|Upgr8
04 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tein|BC Racing|Greddy|

89 Supra (Sold)
90 Supra (Sold)
post Jun 7, 2012 - 6:25 AM
+Quote Post
mkernz22



Enthusiast
*****
Joined May 10, '10
From MA
Currently Offline

Reputation: 37 (100%)




just try double tapping the gas like in the arcade video games lol. it sounds stupid, but it actually worked with my car to get it to downshift pretty quickly (that was when I had an auto anyway). don't do light taps though, it didn't work as well.
post Jun 7, 2012 - 8:25 AM
+Quote Post
Xander_X



Enthusiast
***
Joined Apr 22, '12
From Central NY
Currently Offline

Reputation: 5 (100%)




Sounds like a lot of "if's", "might's" and "maybe's" .... I'm probably better off playing it safe, spending a little more and driving out of my way to get a 6 gen. Tweak said that because I have OBDII, I would either need to get my ECU hacked or a manual ECU. I don't know why I can't put a resister in it like an OBDI, but I trust that he knows what he's talking about.


--------------------
99 Celica GT-S
91 Subaru Legacy Sport AWD Turbo
2010 Acura RDX Turbo w/ Technology Package
68 Impala SS Convertable
post Jun 7, 2012 - 8:39 AM
+Quote Post
Smaay

Enthusiast
*****
Joined Dec 8, '03
From Lancaster CA
Currently Offline

Reputation: 6 (100%)




QUOTE (trdproven @ Jun 6, 2012 - 4:07 PM) *
Another thing is yours is OBDII and the trans is OBDI so thats another thing, if it even matters.



trans has nothing to do with ODB II


--------------------
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo
1997 Supra TT 6speed
1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap
1990 Celica All-Trac
post Jun 7, 2012 - 10:43 AM
+Quote Post
Xander_X



Enthusiast
***
Joined Apr 22, '12
From Central NY
Currently Offline

Reputation: 5 (100%)




QUOTE (Smaay @ Jun 7, 2012 - 8:39 AM) *
QUOTE (trdproven @ Jun 6, 2012 - 4:07 PM) *
Another thing is yours is OBDII and the trans is OBDI so thats another thing, if it even matters.



trans has nothing to do with ODB II



No, but is it possible that trying to modify an automatic OBDII ECU, which is more sensitive than an OBDI ECU, to work best with manual, might be extremely difficult vs just getting the correct ECU I need? Either way, not worried about, I can source the correct ECU from anywhere in the US.


--------------------
99 Celica GT-S
91 Subaru Legacy Sport AWD Turbo
2010 Acura RDX Turbo w/ Technology Package
68 Impala SS Convertable
post Jun 7, 2012 - 11:08 AM
+Quote Post
cheela



Enthusiast
*****
Joined Feb 2, '07
From Berlin, WI
Currently Offline

Reputation: 18 (100%)




QUOTE (mkernz22 @ Jun 7, 2012 - 6:25 AM) *
just try double tapping the gas like in the arcade video games lol. it sounds stupid, but it actually worked with my car to get it to downshift pretty quickly (that was when I had an auto anyway). don't do light taps though, it didn't work as well.


hahahah I do that too. laugh.gif laugh.gif


--------------------

*1997 Celica ST - 3SGE Greytop BEAMS
*1977 Celica RA29 - Classic Cruiser
*2005 Matrix AWD - dedded but still hanging around like a ghost
2019 Rav4 XLE Premium - Sports mode is fun.
post Jun 8, 2012 - 2:08 AM
+Quote Post
trdproven



Enthusiast
*****
Joined Aug 2, '05
From Guam
Currently Offline

Reputation: 15 (100%)




QUOTE (Xander_X @ Jun 7, 2012 - 11:25 PM) *
Sounds like a lot of "if's", "might's" and "maybe's" .... I'm probably better off playing it safe, spending a little more and driving out of my way to get a 6 gen. Tweak said that because I have OBDII, I would either need to get my ECU hacked or a manual ECU. I don't know why I can't put a resister in it like an OBDI, but I trust that he knows what he's talking about.


No you don't need a manual ECU, the ECU just won't see the auto tranny connections anymore, you can get a manual ECU or just remove the bulb for the O/D light or get a manual gauge cluster. your call.

