The car is ready to run etc. but the problem i am having now is that the fuel pump is not running. I am pretty sure its not the fuel pump with the issue, and ive used a voltmeter to test the lines going to it and they are not bringing power.

Is a relay out possibly? i know the fuel pump needs certian things in the car to work for it to run..

I jumped the +B and Fp terminals and then put the car in the ON position and still no power to the pump


any ideas?

who did your harness?
check the fueses first, make sure all your plugs are propperly plugged in.
then start checking the wiring from the fuel pump relay, and the COR.

Doc Tweak did it,

i'll go see what i can do about checking that stuff


ps: where is the fuel pump relay located as well as the COR?

they should be next to your ecu. black one is COR, yellow is fuel pump.

if you jumped b+ and Fp then the problem is not with the relay. jumping those 2 bypasses the relays. if thats not working then there is either a mistake in the harness wiring or you forgot to plug everything in.

alright ill check the harness to make sure its all hooked in.. if the wiring is supsect what should i check first on it to see about the fuel problem?

also are usdm and jdm ecu's wired in different?

did you contact tweak?... since he did the work, im sure he would best know how to remedy the issue

yea i haven't been able to reach him for the last two weeks, won't reply my emails... he's a busy guy i guess, especially with fastbirds swap going down

You didn't tell me you were having a fuel problem.... which ECU are you using? What year is it from and is it a JDM or USDM ECU? What year was the harness from and again, JDM or USDM. Are you sure the C/OPN relay is plugged in? It's a fairly large relay that is usually either bolted to the ECU or very close to it. You can find it by following the green/red "FC" wire from the ECU, which will be on either pin 14 of the 22-pin connector or pin 17 of the 26-pin connector.

Also, using a volt-meter, check and see if you're getting 12v from the "+B" terminal in the diagnostic block to a ground (with the key on).

-Doc

THanks again Doc, you are a lifesaver


Its all from a 93 JDM all-trac

my batt is dead so when its charged ill check the +B for a current

ok i charged the batt and i am not getting any power whatsoever to the +B terminal in the diagnostics plug.

i'm not sure what to do next


thanks guys

your COR is probably not wired up right

When you turn the key to the on position, does your check engine light come on steady?

Okay, if you're sure that the +B terminal has no power to it, then double-check your connections at the fuse box, the large plug can come loose if it's not plugged in right, there is a white clip that holds it in place. Also double-check your connections in the interior. Then if that doesn't change anything, check for positive power at the black/yellow wire on the bottom of the fusebox (the part that comes off) directly opposite the EFI main relay, with the key switched on of course.

Also check to see if you have positive power at the black/orange wire that goes to the coil and ignitor.

Let me know. Do you have my personal phone number?

-Doc

you know the EGR you we talked about? the one from the 5sfe, where do i hook that into the vac system?

Don't worry about that right now, it probably won't be used. Let's just get the engine started first.

-Doc

ok

1. the check engine light is not on. and does not come on at all when keys are in

2. cheked fuse connections and interior connections they appear fine

3. there IS power at the bk-yellow wire ad the bottom of the fuse box (there were two a big and a small but getting 12 volt on both)

4. there IS power to the bk-orange wire at BOTH the coil and ignitor




the only things i know that aren't set yet, are the vac hoses to the EGR that came from the 5sfe, and the large ground behind the intake manifold



oh yes thank you soooo much Tweak, Manny, Lagos and everyone else for helping me so far through this swap, trust me i'm learning a lot and don't know where i would be without 6gc

you might want to hook that one up

does it bolt on anywhere special, i know i'm slightly clueless for not hooking it up yet.. i'm getting ahead of myself.

let me make sure its a ground, its a black wire but looks different than the other grounds on the car, almost thicker and more intense. does it go to the manifold or firewall?

there is a ground wire on the back of the motor. if i remember correctly it bolts to the intake manifold using a 12m bolt. you have to get under the car to do it. make sure its nice and secure.

shall do good thing the axles aren't in yet gives me more space to reach up there

It goes on the back bottom of the intake manifold on the runner second closest to the timing belt. This is THE ground for you ECU. My bet is that your car will start right up after this is put on there... While you are at it, make sure you have the ground from the top of the tranny to the battery and from the batter to the chassis hooked up, along with the ground near the alternator to near the power steering resevior. I also believe the ignitor needs to be grounded (either through its bracket or directly to the chassis w/ a wire).

