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> Rally Gt-Four Appareance, Pg. 5 for latest pics. Converting a Celica GT to a GT-Four Rally
post Jul 11, 2012 - 12:19 PM
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richee3



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I found both of our answers. The E154 CAN be converted to FWD, and if done incorrectly, it burns the center diff up. Here's the link:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...amp;mode=linear

QUOTE (LimitedGT4 @ May 17, 2011 - 11:27 AM) *
QUOTE (Batman722 @ May 17, 2011 - 10:38 AM) *
ok, some info.
converting the awd tranny to just fwd is not simple.
I would suggest you get a GT (s54) tranny and you need all the GT mounts. The mounts in your clip are for a different series tranny, just put them aside for now. You'll also need the GT axles.
You could use a different tranny (e153) from an MR2 turbo or late 90s Camry/Solara V6, but then you would need a custom axle set up, which would be st185 outers and MR2 turbo inners. Depending on the tranny, the inners may need to be machined to fit correctly. Also, you might want to custom fab a spacer on at least one of the axles, some people have problems without, some don't.

You need a clutch, each tranny uses a different set up.

Do you plan on doing any sort of maintenance on the motor ? like valve cover gasket, thermostat, plugs, wires, cap/rotor, timing belt, water pump, tensioners, seals ? If so, some of the parts are available in the US, some aren't. Decide what you want to do and start sourcing parts.

Doing a rhd conversion would be a little more time consuming. A few have done it, pipes and jmeyer for example, most don't bother.
You could just cut out the firewall of the clip and your car, weld the clip fw into your car and start swapping everything over like the column, rack, all the brake lines, ect. Then doing the interior you would swap over the wiring, dash, heater core, just everything everything from the clip to your car. Swapping just the climate control without everything else is a pain, some have tried and not many have succeded.

What do you plan on for an exhaust ? what size ? where are you gonna get it or have it done ?

IMO the first thing you need is research.
The best way to do a swap is to know (or al least have a very good idea of) what you need, what you need to do, then buying the motor.


Thanks for the advice ive done my reaserch but somethings were still unclear as no one single writeup addresses everythin
As far as the exhaust goes u got a pretty sweet setup but i think ill go for a 3" setup noy sure if the ones being sold for the st205
Are actually any good, anyways the tranny is the thing i cant decide on can someone shed some light on the 3sge tranny ive heard of people doing it
Anyone know how good is it compared to the s54 will i have to get a billion parts to make it work or is it more bolt on
And the reason am interested on using the awd is because i read a writeup that made it seem possible the question would be
Which one would be more cost effective if someone can let me know id appreciate it heres the writeup





from CTech by Torn.


"Im currently converting my AWD tranny that came with the 2nd gen 3sgte I used for my swap.


Converting the AWD to a FWD tranny is not as hard people would think, and when finished, it will be exactly as an MR2 tranny, except with the shifter cables already going in the right direction. Also, with this method, your center differential won't burn since it will be completly removed.


Goodies needed :


-Alltrac tranny.

-GT4 shift cables.

-MR2 turbo differential (open, OEM Toyota VLSD, aftermarket LSD)

-MR2 differential cover.

-Speedometer drive for the differential if it does not come with the diff.

-2 axles seals (optional, but recommended and cheap).

-1 set of alltrac outer axles.

-1 set of inner MR2 axle with passenger axle carrier (get LSD inner axles if going with the OEM Toyota MR2 turbo VLSD unit).

-A puller and access to a press to replace 5th gears on transmission.

-An Alltrac crossmember with the transmission rear mount (or modify your existing one).


I'll try to do a step by step guide (I will really need to post pictures later):


1 - Remove the transfer case by unbolting it from the bellhousing case. Inside this transfer case there is the gear that drives the propeller shaft (that goes to the rear differential). Also there is the center viscous coupling unit. Remove the transfer cases (3 parts) and everything inside. You won't need these anymore.


2 - Open transmission by removing 5th gear case. Remove 5th gears. Remove bellhousing case. Remove shifting forks. Finally you can remove the center/front differential from the bellhousing.


