So i am going to swap out my 5sfe and put in a 3 sgte, but i cant really find awhole lot of difference in 2nd and 3rd gen 3's... So...

Which engine would be a better building block to start from a 2nd gen or a 3rd gen?

3rd gen seems like no brainer but just thought i'd ask. I plan on doing alot of engine work on it while its out of my car, port polish, over boring, new pistons, cams, the works:)

Can you trust ebay sellers for this stuff?
Because there are alot of motors on ebay for like $1,500

Would a motor from a MR2 or Caldina work also? They say its the same 3sgte, but i dont know...

Thanks for helping me understand, if i missed a forum where all this is covered before please re-direct me

I was told that the 3rd gen had a better intake manifold(I belive this was the part) and of course it has a smidgeon more hp than the 2nd gen..... so if you got it, i'd go with a 3rd in decent condition........... Not sure bout the ebay thing, but if I won't buy brakes off of ebay, I'd say that, personally, I wouldn't go with the engines there either........ MR2 will work, not sure bout the Caldina, but I assume yes cause its about the motor more than the car that it came out of usually

Ya i agree with the ebay thing... it just sounds to good to be true... but when they have 3sgte for 1500 its kinda hard to ignore it...

I was pretyy much thinking the exact same things you were, just wanting some re assurance, thanks

no prob..... i mean if you plan on tearing it all apart and truly "rebuilding" it, I don't see a prob with the ebay ones, but i would bet that you'd run into a lot more problems to fix

Could you just give a example, most of them seem legit and that they import them from JDM...
IM not trying to defend them or nothing like that... but i will probablly replace everything expect the block itself... and im keeping my 5sfe tranny since it only has 85,000 on it right now:)

If you're planning on replacing pretty much everything except the block(this is what i was referring to as truly rebuilding, sometimes people use that word too liberally) I'd say try it out, but make sure you have a some type of warranty on the engine and do some research on the seller/company so that way if you end up with a cracked block at your door you know who to chew out and how to get a hold of em.

true story, ya i know a engine shop who should be mmore than able to handle the rebuild, now i just need to find a shop to actually switch the motors:?

You need an engine set. Don't buy some ebay long block. The cost of a rebuild is
going to run more than a complete clip.(a good one) If you are serious about swapping you need to read
for a couple months. There is a very nice clip on e-bay right now for 4500 with fenders hood bumper
brakes you could sell some parts of and get a bunch of money back from your purchase. I am waiting for a year maybe 2 thinking the prices of a 3rd gen swap are going to drop. I know you are new and its all very exciting, take some time to read the info available here. (there is a ton of it) Also look into the 5sfte
option, very dependable great power an reasonably inexpensive compared to a 3sgte swap. I drove one last fall and it gave me wood.

I second what Randy (97lestyousay) said. You really have to take your time and do a TON of research before a swap if you don't want to make your life a living hell.

Before getting too anxious about throwing yourself into a swap, do yourself a huge favor and aim for the following first -

1.) Have a reliable beater/daily driver. It will take you longer than you expect to swap, ALWAYS.

2.) Take your time finding the cleanest, most complete engine set or front clip you can find. It needs to be VERY complete, or you will be stuck finding little parts for a long time. Do not settle for anything less than perfect shape, and don't always base your engine purchase on a great price. Focus on quality and reputation of the seller....I would reccomend a shop like JARCO in Georgia, they will sell you a great motor without any doubts.

3.) What generation 3SGTE? You make the choice. There is a ton of information on the Internet all about the differences between each generation 3SGTE, the biggest difference being parts availability for non-USDM market motors. Each one has its own benefits and downfalls, and you have to do plenty of research to know which one will best suit your needs.

4.) Do your own work!!
I can't stress how important it is to be aware of everything you've done to your car by turning the wrenches yourself. If you break down along the road and you have no idea how it all went together, you'll be stuck and clueless...not to mention poor from paying for alot of towing and hack mechanics.

Most mechanics will have NO CLUE what to do to swap a 3SGTE into your Celica, or properly maintain it. Its not what they do. Just think....a serious lack of understanding on their part could sacrafice your whole investment!!




That being said, I love my JDM 3rd gen ST205. Its a really powerful setup when totally stock with a few BPU's. The factory setup is perfect for making reliable moderate power figures, and it has some great features that made me buy one -

- 255hp, totally stock.
- No AFM!
- 2-piece oil pan with relocated oil filter for easier maintainence. Also has plugs in place for oil temp and pressure gauges.
- Factory water to air intercooler to prevent dealing with FMIC plumbing.
- Factory relief valve.
- Stronger and more capable turbocharger.
- Improved intake manifold with larger runners.
- Factory oil catch can, as well as an added PCV valve.
- Larger 540cc injectors.
- Relocated FPR for cleaner and more direct positioning.
- MLS headgasket.
- Simplified water neck with plug for a water temp gauge, simplified cold start function.
- No EGR, very simple vacuum routing.
- More aggressive camshaft profile.


The 2nd generation 3SGTE is also a great motor though. Its got great power in stock form, and also has some large benefits that are worth considering.

- 225hp stock in JDM versions.
- Typically less expensive and more abundant to obtain, compared to later generations.
- USDM availability of almost all parts...a HUGE plus.
- Great selection of aftermarket parts and support.
- Very complete service manuals available.
- More common, and easier to get advice and support from other members on this and other forums.


The 4th generation 3SGTE was found in the Toyota Caldina. It is the newest of the 3SGTE family, however it has very scarce availability of parts and are going to be very difficult to get parts for. It has only slightly more power, and uses a one-piece turbo and manifold design as well as a side entry intake manifold.

I really can't think of any benefits of this motor....other than rare factor, maybe.




So the choice is up to you. Whatever you choose to do, just take your time and do a TON of research....and by a ton I mean spend months and months absorbed in reading build-ups and how-to's, and planning step by step what you are going to need to do. It also doesn't hurt to turn some wrenches alongside somebody who really knows what they are doing (and not somebody who thinks they know everything )....getting your hands dirty is the best way to learn.


Best of luck.




-Corey

5SFTE is a great option also, definately worth serious consideration. There are lots of guys here running all sorts of setups, and there is alot of information here to do it and do it well....and its only begun to see what its capable of doing.

I also drove a 5SFTE and i concur that it was wood-worthy. Its definately a great bang for the buck option since the 5SFE is an absolute tank, and takes to boost quite well.



-Corey

to deal with the whole ebay thing i have been doing research alot of importer around the country use ebay to sell their engines they mark up the price alittle so look for a number or a web site but i am buying a front cut from a st185 that is a 2nd gen gt4 for 2100 with shipping i am getting everything form the dash to the front bumper encluding the hood if you are building the block from ground up you may be interested in a stroker kit it strokes it the engine to a 2.2lt i found a kit for 2500 dollars it includes a crank rods pistons and piston rings it pushes 300hp min
it just depends on how deep your back pocket is

Wow, thank you corey, great info, thanks everyone

I found a shop who should be able to handle things(thanks griff girl) so i am calling them about everything aas soon as i get done with this reply, i'll post on it later:)

I am going to see how much they are going to charge to do a 3s swap and/or turbo my 5sfe... So we will see...

Thanks for all the great hellp and info you guys