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> How to make AC work with your swap, aka: Need help with AC wiring thread
post Jul 22, 2006 - 12:46 AM
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lagos



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whats the deal with the AC idle up valve? i see it in the wiring diagrams for the 5th gen setup, but it dosnt exist in any of the 6th gen wiring diagrams. did toyota change the way the AC idles up in the 6th gen?


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 1:15 AM
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WannabeGT4



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http://www.celicatech.com/vfewdsou/1995/95...ic/engcon5s.pdf


Unless something changed from '95 to '99 then:
plug E5 pin 7 "ISCV" on the 5SFE ECU controls the A/C idle up VSV.

plug E5 pin 21 "ISC" on the auto 7AFE ECU controls the A/C idle up VSV.
plug E5 pin 23 "ISC" on the manual 7AFE ECU controls the A/C idle up VSV.


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 1:46 AM
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lagos



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ah ha! nice find.

i was looking at the AC specific diagrams and wondering why it wasnt there.

so it seams like there is a problem with adding AC idle up. on the 3sgte the idle up control is done by the AC amp.

in the 6th gen the AC amp dosnt have this function, because it is handled by the ECU.

so it seems there is no way to do it the way it is from the factory.

since the Idle up, only gets triggered when the AC clutch engages, i was thinking that maybe i can get it to work by splicing into the blac/white wire that supplies power to engage the cltuch on the AC compressor. this way, every time the clutch would come on (and make the rpm's dip down) the AC idle up would get 12v, and open its vac ports and make the car idle up. what do you guys think?


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 6:07 AM
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QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 22, 2006 - 6:46 AM) [snapback]459388[/snapback]

ah ha! nice find.

i was looking at the AC specific diagrams and wondering why it wasnt there.

so it seams like there is a problem with adding AC idle up. on the 3sgte the idle up control is done by the AC amp.

in the 6th gen the AC amp dosnt have this function, because it is handled by the ECU.

so it seems there is no way to do it the way it is from the factory.

since the Idle up, only gets triggered when the AC clutch engages, i was thinking that maybe i can get it to work by splicing into the blac/white wire that supplies power to engage the cltuch on the AC compressor. this way, every time the clutch would come on (and make the rpm's dip down) the AC idle up would get 12v, and open its vac ports and make the car idle up. what do you guys think?


Yes, that's exactly right. The best thing to do is actually have the clutch wire go through a relay, and have the relay switch on a VSV. The only downside to this is that it will be on all the time, even when you're not at idle. It will work though, just make sure that one side of the VSV goes to the manifold and the other side goes to the intake behind the AFM.

Good job putting it together and congrats!

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jul 22, 2006 - 6:12 AM


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 7:59 AM
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WannabeGT4



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Couldn't you use the IDL signal from the TPS to prevent the VSV from opening when ever you're not at idle? It might be more trouble than it's worth but I don't see why it wouldn't work.


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 8:07 AM
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presure2



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Art,
great to see you tackle this project and work it all out.
added to the sticky!
=)


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 9:09 AM
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lagos



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QUOTE(Dr_Tweak @ Jul 22, 2006 - 7:07 AM) [snapback]459423[/snapback]

QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 22, 2006 - 6:46 AM) [snapback]459388[/snapback]

ah ha! nice find.

i was looking at the AC specific diagrams and wondering why it wasnt there.

so it seams like there is a problem with adding AC idle up. on the 3sgte the idle up control is done by the AC amp.

in the 6th gen the AC amp dosnt have this function, because it is handled by the ECU.

so it seems there is no way to do it the way it is from the factory.

since the Idle up, only gets triggered when the AC clutch engages, i was thinking that maybe i can get it to work by splicing into the blac/white wire that supplies power to engage the cltuch on the AC compressor. this way, every time the clutch would come on (and make the rpm's dip down) the AC idle up would get 12v, and open its vac ports and make the car idle up. what do you guys think?


