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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Engine/Transmission/Maintenance
west_minist
Hi all!

I think that I have mess up.

My Mechanic have a Gen 1 4AGE 20v Silver top with upgraded 264 cams with VVT

He stated to me that he still have vvt. VVT is in this case is either on or off. VVT-i is variable VVT.

Now if what he stated to me is true(which I do not have any doubt), that means that you may not lose vvt-i if you have upgrade your cams Maikl!

His cams was purchase for the 20v. I do not know if there are from Todaracing or TRD, by there cam from Miami.

I will try and see how the VVT setup works in this case tomorrow.

Just did some research, and it may seem right now that toda offer cams for VVT system.

In fact, with further research, VVT and VVT-i is in the VVT controller. But here is where the problem can arise.

Qoute from Bill Sherwood (http://www.billzilla.org/vvtvtec.htm):-

"The early VVT system was relatively simple, ie, at a specific rpm (~4400rpm on the 20 valve 4AGE's) the computer signals the OCV to open, this lets oil pressure go through a special gallery in the #1 inlet cam bearing, through the centre of the inlet cam to the VVT pulley. There's a small piston in the VVT pulley, and once it gets enough pressure behind it, it starts to move outwards, causing the outer part of the pulley to turn in relation to the inner part, due to the helical spline that guides the piston's fore & aft movement."

So if you purchase a cam not design for vvt, good bye vvt, but if you buy a cam enable vvt, you are in luck

So Maikl, there may be some hope for you.

Looking at todaracing, you can get cams with vvt.

My mistake was that once you go to a big cam, you would want to dial in the HP and torque for you driving habits or where there just occurs at their max. If you use a Cam Gear, you will lose vvt, vvt-i.

So maikl, http://www.todaracing.com/products/toyota/..._3sg_specs.html

264 would be good for you. Idle a little rough
maikl
so what you areb telling me is if i order the 264 camshaft will fit my car? are you sure men? oh by the way my brother has a corolla with the 4age 20v black top biggrin.gif
west_minist
Yes.

That good.

Has he modify it let?

Let me know when he does biggrin.gif

Ok, here is our project.

We have modify the silver top 20v to very close to 200HP w/ 264 cams with vvti, trd header, polish head and other little stuff.

Our new plans is for a black top. are :-
New polish head, 8.0 or 8.3 low compression pistons, 264 cams from the silver top, new TB, and turbo. and other stuff.

The head is all that we are waiting on.

We have the silver top bottom.

The silver top was turbocharge with normal cams and head. behave like a beast.

So, when ever your brother starts, let me know.
maikl
no my brother is not the biggest fan of speed the only thing he has on his car is some 15s rims and suspension but its very beautifull is the 1998 model and its silver and it is fast as it is! now as for me do you thing the toda cams will fit my car with out any proplem?
west_minist
Yes.

As I keep in telling you, contact toda racing for the best cam you want.

frown.gif on your brother. Does he have a Levin?

264 idles slight rough. This is base on the 4age 20v 264 cams.

Maikl, you must do some reading. It will help you alot.
maikl
i had a levin before i got my ss-iii i had the black top engine with an air filter an exhaust and iridium sparks, it was white with 16s it was realy beautiful! now as for me doing my reading i belive that i know enought about engines but i dont uynderstand english very well and i do not know how to write my oppinions down anyway the guy who brings the toda in cyprus told me that there are no cams for my car made by toda this is why i asked you if you are sure, if you say you are sure i will order them tomorow because i trust you know better
west_minist
Ok. I have been stress out the last couple of weeks at work.

He is right. I am very sorry.

(Unconsciously, I knew the statement below would work when I told you so. I had always knew and did not think twice when I lose my VVT-i upgrading to bigger cams)

You can use the 3SGTE Cams since the 3SGE gen 4 head is the same in the cam profile as the 3 gen 3SGTE.

Even it you lose the vvt-i, it is ok since you will be running big cams to over come that effect.

I will contact toda racing on your behalf and post the email here. Is that alright?

You see, at the end of the day, you are modding to the 3SGTE specs.

There is no strenght differents in the blocks of the 3rd gen 3SGTE and the 4 Gen 3SGE.

http://www.toysport.com/ENGINE%20EVOLUTION...0THE%203SGE.htm
http://www.toysport.com/3sgt_tech_notes.htm

Did you check out that site.

