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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Engine/Transmission/Maintenance
babi_boi
i am not completly new to imports but i am new to celicas. right now my car is stock exept for a cold air intake. on other cars the first thing i did was upgrade the distributor, plugs, wires, injectors.etc so my question is what do i do first, where do i start
bccentaur3
What upgrade dizzy and injectors? What size injectors are you running? Are you just running rich with nothing to control the added fuel with?

What kind of power goals are you looking to reach?
What year celica do you have? Since you acquired a some what older car, I would look into doing maintenance before upgrading anything.
babi_boi
right now all is stock exept intake, car is running good but it cant compete in the 1/4 mile. so the power goal is just to b able to run in the 1/4 and actually have a 1/2 way decent time.(somewhere around 10-12 sec in a 1/4 when the car is done)
it is a 94 and the maintenance seems to b ok but the sparkplug wires are tiny so when i do the tune up i dont really want to put the same tiny stock wires on, do i?
and if i get bigger wires how big can i go with out going to big, then with bigger wires am i going to have to get a better distributor or injectors?
bccentaur3
This aint a Honda buddy. Use ONLY toyota wires. They are proven to handle power. I've had some issues where when I boosted my 5s the ignition would cut on me. Stick with Toyota wires. Plugs go with ngk. If you are looking for power, I say boost it or swap a 3s but you still won't hit 10-12 seconds in the quarter mile.

The dizzy, I don't think theres an upgrade out there. Stick with the stock one.

Header intake and exhaust won't do much for you. Only way to go is Forced Induction.
babi_boi
so the stock wires are the best thing for this car? and boosting it would probably b better than trying to go all motor for the 1/4. if so what type of turbo is better (t3?) and any suggestions on where to get a good one
would u suggest switching to fully synthetic oil or is that not good for these cars
and what is ur opinion on a good time for this car in the 1/4
bccentaur3
IIRC a 3s swapped celica stock will run low 14's. Not sure. I HAD a 2nd swapped 6th gen with a e153 lsd trans and never ran the quarter mile. I regret it. But o well I've moved on to another project.

Yes stock toyota wires are best. Turbo, it seems as if people upgrade to the T3/T4 turbo or the GT28/30/35 series turbo. Its because the stock ct26 Will poop out on you. If you are serious about a track car, do some home work my friend. Check out the Forced Induction Thread.
babi_boi
thanks for the info, i will do some homework and look into the stuff u said, i'll keep u posted
what about the oil? any suggestions on switching to fully synthetic
blu94gt
QUOTE (babi_boi @ Feb 10, 2009 - 11:16 PM) *
thanks for the info, i will do some homework and look into the stuff u said, i'll keep u posted
what about the oil? any suggestions on switching to fully synthetic


Oil isn't too big of a deal on our cars, I'm using full synthetic right now and not noticing any difference from the cheap Valvoline oil I used before other than being slightly cleaner, definitely wasn't worth like 4 times the cost. I'm going to try the Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic next, it's cheap and seems to be working well in my Maxima.

I think as long as you use a good filter like Wix and a name brand oil (none of the O'reilly's special or whatever) then you'll be just fine.

Oh and what injectors are you using? The cars tend to run rich already, bigger injectors would just be dumping un-needed fuel into the cylinders.
babi_boi
i am not sure what size the injectors are, they are stock the same ones that came with the car in 94
but thanks for the oil info. do u have any other tips or suggestions that would help the motor perform better
sorry i need all the help i can get dont know much about celicas yet
bccentaur3
send your camshafts out to webcams and get the 294 regrind. 20+ hp gain.
trdproven
there are also DENSO iridium plugs and Magnecor 8.5mm wires which I have.
babi_boi
so where would i get these kind of wires, do i have to order them on line or can i just get them at a speed shop. also if i do these plugs and wires do i have to up grade anything else to get it to perform right. (like the distributor or change the fuel flow or anything) or will it perform the way it is suppost to with out changing anything else
babi_boi
so i looked into getting the magnecor 8.5 mm wires and i found some for $189, just woundering if that was a good price.
also checked into getting some DENSO iridium plugs as well just woundering if anyone had any suggestions on what ones to get the power, the long life, or the racing ones,
now i will be racing, but i will also be driving this car on a daily bases, so not quite sure if the racing plugs will be ok for daily driving, or if they will be to much
if anybody has any suggestions please tell, i need all the help i can get
soulshadow
From my experience, stock cars don't have much of a gain in expensive wires and plugs. Save yourself some money and just buy something that works at your local autoparts dealer. Now if your willing to dish out $200 for some wires that looks good in is colored while some other cheaper Generic brand that works just as well and is black then by all means go for it. wink.gif