3 - Change drive axle oil seal from the bellhousing if your tranny has high milage (cheap at dealer).


4 - Buy an MR2 differential. I suggest getting an LSD unit, since opening that tranny is a pain and getting LSD with a 3sgte is a must IMHO You either can buy an open MR2 turbo diff, a OEM toyota VLSD diff, or better yet, aftermarket torsen diff. The MR2 differential will work perfectly in the AWD tranny. The bearings will sits nice and thigh.


5 - Remove ring gear from the AWD front/center differential by removing the 16 bolts, and tapping it with a brass hammer (or place a piece of wood and hit it).


6 - Place the ring gear on the MR2 diff, place the 16 bolts.


7 - Order a speedometer drive from Toyota dealer (cost me 80$ can, but I bet you can get a better price than that). Place the speedometer drive on mr2 diff.


8 - Install diff. If your AWD tranny grinds, and you'd like to replace the synchros for not too much, now is a good time to do it.


9 - Re-assemble the tranny: Place the input/output shafts, selecting gear forks, oil cooler lines, bellhousing case, 5th gear, 5th gear cover.


10 - At this point, you'll need the differential cover from the MR2 that will bolt on where you removed the transfer case. You can get this from a toasted MR2 tranny. This cover has the passenger axle seal. Replace it also if worn or old.


11 - Get MR2 turbo inner driveshafts. You need axle with turbo and LSD if using the OEM Toyota VLSD diff. Otherwise, if using open differential or aftermarket LSD (TRD, cusco, etc) use the normal turbo axle. The normal Mr2 turbo non-LSD axle can be modified also to fit the OEM Toyota LSD diff.


12 - You need to make hybrid axles. Use the celica alltrac OUTER axles, and the INNER MR2 axles. The outer axles is those that enters the hub with bearing at the wheels. The inners enters the transmission to plug into the diff. You can separate the outers and inners axles by removing 6 8mm Allenkey bolts.


13 - Install the new alltrac/mr2 hybrid tranny. Use the celica alltrac shifting cables, use either electronic or cable driven speedo by swapping the correct one on tranny. Use 3sgte clutch/flywheel/pressure plate. Place the alltrac/mr2 hybrid axles.


14 - The rear transmission mount will be different. This also happens if you swap the MR2 transmission. You need to get an alltrac crossmember, or modify your existing one (the mount is not at the same place).


15 - Drive

As far as maintenance for the engine not sure i wanna mess with what already works :-/ lol

Any advice is apreciated guys

Ps if some one has a parts list that theyve used and doesnt mind sharing it id appreciate it


That's a whole lot more work than simply grabbing an already FWD trans and going through the auto to manual steps, which will have to be done either way.


--------------------
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!

Mine- 1997 Supra- TT 6 speed, BPU. 460 whp.
Hers- 1998 Celica GT-
BEAMS Swapped.
Ours- 2016 4Runner Trail Edition.
post Jul 11, 2012 - 12:23 PM
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kurt95gt



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Yea that's a lot if work for no real gain


--------------------
95 gt coupe, v6 swap weekend toy
99 gt hatch beams swapped wife's
94 st hatch my daily driver
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82235
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post Jul 11, 2012 - 12:33 PM
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JohanFer



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Hey thanks for the information!!!

Oh yes, a lot of work for nothing really, even the power would be gone!!! I think I'll just stick to the 5s and do a manual transmission conversion. Well really have it done to the car as I think that a lot of skill and time is necessary and I think I have none. Even though I consider myself savvy, I think that making the conversion is a job for a professional.

This post has been edited by JohanFer: Jul 11, 2012 - 12:34 PM


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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.


post Jul 11, 2012 - 1:39 PM
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BonzaiCelica



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engine swap is your best bet. its feasible anyone trying to learn the basics of how to do so.


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post Jul 26, 2012 - 3:06 AM
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JohanFer



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I am proud to say that today I finally ordered the parts for the front end conversion out of a WRC GT-Four white celica and the GT-FOUR rear spoiler. biggrin.gif

Here are the pictures














So, what do you guys think? The condition does not seem that bad although I still need to repaint them as my car is ivory and needs to be Super White. I will need to remove that paint that says GT-FOUR off the raiser block. I did not buy the engine.

