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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > General Discussion
Random_Stranger
Search, search, search. What the funk ever. Dude, I can't even find the guy who is selling the bulbs for the freaking speedometer gauges (if you can direct him for me, that would be awesome, unless you know a better way). Anyways, I was wondering if a complete front clip is all I need (as far as parts go), or would I need other things? Was it worth it (money and time wise) in the end? Is there a better way to get more speed out of your celica than just that conversion and swap? Is just the swap more sensible? Bigger engine? What kind? Spit your knowledge for me here, so I have one source to save and always go back to.

Thanks,
Faust
Random_Stranger
Thanks. I would look but after a bit, all things sort of blur together. I appreciate it though.
MaskedMan
You can't find light bulbs and you want to do AWD conversion. Well then I must say that you are lightyears (pun intended) away from doing the conversion. Out of all the parts, the most important part of the AWD conversion is the ability to research, which you have already received an Epic fail for. Are there better ways to go faster than AWD conversion? Yes, it's called buying an ST185 and driving it. Even better idea, get an MR2, or heck, why not a Supra while your at it. Even with AWD, our cars are not extremely fast. They will actually be slower than FWD platform until you reach the higher HP numbers over a stock 3sgte. Reason being is that it will take more engine power to move all 4 wheels resulting in more drivetrain loss which equals less power to the wheels. AWD is great, it's fun, it grips, it's fungriptastic. You'll basically need the entire front clip of the GTfour, this means including all the suspension and brakes. You'll need the driveshaft, the floorpan, gas tank, rear diff, ok basically the entire front and rear of an ST205. Your other option is to fabricate EVERYTHING. That will be fun smile.gif.
Ok haha, I'm just messing with you. If you want to do the AWD conversion then please do, it would be very interesting to see. I just feel that there's no reason to be AWD until you've hit the 300+hp mark. Just throw some good tires up front and learn how to control your car well, and you'll be fine with FWD until then.
_mikeE
Good call MaskedMan, I was gonna say the same but you beat to me it, oh well anyway, yeah FWD drift and powerslides are fun dude, and if you get good at it, you can kinda pull it off as a RWD drift unless ppl know your car's already a FWD but hey it's all good. I would make a drift/powerslide video but i don't feel like ruining my tires especially if i just got new ones so yeah.
Anyway, you're better off NOT doing the AWD conversion unless you're a pro and even if you do manage to pull it off, you're not guaranteed stability in your vehicle. You're better off just purchasing an actual ST185 or wait til '09 and import yourself a ST205.
Anyhoo, get yourself a good suspension kit and good tires and if you want more power you can get a 3sgte and get the e153 (turbo mr2 lsd motor) or if you find one, get a TRD lsd module to put in the S54 and turbo a 5s motor and switch the ct26 turbine to a ct27. I've seen a couple LSD inserts on ebay, but...i'm quite iffy about those.
Random_Stranger
Cool thanks. And for the record, I realize I am not any where near ready for AWD or even the engine swap itself. I am just gaining confidence (that I never had before) with the small things I am going to be doing with my car. Happy to fix things that break, rather than be upset for the misfortune. Right now the radiator went out, so I am ordering a Koyo aluminum one and things like that. Shocks need to be replaced and I am picking up my kyb ones from ups, but I won't install them until I decide on what springs to go with, and if I can make it to Mr. Jeff Lews or not. I am sure I might be able to install those though. How hard can it be?


More power to run all 4 wheels and slower? I kind of pictured it like a person pulling themselves or climbing. FWD would be just your arms. RWD would be just your legs. AWD arms and legs. Know what I mean?

Since FWD the car is pulling itself, RWD it is pushing itself and yeah...
Kwanza26
QUOTE(Random_Stranger @ Feb 15, 2008 - 4:34 PM) [snapback]641770[/snapback]

More power to run all 4 wheels and slower? I kind of pictured it like a person pulling themselves or climbing. FWD would be just your arms. RWD would be just your legs. AWD arms and legs. Know what I mean?

Since FWD the car is pulling itself, RWD it is pushing itself and yeah...

Hehehehehe... terrible analogy. Arms and legs each have their own set of muscles to pull. Wheels do NOT. They share the same muscle (engine) so in effect, you have to split available power to more places than before... not to mention you're also adding weight with the AWD set-up. The ONLY argument for AWD is traction.