As far as oil goes, if the car has over 100X miles and is leaking on the bottom, just use something that works it doesn't have to be full syn but never use those cheapo oils. Your car wont be flying any day soon.
babi_boi
so if plugs and wires are not what u start with, then what should i start with
keep in mind, i am trying to go all motor for now
Sinyk
From what I'm reading, you are expecting to see gains from "all motor" stuff. If you are expecting this to work like a Honda with bolt on performance mods, you are gravely mistaken. Intakes, headers, exhaust, wires, spark plugs... Don't expect more than maybe 5hp gain in the end. If you want to beef up the motor internals, like pistons, cams, injectors, etc, you will see some gains, as mentioned before with the cam regrind, but nothing mind blowing.

You said you had a 94. A 94 what, ST? GT? GT4???

If your goal is power, do your research and start looking at a turbo or a swap (3s or V6). That's really the only way you are going to get anything significant.
soulshadow
If you just got your car I would suggest you to drive it for a while as it is and see if you really want to put any money into your car. If anything I would just make it look a little nicer, with rims and supension work. As far as the engine goes, a turbo is the only real gain you will see. Beyond that you end up swapping in engines which cost tons of money. If your looking to spend that much you might as well just find somone with a 6gc swapped and buy there car. Which could save you tons of time and money especially if you don't have the equipment to do the swap or know-how.

Racing and daily does not mix. Eventually the car needs fixing and sometimes it won't be reliable. If anything have yourself a reliable car on the side and racing as a project. Don't make your daily a project unless you plan to be stranded somewhere, or find that its not working right when you really need it. I've Learned from my experience.
babi_boi
QUOTE (Sinyk @ Feb 24, 2009 - 11:20 AM) *
From what I'm reading, you are expecting to see gains from "all motor" stuff. If you are expecting this to work like a Honda with bolt on performance mods, you are gravely mistaken. Intakes, headers, exhaust, wires, spark plugs... Don't expect more than maybe 5hp gain in the end. If you want to beef up the motor internals, like pistons, cams, injectors, etc, you will see some gains, as mentioned before with the cam regrind, but nothing mind blowing.

You said you had a 94. A 94 what, ST? GT? GT4???

If your goal is power, do your research and start looking at a turbo or a swap (3s or V6). That's really the only way you are going to get anything significant.



it is a 94 gt
babi_boi
QUOTE (soulshadow @ Feb 24, 2009 - 12:10 PM) *
If you just got your car I would suggest you to drive it for a while as it is and see if you really want to put any money into your car. If anything I would just make it look a little nicer, with rims and supension work. As far as the engine goes, a turbo is the only real gain you will see. Beyond that you end up swapping in engines which cost tons of money. If your looking to spend that much you might as well just find somone with a 6gc swapped and buy there car. Which could save you tons of time and money especially if you don't have the equipment to do the swap or know-how.

Racing and daily does not mix. Eventually the car needs fixing and sometimes it won't be reliable. If anything have yourself a reliable car on the side and racing as a project. Don't make your daily a project unless you plan to be stranded somewhere, or find that its not working right when you really need it. I've Learned from my experience.



ok thanks for the info i think i am just going to check into getting a turbo, cuz the way it sounds this is not the car for all motor.
this car can be just for racing if it will be worth it in the end. i have other cars i can drive for the daily driving. i just like driving this one thats all
but i guess i can just drive the others if this car has the right potential for being anything good in the racing world
st18
look up the vemon 400.
delusionz
Sounds like you want to spend $1000 to get your car from 17 seconds to 16.5 seconds.
babi_boi
QUOTE (delusionz @ Feb 28, 2009 - 9:04 PM) *
Sounds like you want to spend $1000 to get your car from 17 seconds to 16.5 seconds.


are you saying it would go from 17 to 16.5 all motor or wit the turbo
cuz if it will only gain .5 wit a turbo then might as well leave it stock and go for visuals
delusionz
I'm talking all motor, you made no mention of turbo. Turbo will put you into the 14 second bracket.
babi_boi
QUOTE (st18 @ Feb 28, 2009 - 8:23 PM) *
look up the vemon 400.


