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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Suspension/Handling/Braking
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celi94
In Europe we also have celica's with Superstrut Suspension.
Thats wy i'm sharing this information!


The ST205 GT-Four uses a system of front suspension design unique to Toyota. It moves away from the MacPherson strut used on all other Celicas and is much more complex. This system is used on the GT-Four, some Japanese spec Corollas and the higher spec Japanese fwd Celicas (SSII and SSIII). It was available in Europe on the Carina GTi and was an option on the ST202 (thanks Dirk for the info).

My understanding of the system is that the geometry does not give the same camber and castor changes during cornering that occur with MacPherson strut. Is it better? Well, it is different. There are reliability problems if maintenance isn't kept up, TTE had continual problems and I believe they swapped the rally cars back to MacPherson strut.

A brief description of MacPherson strut is in order. The Toyota system uses a lower A arm with rubber bushings front and rear. This has only one degree of motion (ie. it rotates on the bushings). At the outer point of the A arm is a balljoint which connects to the steering knuckle and allows for rotation (steering) and pivot (shock compression). The steering knuckle is rigidly bolted to the bottom of the strut. The whole strut turns when steering, twisting in the roller bearing in the top mount. Fairly simple and cheap, used by most manufacturers.

So what is Superstrut suspension? It is a hybrid between normal MacPherson strut and a multilink setup. One of the requirements of the design brief was that the system would fit existing suspension mount locations. Therefore the system can be fitted into export Celicas as well as the Japanese lower spec SSI! The late production cars even share the same subframe.

The photo below shows the lower part of the system. This consists of a front and rear lower arm, connected (by rodends) to a connector plate. The rear arm has a rubber bushing at the inner end (the only rubber bushing at the front except swaybar D-bushings), the front arm has a balljoint. This system allows the arms to pivot as the suspension turns.

user posted image

The steering knuckle is quite different to that of the MacPherson strut cars. It bolts securely to the connector plate joining the lower arms (see photo below). The top end connects to the strut part way up using a balljoint (see red arrow in left picture and upper arrow in right picture below. The strut mounts to the body in the normal way, but the lower end is secured to the front lower arm using another pivoting arm visible at the right in the photo above. This arm is near vertical in the photos, it is actually about 150mm long and pivots at each end.

user posted imageuser posted image

The photo of the assembled suspension below shows that the strut rotates minimally when steering ( the same amount as the front lower arm as it is rigidly connected). The steering knuckle moves instead. While the outboard strut moves rearwards slightly when the car turns in (turning left in the photo), it can be seen that the hub moves forward. But because of the strut movement the actual movement at the wheel is minimised.

The second photo shows the mounting points for the lower arms on the subframe.

user posted imageuser posted image

All the info from: gtfour.supras.org.nz
presure2
good stuff man!! smile.gif
Mr_E
biggrin.gif


Vote for sticky.
G3D45
Great write-up, but how to determine, is my ST202 with SSS or not... I'm not a mechanic (prob. LOL), but I wish to know. VIN doesn't tell anything...
Kadett
If you have 2piston Calipers in the front. Its SS Supension.

Other then that, look under the car. If your strut is shaped like this
IPB Image

Then you have SS

Nibbe
Is it impossible to change superstrut to MacPherson strut (normal one)? Or if its possible how much would it cost? I just cant get a tein adjustable kit because of the superstrut model costs 2300euros and i think its way too much considering that same kit without superstrut is something like 1200euros.
doGGy
QUOTE(G3D45 @ Dec 29, 2006 - 1:49 AM) [snapback]513801[/snapback]

Great write-up, but how to determine, is my ST202 with SSS or not... I'm not a mechanic (prob. LOL), but I wish to know. VIN doesn't tell anything...


Gedai - susuk vaira ir viska tu ten pamatysi biggrin.gif O jei Superstrutas stovi - ant galiinio lango apacios eina lipdukas SuperStrut.

Sorry guys for our language biggrin.gif But ussualy when superstrut is suplied on the GT the sticker on the rear glass is placed telling this. BTW - not too many GT in 94 came with the SS.

Nibbe
QUOTE(doGGy @ Dec 29, 2006 - 9:15 AM) [snapback]513831[/snapback]

Gedai - susuk vaira ir viska tu ten pamatysi biggrin.gif O jei Superstrutas stovi - ant galiinio lango apacios eina lipdukas SuperStrut.

Sorry guys for our language biggrin.gif But ussualy when superstrut is suplied on the GT the sticker on the rear glass is placed telling this. BTW - not too many GT in 94 came with the SS.