As said before... if you can't even find gauge cluster bulbs, which are 194 type bulbs, you're DEFINATELY not going be doing an AWD swap any time soon.
_mikeE
with FWD you only lose about 15-20% power due to the distribution as for AWD i'm not too sure but probably 35% power.
As for your suspension, the most commonly purchased springs are the eibach ones or the tein s-tech's.
On the contrary, one thing that's more vital then even doing the swap itself and budgeting funds to purchase the parts required for the swap is your ability to research. I can't count on how many times i've seen mods and frequent enthusiasts emphasize on that one single point to people.
And i'm not meaning to bring down your confidence or esteem or anything and i'm not saying the swap is impossible, there are a couple people on this site who's done it but they've put in crazy hours doing it and for some, we're still all awaiting to hear a reply to see how it went.
So is it worth it? Maybe, depends on where you stand. How's the mileage on a GT? 30mpg approx depending on how you drive.
How's the mileage on a 3s motor swapped AWD? I'm not too sure because the gas tank is on the whole other side for the st205 rear clip which if you didn't know, you will have to change due to your gas tank being in the way but i'm not sure if the st205 gas tank is larger than ours but one reason why so many people are selling their 3s swapped celica's is becuse they can't keep up with the gas.
But if you determined to do this swap whch is essential to doing any mod then follow up on the stickies and find the threads with people who've done or even further, contact them and hopefully you can meet with them.
Hope the new radiator and new suspension does you well. I'm still saving up to get the Tein SS coilovers but due to my limited time because I plan to attend the Sherbrooke meet in the summer, I might just go down to getting the KYB GR-2's w/ Tein S-tech's.
xs94st
if u have the fundamental knowledge of AWD vehicles, swapping engines, complete rear subframe fabrication, welding, component removal / replacement / fabrication and have a good source for parts, it is definitely possible.

if you don't, then u should start small and work your way up there cuz its a hell of a project. its pretty much starting from scratch.

and the thing is, you cannot half ass any of the project. if you want it to be work right and run like a ST205, you are going to have to put hundreds of hours into making sure that your components are all working like clockwork. unless you know a reputible shop that specializes in these things, it would be a hard task to ask someone from a regular import place to help you out.

dr tweak is on the forums n he is always down for big, horribly tough projects wink.gif he would be the person that you would go to for help / the greater knowledge in regards to engine swapping and custom fabrication.

green mactoy's thread is getting lengthy, but it looks like he has the knowledge and know how in regards to custom fabbing his own stuff. he also got the parts for pretty damn cheap, so he is really able to take advantage of that.

anything is possible when it comes to cars. thats the whole point of modding/customizing/makingitgofaster-itis. you should start small if you wanna swap/learn about engines. if you have little knowledge in regards to swaps, just take your time n learn everything about what you are getting into. anything is possible, if you have the time, money, and heart to do it.

and patience. jesus, that is like the worst part of it all haha
Random_Stranger
Well thanks for all this guys. I envy you for your knowledge, but I know all in good time. Now I did say thank you, and yes I realize I am not anywhere ready for swap or AWD conversion, which has never slipped my mind. But is there any chance someone might be able to answer the rest of my questions regarding other engine swaps who have done them? Not just chastise me for my lack of knowledge. Again, I am very grateful for all of your replies, because you took the time to answer my silly questions in whatever regards it meant to you. To me, it means a lot. Also allows me to take notice as to who is active, who is out there, and who I might be able to befriend on this site (Yeah, getting older it is harder to make new friends). So again, thank you everyone.



Oh yeah, I found the lights/LEDs. OooOooOo! Look out! This guy is going places! laugh.gif
_mikeE
Hey man, that's what we're here for to help ppl out, and don't wry we're all still learning and we all have to start somewhere right? Congratz on the lights. What color LEDS did you get?
I'm planning to get these V-leds from this website that Batman advised. I want to get blue ones, they're nicer than the normal 194 type leds.
Btw, what are you inquiries about motor swaps again? I plan to swap my 5S motor to a 3sgte by next year, or do a 5S-GTE project, i'm still curious upon that project but still need to do a lot of research upon the pro's and con's.
Random_Stranger
QUOTE(_mikeE @ Feb 15, 2008 - 9:30 PM) [snapback]641880[/snapback]

Hey man, that's what we're here for to help ppl out, and don't wry we're all still learning and we all have to start somewhere right? Congratz on the lights. What color LEDS did you get?
I'm planning to get these V-leds from this website that Batman advised. I want to get blue ones, they're nicer than the normal 194 type leds.
Btw, what are you inquiries about motor swaps again? I plan to swap my 5S motor to a 3sgte by next year, or do a 5S-GTE project, i'm still curious upon that project but still need to do a lot of research upon the pro's and con's.