Now, I've been reading the tutorial on how to do the conversion and I think that I can do it if I did not have to solder any parts. In any case, do you guys recommend that the body shop install them after they paint them separately or should I go ahead and install them and then take the car for some minor body work and painting? I need your help to see what's best.


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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.


post Jul 26, 2012 - 11:13 AM
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SwissFerdi

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I recommend prepping the panels for paint as well as you can, meaning sanding, sanding, and more sanding. Add wet-sanding to that equation too. Then test fit it, bring it to a paint shop of your choice, and voila...

I guess the decision whether to mount it it yourself lies on you.


--------------------
'97 ST \ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+
'93 MX-5 LE
'07 Kawasaki Eliminator 125
'08 MX-5 GT
post Jul 26, 2012 - 11:22 AM
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mkernz22



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Just an FYI, the auto to manual conversion is not that hard at all. I did it on my car without any prior knowledge, but I also was able to acquire a full parts car so I could swap the manual wiring into my car as well (engine harness, front body harness, and the dash harness).
post Jul 26, 2012 - 11:34 AM
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Box



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Congrats! Getting even closer!


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1996 Pontiac Firebird Formula hardtop 6-speed
post Jul 26, 2012 - 3:40 PM
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richee3



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Even got the fenders! Nice! woot.gif

This post has been edited by richee3: Jul 26, 2012 - 3:41 PM


--------------------
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!

Mine- 1997 Supra- TT 6 speed, BPU. 460 whp.
Hers- 1998 Celica GT-
BEAMS Swapped.
Ours- 2016 4Runner Trail Edition.
post Jul 27, 2012 - 1:37 AM
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JohanFer



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QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Jul 26, 2012 - 12:13 PM) *
I recommend prepping the panels for paint as well as you can, meaning sanding, sanding, and more sanding. Add wet-sanding to that equation too. Then test fit it, bring it to a paint shop of your choice, and voila...

I guess the decision whether to mount it it yourself lies on you.

Good, I've seen that work done. The only thing is that I've almost no spare time to work on it as I am practically working a shift and a half. frown.gif I will however look into how to do it so that when I get the parts see what is needed. Now, the car is pearl color, so all of it will need to be painted, so the shop will probably take care of it. There is some minor body work to be done.

This post has been edited by JohanFer: Jul 27, 2012 - 1:38 AM


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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.


post Jul 27, 2012 - 1:41 AM
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JohanFer



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QUOTE (mkernz22 @ Jul 26, 2012 - 12:22 PM) *
Just an FYI, the auto to manual conversion is not that hard at all. I did it on my car without any prior knowledge, but I also was able to acquire a full parts car so I could swap the manual wiring into my car as well (engine harness, front body harness, and the dash harness).



Haha, I would do it if I had the time, but this is also my only car, so I would be off of it for a while if I do it myself. Agrrrr, I really want to do it, experiment with it, but lack of time is a big issue here.


--------------------
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.


post Jul 27, 2012 - 1:50 AM
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JohanFer



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QUOTE (Box @ Jul 26, 2012 - 12:34 PM) *
Congrats! Getting even closer!


Yes!! Can't wait to get the parts and be tempted to start to do it even I've no time.

QUOTE (richee3 @ Jul 26, 2012 - 4:40 PM) *
Even got the fenders! Nice! woot.gif


Yes, I didn't want to regret in the future the fact that I didnt get them smile.gif


I do have a question on the installation of the front end in case I find a Saturday to work on the car myself. Is there any soldering to be done at all in the installation of the front bumper, or any of these parts? I think I read somewhere this was the case. 'cause I can't solder at all, not have the equipment. My sis took soldering as an ROP class in high school, but she just said "forget it" I really wish I could do it because I got an estimate for painting the car and do some minor work on the car and once they knew I was getting the front end conversion to a foreign car like the GT-Four, they raised the price considerably. $7,500 for the conversion, using my parts, and the paint. I thought it was too much. I would therefore, just like to take them the car and have them paint it, no questions asked.