-Charlie

damn im stupid, alright i have them all hooked up cept the large one and the resistor is not grounded since there was not enough slack to have it reach its mount. I'll go get those grounded,


blah i knew that ground would was important

you say it goes to the second runner correct? well for my car the second runner is a 14mm bolt and the bolt won't fit through the ground.... any ideas?

Just make sure that ground is bolted to the manifold, the exact location doesn't really matter. That's most likely your problem.

-Doc

She is bolted on and grounded.

still no power to the +B terminal and not starting.. what do i try next?

what is the car doing... does the starter even crank?

oh yes the starter cranks fine, my step dad sprayed starter fluid in and the car fired that for a second, but im not getting fuel at all, and i'm getting no power to the fuel pump and no power to the +B terminal

but, you also said that your diagnostic (cel, oil...etc) lights dont come on when you put the key in the ON position, right?

did you install and aftermarket pump? i think walbros wont work at all if you mix up the positive and negative wiring.

if you want a ghetto way to test the pump, run a wire directly from the battery + to the FP terminal in the fuese box. you should hear the pump come on.

also ..doubble check that you have all your plugs hooked up. there are 6 big ones from the harness to the ecu and interrior.

its an sw20 pump,

and yes i am not getting a check engine light at all....


but i will definatly try that trick with the batt and Fp

thanks lagos

from your battery... you have a ground wire connected to the tranny AND to the chasis of the car, right?

if your not getting any diag lights then ...

you either forgot to plug something in on the interrior of the car

forgot a ground wire

or the wiring isint done correctly.

You're not getting pwr from the EFI relay
pull out your EFI relay (under the hood), put the key in the ign position and test the relay socket pin 1 and 2 (positive and negative of the relay coil), it's indicated on the relay which is which. If you don't have 12V+, check the "ign 7.5A" fuse. That could be your problem.
If thats fine, test out the relay by applying voltage to pin 1-2, you should here it click. If not, replace the relay.

You will know when the EFI circuit works when you see the engine light come on with the key in the ign position.

One way to TEST (only test) the EFI circuit is by shorting pin 3-4 of the socket (with the key in the ign position). Remove it imediately after the test. However, I do not recommend trying this.

As for the fuel pump, it works directly off of the EFI circuit, so no EFI, no fuel pump.

Good luck, let us know what comes up

ok ny meet is today so ill test all of this tommorrow ASAP

thanks a bunch gusy ill keep you posted

actualy, i made things a lil more complicated than they really are

first step would be to just turn the key to the ign position and have a helping hand check for the relay "click"

then proceed with the complicated stuff

Is this the wire you checked in number 3? (It may be black/yellow or black/red):



That's the one you need to check for 12v with the key to on. Also, with the key off, check for resistance (continuity) between this wire, +B in the diagnostic terminal, and +B at the ECU, which is at the end of the 22-pin connector, and is either black/red or black/yellow (it should match the color of the wire in the fusebox).

Then we'll go from there. Shoot me an email when you get back on Sunday and if I can I'll give you a call.

-Doc

I was incorrect in my test before,

the black/yellow taht you show above^ is NOT getting any power wkhen the key is in the ON postiion or at all for that matter

also i tried Art's suggestion with jumping batt to Fp and that worked to supply power to the pump to test that section of wiring etc.

have you tried what I suggested?

cause from your diagnotics i'm positive your EFI circuit is not working

edit: your focus should not be on the fuel pump but on finding why the EFI circuit is not getting power

Your ignition switch is supose to turn on that circuit, you said the black-orange for the injectors is getting power so your problem is from the "ign 7.5A" fuse down to the EFI relay.

K-ESD is correct, there's nothing wrong with the fuel pump circut, so just put that out of your head.

Number one, like K-ESD said, have someone put their finger on the EFI main relay and feel if it clicks when you switch the key to the one position. If it does not click, then check the 7.5 amp IGN fuse and make sure it's okay. Then remove it, switch the key to on, and check to make sure that you're getting 12v from one of the pins that it went to.