so i did a little research and found a venom 400 at "auto anything" on tne net, by the sounds of things it is exactly what i am looking for to start out with
price isn't bad and seems to help out alot, also seems to be easy to install
thanks for the help i think i will get one and see if it is as good as it sounds
babi_boi
QUOTE (delusionz @ Mar 1, 2009 - 9:52 PM) *
I'm talking all motor, you made no mention of turbo. Turbo will put you into the 14 second bracket.


at first i wanted to go all motor but like u said alot of money and very little gain so then i thought of a turbo, a couple other ppl suggested it
but now i think i am going to start wit the venom 400 and see where that puts me, it sounds good so i think i will give it a try
delusionz
Hmm it sounds gimmicky.

All good in theory, the one thing I have in mind is that it could probably do with a wideband ego sensor input just because the stock ego sensors don't function with high gas flow (ie, wide open throttle operation.)

I'd say go for it though but only for my own curiousity but I do believe that you can't go past a standalone engine computer and professional tuning. Either way it still wont be anything like a turbo but you will knock off a good part of a second from your quarter.

Have you done CAI? A true ram air style CAI will also give you a gain like this.
babi_boi
QUOTE (delusionz @ Mar 1, 2009 - 10:14 PM) *
Hmm it sounds gimmicky.

All good in theory, the one thing I have in mind is that it could probably do with a wideband ego sensor input just because the stock ego sensors don't function with high gas flow (ie, wide open throttle operation.)

I'd say go for it though but only for my own curiousity but I do believe that you can't go past a standalone engine computer and professional tuning. Either way it still wont be anything like a turbo but you will knock off a good part of a second from your quarter.

Have you done CAI? A true ram air style CAI will also give you a gain like this.


ok so it might be a stupid question, but what is a "CAI, i am not sure what you are talking about, sorry
and if i understand this right i should be able to still add a turbo even wit the venom 400 if it is not all it is cracked up to be. i think, again not sure, but that is why i am here, to learn. thanks
delusionz
Cold Air Intake, Having either the air filter outside of the engine bay where the air is colder, or by having the air filter in a sealed box with a port piped up to the front bumper (the better way--the ram air way)

Cold air is denser than warm air so more air/fuel mixture is able to be combusted giving extra power. If you have a ram air setup then the air is also pressurised by the forward motion of the car giving an extra turbocharged effect (approximately 1psi can be achieved.)
babi_boi
QUOTE (delusionz @ Mar 2, 2009 - 5:11 AM) *
Cold Air Intake, Having either the air filter outside of the engine bay where the air is colder, or by having the air filter in a sealed box with a port piped up to the front bumper (the better way--the ram air way)

Cold air is denser than warm air so more air/fuel mixture is able to be combusted giving extra power. If you have a ram air setup then the air is also pressurised by the forward motion of the car giving an extra turbocharged effect (approximately 1psi can be achieved.)


oh, ok now i know what you are talking about, i think there is a cold air intake on the car, but it might be a short ram intake, not sure but it is from injen and it is chrome with a big filter on the end (i will have some pics. of the car on here tomorrow) but the filter is still under the hood with all the heat, not extended to the bumper.
can you put the big filters in a sealed box with a port pipe to the bumper? again i will have pics tomorrow so you can see what i am talking about
presure2
the venom unit, if you wanna call it that, is a resistor that fools the car into thinking the car is cold at all times, so it dumps more fuel in.

hardly a "performance" mod.

its pretty much a ripoff.
babi_boi
QUOTE (presure2 @ Mar 2, 2009 - 4:47 PM) *
the venom unit, if you wanna call it that, is a resistor that fools the car into thinking the car is cold at all times, so it dumps more fuel in.

hardly a "performance" mod.

its pretty much a ripoff.


so if the "venom" is just adding more fuel then wont that drown out some of the spark or something. if the car is getting to much fuel then it shouldnt make the car run better, it would probably make it run funny wouldnt it?
ZGear
Depends on the car....some may have initial power, some may not do a thing, and some may lose power. I remember Super Street Mag doing the test for the resistors a while back on a 240sx and a Miata. The Miata lost power, but the 240 gained about 5 to 10 hp. It's wasn't proven that it was going to have the same gain again with another 240 so information wasn't reliable.

