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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Forced Induction
dans_st
I recently bought a JDM 7afe head and I am planning on swapping onto my 7af(t)e, I just cannot find any info on what to do since the JDM 7AFE does not have a distributor, I have tried searchin, and all I find is "JDM 3SGTE" stuff.
I would like any information I can get, I am not too concerned with the loss of EGR as my car is not using it right now anyways I just have a resistor on it and it seem fine.
I have also heard that I can use a ford EDIS system, what do I have to do to do this, I do not want to got over to a standalone, I currently am just running stock ECU with SAFC-II and plan to either looking into PROM tuning or if I cannot do that possibly go to E-manage ultimate.

Also is has anyone ever looked into siamesing the intake/head ports on intake side, I have done this on my 350 TPI Camaro, and it has really raised my powerband and output and the runners are very similar.I lost some torque output but am willing to do so to gain some higher RPM HP.

this is part of a long term project just I am trying to get as much info as I can.
thanks for your help
-Daniel
dans_st
also since I am probably not hitting the 300whp mark, what are your veiws on the tvis(in think that's what they are) butterflies???
thanks again
-Daniel
Kwanza26
QUOTE(dans_st @ Apr 8, 2007 - 6:23 AM) [snapback]544440[/snapback]

I recently bought a JDM 7afe head and I am planning on swapping onto my 7af(t)e, I just cannot find any info on what to do since the JDM 7AFE does not have a distributor, I have tried searchin, and all I find is "JDM 3SGTE" stuff.
I would like any information I can get, I am not too concerned with the loss of EGR as my car is not using it right now anyways I just have a resistor on it and it seem fine.
I have also heard that I can use a ford EDIS system, what do I have to do to do this, I do not want to got over to a standalone, I currently am just running stock ECU with SAFC-II and plan to either looking into PROM tuning or if I cannot do that possibly go to E-manage ultimate.

Also is has anyone ever looked into siamesing the intake/head ports on intake side, I have done this on my 350 TPI Camaro, and it has really raised my powerband and output and the runners are very similar.I lost some torque output but am willing to do so to gain some higher RPM HP.

this is part of a long term project just I am trying to get as much info as I can.
thanks for your help
-Daniel

What do you mean the JDM 7AFE doesn't have a distributor? Does it have coil over plugs, coilpacks, etc? You can hook up your USDM distributor and it should work so long as you use the stock ECU and the exhaust cam has the slot for the dizzy (which it should). Just because it's a "JDM 7AFE" doesn't make it any better than a USDM one. If you want to go DLI, then you'll need an aftermarket standalone ecu. No ifs ands or buts. The ford EDIS "mod" so to speak is typically used in conjunction with Megasquirt, a standalone ecu system. There is no practical way to "chip" the stock ECU to run DLI. Personally... I think the non-TVIS 7AFE head is far superior to the TVIS 7AFE head based on the intake port designs alone.

As for the intake manifold... if you're reffering to TVIS... here's some info for you. TVIS is NOT a horsepower design. It is a designed based on restriction and intake velocity to make torque below 4000rpms or so... IMO, it's completely useless depending on the type of turbo you're running. FYI, most 3SGTE guys when they go with bigger turbos and more efficient set-ups... they get rid of TVIS because it's a restriction under low throttle and rpms.
dans_st
QUOTE
Kwanza26 Posted Yesterday, 02:48 PM
What do you mean the JDM 7AFE doesn't have a distributor? Does it have coil over plugs, coilpacks, etc? You can hook up your USDM distributor and it should work so long as you use the stock ECU and the exhaust cam has the slot for the dizzy (which it should). Just because it's a "JDM 7AFE" doesn't make it any better than a USDM one. If you want to go DLI, then you'll need an aftermarket standalone ecu. No ifs ands or buts. The ford EDIS "mod" so to speak is typically used in conjunction with Megasquirt, a standalone ecu system. There is no practical way to "chip" the stock ECU to run DLI. Personally... I think the non-TVIS 7AFE head is far superior to the TVIS 7AFE head based on the intake port designs alone.

As for the intake manifold... if you're reffering to TVIS... here's some info for you. TVIS is NOT a horsepower design. It is a designed based on restriction and intake velocity to make torque below 4000rpms or so... IMO, it's completely useless depending on the type of turbo you're running. FYI, most 3SGTE guys when they go with bigger turbos and more efficient set-ups... they get rid of TVIS because it's a restriction under low throttle and rpms.


I beleive my head was meant to be ran off a coil-pack type setup being triggered by a camshaft angle sensor.
the head does not have the opening for the dist to mount-connect to cam.
I currently have the OEM intake manifold that I have ceramic coated and ported as much as I feel as I can safely go, and I know that the TVIS head does have smaller ports, but there are two of them and what I wanted to do was to weld a plate on top and bottom or runners and siamese the ports to make one bigger runner and do the head as far as I could also. So that I could get more airflow.And correct me if I am wrong but in theory due to the long runners I should get descent torqe, and larger cross section will allow more airflow allowing me to make more HP and also moving my powerband up as well where my turbo should help it out alot more.

