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HyperDeathKill
I was reading the latest June 2003 import tuner and came across the Hyper Ground System in their turning pages. Under pros they said it had become a favorite product for them since it can make a lot of power and is pretty affordable comparted to other aftermarket products. However the Dyno showed absolutely no HP gain. And for cons they said it was the first time they were unable to produce a lot of power with the wires.

Does anybody have previous issues of this mag where they do produce a lot of power with grounding wires? Anybody have these? Know someone who does? Heard about them?
FallenHero
Ok, I've got an issue where the wires made 17 lb-ft,but it had to be a misprint or something, because that's a good bit of power.
west_minist
Check out April 2003 Turbomagazine Issue on page 86

http://www.sunautomobile.com

Grounding will added up to >0.1 - 1+HP depending on your existing ground + EMI noise in your car system.

The ground in your car, as it age, are not very good.

Because all cars now have electronics, the tolerance for interference is very high and you can have electronics not operating withing its tolerance.

Thoses CBers, Audio enthusiast know what I am talking about.

All components is grounded to the car frame. But look where the bad grounding comes in.

Now since all grounds are attach to the car frame, you only have 1+ grounds connected to the engines mass structure which is not a very good conductor all round since there are many electronics points and plate connections.

If is was all one blob of aluminium or steel or iron, then everything would be good.

So by using properly low resistance, EMI reduction wires, then you move toward a large mass grounded structure since you have the engine grounded at critical points.

This mean that full power will be supply to spark plugs (low resistance ground) and reduce EMI in the system. (which is feed back to the ECU)

Also, please note that a DC meter cannot measure a ground properly.

In a DC enviromnet, it is ok. But we are in a different environment. That enviroment consist of AC (Alternating Current) which is very sensitive to impedances changes and EMI noise. This impedance changes affects performances (sensors changes their characteristics a little bits, which the ecu have to compensate for).

This is why you have plug wire made to reduce EMI, spark plugs with resistors built in and shielding for sensitive equipment.

To summarise:- Adding HyperGound cables will increase HP+torque by a marginal amount depending on the number of cables use and where the those cables are attach to and how bad your ground system is and current electrical load (highly mods cars).

If you like, we can going into discuss on this latter.
ghostdog
I didn't understand half of what west minist just said, sorry man, but theres a similar topic going on at celica.net

http://www.celica.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.c...c;f=29;t=004072
edo17982
I have R1 ground wire system on my car and the engine is smoother, better start and more linear during the entire RPM range.
west_minist
Sorry about that. I will edit it tomorrow and go over it again. Sorry about that. I am thinking about 2 things at a time.

Car and IT

I just look at celica.net and no one was able to describe why the wires work and was mislead into plug wires.

Once you understand how electrical system works and what affects them, then you can see through some terminologies being put out there.

Let me read what I have now before tomorrow so that I can see where you are having problems understanding.

Slight edited version above.

Looking back at the April issue, high modify cars (ignition, ecu and so on) showed HP increase up 15HP. Again, these are highly modifed cars with loaded electrical systems.

So guys, expect to see any where from 0.1 - 2+hp
boosted_K2
i understood it. awesome info... i have another question, which i think i already know the answer to. these things really wont make a big difference on cars that dont have alot of electronics or stereo equipment will they?
ghostdog
ahh, I re-read it and I get it now west minist, thanks for the info.

a question though. as far as doing our own grounding setup, what kind of wire should we use and from where to where should it go for optimum effectiveness?
west_minist
You do not have to apply ground if you really do not see the need for it.

But if you are looking for that consistancy and that extra hp for well being, then grounding would help.

Put it this way, if you are in car audio, CBing or in general getting interference in your radio, grounding will help.

To your question gh0st_d0g:-

You can use normal big properly made and terminated ground straps. again, if you can get HyperGround, then get it, since it has be shown to offer more low resistance effectiveness than normal ground wires. Also, there have a very high content of copper to other wires and also have heat shield to keep the wires cools.

As the temperature of wire increases, the resisance of the wire increase by a very small amount.

As there article stated and it does make sense in term of setup :- >>>>> Make cure all contact surface are clean and well mated

1) Attach a ground strap to the -ve side of thebattery to the car body.
2) Attach the other ground strap from the battery (-ve) to the engine block (head) or transmission. Which ever comes first.
3) In this daisy chain setup, attach from the head to the throttle body (where your injectors are)
4) attach from that point to car body.

