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Defgeph
*THIS IS FOR INSTRUCTIONAL USE*

READ THIS BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION
90% of the time the answer is here. wink.gif

Hey guys,
I figured I'd do a write up while I was doing my swap. Later on we can edit everything and have a nice FAQ & how-to for the 3sgte swap.

Ok, I dont know everything about cars. I took on this project to learn and further enjoy the car I love. There will be times where I dont know what a part is or how to explain it, but with everyone's help we'll get through it.

If you guys have anything to add, please feel free to reply. Please do not flame me or post negative remarks about the parts I install, or anything thats involved in this thread. Post your opinions not your attitudes.

First Step: The thought. Should I do it. Well its up to you, use this as a guide to help you along the way.
Its recommended that you have somewhere around 4000 dollars saved for the swap.

Before you ask: Engine or Clip. rolleyes.gif Get the clip, it will have all the parts you need for the swap. (for the most part). If you purchase only an engine you would have to hunt down so many hard to find parts it would be rediculous.

QUOTE
If you just bought engine, ecu, tranny, wiring harness.

You would be missing: 3rd ECU plug, AFM, ignitor, coil, injector resistor pack, fuel pump resistor, fuel pump relay, turbo pressure sensor, air intake piping, and probably some other stuff.

If you got a clip, you would be missing nothing. Plus, you could sell off a LOT of stuff, and pay for a good portion of your swap.

A swap can take a weekend or many months. It all depends on what you are doing.

It is probably a good idea to replace some old parts while you are at it! All gaskets, water pump, oil pump, belts, hose from hell, clutch, head gasket, distributor cap and rotor, plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, etc....depends on what you want out of the car. If you want to modify it, add some more.



Second Step
: What model do you have ST(like me) or a GT.
IF you have a GT its a little easier for you guys. The 5sfe Tranny bolts right up to the 3sgte engine. Most people will bash the 5s tranny saying it wont hold the power. We have a few guys running the 5s tranny with no problems.
Other options: E-153 MR2 turbo tranny with LSD
1mzfe tranny found on Solaras, Camrys, and ES300s
3sge tranny found on a number of Toyotas

NOTE: The MR2 turbo tranny, and 1MZFE need the ST205 rear mount and bracket. Do not drive around with three mounts. DO NOT have one custom made for you, ORDER the ST205 rear transmission bracket

GT guys unless you dont want to use the 5sfe tranny, move on you dont need this section.

ST guys. You need a new tranny. You most likely know that you need new mounts. I have purchased all four GT mounts. Get them all you need everything. Its better to be safe than sorry.
You cannot use the Alltrac tranny. You cannot use your ST tranny. You would need a GT tranny or one of the trannys listed above.

ST mounts
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GT mounts

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See the mounts are totally different.




You also need to get a tranny, look above for recomendations. I'm using a JDM 3SGE Tranny. I'll have pics and more detail later on.
you need axles that match the tranny.
Shifter cables yep you need them.
Here is how they break down:
E-153 mr2 turbo tranny = ST205 cables only
GT tranny = GT shifter cables
1mzfe (also known as the E153) Solara, Camry Tranny = ST205 Cables only
3SGE Tranny = GT Cables
[/b]
I have some pictures of cables and the differences
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GT & GT4 side by side
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GT left, GT4 right
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GT top, GT4 bottom

See totally different

Ok Cables, mounts, axles I think we can join the GT guys again.

GT & ST: Clutch. Depending on which tranny you use it will effect which clutch parts you buy.
QUOTE
Lagos wrote:
Clutch:
if using the gt tranny with the 3sgte motor, you will need:
5sfe disk (or a custom made 3sgte disk, with the splines for the 5sfe tranny)
5sfe throwout bearing
5sfe alignment tool
3sgte pressure plate
3sgte flywheel (or just get your stock one resurfaced)

if you are going to use an mr2 turbo tranny, then all you need to do is buy a clutch kit for a 90-93 turbo mr2.

be carefull when buying clutch disks for the 5sfe tranny. a stage 1 disk for the 5sfe is not the same thing as a stage 1 disk for the 3sgte. so if you get something like a stock oem clutch or a ACT street disk, it probably will not hold the power you need to put down.
if you call up a company like Spec or Clutchmasters and tell them about your project, they can make you a custom disk that can hold the power you will make and have the correct spline count that you need.