In the usa, there are really specialise there. Toda racing is a Japanese company.

There make racing parts for all the well know cars.

Alot of 3SGTE builds ups come from the 3SGE which is contrary to manu USAer believes.

It is may be easier to get the a 3SGTE block, but it can be started from the 3SGE block, install some oil coilers in the head (maybe present in the latest gen 3SGE, 11.5:1) since the 4AGE 20v have them.)

http://www.todaracing.com

If you need help with the english, you have all of us here.

I have msn and AIM.

Again, I wll try and see what toda can do for you.

Look here!

A 3sge is a 3sge.

Available for: 4AG, 4AG (5 valve), 3SG, 7MG

TODA Racing offers a complete valve train package for the 4AG, 3SG, and 7MG. These kits are recommend when using high lift, long duration camshafts. They will prevent engine damage and power loss due to valve float.
Engine Price Comment
4AG $880 Complete Kit
4AG $220 AE101 (5 valve engine) Valve springs only
4AG $220 AE111 (5 valve engine) Valve springs only
4AG $120 Valve Springs Only
3SG $900 Complete Kit


Available for: 4AG, 3SG, 3SGT, 1ZZ, 2ZZ
(4AG Flywheel shown)

TODA Racing lightweight flywheels increase throttle response and aide in overall vehicle performance. These are not modified stock flywheels, but brand new units produced from 100% chromoly steel. In addition to these flywheels, TODA Racing also offers high performance clutch packages which include a TODA flywheel, pressure plate, and disk. Please contact us for pricing on clutch kits.
Engine Weight Price Comment
AE86 4AG ~ 4/1987 3.7 kg $450 Fits Corolla and AW11 MR2
AE92 4AG ~ 4/1989 3.7 kg $450
AE92 4AG 5/1989 ~ Up 4.4 kg $450
AE101 4AG 4.4 kg $450
SW20 3SG 4.5 kg $450
SW20T 3SGT 4.5 kg $450

Toyota 3SGT Camshaft Specifications

Price :$370 (For cams up 9.8mm lift); $490 (for cams with more than 9.9mm lift)
Part # Duration Lift (mm)
3SG-SW001 256 8.5
3SG-SW002 256 9.0
3SG-SW011 264 8.5
3SG-SW012 264 9.0
3SG-SW013 264 10.3
3SG-SW021 272 8.5
3SG-SW022 272 9.0
3SG-SW023 272 10.3
3SG-SW031 280 10.3
3SG-SW041 288 8.5
3SG-SW042 288 9.0
3SG-SW043 288 10.0
3SG-SW044 288 10.5
3SG-SW051 304 8.5
3SG-SW052 304 9.0
3SG-SW053 304 10.5
3SG-SW061 310 10.5
3SG-SW071 320 10.8


3SGTE 98-99 86.0 86.0 1998 9.0 260 6000 CALDINA ST215
3SGTE III 96-97 86.0 86.0 1998 8.5 255 6000 CELICA GT4 C. ALLTRAC ST205
3SGTE II 98-99 86.0 86.0 1998 8.5 245 6000 MR2 MR2 SW20
3SGTE I 92-93 86.0 86.0 1998 8.8 225 6000 MR2 MR2 SW21
3SGE IV 99-00 86.0 86.0 1998 11.0 210 7600 ALTEZZA DVVTi
3SGE IV 98-99 86.0 86.0 1998 11.0 200 7000 CEL. SSIII ST202
3SGE IV 98-99 86.0 86.0 1998 11.0 180 6600 RAV4 SXA11  
3SGE III 96-97 86.0 86.0 1998 10.3 170 6600 CARINA    
3SGE II 92-93 86.0 86.0 1998 10.0 165 6800 CELICA  
3SGE I 86-89 86.0 86.0 1998 10.0 145 6500 CELICA


Engine Type Valv/Cyl Year Disp. BHP Torque Bore Stroke CR stock boost+other remarks
/angle [*=JIS] [lb ft] [mm or inches]

