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Hafkai
Hi, after over a year of gathering parts my Celica finally is in the garage and gets her custom header, exhaust and some other stuff.
Yesterday we fitted the big Evo9 intercooler, i had to get the ST205 crash bar because the stock one is to tight, intercooler piping was done too and i'm very happy with it. I will use the stock ST205 air filter box, since there is not much space between the filter box and the engine, the IC piping is a little bit tricky but it looks like we found a good route.









The header will be done in the next days.



Short list of parts i'm using:
- Garrett T25 Turbo from a CA18DET
- Mitsubishi EVO 9 Intercooler
- E-manage Ultimate
- Innovate LC-1 Wideband
- ST202 3S-GE Injectors (372ccm)
- ST205 Fuel Pump
- Bosch Blow-Off from a Audi S3
- Custom Header and 3" Exhaust
- dozens of other small parts wink.gif
Pollux
Nicht schlecht, Herr Specht
(Not bad Mr. Woodpecker woot.gif )

Has it been on the dyno yet?
What's the power output?
Why didn't you just do a 3s-ge or 3s-gte swap?

Du bist der mit den Ultraleggeras, der fter mal auf dem Eurospeedway unterwegs ist, stimmts?
(Not relevant to US-habitants... i apologize for writing german)
hurley97
Holy hell!!! Is that massive intercooler really necessary on a 7A?? How much boost are you planning to run?
malpaso
amazing job...
RickJamesBish
Sieht gut aus. Wie viel kW sind in planung?
Hafkai
QUOTE (Pollux @ Dec 27, 2008 - 1:24 PM) *
Why didn't you just do a 3s-ge or 3s-gte swap?

Du bist der mit den Ultraleggeras, der fter mal auf dem Eurospeedway unterwegs ist, stimmts?
(Not relevant to US-habitants... i apologize for writing german)


Joa der bin ich smile.gif
I'm not a big fan of the 3S-GE(except BEAMS biggrin.gif) and i dont want to swap the whole engine. The 3S-GTE is without a doubt the better base for power but i'm not looking for that much and 7A-FTEs are very rare in germany..

QUOTE (hurley97 @ Dec 27, 2008 - 10:58 PM) *
Holy hell!!! Is that massive intercooler really necessary on a 7A?? How much boost are you planning to run?


Absolutely not biggrin.gif, for some fun on the streets a much smaller intercooler would be enough, but i will use the car for trackdays and ~15min full throttle ask for something that is able to take the heat and release it fast enough, i think the Evo intercooler is a good choice for this job.
I don't plan to run much boost, 8 or max. 10psi on the track, the 7A may take more in daily driving with only short boost attacks.. but a racetrack is something different.
hurley97
I have a small water to air that sits in the bay and it is awesome. But I also daily drive the car, I don't race it on the track. Although I'd have to say it would probably do better in longer and harder running conditions like highway or track use rather than around town or at slower speeds, reason being the increased amount/cooler air getting to the heat exchanger mounted in front. Water has a better cooling ability than air which is subject to the outside temperature. The w2a itself under the hood is ice cold after a highway run in the summer.
lagos
most efficient mounting of an intercooler to date. nice job.
njccmd2002
that would block the air to the radiator, yes?
enderswift
x2, wont the trackday benefits of the intercooler be offset by the fact that now your engine will be running alot warmer? i imagine the cooler air charge wont matter thing when the cylinders are surrounded by a piping hot water jacket 0.o
Batman722
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Dec 28, 2008 - 7:05 PM) *
that would block the air to the radiator, yes?

not as much as your AC condenser does.

QUOTE (enderswift @ Dec 28, 2008 - 8:45 PM) *
x2, wont the trackday benefits of the intercooler be offset by the fact that now your engine will be running alot warmer? i imagine the cooler air charge wont matter thing when the cylinders are surrounded by a piping hot water jacket 0.o

um, no.
First, your AC condesor blocks air flow to the radiator more than anything. It's bolted directly in front of your radiator and are your cylinders surrounded by a piping hot water jacket ? nope.
Second, both the condensor and that IC have fins (just like a radiator) and air passes through them, hence cooling the coolant or air you have running through it. With his IC there is plenty of room for air to get through and around it to cool everything just fine.
CelicaST_CALI
Plus he has fans...



great 7afte build so far!!!Isnt 3" exhaust a lil big for a 7afte?
enderswift
haha you're right, completely forgot about the condenser rolleyes.gif
dont the cooling passages run between the cylinders? maybe waterjacket isnt the right term... ill check out what my haynes manual has to say


either way back on topic, nice setup thumbsup.gif
Hafkai
Header is completed and the rest of the exhaust will be done this week.