QUOTE (Smaay @ Jun 7, 2012 - 11:39 PM) *
QUOTE (trdproven @ Jun 6, 2012 - 4:07 PM) *
Another thing is yours is OBDII and the trans is OBDI so thats another thing, if it even matters.



trans has nothing to do with ODB II


right, my post after says, it shouldn't matter because tranny is manual transmission, its mechanical, not sensor/electrical-related.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jun 8, 2012 - 2:10 AM


--------------------
94 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tom's|Competition Clutch|5Zigen|Apexi|
|Laille/Beatrush|Magnecor|Denso|Royal Purple|Optima|PIAA|PW JDM|Megan Racing|Nitto|
|Work|Greddy|Samco|Project Mu|H&R|Gates|Moog|Rota|Yokohama|Epman|1320|Upgr8
04 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tein|BC Racing|Greddy|

89 Supra (Sold)
90 Supra (Sold)
post Jun 8, 2012 - 2:12 AM
+Quote Post
trdproven



Enthusiast
*****
Joined Aug 2, '05
From Guam
Currently Offline

Reputation: 15 (100%)




QUOTE (Xander_X @ Jun 7, 2012 - 11:25 PM) *
Sounds like a lot of "if's", "might's" and "maybe's" .... I'm probably better off playing it safe, spending a little more and driving out of my way to get a 6 gen. Tweak said that because I have OBDII, I would either need to get my ECU hacked or a manual ECU. I don't know why I can't put a resister in it like an OBDI, but I trust that he knows what he's talking about.


theres no ifs mights and maybe's if you do the physical inspection between the two trannies, pedal, etc. its doable but you need to physically confirm it yourself. i can believe they are similar if not the same (maybe the mounts are different and shifter assembly). the reason why you think its might or maybe is because if i had both cars in front of me I'd know already but i dont. Your concern is to get as much as possible needed from the 5th gen. the rest you source from 6gc used, oem, or aftermarket replacement.

Use the auto to manual checklist to compare.

im sure for example you need to buy a shifter bezel, shifter assembly, maybe cables (but if you are buying the donor car, you can try it), and so on...because there are some things that 6gc is just different period, you wont be able to get everything from a 5th gen, so you need to get as much as you can that is compatible and you need to compare it by looking at it or checking someone who has a 5th gen.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jun 8, 2012 - 2:21 AM


--------------------
94 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tom's|Competition Clutch|5Zigen|Apexi|
|Laille/Beatrush|Magnecor|Denso|Royal Purple|Optima|PIAA|PW JDM|Megan Racing|Nitto|
|Work|Greddy|Samco|Project Mu|H&R|Gates|Moog|Rota|Yokohama|Epman|1320|Upgr8
04 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tein|BC Racing|Greddy|

89 Supra (Sold)
90 Supra (Sold)
post Jun 8, 2012 - 9:21 AM
+Quote Post
Xander_X



Enthusiast
***
Joined Apr 22, '12
From Central NY
Currently Offline

Reputation: 5 (100%)




^ thank you Captain Obvious! I'm just playin' bowdown.gif ... NO, I know all that. I just thought maybe someone had tried it or might be as proficient with the 5 gen as much as the 6 gen. I mean, my first car was a 5 gen GT-S 5pd ... granted I knew dick about cars back then, I just thought it was pretty and would get me tail ...


--------------------
99 Celica GT-S
91 Subaru Legacy Sport AWD Turbo
2010 Acura RDX Turbo w/ Technology Package
68 Impala SS Convertable
post Jun 8, 2012 - 11:31 AM
+Quote Post
PhoenixTech

Enthusiast
*
Joined Dec 3, '08
From Summerville, SC
Currently Offline

Reputation: 0 (0%)




5th Gen's are a cable driven speedometer. You'll need to get the marlin crawler speed sensor adapter to convert the cable output to a 3pin electronic output for your 6gc. Also, Since you're OBD-II, you will have a CEL if you keep the auto ECU. This will NOT cause any performance side effects, but if you're in an area where you have inspections, you might want to think about that as well.

Rather than go through the hassle of trying to swap your car to a manual.....why don't you just sell your car and buy one that is already manual. Save you some headache.


--------------------
www.tweakdperformance.com
sales@tweakdperformance.com
post Jun 8, 2012 - 3:27 PM
+Quote Post
Xander_X



Enthusiast
***
Joined Apr 22, '12
From Central NY
Currently Offline

Reputation: 5 (100%)




really not that much of a headache to me. It's a low mileage car, less than 80k, last year made, clean enough to eat off the bottom without a hint of rust or corrosion and basically every US option that was available ... no 8 speaker system though frown.gif ... basically, its just in such good shape, finding another one like it will be difficult. I figure I can buy a donor for less than $2,000 and make a lot of that back selling the parts and scraping the rest.


--------------------
99 Celica GT-S
91 Subaru Legacy Sport AWD Turbo
2010 Acura RDX Turbo w/ Technology Package
68 Impala SS Convertable
post Jun 8, 2012 - 4:18 PM
+Quote Post
trdproven



Enthusiast
*****
Joined Aug 2, '05
From Guam
Currently Offline

Reputation: 15 (100%)




Phoenixtech, that is good info on the speed sensor, so that becomes his call to make it work or not. personally i would just go to another state in order to get the right one, or get it from a similar camry 5sfe and do compatibility comparison. but this is what i mean by just physically comparing it, thats all you need to do to see if it will work. I ordered mine from the states junkyard, and im out in the pacific ocean.