Atleast ive got one of those 94's with SS. And it sucks BIG time! frown.gif
doGGy
QUOTE(Nibbe @ Dec 29, 2006 - 7:14 AM) [snapback]513830[/snapback]

Is it impossible to change superstrut to MacPherson strut (normal one)? Or if its possible how much would it cost? I just cant get a tein adjustable kit because of the superstrut model costs 2300euros and i think its way too much considering that same kit without superstrut is something like 1200euros.


You will need to change Steering Gear, And whole suspension including lower arm from Mac, Struts, steering knuckle, basicly everything, including Brakes. Im pretty sure what lower subframe is the same as on the normal MAc equiped cars. Im planing to change my suspension to MAc pretty soon, cuz im tired of the SS problems already, and i only done like 200 miles with my SSIII....


G3D45
I compared mine suspension with this one and I don't see any differences. So I guess I'm SS and all the coming problems owner rolleyes.gif
malpaso
QUOTE(doGGy @ Dec 29, 2006 - 3:15 PM) [snapback]513831[/snapback]

QUOTE(G3D45 @ Dec 29, 2006 - 1:49 AM) [snapback]513801[/snapback]

Great write-up, but how to determine, is my ST202 with SSS or not... I'm not a mechanic (prob. LOL), but I wish to know. VIN doesn't tell anything...


Gedai - susuk vaira ir viska tu ten pamatysi biggrin.gif O jei Superstrutas stovi - ant galiinio lango apacios eina lipdukas SuperStrut.

Sorry guys for our language biggrin.gif But ussualy when superstrut is suplied on the GT the sticker on the rear glass is placed telling this. BTW - not too many GT in 94 came with the SS.


yea... biggrin.gif

IPB Image
G3D45
I don't have such stick smile.gif Maybe it was only on the facelifted versions.
doGGy
QUOTE


yea... biggrin.gif

IPB Image


Martin - we all know what you cheated biggrin.gif intresting... from what year does ST came with the SS suspension and SSIII stickers on spoiler biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif tongue.gif
Nibbe
Btw i dont really know much about that ssI II III thing. So if ive got 1994 gt with a ss suspension does it make my car one of those? You might be laughing for this question.
G3D45
QUOTE(Kadett @ Jan 1, 2007 - 6:45 PM) [snapback]514381[/snapback]

There is almost no info about SSS Celicas in Europe...
doGGy
QUOTE(G3D45 @ Jan 1, 2007 - 10:34 AM) [snapback]514389[/snapback]

QUOTE(Kadett @ Jan 1, 2007 - 6:45 PM) [snapback]514381[/snapback]

There is almost no info about SSS Celicas in Europe...


As long as i know and remeber (if i remeber corectly) i was reading somthere what SS in EU on GT's was availible as Special option witch you could chose when buying a celica from Dealers.


Kadett
Yup,

Sportpackage or Sport Undercarriage its called here in Holland. Came standard with ABS too.
G3D45
QUOTE(doGGy @ Jan 1, 2007 - 7:43 PM) [snapback]514391[/snapback]

As long as i know and remeber (if i remeber corectly) i was reading somthere what SS in EU on GT's was availible as Special option witch you could chose when buying a celica from Dealers.

Rather interesting. I don't know any similar example in nowadays cars. Such important thing like suspension would be optional rolleyes.gif
malpaso
QUOTE(doGGy @ Dec 30, 2006 - 7:19 PM) [snapback]514055[/snapback]

QUOTE


yea... biggrin.gif

IPB Image


Martin - we all know what you cheated biggrin.gif intresting... from what year does ST came with the SS suspension and SSIII stickers on spoiler biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif tongue.gif


It's 96 Ultra Limited Malpaso's Edition biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

QUOTE(doGGy @ Jan 1, 2007 - 6:43 PM) [snapback]514391[/snapback]

QUOTE(G3D45 @ Jan 1, 2007 - 10:34 AM) [snapback]514389[/snapback]

QUOTE(Kadett @ Jan 1, 2007 - 6:45 PM) [snapback]514381[/snapback]

There is almost no info about SSS Celicas in Europe...


As long as i know and remeber (if i remeber corectly) i was reading somthere what SS in EU on GT's was availible as Special option witch you could chose when buying a celica from Dealers.


SSS are in EPC for Europe so they must be available (or was available)
TomPoz
My GT was 94 from Switzerland - with SSS.
doGGy
IPB Image

biggrin.gif our biggest nightmare biggrin.gif
Edophus
Superstrut can be expensive to maintain but a celica with superstrut in combo with a diff handles so much better than one without that its worth it if you can afford it, heck its worth it even if you cant afford it.

