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Posted by: defgeph Sep 12, 2005 - 8:29 AM

*THIS IS FOR INSTRUCTIONAL USE*

READ THIS BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION
90% of the time the answer is here.

Hey guys,
I figured I'd do a write up while I was doing my swap. Later on we can edit everything and have a nice FAQ & how-to for the 3sgte swap.

Ok, I dont know everything about cars. I took on this project to learn and further enjoy the car I love. There will be times where I dont know what a part is or how to explain it, but with everyone's help we'll get through it.

If you guys have anything to add, please feel free to reply. Please do not flame me or post negative remarks about the parts I install, or anything thats involved in this thread. Post your opinions not your attitudes.

First Step: The thought. Should I do it. Well its up to you, use this as a guide to help you along the way.
Its recommended that you have somewhere around 4000 dollars saved for the swap.

Before you ask: Engine or Clip. Get the clip, it will have all the parts you need for the swap. (for the most part). If you purchase only an engine you would have to hunt down so many hard to find parts it would be rediculous.

Second Step : What model do you have ST(like me) or a GT.
IF you have a GT its a little easier for you guys. The 5sfe Tranny bolts right up to the 3sgte engine. Most people will bash the 5s tranny saying it wont hold the power. We have a few guys running the 5s tranny with no problems.
Other options: E-153 MR2 turbo tranny with LSD
1mzfe tranny found on Solaras, Camrys, and ES300s
3sge tranny found on a number of Toyotas

NOTE: The MR2 turbo tranny, and 1MZFE need the ST205 rear mount and bracket. Do not drive around with three mounts. DO NOT have one custom made for you, ORDER the ST205 rear transmission bracket

GT guys unless you dont want to use the 5sfe tranny, move on you dont need this section.

ST guys. You need a new tranny. You most likely know that you need new mounts. I have purchased all four GT mounts. Get them all you need everything. Its better to be safe than sorry.
You cannot use the Alltrac tranny. You cannot use your ST tranny. You would need a GT tranny or one of the trannys listed above.

ST mounts


GT mounts




See the mounts are totally different.



You also need to get a tranny, look above for recomendations. I'm using a JDM 3SGE Tranny. I'll have pics and more detail later on.
you need axles that match the tranny.
Shifter cables yep you need them.
Here is how they break down:
E-153 mr2 turbo tranny = ST205 cables only
GT tranny = GT shifter cables
1mzfe (also known as the E153) Solara, Camry Tranny = ST205 Cables only
3SGE Tranny = GT Cables
[/b]
I have some pictures of cables and the differences

GT & GT4 side by side

GT left, GT4 right

GT top, GT4 bottom

See totally different

Ok Cables, mounts, axles I think we can join the GT guys again.

GT & ST: Clutch. Depending on which tranny you use it will effect which clutch parts you buy.


You all will need a new fuel pump. I am using a walbro supra turbo pump. Most people will say that it whines when operating. People have even dubbed it "WhineBro". Another option is to purchase a OEM Supra turbo pump from toyota. It is silent, and still delivers the fuel the 3sgte needs.

I'm not going to cover after market intercoolers. You can do the swap with the stock set up. The stock Air to Air cooler is not recommened, most people prefer to get an aftermarket. The stock intercooler sits on top of the 3sgte, with leads to heat soak at an idle. Most people Use an front mount intercooler. You can search for it in the forums.
My 3SGTE is the RC version with a water cooled top mount intercooler. I have no need to get a FMIC (front mount intercooler)

Posted by: defgeph Sep 12, 2005 - 8:31 AM

My Setup
97 celica ST 5spd 179,xxx
ST185 3SGTE RC Swap
USDM GT motor mounts
JDM 3SGE Tranny
JDM 3SGE axles
GT shifter cables
Fidanza Flyweel 10 lbs.
Spec stage 3 clutch
HKS SSQ blow off Valve
Walbro fuel pump
Full 3 inch exhaust
HKS Titanium TI muffler
Lotek Triple Gauge pillar
Autometer Sport Comp boost gauge
Autometer Sport Comp Oil press.
Autometer Sport Comp Water temp
Greddy Profec B Spec II
Apexi Turbo Timer
I'll add what ever I forgot later.
I have parts all over the place so it will take time to get all the pictures. here is what pictures I have right now


My car as it sits now



Walbro Fuel pump


My Down Pipe


My Baby

My HKS Carbon TI muffler 3 inch inlet, 4 3/4 inch outlet

This is what I have pictures of right now. I have parts scattered in three different homes. I'll get pictures of everything dont worry



Right now 5/26/05 I have almost everything for the swap. In the next two weeks my clip will be delivered to my home by JARCO. At that time this thread will be come more technical. I'll try to keep a step by step account of everything. I will also have some videos of a few parts of the swap.
I'll also end all your worries about the motor mounts, I'll clearly lay it out for you with measurements. You DONT have to weld the mounts in. I'm not sure about the wiring yet. so maybe one of you guys might want to do a write up about it. And I'll quote it in later on.