For swaps, i am not sure yet. If I go with power I want to go all out and get something with real potential. I am ordering some red leds for my gauge cluster. I just got my jdm tail lights today and just itching to go home and install them. I have my kyb shocks, and waiting to order the springs, because my radiator is broke with a small crack and on the 25th of Feb, I am ordering a Koyo radiator and installing that. Then I will be driving around again. The next things I am getting within the next three months is rims, jdm head light projectors, springs, spark plugs and find a good gas filter. In the summer I am going to go with exhaust and intake. After early 2009, I will see what I am going to do for more power.
_mikeE
Well, if you turbo your 5S motor you're averaged to get about 240hp with some basic mods i believe.
But expect to pay like 1000 for your parts to turbo the motor, however with that money you can almost get yourself a 3rd gen. 3SGTE motor which comes stock with 255hp or get yourself a 2nd. gen 3sgte motor and swap out the turbine. Those are 13sec motors with basic bolt-on mods and ppl who put more work in it get up to about low 12s/high 11's.
As for the rims, what's your taste because i'm thinking about selling mine. If you want a pic, just PM me--they're silver finish 5 spoke rims--Falcon i believe the name was i'm not sure, came with the car. I'll include it with the Nankang Sport NS-1 tires which still has 50%+ treading left. But yeah let me know.
For the jdm projectors, i still want to get those but they're so damn expensive, but if you get HIDs with them, they'll look amazing!
MaskedMan
Actually parts to turbo the 5s is closer to around $2,000. You'll need your turbo (ofcourse) manifold and DP. Some fort of fuel management, with injectors and fuel pump to go along with it. Intercooler and piping, your already looking close to $1,000 right there and you don't even have gauges, sensors (map and oil pressure), oil pan, hoses, lines, and I know I'm missing another big part.. bah anyways, if your looking for a setup that hits 240whp, its going to be more than $2,000. (doing it right anyways)
_mikeE
Which is why Random_stranger, you should just spend about 1400-2000 and get yourself a 3s motor which is already turbo'd and built with a turbo already so you won't have to go through the trouble and 3s motor has a lot of potential just like what you're looking for.
3sgte 3rd gen is goin for 1300 in Toronto. biggrin.gif 2nd gen. for 850 woot!
MaskedMan
QUOTE(_mikeE @ Feb 15, 2008 - 2:54 PM) [snapback]641909[/snapback]
Which is why Random_stranger, you should just spend about 1400-2000 and get yourself a 3s motor which is already turbo'd and built with a turbo already so you won't have to go through the trouble and 3s motor has a lot of potential just like what you're looking for.
3sgte 3rd gen is goin for 1300 in Toronto. biggrin.gif 2nd gen. for 850 woot!

Those prices are most likely for an engine set. He is definatly going to need a full front clip judging from his ability to locate parts. It would just be so much easier for him. An ST205 front clip will run you about $3,500 (it's worth it). I will assume you want to save money so you'll go ahead and use your S54 transmission instead of buying an E153. Not a bad choice, but judging on you wanting to go with a lot of potential, it might be a good idea to go ahead with the E153 w/ lsd.
Random_Stranger
Yeah, if and when I decide I am capable of this project, I think I would be better off with a front clip
addictions
ok so the tranny in the Gt bolts up to the 3s motor rite? and is that just one wheel drive? b/c i st have now just spends the wheel with less resistance i think is that the same as the Gt tranny? and whats different about the E153 w/ lsd.?
_mikeE
the E153 tranny is from the mr2 turbo which is a much more powerful tranny than our s54 tranny's. Also the gear ratios are different and faster. Plus...it's LSD--if you're gonna be pushing over 300hp, you're gonna probably want to have it to reduce the wheelspin, since it's only FWD and not AWD like the st205 or st185 has which the motor was previously taken from. That is unless you get an aftermarket LSD module insert or if you get lucky and somehow miraculously find a TRD lsd insert for the s54 tranny because they discontinued it.
addictions
QUOTE(_mikeE @ Feb 18, 2008 - 2:10 AM) [snapback]642691[/snapback]

the E153 tranny is from the mr2 turbo which is a much more powerful tranny than our s54 tranny's. Also the gear ratios are different and faster. Plus...it's LSD--if you're gonna be pushing over 300hp, you're gonna probably want to have it to reduce the wheelspin, since it's only FWD and not AWD like the st205 or st185 has which the motor was previously taken from. That is unless you get an aftermarket LSD module insert or if you get lucky and somehow miraculously find a TRD lsd insert for the s54 tranny because they discontinued it.