If you are wanting to change to coilovers, then take a look at importing a set of used TRD coilovers from the japanese yahoo auctions, sets come up quite often but you'll need to use a third party to import them for you as you cant buy from japan yahoo if your outside japan.
Alan
Hey guys hows it going does anyone have a problem with loweer arm? mine lossen alot even with thread lock does anyone have any info for this problem or has the same problem.
playr158
anyone have part numbers for the various pieces smile.gif i know i'll need to replace most if not all the joints on mine frown.gif
Kadett
Thats normal Mcpherson Struts. Not SS struts.
Penkka
QUOTE(G3D45 @ Jan 1, 2007 - 3:56 PM) [snapback]514411[/snapback]

QUOTE(doGGy @ Jan 1, 2007 - 7:43 PM) [snapback]514391[/snapback]

As long as i know and remeber (if i remeber corectly) i was reading somthere what SS in EU on GT's was availible as Special option witch you could chose when buying a celica from Dealers.

Rather interesting. I don't know any similar example in nowadays cars. Such important thing like suspension would be optional rolleyes.gif


Superstrut is a great suspension type, in paper that is. But it never actually worked as well as it was planned. Toyotas world rally team actually used it in 2(!) rallies, and then went back to original Macpherson.
And the great cheat-Turbo in ST205 GT4 laugh.gif laugh.gif
soven
The superstrut suspension feels heaps better than the macphearson on the celica. I know because I have owned both and driven both.

Once you replace the figure8s etc, it will last you quite a while.
Penkka
IPB Image
Superstrut with all the part numbers

IPB Image
Macpherson with all the part numbers
lmac34
QUOTE (Penkka @ Jan 17, 2008 - 3:03 PM) *

Superstrut with all the part numbers


Macpherson with all the part numbers


Sorry for hijacking this post.

But

Can anyone tell me if the breaks from a GT4 st205 will fit on the Macpherson setup above,
Edophus
QUOTE (Penkka @ Dec 23, 2007 - 1:36 PM) *
QUOTE (G3D45 @ Jan 1, 2007 - 3:56 PM) *

QUOTE (doGGy @ Jan 1, 2007 - 7:43 PM) *

As long as i know and remeber (if i remeber corectly) i was reading somthere what SS in EU on GT's was availible as Special option witch you could chose when buying a celica from Dealers.

Rather interesting. I don't know any similar example in nowadays cars. Such important thing like suspension would be optional rolleyes.gif


Superstrut is a great suspension type, in paper that is. But it never actually worked as well as it was planned. Toyotas world rally team actually used it in 2(!) rallies, and then went back to original Macpherson.
And the great cheat-Turbo in ST205 GT4 laugh.gif laugh.gif


yes because of reliability issues, rally situation being very different to a road type, that fact they tried to use it says enough, theres nothign to suggest it was inferior, just wasnt suited to rally situation which is pretty extreme.

as for number of cars using similar setups to superstrut you'd be amazed, its classed as a multilink suspension setup, and although many dont share the exact same design, the goal and result is the same, and you will continue to see more, under various different names, its really all the same thing, toyota were about 10 years ahead of the game
Kwanza26
QUOTE (lmac34 @ Jul 10, 2008 - 11:56 AM) *
Sorry for hijacking this post.

But

Can anyone tell me if the breaks from a GT4 st205 will fit on the Macpherson setup above,

Not without modification. The way the caliper bolts up to the spindle is slightly different as well as the offsets of the rotor brackets.
delusionz
The first thing I noticed going from SS-I to SS-III is that I could gas it around corners in the wet aggressively without sliding, Impossible in the One.

I can't believe I got all this good stuff -- LSD, Superslut, 2pot brakes, 3S-GE, 16" Toyota alloys 215/50R16


I am so stoked, Hey Rusty I'll show u how a real Celi handles if you come up to Auckland tongue.gif
Anabolik
I bought a rack with auction! tongue.gif
Cuts_the_Pilot
I bought from japan
Anabolik
KYB we have not appreciated! Rapidly destroyed!
Cuts_the_Pilot
most of you were using inserts yes? and not the super special f street?

i wasnt keen to fnck around with inserts, spend the $$ and buy the top of the range, you get what u pay for
a few of my mates are using kyb in their gtfours and they cant rate them highly enough.
paul_gt4
without going and reading all the replies, my car with the previous owner removed the useless superstrut set up, go onto any gt4 forum and thats all you'll hear of the members there crying about (its failure and the cost of repair with genuine parts and look at the price of coilovers compared to any other car), its a curse and i'm glad its been removed on mines and fitted with a ST202 set up (Macpherson) including subframe, the initial plan was for set it up with a ST185 set up but the ST202 is supposively very similar with less fabrication. Anyone who i know who has done this has smiled from ear to ear with better handling and less failures and i think that TTE is agreeing with me or i'm agreeing with them more like as the TTE ST205 WRC had the similar Macpherson setup.
Cuts_the_Pilot
i duno about it being better handling man, compared to a shagged ss setup i would agree, but superstrut in its full working potential is a better strut type. Multi links in general are superior, just the extra cost and a bit of weight and complexity sometimes doesnt get outweighed by the benefits.