UPDATE:6/7/05 I'm going through the longest week ever. On saturday my clip will be delivered. Spec Stage 3 clutch is on the way, Next week the pictures start.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Update: 6/14/05 I got my clip over the weekend, and I couldnt be happier.





Ok so this thing is huge make sure you have enough room for the swap.
only thing I can really say right now is, get the clip on some jeck stands and start taking it apart.

Where do I start. Well, I pulled the wiring harness from inside the car out and layed across the top of the engine. I pulled the throttle cable, save it you will need it for your swap. Then I pulled all the other wiring and hoses that connect the engine to the body. Make sure you label everything ! Take pictures if you need to, whatever will help you remember where everything goes. if all goes well you should have somthing that looks like this.



Dont forget to pull coolant hoses, shifter cables,axles, radiator and whatever other small things that may hold the engine in or get in the way.

Raditator

Now before you lift the engine out you still have some things that need to be done.

Like removing the intercooler, just so it doesnt get damaged when you pull the engine.



Then the mounts, a 17mm socket will undo all the mounts. The rear mount will be the hardest and most dangerous. But I will post a way to get around this problem. I hope my idea will work.


After everything is pulled the engine should come out with little trouble.
Next update, I'll have the engine pulled and my parts being installed to the 3sgte

As it sits right now, waiting to be plucked.


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: defgeph Sep 12, 2005 - 8:31 AM

So I guess its time for an update.........

The 3s is out and so is the 7a !

With the help a few friends, we managed to get most of the gaskets and seals done on the 3sgte. Do all the maintenance with the engine out it will make your life easier in the long run.

Empty engine bay


Flywheel and clutch install
Fidanza wheel and Spec stage 3 clutch


The down pipe


The 3s and 7a side by side


the mount area I will go into full detail about this part when I get to it.



I think thats it for now, I'll keep this updated. :wiggle:

DEF

Posted by: defgeph Sep 12, 2005 - 8:32 AM

Inside the two red circles is where you need to drill. The chassis is already marked for the holes that need to be drilled. you need a long 3/8 drill bit for metal.


Sears item #00966062000 its like 12.99

I installed all the other engine mounts then bolted this mount to the engine and then I drilled out the holes. after I bolted the mount down using locktite and nylon nuts.


You're going to have to do some grinding on the passenger side engine mount bracket. you have to grind down the hump thats on this bracket in order for it to fit on the 3sgte.

Below are some examples of what you need to do.




6th gen and 5th gen Crossmembers

See totally different. Use the 6th gen members with the correct mounts


Ok, I think we went over all the steps. Lets drop that engine in.
Make sure your engine harness has been converted properly. install it on the engine before you drop it in.
Start with the driver side mount first, then front and back mounts. Save the Passenger side mount for Last if you have an ST. With all the other mounts bolted up you should be lined up perfect for the two holes you need to drill.







Once you have all the mounts in, start putting it all back together.
By this point you know every nut and bolt on ur car, so it starts to get easier.

in a couple of hours you should be sitting on all fours.
Something like this.


Clean your self up and take it for a spin. Dont forget to break the clutch in.


I have two other threads about my exhaust setup

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29367
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33876


Enjoy,
Defgeph

PS. if I left anything out I'll fill it in later

Posted by: Akimbo Sep 12, 2005 - 9:05 AM

sexy...you make it sound so easy too. What happened to your enkeis btw?

Posted by: ILuvMyCelica95 Sep 12, 2005 - 9:07 AM

Jeff

Posted by: defgeph Sep 12, 2005 - 9:08 AM

Rubber is too thin.


Thanks guys

Posted by: Batman722 Sep 12, 2005 - 10:27 AM

great post guy.

Posted by: Yota Sep 12, 2005 - 3:23 PM

Is the cross member from your ST? Or was that from the clip?

Posted by: defgeph Sep 12, 2005 - 6:35 PM

Hey try reading the how-to next time lol, the answer is in post number 4
Yes I used my ST cross member, the st185 does not fit.

I showed a picture to refrence.

DEF

Posted by: Yota Sep 12, 2005 - 11:17 PM

whoops...i read it wrong. Sorry...

Posted by: steve0178 Sep 13, 2005 - 11:55 PM

so you finished it all up huh? sweet thanks for the update. I just bought my front clip so now i get to start the fun

Posted by: st202gt Sep 15, 2005 - 6:20 PM

where did u get the clips from and how much?

Posted by: MonsterBOX Sep 18, 2005 - 1:57 AM

how long did it take u start to finish in total hours working, what bout wiring

Posted by: defgeph Sep 18, 2005 - 9:20 AM

2 1/2 months worth of weekends, DGperformance did the wiring.