how hard is it to bolt up the E153 tranny to the GT body witch the swap would be put into? does it bolt up or does it take some custom brackets and if i buy a 3s and want to do the swap i would like to rebuild the motor ya know but is that going to effect how the motor runs after the swap? i mean if you rebuild a motor and put it back in the same car u take it out of its not just going to run rite... how would i go about turning that b/c its the ECU for the 5s or how ever Dr. tweak does that
_mikeE
I believe the E153 tranny is a direct bolt to the 3s motor just like the s54 tranny does. And i would advise you to rebuild atleast the head when you purchase your new 3s motor because common sense--if you're going to sell you motor, you're gonna wanna beat it around before you do. So it would be a smart choice, plus while you're at it i would also advise to purchase w/e harder to install mods you can since the motor is already out of the engine bay such as your new camshafts, port & polish, decarb and clean out the motor, etc.
And ofcourse when you rebuild the motor it's gonna make the motor run better. Also, you can't use your 5s-fe ECU with the 3s motor, you have to use the 3s ecu and flywheel and clutch, but i'll assume the clutch already in the e153 tranny is compatible.
*edit* you also have to use a st205 gauge cluster as well, your GT one won't work with it.
addictions
QUOTE(_mikeE @ Feb 19, 2008 - 12:34 AM) [snapback]643074[/snapback]

I believe the E153 tranny is a direct bolt to the 3s motor just like the s54 tranny does. And i would advise you to rebuild atleast the head when you purchase your new 3s motor because common sense--if you're going to sell you motor, you're gonna wanna beat it around before you do. So it would be a smart choice, plus while you're at it i would also advise to purchase w/e harder to install mods you can since the motor is already out of the engine bay such as your new camshafts, port & polish, decarb and clean out the motor, etc.
And ofcourse when you rebuild the motor it's gonna make the motor run better. Also, you can't use your 5s-fe ECU with the 3s motor, you have to use the 3s ecu and flywheel and clutch, but i'll assume the clutch already in the e153 tranny is compatible.
*edit* you also have to use a st205 gauge cluster as well, your GT one won't work with it.

ic ic so does the E153 tranny bolt up to the GT frame? and how do you go about tuning the ECU? can u just plug it into a laptop and buy a programmer some were?
_mikeE
I believe the E153 tranny should bolt right up to the GT frame but don't count on my advice on that one. I'm not too sure myself, you might have to do a small mod like replacing a shift link or cable or something but not sure. Hope someone else with more expertise can answer that question for me.
And what do you mean by tuning the ECU? I don't believe you can flash the ECU for our ecu's are not EEPROM like honda's ecu's are. However, you can get the speed limit defencer so if you get the 3s motor, you're allowed to go over the 120mph mark, and just get yourself a s-afc or NEO to tune the a/f ratios and such.
lagos
QUOTE(addictions @ Feb 19, 2008 - 7:05 PM) [snapback]643373[/snapback]

QUOTE(_mikeE @ Feb 19, 2008 - 12:34 AM) [snapback]643074[/snapback]

I believe the E153 tranny is a direct bolt to the 3s motor just like the s54 tranny does. And i would advise you to rebuild atleast the head when you purchase your new 3s motor because common sense--if you're going to sell you motor, you're gonna wanna beat it around before you do. So it would be a smart choice, plus while you're at it i would also advise to purchase w/e harder to install mods you can since the motor is already out of the engine bay such as your new camshafts, port & polish, decarb and clean out the motor, etc.
And ofcourse when you rebuild the motor it's gonna make the motor run better. Also, you can't use your 5s-fe ECU with the 3s motor, you have to use the 3s ecu and flywheel and clutch, but i'll assume the clutch already in the e153 tranny is compatible.
*edit* you also have to use a st205 gauge cluster as well, your GT one won't work with it.

ic ic so does the E153 tranny bolt up to the GT frame? and how do you go about tuning the ECU? can u just plug it into a laptop and buy a programmer some were?


Do a search for "e153", there are many topics about this.
Yes, that trans does bolt up to the motor, but you need to buy new motor mounts, shifter cables and make custom axles. If you choose that path, make sure you do ALL of your research, because a lot of people who didnt, end with axle or shifting issues.

The 3sgte runs off the 3sgte ecu. You swap that out with your existing ecu.
There is no need to tune anything. Its a factory turbo motor, already tuned by toyota.
_mikeE
Jee, i haven't really done much research upon the E153 tranny swap because i plan on getting that tranny next year when i get the 3sgte motor but I didn't know you had to make custom axles, how do you go about doing that? that'll probably cost a bit right?
I'm interested in comparing the gear ratios between the two tranny's.
Also guys, I would trust in lago's advice, he's practically a mechanic himself! biggrin.gif
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