Yes, that's exactly right. The best thing to do is actually have the clutch wire go through a relay, and have the relay switch on a VSV. The only downside to this is that it will be on all the time, even when you're not at idle. It will work though, just make sure that one side of the VSV goes to the manifold and the other side goes to the intake behind the AFM.

Good job putting it together and congrats!

-Doc



no relay needed! and it wouldnt be on all the time. the AC clutch gets cycled on and off ever few minutes by the evap temp sensor. it dosnt stay on all the time. so 12v comes on and off to the clutch on the AC comp, while you have your AC on in the car . by simply splicing into that wire, the car would idle up at the same exact time the cluch kicks in, and idle back down to normal, when the evap sesnor cycles the clutch off. if your ac was off, then the car would act normal because the clutch idle up wouldnt be getting any voltage.

EDIT: ah i get what your saying. the Vsv would also engage while you are driving. i wonder how much this would really effect the car while its driving. since the AC comp only makes the motor idle at about 50rpm less then normal when at idle.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 22, 2006 - 9:18 AM


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 9:26 AM
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WannabeGT4



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Like I said use the IDL signal from the TPS to trigger a relay that is powered by the AC magnetic clutch signal. That way the VSV will only come on under two conditions, 1. you're at idle and 2. your compressor clutch is engaged.



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post Jul 22, 2006 - 9:56 AM
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lagos



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yeah, your right, that would probably be the best way to do it.

do you know what kind of voltage the IDL singnal sends out at idle?


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 5:29 PM
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lagos



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i thought of another simple way of doing this. the basic problem is that with the AC on, the car idles too low. so you can also add the idle up in, simply by taping into any wire that gets 12v when the AC BUTTON (not clutch) is pressed. a good place for this would be to tap the purple wire that goes to the presure switch. this will make the car idle at something like 900 rpm, instead of the normal 800, and when the ac clutch comes on, it will only dip down to 850rpm and not the 700ish that makes the car idle crappy.

this way, you wont have any issues if the system making the rpm's jump up on their own while you are driving, and you wont have to mess with the TPS singal or use a relay.


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 10:26 PM
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WannabeGT4



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The whole purpose of the idle up VSV is to stabilize the idle when the clutch is engaged and there is an extra load on the engine. As you already pointed out, having the VSV engaged whenever the AC button is pressed will still cause a fluctuation in idle since the clutch is not constantly engaged when the AC button is pushed. A single relay triggered by the IDL signal to engage the VSV which is also powered by the AC magnetic clutch wire is probably you're best bet.


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post Jul 22, 2006 - 11:11 PM
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lagos



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QUOTE(WannabeGT4 @ Jul 22, 2006 - 11:26 PM) [snapback]459684[/snapback]

The whole purpose of the idle up VSV is to stabilize the idle when the clutch is engaged and there is an extra load on the engine. As you already pointed out, having the VSV engaged whenever the AC button is pressed will still cause a fluctuation in idle since the clutch is not constantly engaged when the AC button is pushed. A single relay triggered by the IDL signal to engage the VSV which is also powered by the AC magnetic clutch wire is probably you're best bet.



yeah, your right. that is the best way to do it.

im going to try a really simple idle up, first and see how i like it. the idle only really dips down by about 50rpm when the AC kicks on. so i dont think ill have to go through taping into the tps idle signall with a relay, to get it to do what i want. i also have feeling that even if you add the relay, its going to take second for the tps to send out and idle signal ,and the relay to click on, and it will never be a super smooth and perfect setup. even on a bone stock car, the idle is never 100% pefrect when the ac is on.


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post Jul 23, 2006 - 8:07 PM
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QUOTE(WannabeGT4 @ Jul 22, 2006 - 2:26 PM) [snapback]459447[/snapback]

Like I said use the IDL signal from the TPS to trigger a relay that is powered by the AC magnetic clutch signal. That way the VSV will only come on under two conditions, 1. you're at idle and 2. your compressor clutch is engaged.


That's a great idea.