DEF

Posted by: brianforster Feb 11, 2006 - 1:16 PM

you make it sound so easy

Posted by: brianforster Feb 22, 2006 - 11:03 PM

so wait, did you run a 13.9 with tmic?

Posted by: defgeph Feb 22, 2006 - 11:07 PM

Yes I did. On 205/40/R17 Falken Zeix 512's

Posted by: brianforster Feb 22, 2006 - 11:10 PM

wow nice... intercoolers do not increase hp but just run your setup cooler right? to allow for more boost? with a decent intercooler setup what kind of stock boost can you run on the 3sgte?

also a question for you since yo useem to be online and i have no one else to ask..

are the power steering lines and ac lines useable from the stock GT stuff? and condensor too.

and whats the diff between the 3sgte rc and normal? im trying to search but the terms are coming up too short

Posted by: defgeph Feb 22, 2006 - 11:29 PM

1. Yeah the GT lines will work. I believe you can leave ur 5sfe AC pump and bolt it to the 3SGTE, then just wire it up.

2. The differences are the ST185 uses air to cool the intercooler, it sits above the engine soaking in all the heat. It's a horrible design. Most people run an aftermarket front mount.

The ST185RC is water cooled, work very well. It gets so cold the intake manifold becomes cool as well(idling). I run anywhere from 12 to 15 psi, thats where the 3sgte comes alive.

Hope this helps

Posted by: brianforster Feb 22, 2006 - 11:32 PM

oh really, do you think it woudl be cheaper to run a water to air tmic than a fully custom fmic? on an engine with currently no intercooler..

Posted by: defgeph Feb 22, 2006 - 11:35 PM

I'm not sure if it will be cheaper, but its definatley something to look into.
You might find some nice water setups on ebay.

If I did it all over, I would still run water.
Turbo Lag = 0 for me

Posted by: brianforster Feb 22, 2006 - 11:37 PM

thats interesting.. so i dont have to keep picking your brain, do you know of any in depth guides to water cooling?

i doubt i could find a full setup for sale that will bolt right on, im sure that would be too easy

Posted by: defgeph Feb 22, 2006 - 11:40 PM

Dont worry about the questions, I'm here to help.
Not sure of any write ups, somebody might chime in with one.

I can list parts
1. intercooler
2. water pump
3. Heat exchanger (like a small radiator for the from of the car)
4. hoses to connect everything

And that about covers it.

Posted by: brianforster Feb 22, 2006 - 11:41 PM

cool, perhaps ill have to look into that, except it seems like the parts would be really hard to find

Posted by: defgeph Feb 22, 2006 - 11:47 PM

ST185RC IC setup



ST205 IC setup


This should help you

Posted by: brianforster Feb 22, 2006 - 11:50 PM

thanks man you are awesome! now i just gotta learn how to read diagrams like this hehe

Posted by: defgeph Feb 22, 2006 - 11:53 PM

The 205 picture is easier to understand

to the left is the heat exchanger (looks like a radiator)

Bottom right is the water pump

Top middle is the intercooler

some hoses that connect everything.


and other parts that you dont need to worry about.

Posted by: WannabeGT4 Feb 23, 2006 - 9:30 AM

Since this thread is active again I've got a couple questions...

1. Which fuel lines can be used to connect the 3SGTE fuel rail to the filter? 3SGTE or 5SFE?

2. Which heater hoses will I need to use? 5SFE, 3SGTE, or custom?

3. Which radiator hoses should be used? 5SFE, 3SGTE, or custom?

Also, you might include in this How-to what you did to fix your error codes that were caused by the W/A intercooler ECU or lack there of.

Posted by: defgeph Feb 23, 2006 - 9:58 AM

1. 3s fuel line to the GT filter
2. I used the 3sgte heater hoses
3. I have an ST radiator. I used 3sgte for the top. And I made my own hybrid lower hose. using a GT lower and some other hose that fit.
If you have a GT just use the GT lower


Thats a good idea about the ECU, maybe I'll do that.

Posted by: WannabeGT4 Feb 23, 2006 - 12:01 PM

Thanks, but let me make sure I'm getting this right since you were swapping into an ST...
5SFE fuel line from rail to filter will not work?
5SFE heater hoses will not work?
5SFE upper radiator hose will not work?
I realise that you may not know since you had a 7AFE but maybe someone else could answer for sure.

Also did you retain the EVAP system?

Posted by: defgeph Feb 23, 2006 - 12:04 PM

The 5sfe stuff will probably work. I like to use the 3sgte hoses, less things to remember.

By EVAP do you mean the charcoal canister ? or the a/c evaporater ?

Posted by: WannabeGT4 Feb 23, 2006 - 1:09 PM

Yeah I know what you mean by less things to remember but it'd be nice to know what is compatible... Hopefully someone that has swapped into a GT will chime in.