If you DO get a click from the EFI main relay, then check the 15 amp EFI fuse, and then check to see if you're getting power at the pink wire that goes to the bottom of the relay. This wire should have power all the time, even with the key off. Also check continuity between the white/black wire and a good ground to make sure that there is a low resistance.

*edit* I just PMd you my phone number, give me a call.

-Doc

yes i understand that the problem is not the fuel circuit, that is just the symptom of the EFI problem



ok i pulled the efi relay and tested it and it clicks

the 15 amp fuse was blown when i checked it today, but i replaced it and it didn't solve much, since it was fine before.... but i also checked the pink while i was there and the pink wire is not getting power at any time..

EDIT: I just went out to double check the pink wire for the 15amp fuse, and the 15 amp itself was blown. I then checked and i am getting 12v from it. I'm not sure how it blew though

i double checked the EFI main and it clicks upon turning the key etc.

So, did you replace the fuse? Do you get power from the pink wire when the fuse is good? Or are you saying that every time you turn the key to on the fuse blows?

PM me your number again and I'll call you in about 1/2 an hour.

-Doc

you're getting closer
relay works so you can move down the circuit.

Doc should be able to guide you from here, you're on the right track

Good luck

i'm going to have to buy more fuses and test it tommorrow to see when exactly the fuse blows, etc.

ill be around mid-day tommorrow working on the car


sent you a pm with my #

ok here is the update...

the 15amp fuse blows everytime the key is put to the"on" position




thats basically it


now i just need to find out why it is frying

OK with tweaks help i have made progress (for anyone who wants to know: here is the update)


the 15 amp fuse blowing was due to either a short or something with the boost controller (stock thing) anyway i broke it a while back and just pushed the broken peice back on and should have left it unplugged.

That was creating the issue,

now i crank the engine and recieve these two error codes if i am not mistaken


14 and 22


whicch are

14 - IGN No "IGF" signal to ECU 8-11 times Check Igniter, ignition coil

22 - WTR Open or short in Water Temp Sensor Check Water Temp Sensor



I am assuming that the 14 code is why the engine won't fire?

Hmm this is odd.

Yes, code 14 will cause the engine to not start. Double-check that you have power at the ignitor and the coil. I take it you're not getting any spark, right?

The water temp sensor is a little wierd too. Is it plugged in right? Here's a copy of the pinout for the 3SGTE engine:



It appears my server is down right now, it should be up before long. Anyway, check for continuity (low resistance) between the brown wire at the coolant temp sensor (it's the one towards the end of the upper radiator hose housing) and ground, then between the red wire and the red wire at pin THW at the ECU.

Also check for continuity between IGT at the ignitor (white) and IGT at the ECU, along with IGF (black/yellow) and IGF at the ECU.

Lastly, what year is the ECU you are running, what is the part number, and does which year set in the above pinout does your harness match?

-Doc

check your harness plug that goes to the ignitor.

i had this same issue after my swap, and so did another guy who was just doing a 5sfe-5sfe swap. the problem is that the harness plug is not making good contact at one of the connectors. i think on mine it was the blue and white wire. also, doubble check that you are getting power from the main black and orange wire that feeds the coil.

Edit: it also gave me code 14

Same here - that was my plug mistake on my swap. (it'll try to start for a couple cranks, then nothing)

Tweak has some good places to debug there, so you'll figure this out soon enough.

-Charlie

PS. I told you to leave the turbo VSV unplugged until after the motor started!

i guess i should pay more attention


oh boy, atleast im learning a lot!


I'll try all of those things above^^ tommorrow morning when the sun comes up

I'm going to have to draw a diagram of this.. my ecu plugs do not match either set-ep.. well let me explain



the 16 pin connecter matches the plug on the bottom diagram (91-alltrac) well the colors don't all match but the layout does.


the 22 pin is missing the 13 spot and the 4 spot wires


the 26 pin..

has wires in the

1 2 3 4 5 6 X X 9 10 11 12 13
14 X X 17 18 X 20 X X 23 24 25 26






the ecu should be froma 93 all trac JDM

here are the numbers

3SGT

89661-2B280
175000-4812

I am getting power at the black and orange wire