Xander - i know what you mean about someone who might know the 5th gen better, but its really simple to check. but really, i would not try to get a 5th gen, it makes things more complicated, you want a straight forward swap and not get stuck in the process with incompatibilities, just try your best to get a 6gc trans or same year camry ones. you'll be good to go.


--------------------
94 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tom's|Competition Clutch|5Zigen|Apexi|
|Laille/Beatrush|Magnecor|Denso|Royal Purple|Optima|PIAA|PW JDM|Megan Racing|Nitto|
|Work|Greddy|Samco|Project Mu|H&R|Gates|Moog|Rota|Yokohama|Epman|1320|Upgr8
04 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tein|BC Racing|Greddy|

89 Supra (Sold)
90 Supra (Sold)
post Jun 8, 2012 - 4:54 PM
+Quote Post
Xander_X



Enthusiast
***
Joined Apr 22, '12
From Central NY
Currently Offline

Reputation: 5 (100%)




QUOTE (trdproven @ Jun 8, 2012 - 5:18 PM) *
Xander - i know what you mean about someone who might know the 5th gen better, but its really simple to check. but really, i would not try to get a 5th gen, it makes things more complicated, you want a straight forward swap and not get stuck in the process with incompatibilities, just try your best to get a 6gc trans or same year camry ones. you'll be good to go.


Yeah, I mean I know that a 6 gen would be best, it's just like I said, they're just so rare here alive or dead while 5 gen are much more prevalent (within a 150 mile radius is what I consider "here" or "my area". I'm sure I'll find one no problem, just going to have to go out of the area to get it probably.


--------------------
99 Celica GT-S
91 Subaru Legacy Sport AWD Turbo
2010 Acura RDX Turbo w/ Technology Package
68 Impala SS Convertable
post Jun 8, 2012 - 8:20 PM
+Quote Post
Syaoran



Enthusiast
*****
Joined Jan 4, '12
From US
Currently Offline

Reputation: 6 (100%)




Here's my opinion from having used both transmissions.

I like the 6GC manual better. The S54 is a much better transmission. The double-cone synchros are really noticeable using just regular trans fluid (which is what my actual 6gc has).

I had a 5GC before this, it was a 93 GT. The S53 is OK at best. The fact that the S54 is much better made is worth the price difference to me. Unless you want the trans for the sake of being manual, I would suggest getting the S54 (6GC trans) because the S53 is only halfway decent spending some good $ on Pennzoil Synchromesh or Redline MT-90. The S54 with either has smooth-as-butter shifting.


--------------------
1993 Celica GT Coupe - sold
1994 Celica GT Liftback
post Jun 8, 2012 - 11:02 PM
+Quote Post
Xander_X



Enthusiast
***
Joined Apr 22, '12
From Central NY
Currently Offline

Reputation: 5 (100%)




QUOTE (Syaoran @ Jun 8, 2012 - 9:20 PM) *
Here's my opinion from having used both transmissions.

I like the 6GC manual better. The S54 is a much better transmission. The double-cone synchros are really noticeable using just regular trans fluid (which is what my actual 6gc has).

I had a 5GC before this, it was a 93 GT. The S53 is OK at best. The fact that the S54 is much better made is worth the price difference to me. Unless you want the trans for the sake of being manual, I would suggest getting the S54 (6GC trans) because the S53 is only halfway decent spending some good $ on Pennzoil Synchromesh or Redline MT-90. The S54 with either has smooth-as-butter shifting.


Hey, you've got me sold! lol .... I mean, I mostly want a 5sp because I've never been a fan of auto unless I'm driving a pick up ... though my RDX is auto and I like it. Point is, for a "sports" or "sporty" car ... I want something that I control the power ... it's there when I want it .. I tell it what to do. I will say that though my RDX turbo's auto trans is really smart and knows when I want it ... it also has paddle shifters ...


--------------------
99 Celica GT-S
91 Subaru Legacy Sport AWD Turbo
2010 Acura RDX Turbo w/ Technology Package
68 Impala SS Convertable
post Jun 9, 2012 - 5:35 AM
+Quote Post
trdproven



Enthusiast
*****
Joined Aug 2, '05
From Guam
Currently Offline

Reputation: 15 (100%)




looks like the camry is also s53. you could get an mr2 s54 one but thats extra work too, LOL.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jun 9, 2012 - 5:35 AM


--------------------
94 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tom's|Competition Clutch|5Zigen|Apexi|
|Laille/Beatrush|Magnecor|Denso|Royal Purple|Optima|PIAA|PW JDM|Megan Racing|Nitto|
|Work|Greddy|Samco|Project Mu|H&R|Gates|Moog|Rota|Yokohama|Epman|1320|Upgr8
04 Celica GT
|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tein|BC Racing|Greddy|

89 Supra (Sold)
90 Supra (Sold)

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: March 28th, 2024 - 12:04 PM