Evaporative Emissions... just curious if you kept it, not that it matters.

Posted by: playr158 Feb 23, 2006 - 11:02 PM

i'm just wondering do we have the
96+ ST wiring harness diagrams and the
st185 wiringing diagrams?

Posted by: defgeph Feb 24, 2006 - 12:46 AM

I have the hose from the engine to the canister connected, I beleive the purge is just left open.

Posted by: WannabeGT4 Feb 27, 2006 - 11:27 AM

I haven't found the OBDII diagrams for either the AT200 or the ST204. Some one will either have to scan them or pay for a subscription to TIS... http://techinfo.toyota.com/

The ST185 diagrams can be found here:
90/91 - http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/90ewd/90celica_ewd.php
92/93 - http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/93tech/

The 93 BGB is almost complete but the menu for volume two is apparently MIA so I just use the directory listing to navigate both volumes.
http://www.celicatech.com/93rmsour/1993/93celica/
This scan will tell you exactly what each folder in the directory listing contains:
http://www.celicatech.com/93rmsour/1993/93celica/contents.jpg

Posted by: defgeph Mar 7, 2006 - 10:38 AM

A few new things going on with my engine. I ordered an ATS fuel rail which should be here by the end of this week.

I also had my injectors tested and cleaned.


Now I can say I have no worries at all.

Posted by: playr158 Mar 7, 2006 - 12:15 PM

very nice jeff!

Posted by: presure2 Mar 7, 2006 - 1:09 PM

good stuff jeff.
good to see that the injectors wernt in bad condition, but always better to KNOW theyre clean!

Posted by: x_itchy_b_x Mar 7, 2006 - 1:47 PM

awesome. im gunna have to check that place out.
always nice to know.

Posted by: defgeph Mar 8, 2006 - 2:46 AM

The turn around was super fast. I sent these out 2nd day air on Monday, got them back Friday. Small price to pay to know everything is working the way it should.


Thanks guys,
DEF

Posted by: defgeph Mar 17, 2006 - 2:20 AM

More goodies for the Beast

ATS fuel rail

Stock left - ATS right

Posted by: Cavanagh Mar 21, 2006 - 10:42 PM

Wow your a beast and i give you props...I have a 93 st which i plan to do what you did and i was wondering where you got that front clip from? Also, (this might sound cheesey) but how mehicanical are you? because i somewhat know car engines but is it SUPER difficult,moderate, etc?

Posted by: playr158 Mar 21, 2006 - 10:58 PM

swappage is a rating of like 7 or 8 outta 10 imo on the mechanical side of things

i believe jeff got his clip from JARCO
but there are far better deals on clips around the net

Posted by: brianforster Mar 21, 2006 - 11:05 PM

id say the swap used to be hard because of the wiring, but with guys like tweak and dg, if you send out your harness and get it back working, its hardly more work than swapping out your old motor (well, in a GT)

Posted by: x_itchy_b_x Mar 21, 2006 - 11:15 PM

oh jeeze. what goes along with more fuel? more boost.
sweet man.

Posted by: speedy Mar 23, 2006 - 4:01 PM

hey defgeph where did u get those pictures for the TICs and heat exchangers . if it was from toyota what did u give them to get the pics?

Posted by: celicast3sgte Mar 23, 2006 - 7:28 PM

Off topic but i live like... 10 min from bothell-everett hwy. ill have to go check out that shop. how much did it cost you to have them clean, checked, and balanced?

Posted by: defgeph Mar 24, 2006 - 1:42 AM

Friends from the internet hooked me up with these pics. What is it that you need ? I might be able to help you.





$60 total $15 per injector. For that price they test, clean, and re-test the injectors. Then they express ship them back.

Posted by: bigal004321 Mar 24, 2006 - 2:01 AM

Is that a pretty good idea to do, have the injectors checked?

Bigal

Posted by: Silver94CelicaOwner Mar 24, 2006 - 2:01 PM

If you're like most swappers and get an engine clip, you never know what sort of condition the injectors might have been in once you get it.
Most of the time the company that sold you the clip or motor will only give you the compression figures which only tells you a little bit, so its probably a good idea to check little things like your injectors, plugs, etc.

Never hurts to get them checked and cleaned, and always better to know that when you crank the boost up your motor wont go *pop*.

Posted by: bigal004321 Mar 24, 2006 - 2:36 PM

True that..ill have to remember that!

bigal

Posted by: speedy Mar 25, 2006 - 9:30 PM

as far as the diagrams i was just wondering seeing the pictures and info helps me understand everything and break it down... u know basically for my own common knowledge.

Posted by: Emperor-Viper Jun 22, 2006 - 8:48 PM

What was the grand total this swap cost you to complete if u stated this already im sorry i must have missed it. Also you said you used the st185 thats the 5th gen right? Is there a major difference between that and the st205 6th gen. Would it be an easier swap or harder you think to use the st205 im sure its more costly though.