Also, I understand what you are saying about the butterflies being a restriction (and to siamese the runner I would have to remove then anyways)
But, I had heard unless you are making 300+HP you would want to keep them and I don't think I am going to be making over 300HP so I was just making sure I wouldn't be losing power by taking them out, And I understand I will be losing torque but I would rather have the high RPM HP instead.

Also if it would help to identify the head easier tomorrow I could try and take some pictures
-Daniel
Kwanza26
QUOTE(dans_st @ Apr 11, 2007 - 5:25 AM) [snapback]545504[/snapback]

I beleive my head was meant to be ran off a coil-pack type setup being triggered by a camshaft angle sensor.
the head does not have the opening for the dist to mount-connect to cam.
I currently have the OEM intake manifold that I have ceramic coated and ported as much as I feel as I can safely go, and I know that the TVIS head does have smaller ports, but there are two of them and what I wanted to do was to weld a plate on top and bottom or runners and siamese the ports to make one bigger runner and do the head as far as I could also. So that I could get more airflow.And correct me if I am wrong but in theory due to the long runners I should get descent torqe, and larger cross section will allow more airflow allowing me to make more HP and also moving my powerband up as well where my turbo should help it out alot more.

Unless you have an even port from the manifold to the head... it wouldn't matter too much, IMO. To me, it's just not a practical way to go about it. Why not just port out the old USDM head? I think that way you can at least physically control the way you want air to flow. With the dual runner head, there's a chunk of metal that acts as a restrictor between the two inlets. Unless that is cut away... I don't see this idea as being very practical.
QUOTE

Also, I understand what you are saying about the butterflies being a restriction (and to siamese the runner I would have to remove then anyways)
But, I had heard unless you are making 300+HP you would want to keep them and I don't think I am going to be making over 300HP so I was just making sure I wouldn't be losing power by taking them out, And I understand I will be losing torque but I would rather have the high RPM HP instead.

Also if it would help to identify the head easier tomorrow I could try and take some pictures
-Daniel

It's not a matter of numbers. It's all about what turbo you run and the engine response. If you run a smaller more efficient turbo, TVIS is gonna hurt performance down low because it doesn't take into account the faster spool, so you'll be running near full boost with 1/2 the runners closed. If you run a bigger turbo, it's still gonna be a restriction because it takes up space in the port, and it doesn't crossover fast enough to keep up with the mid-high end spool. TVIS is really only good for the stock set-up. Anything other than that... it works against it, IMO. If you look at 3SGTE dyno sheets, where guys run the stock turbo at 12-15psi, there is a significant dip in power during the crossover point where the TVIS butterflies open. This is true for the n/a 4AGEs also... and those make like... 110-120 whp?
dans_st
QUOTE

Kwanza26 Posted Today, 04:00 PM

Unless you have an even port from the manifold to the head... it wouldn't matter too much, IMO. To me, it's just not a practical way to go about it. Why not just port out the old USDM head? I think that way you can at least physically control the way you want air to flow. With the dual runner head, there's a chunk of metal that acts as a restrictor between the two inlets. Unless that is cut away... I don't see this idea as being very practical.



I actually was planning on cutting away the center, so that I had One larger runner(wider), and I do realize that iti s not very practical, but I can TIG the peices in and then port the passage out.
I am running a GT32 turbo (which is a little too big-i know), and I want to get higher flow to get some higher #'s and hopefully get it to spoll sooner also. I know that my throttle resonse will possibly suffer somwhat, but I don't mind it if I can get more power from my engine.
I am just really trying to get as much out of my 7A as possible without going ove to the 4A head. I plan on going over to the 3SGTE in a year or so I am just try9ing to experiment with this right now since no one has ever tried it.

And I do agree that the TVIS will be a restricion and it must come off to siamese the runners anyways, so that is definately getting taken out.
What I hope will get more power is since the two inatke runners will be opened up I can also port the head that much larger as well which will give me a much larger injtake port(on head) than the single runner could ever offer.

dans_st
I understand the TVIS problem, I plan to remove it all together, here is somewhat what I want to do and did to my camaro that really helped. I know that these are eisier to siamese but I actually did this with my OEM ones on my camaro by welding 2 plated in top and bottom of the runners, I will try and find a pic of some like mine later this weekend.
just scroll about half way down the page.

http://www.chevythunder.com/fuel_injection...mance_pg_1a.htm

I have already ported the USDM head and think that I can go alot further with this one if I do it like in the link
dans_st
here is the how-to on how I did my camaro which also shows the matching intake manifold, similar to what I want to do

http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/siameseport.shtml
normality78
Good question you've raised dans_st! All the while i was being keep thinking about this and i was just about to do.

This is exactly what is in my mind and wanna do.
IPB Image

Im having a 7AFE head with TVIS. However, i've removed all the mini flaps but the centre mini roundstick in it was not able to remove. Coz all the flas was using screw tighten but not the stick. I guess i will need to drill it off. Or... i might as well remove the entire TVIS stuff coz frm what i can see, its just an additional piece of metal which is removeable.