3S-GE DOHC 4/50 95-98 1998 180@7000 142@4800 86 86
3S-GE DOHC+VVT-i 98- 1998 190@7000 152@6000 86 86
3S-GE DOHC+DualVVT-i 99 1998 200@7000 159@4800 86 86 11.5:1 JP Altezza (Auto5spd)
3S-GE DOHC+DualVVT-i 99 1998 210@7600 159@6400 86 86 11.5:1 JP Altezza (6spd)

3S-GTE DOHC 4/50 95-98 1998 255@6000 225@4000 86 86 (Celica GT-4 Japan)
3S-GTE DOHC 4/50 98 1998 260@6000 239@4400 86 86 (Caldina GT-T Japan
maikl
thanks........... and do what ever you thing its ok with me i just want to get some more power to my engine and it seems that nobady gives a s..t here in cyprus about my car. thanks for the understanding tongue.gif tongue.gif
west_minist
read my update at top again. I have to modify it for accuracy. smile.gif

I have sent them an email. So wait until I can get a very good comfirmation from them.
maikl
oh and something i want your oppinon what about adjustable campulleys? i looked in the ling you told me but it says that i will lose the vvt-i if i use them so what do you thing? get only the cams? i am thinging getting them both and f..k the vvt-i the vvt-i is just for fuel economy nothing that will effect my hp anyway, tell me what cams to get and i will
west_minist
Yes as I state to you. Once you are looking for serious power, you will lost it.

That is why I am having difficulty with you and others on low power.

Check you the Supra and others.

Yes. go for the cam gear from either HKS or Jun. I like them better than the toda.

The cams will be the 3SGTE.

It is up to you on the 264 or 272.

If you are really planning to do some really head work, 272 maybe good. My mechanic have a 4age 20v w/ 264 that idle farily rough. THe stock ecu have problems with it.

You have a aftermarket one, so it should not be a problem.

Do you have aim? Please log on

RC Engineering 550cc Injectors (enough head room over 240HP+[(actual 340hp+)] @ flywheel and for turbocharging later if you can. If not, use up to 420cc )
JUN GT Surge Tank (2015M-T001)
JUN SPROCKET (1033M-T702) OR HKS Cam Gear (2204-RT001)
JUN CAMSHAFT KIT (1033M-T005)
JUN STROKER KIT (1029M-T003) (87.0x92.0mm)
JUN Racing Valve Guide (1008M-T002)
JUN ULTRA LIGHT WEIGHT Flywheel (2010M-T012)

http://www.hksusa.com
By phone: (310) 491 3300 - M thru F 8am-5pm PST
By mail: HKS USA -13401 S.
Main Street -Los Angeles, CA 90061

http://www.motec.com
West Coast
5355 Industrial Drive
Huntington Beach, CA
92649

Tel: (714) 897-6804
Fax: (714) 897-8782

info@motec.com
East Coast
169-2 Gasoline Alley
Mooresville, NC
28117

Tel: (704) 799-3800
Fax: (704) 799-3874
Jay Caldwell jay@motec.com

http://www.autronic.com
Phone International (61) 7 4051 6672
Fax International (61) 7 4051 3683

Phone 07 4051 6672
Fax 07 4051 3683

Email info@autronic.com


http://www.junusa.com
http://www.junauto.co.jp/index-e.html
info@junauto.co.jp

PHONE
81-3-3920-4165
FACSIMILE
81-3-3594-2689

http://www.kaazusa.com
Newport Exotic Cars
935-A Sunset Drive
Costa Mesa, California 92627 USA
phone (949) 631-0990,
fax (949) 631-0909
newportcars@kaazusa.com

http://www.todaracing.com
Official North American Distributor
AKH Trading
192 Technology Drive, Suite V
Irvine, CA 92618 USA
Tel: 949-450-1056
Fax: 949-450-1059
E-mail: toda@todaracing.com

http://www.rceng.com
1728 Border Ave
Torrance, CA. 90501

Phone (310) 320-2277
Fax (310) 782-1346
RC@RCEng.Com
west_minist
I have also contacted Jun on this matter.

Can you check out your cam profile for your engine again other 3sge including the the ST185 and the ST205 3SGTE?

This info would help.

Toda responded to me but I need more info from them.

It seems that there offer cams for the old 3sge and as usual do not want to commit to the 94+ gen and up.