Posted by: defgeph Jun 22, 2006 - 11:44 PM

Because my car was originally an ST, it was a little more expensive for me. I had to buy a tranny, mounts, axles, and shifter cables.

Just talking about the engine, tranny and swap related parts, I think I'm just under 5,000.

I bought a 5th gen RC clip. I was dead set on W/A intercooler, and a st205 clip was and still is a very expensive item. So I went with the RC.

Which is better ? They are both great engines. Both have the excellent Toyota quality. Its all about what your goals are, what will make you happy. You can make a ST185 engine put out just as much as a ST205 engine. Its all about what you put into it. I'm not knocking the 205, I love it. JMO

Posted by: Emperor-Viper Jun 23, 2006 - 1:23 AM

well then i appreciate the response good to know it was only around 5000 it gives me hope that i can accomplish that now lol i gotta buy a new celica then get the motor swapped after i get the body how i want it....

Posted by: C3L1CA Jun 29, 2006 - 10:22 AM

Is it just my crappy computer or do some of the pics not show up?

Posted by: defgeph Jun 29, 2006 - 10:29 AM

Its just your computer, they all loaded for me. Is there a picture not shown that you would like to see ?

Posted by: C3L1CA Jun 29, 2006 - 10:35 AM

Hmm my computer does like to do this to me every once and a while. I'll have to look at the pics on a different computer because quite a few weren't showing up. Thanks though and great write up, I should be looking at this and reading this a lot before this up coming winter

Posted by: CelicaGT04 Jul 9, 2006 - 4:42 PM

Def, you are very knowlegeable about the 3sgte ST185 swap into a celica. I have looked at your post and read everything you have written. Your car is amazing and all the time and work you have put into it is respectable! I have been saving for my ST185 front clip that i am going to order within the next few weeks and i just have a few questions. I would like to ask if i can use the 5SFE tranny without having to get a 3SGTE disk with 5SFE splines? Also if i get a 3SGE tranny i would need the 3SGE axels with 5SFE(GT) cables?
On to the wiring, i have many, many questions about the wiring. The mechanical seems quite easy, but the wiring is becoming more and more a headache as i find out more. I would just like to ask, did you try to fabricate the 3SGTE wiring harness yourself before sending to DGPerformance? How much was the cost for the harness to be completed? Did you have to remove your 5SFE harness to send? or did you send the one that came with your clip (If applicable)? The wiring and tranny are all that i am needing help with up to this point. If you could please be so kind as to educate me in the fields i have requested it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mario

Posted by: defgeph Jul 9, 2006 - 7:11 PM

1. Could you do it ? sure. I WILL NOT recommend doing it that way. The right way is get a 3sgte disk and matching the splines with a 5sfe tranny.

2. If you have a gt already I wouldnt bother getting a tranny. But if you do buy one, yes is my answer to number 2. I have not tryed driving my car with GT axles. I know they fit, but I dont know if they would work.

3. No, sent everything to him. He's awesome at wiring !

4. I cant remember, sorry.

5. You have to send him both harnesses, ST or GT. And the harness from your clip. You will also need to send him the fuel pump relay, located in the engine bay from the clip. This relay would be in a black box bolted to the frame next to the AC compressor.

GL
DEF

Posted by: CelicaGT04 Jul 9, 2006 - 7:57 PM

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply! I will try to get in touch with DG soon so i can talk to him about cost and time. Thanks!

Posted by: the4banger Jul 25, 2006 - 9:33 AM

this is a great thread how can you put the all track tranny in the st ? im totaly lost i thought that demands power from all wheels?

Posted by: Kadett Jul 25, 2006 - 9:55 AM

Unless you convert it to FWD. Can be done but you also need parts from another tranny.

Posted by: funnys_tears Oct 31, 2006 - 7:17 AM

i NEED to know 2nd genration of 3sge tranny, i did a swap but i was using the all track stage 3 clutch.. when i match the tranny pine core of 3sge and 3sgte tranny, they both have differen pine core for the clutch, 3sge pine core is small then 3sgte..
but i like to know where i can find the right clutch to fit my 3sge tranny... cuz the flywheel is little small then the 3sgte tranny..

HOW CAN I FIND A CLUTCH THAT 2ND GENRATION OF 3SGTE TRANNY..
CAN YOU PLZ HELP ME PLZ..??
THANK FOR UR TIME!!

Posted by: hashmaster52 Feb 22, 2007 - 1:02 AM

so the 3sge tranny bolts right up just like the 5sfe tranny? theyre so hard to come across tho, unless im searchin the wrong sites...i cant seem to find one. whats the name of the 3sge tranny? i know the gt is like an s54, but whats the 3sge? iono what to type in when i search

Posted by: cjh4l22 Feb 22, 2007 - 6:43 AM

awesome dude awesome thread!! really glad you posted this because i was looking to do this in a few months (come summer..) Please ask if Christian will move this to the How-To-Articles!

