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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Engine/Transmission/Maintenance
e30og
driving home from class and didnt notice myself creeping into 100+mph. Such a smooth car at highspeeds, even with alignment off and bad rear shocks. Accelerating is effortless.....except almost at redline at 110. this car needs a sixth gear badly. Its not a very fast car off the line either (stock), as this is not suprising to anyone here.

I want to make this Celica a little faster without spending the time/money on an abusive turbo, as i have neither the time nor the money for a turbo kit (if i did a turbo i would want to do it right...no cheap shizzle). I have thought about some kind of swap, but as ambitious as i may be, i doubt I have the know-how for something that extensive

Am I just stuck to intake/exhaust? will either of those even make a noticeable difference in acceleration? I have considered saving up for a 7th Gen GTS; 180 hp, a 6-speed, higher top speed, and slightly better gas mileage...but I am just in love with the way the 6 gen look inside and out. 7th Gen looks like a big step down in swagger and class...haha

give me your opinion!
Chhaos
Since you asked for opinions I will give mine. I think it is stupid to worry about how fast you car is, at least top end wise. Anything above about 80 mph can get scary, let alone the fact that it is not safe to be driving that fast. To get our cars quicker off the line though, there isn't much you can do besides a turbo or swap.
e30og
QUOTE (Chhaos @ Oct 19, 2010 - 10:25 AM) *
Since you asked for opinions I will give mine. I think it is stupid to worry about how fast you car is, at least top end wise. Anything above about 80 mph can get scary, let alone the fact that it is not safe to be driving that fast. To get our cars quicker off the line though, there isn't much you can do besides a turbo or swap.


Not that i am worried about how fast it is, I just thoroughly enjoy the fleeting feeling of accelerating quick....something to put me back in my seat and turn the radio down

I guess i dont care about where it tops out. Let me also rephrase the point....even normal highway cruising at 60-70mph yields some high rpms and a lot of noise. top speed isnt much of an issue, and yea it is wreckless to be flying around that fast anyways. but climbing to 4k rpm doing 70 seems unnecessary.

Also for anyone who has done intake/exhaust/headers, i know gains are minimal, but is there any difference?
96stgreendemon
And here comes the flame war, our usdm celica's are in no way shape or form fast, a geo metro could wax us, there are a few rules with cars such as the celica like "you have to pay to play" and "good parts aint cheep, cheap parts aint good", just remember that.
now if you want to go faster your going to lose gas mileage, unless you can actually keep your pedal off the floor, if you dont want to spend alot of money and don't wanna do anything too intensive your looking at an intake, header, and exhaust with a high flow cat (which your piping size should be no larger than 2.25, that is the most benifit you will get for out cars) you will get 5 to 10 hp tops, i noticed when i put the header on it lost some low end power, but i got more high end power and it feels like it pulls a little further now, besides that not much.
4-eyed-freek
like greendemon stated, your not going to get much of a noticable feel, yes the intake will sound really badass, and if you get a good exhaust job done that will help with the noise factor but other than that our engine are made slow.. fuel economic engines.
KAOS
My ST204 isn't very fast, it has all the bolt on mods, CAI, headers, 2.5" exhaust, short shifter, etc. Its snappy, and of course I want more power, but in Canada we have ST205's now, and I'm mortified to hear that they're only getting ~400KMs a tank... mind you, all my friends have heavy feet... lol.

My ST204 gets around 750kms a tank, and its my DD/work vehicle. If the situation for my car would change where it could be a garage whore all the time, then I would do the swap and not think twice about it, but for something I drive all the time, I would take the mileage over the power any day... and even with <200HP under the hood, its still fun to drive it! biggrin.gif

Each way has pro's and con's, just have to find the smart route for your current situation. GL!
HectortheRican
You wanna go fast? Swap in a build 3rd gen 3SGTE and move to Germany. Get on the Autobahn and drive like a bat outta hell. There's no need to be going about 80-85 on highways. Any faster and you'll be putting yours and other peoples' lives in danger. ESPECIALLY with a bad alignment and rear shocks...

Like everyone says, most you can "cheaply" do is intake and full exhaust. Turboing a 5S isn't that bad of an option either. IMO though, I'd swap in a BEAMS. Turbos go fast, but I'd rather not worry about caring for it. That's just me. And I could get a comfortable 200ish hp out of a BEAMS
jcbass7
QUOTE (e30og @ Oct 19, 2010 - 11:36 AM) *
Also for anyone who has done intake/exhaust/headers, i know gains are minimal, but is there any difference?