You all will need a new fuel pump. I am using a walbro supra turbo pump. Most people will say that it whines when operating. People have even dubbed it "WhineBro". Another option is to purchase a OEM Supra turbo pump from toyota. It is silent, and still delivers the fuel the 3sgte needs.

I'm not going to cover after market intercoolers. You can do the swap with the stock set up. The stock Air to Air cooler is not recommened, most people prefer to get an aftermarket. The stock intercooler sits on top of the 3sgte, with leads to heat soak at an idle. Most people Use an front mount intercooler. You can search for it in the forums.
My 3SGTE is the RC version with a water cooled top mount intercooler. I have no need to get a FMIC (front mount intercooler)
Defgeph
My Setup
97 celica ST 5spd 179,xxx
ST185 3SGTE RC Swap
USDM GT motor mounts
JDM 3SGE Tranny
JDM 3SGE axles
GT shifter cables
Fidanza Flyweel 10 lbs.
Spec stage 3 clutch
HKS SSQ blow off Valve
Walbro fuel pump
Full 3 inch exhaust
HKS Titanium TI muffler
Lotek Triple Gauge pillar
Autometer Sport Comp boost gauge
Autometer Sport Comp Oil press.
Autometer Sport Comp Water temp
Greddy Profec B Spec II
Apexi Turbo Timer
I'll add what ever I forgot later.
I have parts all over the place so it will take time to get all the pictures. here is what pictures I have right now

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My car as it sits now


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Walbro Fuel pump

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My Down Pipe

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My Baby laugh.gif
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My HKS Carbon TI muffler 3 inch inlet, 4 3/4 inch outlet

This is what I have pictures of right now. I have parts scattered in three different homes. I'll get pictures of everything dont worry



Right now 5/26/05 I have almost everything for the swap. In the next two weeks my clip will be delivered to my home by JARCO. At that time this thread will be come more technical. I'll try to keep a step by step account of everything. I will also have some videos of a few parts of the swap.
I'll also end all your worries about the motor mounts, I'll clearly lay it out for you with measurements. You DONT have to weld the mounts in. I'm not sure about the wiring yet. so maybe one of you guys might want to do a write up about it. And I'll quote it in later on.

UPDATE:6/7/05 I'm going through the longest week ever. On saturday my clip will be delivered. Spec Stage 3 clutch is on the way, Next week the pictures start.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Update: 6/14/05 I got my clip over the weekend, and I couldnt be happier.

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biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Ok so this thing is huge make sure you have enough room for the swap.
only thing I can really say right now is, get the clip on some jeck stands and start taking it apart.

Where do I start. Well, I pulled the wiring harness from inside the car out and layed across the top of the engine. I pulled the throttle cable, save it you will need it for your swap. Then I pulled all the other wiring and hoses that connect the engine to the body. Make sure you label everything ! Take pictures if you need to, whatever will help you remember where everything goes. if all goes well you should have somthing that looks like this.

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Dont forget to pull coolant hoses, shifter cables,axles, radiator and whatever other small things that may hold the engine in or get in the way.
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Raditator

Now before you lift the engine out you still have some things that need to be done.

Like removing the intercooler, just so it doesnt get damaged when you pull the engine.

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Then the mounts, a 17mm socket will undo all the mounts. The rear mount will be the hardest and most dangerous. But I will post a way to get around this problem. I hope my idea will work.


After everything is pulled the engine should come out with little trouble.
Next update, I'll have the engine pulled and my parts being installed to the 3sgte

As it sits right now, waiting to be plucked. thumbsup.gif
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
Defgeph
So I guess its time for an update.........