Posted by: quicknstyle Feb 22, 2007 - 11:56 AM

its in the stickies homie

Posted by: defgeph Feb 22, 2007 - 12:51 PM

Might want to try searching JDM S54, or 3sge transmission.

Posted by: hashmaster52 Feb 22, 2007 - 1:48 PM

ooooh...so i guess the 3sge tranny is just a jdm version of the gt or somethin...thx

Posted by: hashmaster52 Feb 22, 2007 - 9:39 PM

well i searched a bunch of places n no luck.....anybody have any links to where i can find a tranny for the 3s swap (preferably a 3sge tranny, but e153 will do as well)? thx

Posted by: quicknstyle Feb 23, 2007 - 1:01 PM

as far as most people can tell the 3sge and gt tranny are exactly the same, just check out your local yards to find a gt tranny

Posted by: phattyduck Feb 23, 2007 - 5:57 PM

They probably have different gearing/final drive... but the basic tranny is still the same.

-Charlie

Posted by: celicaST Feb 23, 2007 - 10:16 PM

correct, same tranny, just different final drives

S54: 3.285, 1.960, 1.322, 1.028, 0.820 / FD: 3.944, 4.176
-3.944 diff found in jdm/uk 2nd and 3rd gen 3sge
-4.176 diff found in mk2 mr2 NA and 6gc GT

Posted by: hashmaster52 Feb 24, 2007 - 11:44 AM

sry, but what exactly does that mean?

Posted by: 97rocket Feb 26, 2007 - 5:08 PM

so i need a little of help selling my 97 st but im putting a new motor in for him and i was looking at getting a 3sge clip from a mr2 and was wondering if i can do this or will i need a clip from another celica because of the mounting. im getting it from a mr2 beacuse that will be my next car so i can part the rest of it out and turbo it.

Posted by: 95CelicaST Feb 26, 2007 - 6:31 PM

You would need to rewire a harness, fab some GT engine mounts, new trans. mounts. etc. If you want to put a newer engine into your ST I would suggest you find an "A" series engine, not an "S" series. Something like a 4AGE from a MKI MR2 or an AE92 Corolla GT-S. Also a Silvertop 4AGE from overseas would be good. If you are lucky you might be able to find a 4A-GZE from a MKI MR2, I believe starting in 1988.

Posted by: 97rocket Feb 27, 2007 - 3:45 PM

so its pretty useless to try and put a 3sge in it?

Posted by: 95CelicaST Feb 27, 2007 - 5:36 PM

its not "useless", it just isn't cost effective if you are looking to sell it. You won't get nearly as much $ back as you put into it.

Posted by: Bradley Oct 27, 2007 - 8:42 PM

amazing post... i think because of this im going to go ahead and try this..... 2 questions how does the car feel, easy to drive or does torque steer make it difficult and where do you think i could get a good deal on a good clip

Posted by: Defgeph Oct 29, 2007 - 8:51 PM

The car feels effin amazing. Torque steer is what makes the drive fun. Its not as bad as you may think, I have no problems controlling the car.

I can only recommend Jarcoinc. They are the best importers IMO, you will have all the infomation layed out for you before you purchase your clip. They will even send you a video of your car running before they cut it in half. They are pricey, but you get what you pay for. I never had any doubts with this company.


Edit: Thanks for reading the stickies

Good luck,
DEF

Posted by: JRB8 Oct 30, 2007 - 8:05 AM

ive been trying to get up with jarcoinc to get a clip and they have none right now.... and he keeps trying to sell me a engine set... anywere else thats good that anyone knows of

Posted by: Lil-Joe101 Dec 31, 2008 - 5:36 AM

Can a 3sfe tranny bolt up to a 3sgt? I know the 5s tranny can. But wut about the 3sfe tranny. Yes or no?

Posted by: presure2 Dec 31, 2008 - 5:45 AM

joe, i would imagine the 3sfe tranny is an s54, same as the 5s tranny, although i cant be sure.

if it is, it will bolt up.

Posted by: Lil-Joe101 Dec 31, 2008 - 6:09 AM

Thanx for the clarification pressure, Looks like Im buying a new 3sgte this weekend.

Posted by: presure2 Dec 31, 2008 - 6:19 AM

joe, if i can give a peice of advice, it would be dont skimp, buy a 3rd gen.
newer motor, newer electronics, (the wiring is MUUUUCCHHH easier) a much better choice overall for a 6th gen chassis.