Like presure said, hardly a performance mod and not likely gonna have the same performance increase.
babi_boi
QUOTE (ZGear @ Mar 2, 2009 - 9:26 PM) *
Depends on the car....some may have initial power, some may not do a thing, and some may lose power. I remember Super Street Mag doing the test for the resistors a while back on a 240sx and a Miata. The Miata lost power, but the 240 gained about 5 to 10 hp. It's wasn't proven that it was going to have the same gain again with another 240 so information wasn't reliable.

Like presure said, hardly a performance mod and not likely gonna have the same performance increase.


so pretty much it would be just taking a chance on wasting about $300, but i guess if nobody trys it nobody will know, thanks for the replies
yungnova
QUOTE (bccentaur3 @ Feb 15, 2009 - 12:38 AM) *
send your camshafts out to webcams and get the 294 regrind. 20+ hp gain.



how much does this cost?
ksporry
Babi,

Is your engine a 3S-GE? I got a 94 GT with a 3S-GE engine, and Turboing is not easy on that engine (read the forced induction thread). It involves upping the injectors, intake, exhaust system, turbo, intercooler, oil piping for intercooler, dump valves (note, in the UK blow off valves are illegal for street use. The dump valve must be internal/recirculated to be street legal), fuel controller, ECU replacement... Quite a bit of work, and lot sof money to have it tuned...
Also, a 3S-GE you cannot boost highly, just about 6 psi or so. More will need forged pistons and rods, and ensure your engine is healthy (very important!)
My engine is very healthy. This is also why I use full synthetic oil (halfords own brand, was only 5 GBP more expensive than their own brand semi synth oil). Teh engine sound sa bit more smoothly now...
babi_boi
QUOTE (ksporry @ Jun 9, 2009 - 7:29 AM) *
Babi,

Is your engine a 3S-GE? I got a 94 GT with a 3S-GE engine, and Turboing is not easy on that engine (read the forced induction thread). It involves upping the injectors, intake, exhaust system, turbo, intercooler, oil piping for intercooler, dump valves (note, in the UK blow off valves are illegal for street use. The dump valve must be internal/recirculated to be street legal), fuel controller, ECU replacement... Quite a bit of work, and lot sof money to have it tuned...
Also, a 3S-GE you cannot boost highly, just about 6 psi or so. More will need forged pistons and rods, and ensure your engine is healthy (very important!)
My engine is very healthy. This is also why I use full synthetic oil (halfords own brand, was only 5 GBP more expensive than their own brand semi synth oil). Teh engine sound sa bit more smoothly now...



no my motor is a 5s-Fe. i have been driving this car for a while now and it seems to have alot of power for being stock. but still i think i want to have a better motor to start with for a platform "bccentaur3" had mentioned something about a 3s swapp earlier. my question is, is the 3s motor a better platform than the 5s-Fe motor that is in my car now? if so what car can i find a 3s motor in and would it be worth the time and money to get the 3s motor and rip it down to the block and completely redo the whole thing with performance parts. (including the block) Then possibly turbo after it is all built.
presure2
browse around the stickys.
the 3sgte is a turbod, performace motor out of the box
there are lots of threads about what it takes, costs, and how to go about it in the forced induction forum.
babi_boi
yes i know sorry. after i posted the last one i started to read the forced induction.
now i haven't read all of them just some of them but even if i get the 3s swapp i still want to ugrade the motor.
it was stated earlier that the 3s swapp should take me down to about 14 secs. in the 1/4 mile. so if i rebuild the 3s swapp from bottom up i should get even a better time right
jimmykay
before doing anything, set some goals that you want to reach. then it gives you a direction you can head. and then start researching on how you can get there.

your goals can be anything from 'i want to make it a little nicer to drive' all the way to 'i want a 500hp, 10 second quartermile monster' naturally, some goals will cost more than others to reach. and some might not be possible at all. so take a realistic look at what you want and see who else has done similar things and read what has been done before. it'll give you a good launching point. if you're just wanting a 14 second car, first re-read this thread and follow their advice. then you can plan out a course to take.
babi_boi
thank you to all who have replied. my goal is to come as close to a 10 sec. car as possible. i know i have alot of research to do and i am going to start.
the car is running strong now and the maintance is really good. so it is no hurry to get there.
even if my car never hits 10 secs. in a 1/4 mile then i wont be dissapointed as long as it is semi close and i am the one to do it all. then at least i will know that whatever it is in the end i can say i did my best and i did it all.
thanks again to all who have replied
delusionz
my gt4 out of the factory (with slightly elevated boost level) should be good for a mid 13 second run. if u had my motor directly swapped into ur car with the lower weight of your car, front wheel drive and good conditions, you may be able to find enough traction to run anywhere between a 13 second and a 14 second quarter, or you may end up spinning your front wheels on the spot.