enderswift
thats some CLEAN exhaust work there
CelicaST_CALI
awwwww a cat frown.gif wheres the fun in that?
SpoonR530
Gotta love that German Engineering biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Batman722
QUOTE (Hafkai @ Jan 4, 2009 - 9:05 AM) *

do you plan on not using the fans anymore ? it looks like it's going to be a tight fit....
I would of suggested putting them or at least one on the opposite side of the radiator but with that IC and the big horn there, might not be much room there either.

also, get a new radiator. Yours looks about 14 years old and with the excessive heat from that set-up you'll kill that one sooer than you think.
Hafkai
I'll try to fit the stock fan on the other side of the radiator, if that doesn't work i'll get one or two Spal fans. They're much thinner, should fit without any problems.
The hot side of the turbo will get a heat shield, the header maybe too but i'm not shure about that.
malpaso
QUOTE (Hafkai @ Jan 5, 2009 - 11:19 AM) *
I'll try to fit the stock fan on the other side of the radiator, if that doesn't work i'll get one or two Spal fans. They're much thinner, should fit without any problems.
The hot side of the turbo will get a heat shield, the header maybe too but i'm not shure about that.


It will work for sure wink.gif

Hafkai
Got new pics, there are still some things to do but the engine should run this weekend.









Sebby
Grat job mate,keep up the good work!!
playr158
Nice work, looks like your project is coming along very clean.
Hafkai
More pics smile.gif









normality78
i like the way how you fabricate the downpipe housing. Looks great...
Hafkai
IT'S ALIVE!! biggrin.gif

Today we finaly got everything done what's needed to let the engine run. After 10 minutes wondering why my E-manage and the starter don't work, my friend simply asked me "immobilizer??"... unbelievable how fast you can forget something like that laugh.gif
The engine runs a bit rich at idle and closed loop didn't worked, maybe a problem with the stock lambda probe. Tomorrow we put the car on the dyno and i try to set up the E-manage so that the car will run not too bad with boost, fine tuning will follow the next weeks.

Short video

and some pics




Hafkai
Dyno video smile.gif
First run with some engine knock because of too advanced ignition timing making the engine stutter above 5000rpm, i retarded the timing about 2-3 in the next runs.

normality78
nice figure...!! cant wait to see full dyno plot.
normality78
im watching the video but i also notice some knocking sound behind. Is that the engine knock sound you're refering to? Coz i can hear it even on low rpm and gradually increasing as ur rev up
Hafkai
The loud knocking sounds are from the dyno. The actual engine knocking isn't audible but you can hear that the engine doesn't rev freely in high rpm. Too bad i don't have a video from the other runs.
normality78
alright. that's scared me of the loudness. If were at that level, very soon will...... hehehe
Hafkai
I finally got the car back and it runs great, the exhaust is relatively quiet but sounds wonderful. The E-manage works great but i have to do some settings till ignition and injection are perfect.. still get some engine knock but not as bad as with the old spark plugs. I just did a short test drive on the Autobahn smile.gif i never was that fast on >110mph and the car still pulls very hard, but my clutch decided to die and started to slip real bad.... i'll order a Exedy Stage 2..
short video of 2. - 3. gear, the clutch gripped but the wheels are spinning in 2. gear Link
normality78
keep it coming.....
eggman40
man that is a GREAT install, i love how clean you installed everything. Especially with the small space your working with.

I would however try and maybe wrap the manifold and the first 2ft of the charge pipe with some heat wrap. that should help a little in keeping the heat from spreading in the engine bay, and more imporatantly the radiator. Ive never seen an exhaust pipe so close to the radiator, Id be a bit a concerned about the radiator breaking at a track day.

Either way, great job biggrin.gif
WH95TE
everything looks great. good job
Hafkai
I went to the track yesterday and the engine seems to like the boost wink.gif, no bigger problems at all, the oil temp was always below 120C (~250F) and exhaust gas temp peaked at 930C (1700F) @ 6200rpm. The water got a little bit hotter than usual but not too much.
The stock clutch is still in an holds the boost without problems... i'm a little bit astonished about this.