You can place the wires where you think it is critical.
HyperDeathKill
Hmmm .1 to 2+ horse? Well that seems like a pretty big risk for $100. If I were gaurenteed 2 horse, I could see myself doing it. But if you are right west then it doesn't look like I'll be doing this mod soon.
west_minist
If you are at stock (just filter and exhaust), you do not need it.

Once you start stepping up to the big boys arena, it is a must wink.gif
jayi12-15psi
it makes more sense to me to buy some 8 guage wire and some connectors and do a daisy chain from the negative battery terminal, cost me $10 instead of $100 and I noticed increased throttle response, and an overall smoother torque curve, as far as horsepower goes i dunno
jayi12-15psi
whats different about the systems they sell for $100 than mine?
west_minist
you do not need 8 gauge. But you see, thats the thing.

There wires are suppose to be better and ready made for you.

I suppose there must be a particular lenght.

The wire are also 99% copper.

It has many jackets and wire strands.

Use in racing at ver high temperatures.

You cannot use standard cables in the engine. There will melt.

Check out the link above for more details.

But I stated ground straps, not cables.

Again, in low mods, the straps will do. Nology and other man. makes them.

I would not advice 6gc to use them unless there are look to make 60+hp which entail alow of mods including electronics.
ghostdog
apparently our cars come with 10 gauge grounds, so I would go with 4 guage and you might see an improvement.

heres a picture of some grounds a corolla owner made:

user posted image


again I'm not totally sure what to make of west minist's comments. are you saying its not a good idea to make your own because the wires will melt?
edo17982
those wires are specifically studied to have a ground function......
the way they are made of and the materials are the best for a ground function....make your own will work, but for sure will never reach their functionality.
For sure as everybody said in a lightly modded engine it will make no much difference but in my opinion...if you want to do a thing do it well!! wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif
west_minist
QUOTE (edo17982 @ May 26, 2003 - 5:23 PM)
those wires are specifically studied to have a ground function......
the way they are made of and the materials are the best for a ground function....make your own will work, but for sure will never reach their functionality.
For sure as everybody said in a lightly modded engine it will make no much difference but in my opinion...if you want to do a thing do it well!! wink.gif  wink.gif  wink.gif

QUOTE

apparently our cars come with 10 gauge grounds, so I would go with 4 guage and you might see an improvement.
heres a picture of some grounds a corolla owner made:
user posted image
again I'm not totally sure what to make of west minist's comments. are you saying its not a good idea to make your own because the wires will melt?

What I am saying is that the plastic material on the wires would melt.

There are not made to have that much heat.

That is why you would use ground straps like what Nology have.

It is a braid wire terminated at both ends.

When you make your wires, termination is a problem. There is a art on wires termination. How you crimp, solder and so on.

Have you ever wonder why current carry wires get hot at there connections/termination points?

user posted image

As I stated before, you can make your own properly, but when you start moving up the ranks, get something that was properly made and demonstrated to work more efficiently.
ghostdog
okay thanks west minist, thats the answer I was looking for.

btw, what is your name, we're all on a first name basis here smile.gif

- Pete
west_minist
Edward rolleyes.gif
FallenHero
When they do this mod in the magazines, it normlly doesn't make much of a hp difference, it's normally the torque that it affects.
west_minist
HP is derive from torque.

I advice you to read the magazine and what I have up top.

There is a bigger picture to this thing that what you may realise.

Just remember that there uses these things in racing. Eg, like in JGTC, Nascar and so on.
HyperDeathKill
I'm extremely well versed in physics, but not in cars at this moment. How would adding torque affect my driving as opossed to adding horse?
west_minist
QUOTE (HyperDeathKill @ May 26, 2003 - 10:23 PM)
I'm extremely well versed in physics, but not in cars at this moment. How would adding torque affect my driving as opossed to adding horse?

Torque gets you moving while hp keeps it there. I think that is correct.

HP is what gives you those high number in km/h

Check for instant trucks. There have alot of torque, but extremely low HP.

There can pull, but cannot travel over 100mph.

Check the 1600cc cars. alot of hp, but cannot move properply without stalling.

FallenHero
I always thought of it like this. Torque is low end power, Hp is high end power.
KAMiX
The easiest way to explain torque, is that a car with low torque will struggle when going up a hill or towing a speedboat - No matter how much horsepower it has.

tractors have hella torque smile.gif


Also I'm fairly sure that higher torque would affect your cornering slightly thinking back on my physics days. Although because I can't remember all the equations I can't prove it to you!
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