Next would be looking wat head job i can do to maximise it. Oversize valve?


Kwanza,
Do u have a pic of non TVIS 7AFE head? I wanna see how does it looks like so that i can hunt for one. If the pic do show the port design, that would be the best.
Kwanza26
IPB Image
Also read Bill Sherwood's comments regarding performance potential of both the TVIS 7A head and the non-TVIS 7A head.

http://www.billzilla.org/starleteng.htm
normality78
will give it a read. tks
normality78
erm.. guy's, 1 thing i dun really understand.

"However, the combustion chamber will need a lot of work to make it produce a lot of power. I've looked at a lot of different types of engines and found certain consistancies with squish areas that I will be using when finishing the chamber. I'll also be trying some Formula One style tricks with the chamber. This means a complicated piston top shape, and hopefully I can get exactly what I want made. The exhaust ports will also need a lot of work, but fortunately the work that needs to be done makes them end up all the same gives them a very efficient shape. The other reason I want to use this head is because they use 31mm diameter cam buckets, rather than the smaller 28mm ones that the 16 valve 4AGE's use, and somewhat larger than the 23mm ones the 20v heads use, so I can run a cam with quite a lot of duration & lift without having the lobes run off the sides of the buckets. I have found a standard 31mm Toyota bucket that uses no shims at all (it has a small 'stem' underneath that is trimmed to the right length to get the right valve clearance) and so is very light indeed."


is he reffering to 7AFE head having standard 31mm diameter cam bucket? Or which F head he got himself there as per describe?
Kwanza26
QUOTE(normality78 @ Apr 20, 2007 - 2:11 AM) [snapback]548669[/snapback]

erm.. guy's, 1 thing i dun really understand.

is he reffering to 7AFE head having standard 31mm diameter cam bucket? Or which F head he got himself there as per describe?

Although I don't remember specifically looking at the TVIS 7AFE's buckets, I'm pretty sure they're the same between both heads. The version Bill Sherwood's talking about is just the non-TVIS version... it's not really any "special" head which he kinda comes of making it sound like. Either way, yes, the 7AFE head does use far superior cam buckets compared to the 16V 4AGE, which still uses a shim over bucket design that has an operating limit around 8000 rpms with big cams (they fall apart). The 7AFE's, like the 20V's, are one piece shim-under buckets. Although the buckets themselves can handle higher rpms and bigger cams, the overall design of the head, the narrow angle, and as mentioned, the combustion chamber still limits what one can do with a stockish 7AFE head.
normality78
do u think by porting the narrow angle will help abit? I don't wish to lose the low end torque here
Kwanza26
QUOTE(normality78 @ Apr 20, 2007 - 6:52 PM) [snapback]548859[/snapback]

do u think by porting the narrow angle will help abit? I don't wish to lose the low end torque here

The narrow valve angle design is for torque. Change it and you probably will affect the torque curve...
normality78
hm.... how about porting the exht port and smoothen the inlet port?
Ewie
Hi guys.
Im new to the forum and bought a 7AFE motor a week ago.
Its a t-vis vrsion and I dont have any specs on it.In our country we only get the smallport normal 7AFE and info on the t-vis version is nonexistend.
I would like to knpw the power figures and what other intrnal differences there is between these 2 versions of the 7AFE.
Thanks in advance.
dans_st
been a while since I even made this post.
head has just been sitting in my hatch....
well I have yet to find much info on it either, it is the TVIS head and intake that I have but it does not have the hole to use a distributor.
From what I have heard the best thing to do is to have the hole machined so that you can use the distributor.
Also it has dual round runners for the intake tract., which is the most notable difference.

As far as power difference I have yet to see any figures and have not yet swapped to this head.
dans_st
Also I haven't been on here in a while but the heads I do have do not have the distributor hole and that is not a picture of the head that I have the one I have has a dual runner setup.Also, the TVIS does not unbolt

this is what I have:









And also Ewie can you post a picture of your engine bay?
Ewie
Well my motor is an import that I bought fo my 7AGTE project so no engine bay pics but I do have pics of the motor.My tvis is a sandwitch plate between the intake and head,similar to the series1 4AGE setup.Also its got a distibutor but its fixed so timing cant be adjusted.
Here's a few pics:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/Ewird/DSCF0867.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/Ewird/DSCF0862.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/Ewird/DSCF0865.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/Ewird/DSCF0862.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/Ewird/DSCF0863.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/Ewird/DSCF0864.jpg
Seeing that this is a very rare motor on our side of the world I took it apon myself to strip it to the bone so that all its secrets can be revealed.
This is a local forum where the tread on this motor can be followed,pics will be added and discriptions given:
http://www.tolken.co.za/twincamforum/viewtopic.php?t=30670
Need as much info as possible so if anyone can help PLEASE do so wink.gif
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