I got a video of the fastest lap.. cam position sucks but i love the engine sound wink.gif Link
I was able to drop the lap times from 2:30 to 2:21 and this with bad tires...
presure2
QUOTE (Hafkai @ Apr 20, 2009 - 4:37 AM) *
I went to the track yesterday and the engine seems to like the boost wink.gif, no bigger problems at all, the oil temp was always below 120C (~250F) and exhaust gas temp peaked at 930C (1700F) @ 6200rpm. The water got a little bit hotter than usual but not too much.
The stock clutch is still in an holds the boost without problems... i'm a little bit astonished about this.

I got a video of the fastest lap.. cam position sucks but i love the engine sound wink.gif Link
I was able to drop the lap times from 2:30 to 2:21 and this with bad tires...

1700*F is VERY hot.
be carefull with temps that high, your dangerously close to melting somthing. wink.gif
Hafkai
Most of the time the egt is between 1300-1600F but it can rise to 1650-1700 on the long straight..
It usualy peaks at 1630F ... 1690F was the highest i've seen so far.
Hafkai
After about 7k miles the engine still runs great, i did a compression test some weeks ago with ~190psi on all cylinders. The 7A really can take some abuse.. over 200 miles or 15 turns at the circuit without any problems, even at over 90F ambient temperature.
The engine gets 10psi boost at all day driving and 7-9psi at the track, depending on the weather thanks to boost creep at low temps....
Oil consumption is a little bit high with almost 1L/1000km... but it could be worse wink.gif
The fuel consumption is not bad with ~27 mpg overall and 20 mpg at the circuit.

I got a short video from the Autobahn, testing 100-200 km/h acceleration at 10psi Youtube
SwissFerdi
Awesome man, awesome...this thread is inspiration for me. biggrin.gif

What have you done to the internals? Very sorry, I don't remember from the first time reading.
Hafkai
QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Nov 9, 2009 - 4:35 PM) *
What have you done to the internals? Very sorry, I don't remember from the first time reading.

The engine is completely stock, thats why i stop at 10psi.
SwissFerdi
Interesting. OOBE said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. No issues whatsoever though?
Hafkai
No issues at all, it depends on the injection and especially the ignition tuning how much a 7A will handle without braking something. I tuned my 7A to run with an afr of 11,5:1 at full boost and retarded the timing a lot. It's absolutely important to watch engine knock while tuning.
8 psi is pretty safe on a good tuned 7A, 10 psi is the max i would give a stock engine over a longer period of time, maybe 12-13 psi with an water injection.
If you want to go higher you have to lower the compression and get some stronger internals...
OOBE
QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Nov 9, 2009 - 2:21 PM) *
Interesting. OOBE said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. No issues whatsoever though?

WTF? I NEVER said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. I've had mine to 15 PSI. laugh.gif

The "mechanical engineer" guy was the one that said that. I was the one that broke that myth here years ago about the 7A-FE not being able to handle more than 7 PSI.
SwissFerdi
QUOTE (Hafkai @ Nov 9, 2009 - 3:55 PM) *
No issues at all, it depends on the injection and especially the ignition tuning how much a 7A will handle without braking something. I tuned my 7A to run with an afr of 11,5:1 at full boost and retarded the timing a lot. It's absolutely important to watch engine knock while tuning.
8 psi is pretty safe on a good tuned 7A, 10 psi is the max i would give a stock engine over a longer period of time, maybe 12-13 psi with an water injection.
If you want to go higher you have to lower the compression and get some stronger internals...


I do know stronger internals are eventually necessary, I just thought that point was past 8 PSI.

QUOTE (OOBE @ Nov 9, 2009 - 4:21 PM) *
WTF? I NEVER said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. I've had mine to 15 PSI. laugh.gif

The "mechanical engineer" guy was the one that said that. I was the one that broke that myth here years ago about the 7A-FE not being able to handle more than 7 PSI.


OOBE, you lied to me! wink.gif Okay, good then. What I'm really looking for is not necessarily a max, but a good point for a DD. What do you run daily?

So both of you guys, push the hell out of your engines so Ferdi has plenty of study material!
Hanyo
QUOTE (Hafkai @ Nov 9, 2009 - 6:25 AM) *
After about 7k miles the engine still runs great, i did a compression test some weeks ago with ~190psi on all cylinders. The 7A really can take some abuse.. over 200 miles or 15 turns at the circuit without any problems, even at over 90F ambient temperature.
The engine gets 10psi boost at all day driving and 7-9psi at the track, depending on the weather thanks to boost creep at low temps....
Oil consumption is a little bit high with almost 1L/1000km... but it could be worse wink.gif
The fuel consumption is not bad with ~27 mpg overall and 20 mpg at the circuit.