The 3s is out and so is the 7a !

With the help a few friends, we managed to get most of the gaskets and seals done on the 3sgte. Do all the maintenance with the engine out it will make your life easier in the long run.

Empty engine bay
user posted image

Flywheel and clutch install
Fidanza wheel and Spec stage 3 clutch
user posted image

The down pipe
user posted image

The 3s and 7a side by side
user posted image

the mount area I will go into full detail about this part when I get to it.
user posted image


I think thats it for now, I'll keep this updated. :wiggle:

DEF
Defgeph
IPB Image
Inside the two red circles is where you need to drill. The chassis is already marked for the holes that need to be drilled. you need a long 3/8 drill bit for metal.
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Sears item #00966062000 its like 12.99

I installed all the other engine mounts then bolted this mount to the engine and then I drilled out the holes. after I bolted the mount down using locktite and nylon nuts.


You're going to have to do some grinding on the passenger side engine mount bracket. you have to grind down the hump thats on this bracket in order for it to fit on the 3sgte.

Below are some examples of what you need to do.
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6th gen and 5th gen Crossmembers

See totally different. Use the 6th gen members with the correct mounts
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Ok, I think we went over all the steps. Lets drop that engine in.
Make sure your engine harness has been converted properly. install it on the engine before you drop it in.
Start with the driver side mount first, then front and back mounts. Save the Passenger side mount for Last if you have an ST. With all the other mounts bolted up you should be lined up perfect for the two holes you need to drill.

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Once you have all the mounts in, start putting it all back together.
By this point you know every nut and bolt on ur car, so it starts to get easier.

in a couple of hours you should be sitting on all fours.
Something like this.
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Clean your self up and take it for a spin. Dont forget to break the clutch in.


I have two other threads about my exhaust setup

My New Exhaust
3" Turbo Back Exhaust Refrence Pics


Enjoy,
Defgeph

PS. if I left anything out I'll fill it in later
Akimbo
sexy...you make it sound so easy too. What happened to your enkeis btw?
ILuvMyCelica95
bowdown.gif Jeff bowdown.gif
Defgeph
QUOTE(Akimbo @ Sep 12, 2005 - 9:05 AM)
sexy...you make it sound so easy too. What happened to your enkeis btw?
[right][snapback]333286[/snapback][/right]


Rubber is too thin.


Thanks guys
Batman722
great post guy.
Yota
Is the cross member from your ST? Or was that from the clip?
Defgeph
QUOTE(Yota @ Sep 12, 2005 - 3:23 PM)
Is the cross member from your ST?  Or was that from the clip?
[right][snapback]333381[/snapback][/right]


Hey try reading the how-to next time lol, the answer is in post number 4
Yes I used my ST cross member, the st185 does not fit.

I showed a picture to refrence.

DEF
Yota
whoops...i read it wrong. Sorry... rolleyes.gif
steve0178
so you finished it all up huh? sweet thanks for the update. I just bought my front clip so now i get to start the fun smile.gif
st202gt
where did u get the clips from and how much?
MonsterBOX
how long did it take u start to finish in total hours working, what bout wiring
Defgeph
QUOTE(MonsterBOX @ Sep 18, 2005 - 1:57 AM)
how long did it take u start to finish in total hours working, what bout wiring
[right][snapback]335598[/snapback][/right]


2 1/2 months worth of weekends, DGperformance did the wiring.


DEF
brianforster
you make it sound so easy frown.gif
brianforster
so wait, did you run a 13.9 with tmic?
Defgeph
Yes I did. On 205/40/R17 Falken Zeix 512's
brianforster
wow nice... intercoolers do not increase hp but just run your setup cooler right? to allow for more boost? with a decent intercooler setup what kind of stock boost can you run on the 3sgte?

also a question for you since yo useem to be online and i have no one else to ask..

are the power steering lines and ac lines useable from the stock GT stuff? and condensor too.

and whats the diff between the 3sgte rc and normal? im trying to search but the terms are coming up too short
Defgeph
1. Yeah the GT lines will work. I believe you can leave ur 5sfe AC pump and bolt it to the 3SGTE, then just wire it up.