Posted by: DEATH Dec 31, 2008 - 9:59 AM

x2 and 25HP out the box doesn't hurt anything either I wouldn't let it kill a great deal or anything but I'd definetely opt for the 3rd gen [Stay away from a 1st Gen]

Posted by: Defgeph Dec 31, 2008 - 5:44 PM

X's 3

Posted by: Dr_Tweak Jan 1, 2009 - 12:25 PM

Yeah, or go for the 4th gen. They're the same price and you get a little more power and some nice features, like coil-on-plug ignition, awesome side-feed manifold, 2 3/4" throttle body, etc. It seems like 4th gen 3SGTEs is all we have around here lately

-Doc

Posted by: Dragondog Mar 11, 2009 - 6:38 PM

maybe i missed it but when switchin tranny did u have to use hibrid drive shafts and in ur opinion what is the better traany to go with as far as holdin up to high hp........if u can give me a rundown detailed

Posted by: _Jim_ Mar 11, 2009 - 9:24 PM

LSD E153 FTW

Posted by: Dragondog Mar 12, 2009 - 3:43 AM

kool ignor last post iv been answerd the e153 has lsd and will need inner mr2 shafts and outter st205 shafts

Posted by: Euphoria Sep 21, 2009 - 12:35 AM

this is a great write up, everything is put basic and is easy to understand, I think my friends and I are capable of the swap its just the wiring im worried about, in Australia we dont have DGPerformance so what type of shop would I have to send my car to, to get it wired with EVERYTHING WORKING.

Posted by: presure2 Sep 21, 2009 - 5:08 AM

dr tweak can definetly hook you up with a plug and play harness or art (lagos)i think has been doing a couple harnesses lately.

Posted by: 95st-celica Sep 21, 2009 - 12:36 PM

yea tweak would be the man to talk to...lagos did mine but i dont know how inclined he would be to do another? lol...but thats something you can ask him....good luck with it though

BTW..whats next on the list for the car def. anything? or is it sittin on the back burner for now

Posted by: Detatch Sep 28, 2009 - 6:00 AM

with additional mods (bigger turbo, lighter flywheel, etc.) the 5s tranny might not be able to hold that kind of power... any information on transmissions in particular? i'm thinking to use the E-153, but issues i found online were the axles not fitting properly (too loose), the CV boots ripping, etc...

any help on that would be much appreciated, and it does pertain to a 3S-GTE swap, as it's one other thing to assist in the engine reaching it's potential once in without destroying the car, driver, and itself....

Posted by: mjperno Feb 15, 2010 - 3:04 PM

hey guys i have a 96 7afe and want to do a 3s swap. if i buy a 94+ mr2 rear cut will it have most of the things i need except for the exhaust? i figured since it was a 3s it would have the same motor mounts any help would be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: _Jim_ Feb 15, 2010 - 3:24 PM

No, the Mr2 3sgte has different mounts, brackets, engine harness, etc. You want an ST205 engine. I have several in stock, along with the E153 LSD transmission...PM me for pricing if interested.

Posted by: cibrit- Feb 16, 2010 - 6:08 PM

You should feel real special. This is one post that is really long that I have read

Amazingly easy write-up, now I know more about my 3sgte swap .

Posted by: block Feb 18, 2010 - 6:51 PM

where are you located? are you selling clips? i'm thinking about gettin' back into the celica scene. just have a nice project to work on during the weekends. lmk what you got.

Posted by: _Jim_ Feb 18, 2010 - 7:40 PM

Yes, I sell clips. I have one coming in within the next 3 weeks but the engine is spoken for already, but the body panels and everything else are available. PM me for information. For everyone else interested in more information about purchasing a GEN3 3sgte or font half cut...please PM me so we dont clutter up this thread.

Posted by: Por2geezcelica Feb 26, 2010 - 9:46 PM

as far as emissions go, is it possible to do a 3sgte swap in a 96 st, and still be able to pass emission tests? With the obd2 computer i will need to do an emission test every year. Have you guys been able to pass emissions?

Posted by: Batman722 Feb 27, 2010 - 12:21 AM

nope.

Posted by: speed-CCNP Feb 28, 2010 - 1:38 PM

i have not passed in the 2 years since i did the swap. i have to pay $14 bucks a month to keep failing.

Posted by: 95st-celica Feb 28, 2010 - 2:02 PM

who cares about emissions?

Posted by: lagos Feb 28, 2010 - 3:31 PM

lol i pass every year!

Posted by: DJim May 6, 2010 - 5:45 PM

i've looked and looked all over but i cant seem to find the answer to my questions
i also want to swap in a 3sgte, 3rd gen preferably. but will it pass emissions? do i have anything to worry about in that category?
it seems like you kept your car FWD? i want to make mine AWD, how possible is that?