I have a ST (1.8L) celica with headers, exhaust, and short ram intake with the timing advanced 6 degrees. I can definitely feel a difference over my (stock) GT (2.2L). I attribute some of this to the ST having a better clutch as well though. But with these mods you can notice the power increase. Not much by any means, but noticeable.
HectortheRican
QUOTE (jcbass7 @ Oct 19, 2010 - 11:19 AM) *
I have a ST (1.8L) celica with headers, exhaust, and short ram intake with the timing advanced 6 degrees. I can definitely feel a difference over my (stock) GT (2.2L). I attribute some of this to the ST having a better clutch as well though. But with these mods you can notice the power increase. Not much by any means, but noticeable.

What does advancing the timing do? Are there negative effects?
mak5603
QUOTE (96stgreendemon @ Oct 19, 2010 - 11:38 AM) *
a geo metro could wax us


Easy there, he's driving a GT, I don't know how slow your ST is, but I wouldn't go there, lol.

But yeah, I don't know how many times this has to be addressed. USDM Celica is NOT fast without swap or turbo...just the way it is.
KAOS
QUOTE (HectortheRican @ Oct 19, 2010 - 11:55 AM) *
QUOTE (jcbass7 @ Oct 19, 2010 - 11:19 AM) *
I have a ST (1.8L) celica with headers, exhaust, and short ram intake with the timing advanced 6 degrees. I can definitely feel a difference over my (stock) GT (2.2L). I attribute some of this to the ST having a better clutch as well though. But with these mods you can notice the power increase. Not much by any means, but noticeable.

What does advancing the timing do? Are there negative effects?


This is a handy little write up: http://www.team-integra.net/sections/artic...p?ArticleID=235
Tigawoods
buy my stock cams. get them regrinded

they will throw you back some
stephen_lee
advancing timing gives you a slightly fatter torque curve.
HectortheRican
QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Oct 19, 2010 - 3:44 PM) *
advancing timing gives you a slightly fatter torque curve.

Sooo would it be worth it to do?
stephen_lee
if you have access to a timing light. advance it to 15* btdc and you're good. any more and you will NEED supreme gas.
mkernz22
how much do decent timing lights go for?
once i get a manual swap done, i was looking into doing some more to the engine
HectortheRican
What's a timing light anyway? Is this something I can do myself?
Spider77
If your wanting to go as low cost as possible, get an inductive timing light. Pretty much, jump terminals te1/e1, hook up leads from light (pos/neg batt) and then clamp on the #1 spark plug wire. Turn car over, get gun and point directly at underdrive pulley. What happens is the light flashes and you are looking for the notch, once you locate it, it'll tell you what your timing is at (stock is 10 BTDC). I've advanced mine to 15 and have not had any problems.
But stephen is right, go too far and you'll need the good gas. Here is the write up I used Advance Timing. Although that Teg write up is pretty good as well.
HectortheRican
Oh god I'm gonna have to research this lol. Sounds like a good thing to do though. I don't think I'll go to 15. Maybe 12 or 13.
Spider77
There is really not much to it. If you dont get any knock at 15, go to 15! I mean if you advance to 12 why bother?
mkernz22
do you need a higher grade fuel at 15?
HectortheRican
How much will it cost?
hokuten3
hummm....try headers. i got the cheap ones of ebay.haha. well, they were 115 shipped, so over $100. but i feel more torque and power.
e30og
yea i guess im more pleased with the way the car handles, as well as the look/feel of it than the speed, even with the GT motor instead of the ST. Dont want to Fudge with the timing...too many horror stories and it doesnt sound like it would do much. motor has too many miles to risk KABOOM. I guess Ill decide if i want to look at moving to a faster 7th gen, or work with what I have. something tells me I am too attached to this car to get something else. She may be a little slow but I still love her in the end haha

thanks for all the input...this site is the most valuable resource i have for the car!
4-eyed-freek
WARNING! dont go crazy with timing on your engine i just personally watched someone f*ck there engine up less than 2 hours ago. yes its fine to do it and slight power gains will be there but dont go speed racer on it like what i saw! it really made me think twice about ever doing it on an n/a engine, but it was funny as heck to watch!
stephen_lee
yeah my buddy advanced mine to 30 or so by accident.. BAD knocking.
Spider77
Wow, 30 is really pushing it on these engines. Yeah, don't run too much or it will do some damage (sooner or later). Your not going to blow up at 5 deg, something like 20 deg with reg unlead you might have some problems.
A little tidbit about octane:
"The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. When gas ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the spark plug, it causes knocking in the engine. Knocking can damage an engine, so it is not something you want to have happening. Lower-octane gas (like "regular" 87-octane gasoline) can handle the least amount of compression before igniting. "
KAOS
QUOTE (Spider77 @ Oct 20, 2010 - 4:11 PM) *
Wow, 30 is really pushing it on these engines. Yeah, don't run too much or it will do some damage (sooner or later). Your not going to blow up at 5 deg, something like 20 deg with reg unlead you might have some problems.
A little tidbit about octane:
"The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. When gas ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the spark plug, it causes knocking in the engine. Knocking can damage an engine, so it is not something you want to have happening. Lower-octane gas (like "regular" 87-octane gasoline) can handle the least amount of compression before igniting. "


Since you've advanced your timing back in 2000 - have you had any "timing" related issues with the car?