2. The differences are the ST185 uses air to cool the intercooler, it sits above the engine soaking in all the heat. It's a horrible design. Most people run an aftermarket front mount.

The ST185RC is water cooled, work very well. It gets so cold the intake manifold becomes cool as well(idling). I run anywhere from 12 to 15 psi, thats where the 3sgte comes alive.

Hope this helps
brianforster
oh really, do you think it woudl be cheaper to run a water to air tmic than a fully custom fmic? on an engine with currently no intercooler..
Defgeph
I'm not sure if it will be cheaper, but its definatley something to look into.
You might find some nice water setups on ebay.

If I did it all over, I would still run water.
Turbo Lag = 0 for me
brianforster
thats interesting.. so i dont have to keep picking your brain, do you know of any in depth guides to water cooling?

i doubt i could find a full setup for sale that will bolt right on, im sure that would be too easy smile.gif
Defgeph
Dont worry about the questions, I'm here to help.
Not sure of any write ups, somebody might chime in with one.

I can list parts
1. intercooler
2. water pump
3. Heat exchanger (like a small radiator for the from of the car)
4. hoses to connect everything

And that about covers it. wink.gif
brianforster
cool, perhaps ill have to look into that, except it seems like the parts would be really hard to find
Defgeph
ST185RC IC setup
user posted image


ST205 IC setup
user posted image

This should help you
brianforster
thanks man you are awesome! now i just gotta learn how to read diagrams like this hehe
Defgeph
The 205 picture is easier to understand

to the left is the heat exchanger (looks like a radiator)

Bottom right is the water pump

Top middle is the intercooler

some hoses that connect everything.


and other parts that you dont need to worry about.
WannabeGT4
Since this thread is active again I've got a couple questions...

1. Which fuel lines can be used to connect the 3SGTE fuel rail to the filter? 3SGTE or 5SFE?

2. Which heater hoses will I need to use? 5SFE, 3SGTE, or custom?

3. Which radiator hoses should be used? 5SFE, 3SGTE, or custom?

Also, you might include in this How-to what you did to fix your error codes that were caused by the W/A intercooler ECU or lack there of.
Defgeph
1. 3s fuel line to the GT filter
2. I used the 3sgte heater hoses
3. I have an ST radiator. I used 3sgte for the top. And I made my own hybrid lower hose. using a GT lower and some other hose that fit.
If you have a GT just use the GT lower


Thats a good idea about the ECU, maybe I'll do that.
WannabeGT4
QUOTE(defgeph @ Feb 23, 2006 - 8:58 AM) [snapback]398360[/snapback]

1. 3s fuel line to the GT filter
2. I used the 3sgte heater hoses
3. I have an ST radiator. I used 3sgte for the top. And I made my own hybrid lower hose. using a GT lower and some other hose that fit.
If you have a GT just use the GT lower


Thats a good idea about the ECU, maybe I'll do that.


Thanks, but let me make sure I'm getting this right since you were swapping into an ST...
5SFE fuel line from rail to filter will not work?
5SFE heater hoses will not work?
5SFE upper radiator hose will not work?
I realise that you may not know since you had a 7AFE but maybe someone else could answer for sure.

Also did you retain the EVAP system?
Defgeph
The 5sfe stuff will probably work. I like to use the 3sgte hoses, less things to remember.

By EVAP do you mean the charcoal canister ? or the a/c evaporater ?
WannabeGT4
QUOTE(defgeph @ Feb 23, 2006 - 11:04 AM) [snapback]398399[/snapback]

The 5sfe stuff will probably work. I like to use the 3sgte hoses, less things to remember.

By EVAP do you mean the charcoal canister ? or the a/c evaporater ?