So, is there any soldering to be done? it is difficult? Can one take it to a shop where metal is worked upon and have them just do that? Let me know please.


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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.


post Jul 27, 2012 - 5:58 AM
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richee3



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The upper support bar for the bumper, if you choose to use it, will need to be spot welded into place. Other members have drilled out the spot welds and bolted it into place, and others who never got the bar have used nuts and bolts to hold the bumper up or made custom brackets.

I guess my point is that welding isn't absolutely necessary but it is optional. And $7,500?!?! Ouch, I definitely wouldn't go back to that body shop...


--------------------
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!

Mine- 1997 Supra- TT 6 speed, BPU. 460 whp.
Hers- 1998 Celica GT-
BEAMS Swapped.
Ours- 2016 4Runner Trail Edition.
post Jul 27, 2012 - 7:24 AM
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czwalga

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QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Jul 26, 2012 - 11:13 AM) *
I recommend prepping the panels for paint as well as you can, meaning sanding, sanding, and more sanding. Add wet-sanding to that equation too. Then test fit it, bring it to a paint shop of your choice, and voila...

I guess the decision whether to mount it it yourself lies on you.




I wouldnt touch them until you talk to the body shop. A lot will charge extra because if you dont sand uniformily etc. you end up making more work for them.


--------------------
-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq
-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD
-10 F150

Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.
post Jul 27, 2012 - 9:20 AM
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SwissFerdi

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Just take your time with the prep, learn carefully and work slowly. You'll understand more about the process at the end, and you'll have done the bulk of the work, meaning you can spend less to have the professionals paint, which comprises maybe 10% of the whole process. Prepping the surface correctly for paint is the most time-consuming and most important part, so figure about ten hours with sanding blocks for all the panels, at least.

I recommend 3M, grab the rough, medium, and fine.


--------------------
'97 ST \ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+
'93 MX-5 LE
'07 Kawasaki Eliminator 125
'08 MX-5 GT
post Jul 27, 2012 - 9:36 AM
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Smaay

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QUOTE (richee3 @ Jul 11, 2012 - 9:53 AM) *
The cover plate is often brought up, but it does not work. The E154F splits power 50/50 to the front and rear wheels, so you've already lost half your power. I can't remember the specifics right now but it seems like it also breaks the trans to only use the front wheels. I'll search and find the specific answer for you in a bit.



there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the ST205 transmission. all you need is the MR2 cover plate and a Differential. you can use the OEM one or an aftermarket. Or you can get the 5 speed from a Camry or Solara, its the same thing.

as for engine swap, look into a V6. im not far from you and since im about to finish it, i can help you get yours done


--------------------
2001 Celica GT-S Turbo
1997 Supra TT 6speed
1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap
1990 Celica All-Trac
post Aug 2, 2012 - 11:06 PM
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JohanFer



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I got the parts this morning!!!! I have them in my possession and if I've time this Friday, I will start this afternoon on the conversion. Is there anything I should be careful about???


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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.


post Aug 4, 2012 - 11:47 PM
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JohanFer



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I succesfully finished the Front End Conversion!!!!! All seems good now. I did not install the spoiler as the body shop asked me to not do it because they need to solder the middle hole. Pics will come soon as I am exhausted.


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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.


post Aug 6, 2012 - 12:50 AM
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JohanFer



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Well, just as I promised here are the pictures. Because I don't want to clog this post with just lots of crazy pictures that might be good for nothing, I've included only a few and then set up a gallery on my website. I hope you find it helpful and/or entertaining. I am open to answer any questions you might have if any.

Here are some pictures:
















If you want to see the full gallery, go to:

GT-Four Front End Conversion Picture Journal


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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.


post Aug 6, 2012 - 1:02 AM
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kurt95gt



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Looking great man


--------------------
95 gt coupe, v6 swap weekend toy
99 gt hatch beams swapped wife's
94 st hatch my daily driver
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82235
n

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