202/204 and 205 use all the same suspension attachment points so its simply a matter of swapping it over. That was a stipulation toyota put on the engineers when they designed the 6th gen.

what did you do for your stoppers? custom brackets for the calipers? did you sacrifice 10-15mm of rotor diameter like most do when they do a 185/202/204 to 205 brake conversion?
Anabolik
QUOTE (Cuts_the_Pilot @ Jul 30, 2008 - 6:47 AM) *
most of you were using inserts yes? and not the super special f street?

i wasnt keen to fnck around with inserts, spend the $$ and buy the top of the range, you get what u pay for
a few of my mates are using kyb in their gtfours and they cant rate them highly enough.



Google Translate
No, we do not use liners! We just sometimes they do restavriruem and harder!
Rusty
QUOTE (delusionz)
...Superslut...

lol

QUOTE
I am so stoked, Hey Rusty I'll show u how a real Celi handles if you come up to Auckland

I dont know, yours would feel more like a boat more than mine biggrin.gif when are you going to put springs/coilovers in?
Cuts_the_Pilot
put in the kyb super special yesterday, and fnck me the difference is crazy.
words, noise, rapid movements, flatulance tongue.gif or anything else cannot explain how much better it handles, heaps smoother, better traction. Its such an epic improvement,
i reccommend.
Rusty
load some pics up Mr Cuts
Cuts_the_Pilot



Rusty
Wow that was quick

thumbsup.gif Very nice
paul_gt4
QUOTE (Cuts_the_Pilot @ Jul 30, 2008 - 4:08 AM) *
i duno about it being better handling man, compared to a shagged ss setup i would agree, but superstrut in its full working potential is a better strut type. Multi links in general are superior, just the extra cost and a bit of weight and complexity sometimes doesnt get outweighed by the benefits.

202/204 and 205 use all the same suspension attachment points so its simply a matter of swapping it over. That was a stipulation toyota put on the engineers when they designed the 6th gen.

what did you do for your stoppers? custom brackets for the calipers? did you sacrifice 10-15mm of rotor diameter like most do when they do a 185/202/204 to 205 brake conversion?



I'll have to get pics of the set up when i get the car back from getting the rebuild done, but i still have the same ST205 braking set up which will be binned in the near future for some 10pots, from driving my mates car with the same KYB set up as mines i notice that mines holds the corners better and doesn't understeer in comparison to my mates car, maybe because my car is alot lighter up front could be the difference but i'm glad i have the set up i have
coneyre
QUOTE (Cuts_the_Pilot @ Jul 31, 2008 - 6:22 AM) *
put in the kyb super special yesterday, and fnck me the difference is crazy.
words, noise, rapid movements, flatulance tongue.gif or anything else cannot explain how much better it handles, heaps smoother, better traction. Its such an epic improvement,
i reccommend.



Sounds good man, very interested. How much did they set you back? Have you got the part number or site where I can get a set?
playr158
QUOTE (paul_gt4 @ Jul 29, 2008 - 6:54 PM) *
without going and reading all the replies, my car with the previous owner removed the useless superstrut set up, go onto any gt4 forum and thats all you'll hear of the members there crying about (its failure and the cost of repair with genuine parts and look at the price of coilovers compared to any other car), its a curse and i'm glad its been removed on mines and fitted with a ST202 set up (Macpherson) including subframe, the initial plan was for set it up with a ST185 set up but the ST202 is supposively very similar with less fabrication. Anyone who i know who has done this has smiled from ear to ear with better handling and less failures and i think that TTE is agreeing with me or i'm agreeing with them more like as the TTE ST205 WRC had the similar Macpherson setup.



going by this post.

I'm assuming we can run Mcpherson suspension with the AWD system in our celicas?
GEpower
I love it that my new Celica has Superstrut. However it started knocking, it seems the figure 8 isn't OK. I'm not sure though, if it's the figure 8. But the figure 8 is looking rusty, while on the good side of the car the figure 8 is not rusty at al. (might even have been replaced already)
97celiman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacPherson_strut

so i read this article....

does macpherson have a sort of stock "coilover"...they are just non adjuststable?
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