Yeah I know what you mean by less things to remember but it'd be nice to know what is compatible... Hopefully someone that has swapped into a GT will chime in.

Evaporative Emissions... just curious if you kept it, not that it matters.
playr158
i'm just wondering do we have the
96+ ST wiring harness diagrams and the
st185 wiringing diagrams?
Defgeph
QUOTE(WannabeGT4 @ Feb 23, 2006 - 12:01 PM) [snapback]398395[/snapback]

Also did you retain the EVAP system?


I have the hose from the engine to the canister connected, I beleive the purge is just left open.
WannabeGT4
QUOTE(playr158 @ Feb 23, 2006 - 10:02 PM) [snapback]398732[/snapback]

i'm just wondering do we have the
96+ ST wiring harness diagrams and the
st185 wiringing diagrams?


I haven't found the OBDII diagrams for either the AT200 or the ST204. Some one will either have to scan them or pay for a subscription to TIS... http://techinfo.toyota.com/

The ST185 diagrams can be found here:
90/91 - http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgb...0celica_ewd.php
92/93 - http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/93tech/

The 93 BGB is almost complete but the menu for volume two is apparently MIA so I just use the directory listing to navigate both volumes.
http://www.celicatech.com/93rmsour/1993/93celica/
This scan will tell you exactly what each folder in the directory listing contains:
http://www.celicatech.com/93rmsour/1993/93...ca/contents.jpg
Defgeph
A few new things going on with my engine. I ordered an ATS fuel rail which should be here by the end of this week.

I also had my injectors tested and cleaned.
user posted image

Now I can say I have no worries at all.
playr158
very nice jeff!
presure2
good stuff jeff.
good to see that the injectors wernt in bad condition, but always better to KNOW theyre clean!
x_itchy_b_x
awesome. im gunna have to check that place out.
always nice to know.
Defgeph
The turn around was super fast.thumbsup.gif I sent these out 2nd day air on Monday, got them back Friday. Small price to pay to know everything is working the way it should.


Thanks guys,
DEF
Defgeph
More goodies for the Beast

ATS fuel rail

Stock left - ATS right
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Cavanagh
Wow your a beast and i give you props...I have a 93 st which i plan to do what you did and i was wondering where you got that front clip from? Also, (this might sound cheesey) but how mehicanical are you? because i somewhat know car engines but is it SUPER difficult,moderate, etc?
playr158
swappage is a rating of like 7 or 8 outta 10 imo on the mechanical side of things

i believe jeff got his clip from JARCO
but there are far better deals on clips around the net
brianforster
id say the swap used to be hard because of the wiring, but with guys like tweak and dg, if you send out your harness and get it back working, its hardly more work than swapping out your old motor (well, in a GT)
x_itchy_b_x
oh jeeze. what goes along with more fuel? more boost. smile.gif
sweet man.
speedy
hey defgeph where did u get those pictures for the TICs and heat exchangers confused.gif . if it was from toyota what did u give them to get the pics?
celicast3sgte
Off topic but i live like... 10 min from bothell-everett hwy. ill have to go check out that shop. how much did it cost you to have them clean, checked, and balanced?
Defgeph
QUOTE(speedy @ Mar 23, 2006 - 4:01 PM) [snapback]412013[/snapback]

hey defgeph where did u get those pictures for the TICs and heat exchangers confused.gif . if it was from toyota what did u give them to get the pics?


Friends from the internet hooked me up with these pics. What is it that you need ? I might be able to help you.


QUOTE(celicast3sgte @ Mar 23, 2006 - 7:28 PM) [snapback]412102[/snapback]

Off topic but i live like... 10 min from bothell-everett hwy. ill have to go check out that shop. how much did it cost you to have them clean, checked, and balanced?



$60 total $15 per injector. For that price they test, clean, and re-test the injectors. Then they express ship them back.
bigal004321
Is that a pretty good idea to do, have the injectors checked?

Bigal
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