As in any issues that have come up that are directly related to the advanced timing... ?

QUOTE (HectortheRican @ Oct 19, 2010 - 4:28 PM) *
What's a timing light anyway?


Sorry bro - no offence, but if you're asking that question I REALLY hope you do more research for yourself before doing a mod like this... tongue.gif BE SAFE! biggrin.gif
Spider77
Um, I have no clue what you mean by 2000, but considering I advanced by ear at first (dont really recommend), and checked it (turns out I was at 16...not bad when aiming for 15 right?), borrowed an inductive light, and adjusted down to 15 deg. I have not had any problems. IMO the car runs better this way. But I do try to keep on top of PM's, but when I do get a spare engine (ie swap) im going to push it just cause.
KAOS
QUOTE (Spider77 @ Oct 20, 2010 - 4:49 PM) *
Um, I have no clue what you mean by 2000, but considering I advanced by ear at first (dont really recommend), and checked it (turns out I was at 16...not bad when aiming for 15 right?), borrowed an inductive light, and adjusted down to 15 deg. I have not had any problems. IMO the car runs better this way. But I do try to keep on top of PM's, but when I do get a spare engine (ie swap) im going to push it just cause.



That's my bad; in that link you posted it said, "16º BTDC: Pretty good for now. That’s what I have it set at as of December 20, 2000." and for some reason I assumed that you wrote that.

But I see now that you just said thats the article you used... sorry about that wink.gif
Spider77
NP, i have 15deg, and have no probs
KAOS
QUOTE (Spider77 @ Oct 20, 2010 - 5:07 PM) *
NP, i have 15deg, and have no probs


and the difference is obvious and noticable, yeah?
HectortheRican
QUOTE (KAOS @ Oct 20, 2010 - 4:27 PM) *
QUOTE (HectortheRican @ Oct 19, 2010 - 4:28 PM) *
What's a timing light anyway?


Sorry bro - no offence, but if you're asking that question I REALLY hope you do more research for yourself before doing a mod like this... tongue.gif BE SAFE! biggrin.gif


LOL don't worry, I'm not the kind to jump in without extensive research.
e30og
QUOTE (Spider77 @ Oct 20, 2010 - 6:07 PM) *
NP, i have 15deg, and have no probs


how much has mileage suffered, if any?
Spider77
Well, I havent really checked, it seems to last just as long as before...it just depends on the way I drive.
Tom_SS2
confused.gif what engine is in the USDM GT a 5S-FE? the 3S-GE hits roughly 100 in third
jcbass7
QUOTE (mkernz22 @ Oct 19, 2010 - 6:24 PM) *
how much do decent timing lights go for?
once i get a manual swap done, i was looking into doing some more to the engine


I got a real nice dial back one for about 60$ off of summitracing.com, I have to use it to tune/time the vette. Those older cars like that need a lot more timing TLC than any of the newer ones. Its fairly straight forward. If I ever get some free time we could probable try to do it together. (I'm in Gloucester Ma most of the time or at school in CT)

QUOTE (e30og @ Oct 20, 2010 - 10:11 PM) *
QUOTE (Spider77 @ Oct 20, 2010 - 6:07 PM) *
NP, i have 15deg, and have no probs


how much has mileage suffered, if any?



I get about the same mileage with my stock GT vs. the modified ST. But remember one is 1.8l and the other is 2.2, so theoretically the ST should get better mileage? Still its all wayyyy better than what I get in the vette so I have no complaints.

QUOTE (Tom_SS2 @ Oct 21, 2010 - 6:49 AM) *
confused.gif what engine is in the USDM GT a 5S-FE? the 3S-GE hits roughly 100 in third


Yep, USDM GT is a 5sfe
stephen_lee
in theory, increasing timing SHOULD help your MPG number, in practice, you won't notice a difference.
mkernz22
QUOTE (jcbass7 @ Oct 21, 2010 - 8:35 AM) *
QUOTE (mkernz22 @ Oct 19, 2010 - 6:24 PM) *
how much do decent timing lights go for?
once i get a manual swap done, i was looking into doing some more to the engine


I got a real nice dial back one for about 60$ off of summitracing.com, I have to use it to tune/time the vette. Those older cars like that need a lot more timing TLC than any of the newer ones. Its fairly straight forward. If I ever get some free time we could probable try to do it together. (I'm in Gloucester Ma most of the time or at school in CT)


Gloucester is a hike and a half from Norton! haha I'm down near Taunton and Brockton, but I don't mind driving so maybe one day in the spring we could meet up. Which would be after my manual swap smile.gif
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