Ok, here is email1:- "Thank you for your e-mail and interest in TODA Racing. Our 3SG parts are only for the older 3SG(T) engines. We don't offer any parts for the newer 3SG Celica engines. "

The 3SG(T)= 3SGE & 3SGTE

I have sent him what year up to that he offers. From what I have been reading, the heads are the same. The 98 Head came out with vvti and the Black top came with VVT-i on both cams.

We just need to confirm if the cams have the same dimensions since we will not be using vvt.

I have also ask him if we can return unsed parts.

If you want, you can order a 264 and see how it looks. I am waiting on JUN since there are more up to date in there parts.

Also, you can resell them on ebay if there do not match up properly. That would be a better bet

If not just be patient. We want to do this right. If you go ahead, we can add this to 6gc for cams that work with the 3SGE 98+

Check out this

Ivan Tighe Engineering Pty Ltd
t/a Tighe Cams
225 Montague Rd
West End Qld 4101 Australia
A.B.N. 46 009 747 139
Tel (07) 3844 4283 Fax (07)38463662

Internet: www.tighecams.com.au
Email: sales@tighecams.com.au

I will email them now.
west_minist
Maikl!

Here is an update from toda.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We offer the following Toyota 3SG camshafts:

3SG (ST162 Celica)
3SGT (SW20 MR2 turbo)
3SGE (Japanese market Toyota Alteza only)

No other 3SG applications are offered by TODA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

3SGE IV 99-00 86.0 86.0 1998 11.0 210 7600 ALTEZZA DVVTi

3S-GE DOHC+DualVVT-i 99 1998 200@7000 159@4800 86 86 11.5:1 JP Altezza (Auto5spd)
3S-GE DOHC+DualVVT-i 99 1998 210@7600 159@6400 86 86 11.5:1 JP Altezza (6spd)

I think the red and black top Beams are the same head. There cam out the same year. I do not see toyota producing different heads for vvt-i and dual vvt-i. That mean that you should be able to get the cams for the Altezza to work in yours.

Can you do some research on this and see how the Oil Control Valve for vvt-i fits the altezza so that you can add it to your engine for more perfomance?

You do not have to. Again, if you are planning to use cam gears, vvti is dead.

No word from JUN yet
maikl
thanks again you realy take this seriusly smile.gif but i am a bit of confused i dont know what cams to get please tell me wich ones to take
west_minist
I have not recieve any word from Jun yet.

You ask me to let you know what you can order.

I am not liable for damage to your engine and not abl to return parts that purchase.

If you want, you can resell stuff through ebay.

Call Toda Racing and Jun (contacts above) and explain to them that you need:-

AN Intake 264 cam and an 264 Exhaust cam for the Altezza.

You would also need (but not) 2 cam gears. If the intake is VVT-i enable which there did not dispute, then you will have vvt-i on the intake.
west_minist
Hi Maikl!

Still no word from JUN. I sent them an Email one last time about the same matter.

Any word from Jun down your side?
maikl
no nothining yet.............. not from toda either
west_minist
QUOTE (maikl @ May 21, 2003 - 11:34 AM)
no nothining yet.............. not from toda either

Ok.
west_minist
Any update Maikl?
maikl
nop nothing yet about the engine but i've got my new rims today biggrin.gif mim 17s with the falken 215/40/zr17
west_minist
Ok.
west_minist
Hey Maikl!

Did you follow up on the toda or jun racing cams?

Did you atleast purchase and intake one and see if it comes very close to the orginal one?
maikl
nop at this point i have bigger problem with my car if you remember i had a act six pad racing disc and a jun light flywheel and my stock clucth cover or presure plate i dont know how you call it, anyway because my clucth cover was stock my clucht was not working 100% untill one week ago were my clucth cover broken so i've put my stock flywheel and disc and a stock clucth cover, untill my uncle who is a car dealer <i work there> comes from osaki japan and bring me a prersure plate, so for now the cams will have to wait........ oh by the way have you seen the new pics on my profile? biggrin.gif
west_minist
Get either a clutch kit from toda racing or Jun

Comes with everything.

Sell the extra parts on Ebay motors.

Looks nice.

Before you rush out and buy parts, please let us know first.
maikl
well i posted this clutch proplem of my car and asked for some help, but nobady reply frown.gif anyway i will get the presure plate with the roulemans either cusco or trd, my clutch disc is ok so there is no reason to change it
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