at this stage if you still want to drive your car on the road you'll have to start looking at your wheels, brakes and suspension, or any use of power could end up dangerous for you.
Mstoochn
QUOTE (babi_boi @ Feb 11, 2009 - 12:39 AM) *
right now all is stock exept intake, car is running good but it cant compete in the 1/4 mile. so the power goal is just to b able to run in the 1/4 and actually have a 1/2 way decent time.(somewhere around 10-12 sec in a 1/4 when the car is done)
it is a 94 and the maintenance seems to b ok but the sparkplug wires are tiny so when i do the tune up i dont really want to put the same tiny stock wires on, do i?
and if i get bigger wires how big can i go with out going to big, then with bigger wires am i going to have to get a better distributor or injectors?


10-12 second 1/4 mile in a 6gc, your looking at e153 tranny conversion with a 3s-gte or 5s-gte pushing 300+WHP
maybe an MR2 would be a better bet for you my friend!
jimmykay
QUOTE (babi_boi @ Jul 8, 2009 - 3:07 PM) *
my goal is to come as close to a 10 sec. car as possible.

I would find a front engine rear wheel drive car with a decent sized engine bay and start there. much more practical. However, if your pockets run deep then you could do something like this.

No offense, I love my car, but if my goal was to build a quick 1/4 mile car, I wouldn't start with a celica. I'd start with an old F-body pony car( Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, etc.)
Smaay
do you know how hard it is to make a 10 sec FWD car? i have a 2001 Celica GTS making 545 WHP and its still not in the 10's thats because i was on a drag radial and not a slick and i havent a tranny to support it. once i finish the E153 conversion and put on slicks, im sure ill be in the 10's. its going to take alot to get a 5S-FE in that range. fully built internals, a medium sized turbo, fuel system to support, and engine management.

read up on my threads and Pressure2's threads. i think we will have the most information that you need. and ofcourse the stickies.

dont get your hopes up on 10 seconds. that is not an easy feat to reach.
babi_boi
QUOTE (jimmykay @ Jul 9, 2009 - 10:50 AM) *
QUOTE (babi_boi @ Jul 8, 2009 - 3:07 PM) *
my goal is to come as close to a 10 sec. car as possible.

I would find a front engine rear wheel drive car with a decent sized engine bay and start there. much more practical. However, if your pockets run deep then you could do something like this.

No offense, I love my car, but if my goal was to build a quick 1/4 mile car, I wouldn't start with a celica. I'd start with an old F-body pony car( Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, etc.)


i already have a 1995 nissan 240 sx se. that is rwd and the motor is built. not sure what it does in a 1/4 but i know with it built it kills the celica every time
babi_boi
QUOTE (Smaay @ Jul 9, 2009 - 11:03 AM) *
do you know how hard it is to make a 10 sec FWD car? i have a 2001 Celica GTS making 545 WHP and its still not in the 10's thats because i was on a drag radial and not a slick and i havent a tranny to support it. once i finish the E153 conversion and put on slicks, im sure ill be in the 10's. its going to take alot to get a 5S-FE in that range. fully built internals, a medium sized turbo, fuel system to support, and engine management.

read up on my threads and Pressure2's threads. i think we will have the most information that you need. and ofcourse the stickies.

dont get your hopes up on 10 seconds. that is not an easy feat to reach.


the car doesnt have to reach 10 secs. i would just like it to be as close as i can possible get it. i know it is really hard to get a fwd car to be a 10sec car but i like to try the impossible or nearly impossible. so i am going to do all the research that i can possibly do than after the research i will review it all than decide on what i want. thanks for the reply
babi_boi
QUOTE (delusionz @ Jul 8, 2009 - 5:49 PM) *
my gt4 out of the factory (with slightly elevated boost level) should be good for a mid 13 second run. if u had my motor directly swapped into ur car with the lower weight of your car, front wheel drive and good conditions, you may be able to find enough traction to run anywhere between a 13 second and a 14 second quarter, or you may end up spinning your front wheels on the spot.

at this stage if you still want to drive your car on the road you'll have to start looking at your wheels, brakes and suspension, or any use of power could end up dangerous for you.


i plan on doing the wheels, brakes, suspension, etc as well as the motor. my plan is to get all the stuff and then do it all together.
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