I got a short video from the Autobahn, testing 100-200 km/h acceleration at 10psi Youtube



awesome look at that odometer move!
OOBE
Ferdi,

With good tuning, 10 PSI on a good size turbo is nothing for this engine. You can run it daily. Even with the piston I hurt in the dyno, I was still boosting 15 PSI daily until the car overheated because of a failing radiator fan last week. The broken piston never got more hurt than what it was when I overboosted 18 PSI at the dyno, which is when it broke. The dyno read 222 WHP when the piston broke and I wasn't even on WOT. Who knows if the engine saw over 250 horses. The dyno read that, but the engine might've made way more. tongue.gif That's asking a lot. These are replacement pistons, so they might be weaker than Toyota pistons.

Remember that different turbos give you different power per pound of boost, and the weather conditions affect power A LOT, which is a very important fact that most people forget or fail to realize. In my case, just one PSI in the lower boost range on my turbo counts for ten wheel horsepower according to the dyno, and that's on 85 degree weather at night with a lot of humidity. I might get more on a cool day, which never happens in this island. I also have a bigger turbo, custom intake manifold and bigger throttle body...and also a more efficient intercooler with a horrible two PSI pressure drop. These items were not installed last time I dynoed, so I cannot compare the numbers. Everything changed. Who knows how much these items helped the engine or took away. I couldn't baseline unfortunately.

At 15 PSI, I'm probably getting a bit more than ten wheel horsepower per pound of boost, since the turbo is in its sweet spot on higher boost. Taking this into consideration and given the acceleration rate and how the car feels, if I follow that 10 WHP/PSI ratio, who knows if I'm probably at 250 WHP as of now...ignoring that the head is warped and that the piston is hurt. laugh.gif It's very possible, since the AFR stayed religiously the same from 7 PSI to 18 PSI and the power was being made consistently. biggrin.gif

If it wouldn't have overboosted, it wouldn't have broke a piston and I ASSUME I would be around that power level, give or take. A smaller turbo will give you less obviously. So after my experience, I can say that with a good tune, you can boost a bitty more than 200 WHP daily with no problems. smile.gif
SwissFerdi
QUOTE (OOBE @ Nov 9, 2009 - 5:52 PM) *
With good tuning, 10 PSI on a good size turbo is nothing for this engine. You can run it daily. Even with the piston I hurt in the dyno, I was still boosting 15 PSI daily until the car overheated because of a failing radiator fan last week. The broken piston never got more hurt than what it was when I overboosted 18 PSI at the dyno, which is when it broke...about 230 WHP...which yields about 250 or more to the engine sicne this is an auto tranny. That's asking a lot. These are replacement pistons, so they might be weaker than Toyota pistons.

Remember that different turbos give you different power per pound of boost, and the weather condiions affect power A LOT...something that most people forget or fail to realize. In my case, just one PSI on my turbo counts for ten wheel horsepower, and that's on 85 degree weather at night with a lot of humidity. I might get more on a cool day. A smaller turbo will give you less power per pound of boost. So after my experience, I can say that with a good tune, you can boost a bitty more than 200 WHP daily with no problems.


That's great to hear. 200 WHP would be PLENTY for me, especially coming from...80ish WHP? laugh.gif Realistically, I'd like to say I'll be able to work on the engine once I start this turbo install...but more than likely, I'll still need to learn. Simplistically, I'd like to bolt the stuff on and get it tuned to a reliable standpoint for DD where I won't have any problems. I do want my money's worth in power right away, obviously.
OOBE
Well, the most important thing is to find a good tuner, and either use an e-Manage, or an AEM FIC, or better yet, a stand-alone EMS, because you NEED to be able to control timing if you want the engine to last. I've broken a piston three times in six years. The first two times were because of detonation, not boost level or leaning out. This engine advances timing a boatload when accelerating. You will not believe it. I wish I would've recorded when my tuner took timing readings with a very expensive digital timing light. It was unreal and we were surprised that the engine lasted through all that abuse with such advanced timing throughout these years. By the way, I just sold my e-Manage last week. It worked awesome, but I need more control of the engine because I'm aiming for good numbers now since I'm going with forged internals. biggrin.gif
SwissFerdi
I'd love to find somebody local that knew their way around a 7A-FE, or at least a turbo'd version of a Japanese 4-banger...my mechanic might have a hookup though, or know himself actually. I imagine those systems are pretty expensive? Well worth it though, obviously.

So basically, if the timing's off, the spark won't go off relative to the correct piston position and it'll just run like crap?
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