-Doc


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post Jul 29, 2006 - 8:33 PM
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lagos



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so here is an update....

i added in the AC idle up system and it works great. all i did was tap into the black/white wire from the ac compressor, and ran that right to the AC vsv and from the vsv to ground. it ended up working very well.

i also noticed a benefit for doing it this way vs an idle relay. before without the idle up system, if i turned the ac on while driving, i would feel a loss in power from the engine. now with the vsv working at all times, i no longer feel the drop in power. also the car seems to have about the same power with the ac on as it does with it off.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 29, 2006 - 8:40 PM


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post Jul 30, 2006 - 2:57 PM
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QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 29, 2006 - 6:33 PM) [snapback]462999[/snapback]

so here is an update....

i added in the AC idle up system and it works great. all i did was tap into the black/white wire from the ac compressor, and ran that right to the AC vsv and from the vsv to ground. it ended up working very well.
That's a really good idea! Just make sure you turn off the A/C before you do any crazy full-throttle driving. You don't want to over-speed the compressor. smile.gif

-Charlie


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post Jul 30, 2006 - 3:12 PM
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lagos



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QUOTE(phattyduck @ Jul 30, 2006 - 3:57 PM) [snapback]463229[/snapback]

QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 29, 2006 - 6:33 PM) [snapback]462999[/snapback]

so here is an update....

i added in the AC idle up system and it works great. all i did was tap into the black/white wire from the ac compressor, and ran that right to the AC vsv and from the vsv to ground. it ended up working very well.
That's a really good idea! Just make sure you turn off the A/C before you do any crazy full-throttle driving. You don't want to over-speed the compressor. smile.gif

-Charlie



i dont think that would be a problem. the compressor has a speed sensor inside of it that tells the ac amp wants going on. the ac amp also gets a signal from the Tach so it knows what rpms you are at. so im sure there is some type of fail safe inside the ac amp that controls all that stuff.


i have to track down a mystery noise that im hearing. i hear something rattle around when the ac is on. when i put my clutch in, or turn the ac off, the noise goes away. at first i thought maybe my throw out bearing was making noised when the car idled too low, but now thats fixed and its still doing it. maybe the ac belt is too loose. ill have to go check it out.


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post Mar 4, 2008 - 12:02 PM
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Sorry to bring this back from the dead. I have a working AC but no idle up system. I was able to source an idle up unit off of MR2oc. I read through the entire thread and the wiring diagrams. I'm new to all this wiring stuff but I kinda got most of the issues involve in wiring the idle up unit.
My question is: Is splicing into the black/white AC compressor and grounding the other wire the final solution to the AC-on crappy idle issue? I'm about to attempt this and I'm wondering what is the final word on this.
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.


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post Mar 4, 2008 - 12:13 PM
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lagos



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QUOTE(malecrod @ Mar 4, 2008 - 12:02 PM) [snapback]649038[/snapback]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead. I have a working AC but no idle up system. I was able to source an idle up unit off of MR2oc. I read through the entire thread and the wiring diagrams. I'm new to all this wiring stuff but I kinda got most of the issues involve in wiring the idle up unit.
My question is: Is splicing into the black/white AC compressor and grounding the other wire the final solution to the AC-on crappy idle issue? I'm about to attempt this and I'm wondering what is the final word on this.
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.


Yes just splice into that black wire, or any wire that gets 12v when you push the AC button on.


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post Mar 4, 2008 - 7:31 PM
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QUOTE(lagos @ Mar 4, 2008 - 12:13 PM) [snapback]649048[/snapback]

QUOTE(malecrod @ Mar 4, 2008 - 12:02 PM) [snapback]649038[/snapback]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead. I have a working AC but no idle up system. I was able to source an idle up unit off of MR2oc. I read through the entire thread and the wiring diagrams. I'm new to all this wiring stuff but I kinda got most of the issues involve in wiring the idle up unit.
My question is: Is splicing into the black/white AC compressor and grounding the other wire the final solution to the AC-on crappy idle issue? I'm about to attempt this and I'm wondering what is the final word on this.
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.


Yes just splice into that black wire, or any wire that gets 12v when you push the AC button on.


Alright, thanks Art. I will go ahead and do that. Thanks


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