Posted by: pittfirefighter May 6, 2010 - 5:51 PM

AWD is possible... Jim is in the middle of his right now, Pipes is done and running for over a year now... it will not pass emissions or a legit shop inspection in most states depending on how strict your laws are.... my 3s swap gets both done every year... i drive it less than 5000 miles a year so it is emissions exempt and i know a guy to pass the inspection... a swapped motor will not match vin numbers so thats an immediate fail in any state that does an inspection

Posted by: DJim May 6, 2010 - 6:13 PM

thanks for your help pittfirefighter
so the only way is to pay a guy to pass... haha right?

Posted by: pittfirefighter May 6, 2010 - 6:20 PM

once again it depends on your state and who you know... MOST shops dont go as far as to check vin numbers of engine vs. body, but they could if they want to... so just keep that in mind... if it looks like the swap was put together in 5 min... then they will probably investigate more

Posted by: DJim May 7, 2010 - 4:02 PM

thanks for the info

Posted by: Defgeph Sep 12, 2010 - 4:33 PM

Got to work on my car for the first time this year!

I pulled put my ST radiator, installed a GT that I had in the garage, plugged in the coolant temp sensor on the GT radiator, BAM the fans operate normally! I am sooo happy, this has annoyed me since the swap.

It was nice to work on the car, its been waaay to long.

Posted by: presure2 Sep 12, 2010 - 4:55 PM

awesome, jeff!

Posted by: Defgeph Sep 12, 2010 - 5:40 PM

The fans seemed to drain a bit of power too, with the fans running the car would idle rough, fans off, car idles smooth. Still a little high around 1,100 rpm, but smooth.

I'm going back up next weekend to do some more work on it.
Going to install the new brakes and rotors, I need to find some POR15 get those calipers painted, going to replace the distributor O rings and bearing knock out that oil leak.

Posted by: Batman722 Sep 12, 2010 - 7:07 PM

win.

Posted by: seth199232 Dec 16, 2011 - 2:10 AM

Hey guys I am new to this an have never done an engine swap. I have a 94 gt 5sfe that I lookin 2 swap a st205 engine an trans and make it AWD. What additional parts besides the front clip will I need to perform this?

Posted by: richee3 Dec 16, 2011 - 2:11 PM

Easy there, tiger. One thing at a time. If you've never done a motor swap, you'll want to start with that. Jumping into a swap AND an AWD conversion gives too much possibility for too many things to go wrong. The information is on this site, just look for the members pipes and czwalga. They both have threads about AWD conversions. It's not easy on a 6th gen. It's all custom. Just start reading around, you'd be surprised by what you can learn

Posted by: SupraKid Dec 16, 2011 - 7:06 PM

Posted by: amilleri Jan 25, 2013 - 10:03 PM

Was wondering if you had a estimate of how much everything cost? I'm getting a 97 celica st soon and plan on doing the swap sometime next year of course I'm going to need someone to do it for me out here in CT, so I'm more looking for how much all the parts are going to cost, I'll figure out labor by looking around.

Posted by: SwissFerdi Jan 26, 2013 - 8:56 AM

If you're paying someone else to buy an engine and swap it in, figure at least $3000.

Posted by: diegohiga Jan 26, 2013 - 10:24 AM

haha i wish it cost $3k but thats not even close. if you dont have the car yet get a gt not a st. if you get the gt you will be abke to use thr tranny and engine mounts. the st tranny wont fit the 3S and engine mounts will be different too. i would suggest to get a front CLIP! dont get get the engine by its self. you will bbr missing a lot of hard parts to find + expensive when sold separately. so this is about how much you are going to spend:

clip 3000-4000 depending on the miles and if it includes gt4 hood, bumper and fenders.
clutch 400 is better to install a new one
modify harness 350
exhaust 500 (gt exhaust is too small so you need to make a whole new exhaust)
so far is about $5000 in parts only. and you want someone to do the swap for you so thats another 800 maybe??

or you can buy a celica w/ a 3s swap already from a member on the forum.

Posted by: cmayes11 Jan 28, 2013 - 12:50 AM

I would love to buy a front clip but I have absolutely no place to put it. I'll probably just buy another 5s....

Posted by: diegohiga Jan 28, 2013 - 8:48 AM

my buddy doesnt have space either and he rents a storage for $80 a month. he just go there at any time and works on his car.

Posted by: rave2n Jan 28, 2013 - 8:54 AM

Thats where I stored my parts til I got space

Posted by: mkernz22 Sep 23, 2015 - 1:13 PM

Even 10 years later this thread is still useful had to figure out the passenger side engine mount bracket.

Posted by: Smaay Oct 2, 2015 - 9:55 AM

there is some good info on this thread but there is also some mis-leading info.

the OP used a ST185 engine so he had to grind the engine mount. If you use a 3rd gen, you dont have to do this.

also you cant use an MR2 turbo trans without making mojor mods to it. the linkage is on the other side. you can use a Camry or Solara trans. they both are E153 with the newer synros, just the camry/solara does not have the LSD like the MR2.