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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > My Project
stephen_lee
So this is for the daily. Plain, boring 95 ST auto. I bought it with 150k miles or so... now 3 years later it sits at about 260k miles. I use it for work and i drive A LOT of miles. (but get reimbursed for every mile i drive wink.gif ) So anyway at one point of owning it, i managed to suck up some water into the engine. I pulled the spark plugs and cranked it to get the water out... fast forward a year. I did a compression test and found cyl one to have low compression (160-185-190-190) and a cap of oil did not increase it.. valves right? so i pulled the head to replace it with one of my spares, and found that piston 1 came about 1 mm lower than the rest... i bent a rod..

so now comes the decision of what to do. the chassis is in great shape, most new suspension stuff(replaced cxause i wanted it to be tight wink.gif) and decent body.
replace car(most likely with an Lexus ES, or LS) or replace engine. Now this car has been through hell w/ me and i love the celica... so its pretty obvious replace the engine.

So comes the choice what engine? rebuild the 7a spare i have for about 1k or beams swap for about 2k.

7a: easier and cheaper. same 30~ mpg. still SLOW
beams: about 2x cost, not terribly difficult for a redtop, 35~ mpg, quicker.

so i want to go beams on the daily... but keep it auto cause houston traffic and the miles i drive in it will SUCK with a stick... plus i have the V6 when i really wanna play lol wink.gif
richee3
You know my vote smile.gif

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280867619303?redirect=mobile

I'm still running a bit rich and managing 33-34 mpg on the highway, and around 27-28 in town. I'm not sure what the auto will do but it can't be terrible.
rave2n
I say Beams.

I'm not a hater of the 7a, but if you have the option to go bigger...why not!?
kurt95gt
F**k all this
Finish the 3vz an drop a 1uz in this one tongue.gif
Lol
Ok iguess a beams will do lol
CrimsonSTX
Keeping an eye on this because I'm pretty much in the same boat.

Also the Beams gets my vote too lol
Box
BEAMS it up Scotty!!! laugh.gif
Syaoran
QUOTE (Box @ May 11, 2012 - 3:44 PM) *
BEAMS it up Scotty!!! laugh.gif



+1

Beams! Peppy, daily-driveable, high MPG, can keep it auto.
stephen_lee
BEAMS seems to be a favorite around here.

and the v6 is waiting on a clutch line and the shop to finish up machine work on the axle and shell drive smile.gif

I'm going to finish up the v6 and then start the swap on the DD. if all else fails ill use my girls civic... not like she goes anywhere tongue.gif w
ricochet1490
beams auto FTFW - run the 7a till it explodes though... why the heck not. what's 1 cyl missing 20 psi? lol
Save for the swap in the mean time
Smaay
why is the BEAMS such a favorite? its a 2L with VVT, big deal....if you are upgrading from a 7A, just go V6 (1MZ or 3MZ) the cost will be the same or less than a BEAMS, and you can get new parts for it.
kurt95gt
Hes already got one v6 swap
The beams has good power for a dd an just as good if not better mpg! Han the 7a
Box
QUOTE (Smaay @ May 15, 2012 - 12:45 PM) *
why is the BEAMS such a favorite? its a 2L with VVT, big deal....if you are upgrading from a 7A, just go V6 (1MZ or 3MZ) the cost will be the same or less than a BEAMS, and you can get new parts for it.

For me: it's because it's the same power as the V6(just less torque), easier to swap in, easier to work on, better mpg, etc... After having one transversely mounted V6, never again. Only downside is BEAMS part availability. If I were swapping, that's what I'd go with.
kurt95gt
I like my v6 swap thank you very much box lol
Box
Until you have to change the rear spark plugs, or anything else back there. tongue.gif
kurt95gt
Been there done that took ten minutes. Lol

Well mayne 15minutes
stephen_lee
actually my 3vz swap has plenty of room to get to the rear bank plugs.. more room than it did in the donor car (ES300)

and yea a v6 swap is actually cheaper for a bare minimum swap. but beams as stated has better power and better mpg opposed to the 7a, the v6 swap has no know axle setup for an autp... plus i want the smoothness of VVTi
Box
QUOTE (kurt95gt @ May 15, 2012 - 2:24 PM) *
Been there done that took ten minutes. Lol

Well mayne 15minutes


Ah, so it's not as bad as most transverse V6 then. All the ones I've known, had to remove the air intake plenum to reach the rear spark plugs. Still, I'll take the convenience of the inline 4. tongue.gif
richee3
I don't know that the BEAMS can out-MPG the 7A, since my old 7A auto got 34 mpg highway and the BEAMS manual is doing 33-34. Seems like the 7A can do a little better, unless you're trying to drive it a little harder. The BEAMS can do everything the 7A can but do it much easier. Smaay raises an excellent point of the V6 in an ST, as the work load involved will be similar in changing all the mounts, etc. The BEAMS has a couple more hp than a 1MZ, but significantly less torque. And as Stephen and bloodMoney have enlightened me, the torque curve of a V6 is much much better than a 4 cylinder. Truthfully, once the V6 swap is covered a little more widely, I'm strongly considering pulling my BEAMS and throwing a 1MZ in the Celica.

In Stephen's case, the BEAMS is comparable gas mileage to the 7A with loads more power at all speeds. He already has a 3VZ swapped Celica, so that defeats the purpose of a second V6 Celica. I vote BEAMS but I'm biased tongue.gif

QUOTE (Box @ May 15, 2012 - 4:02 PM) *
Ah, so it's not as bad as most transverse V6 then. All the ones I've known, had to remove the air intake plenum to reach the rear spark plugs. Still, I'll take the convenience of the inline 4. tongue.gif

Sounds like my IS 300 frown.gif Intake plenum/throttle body have to come off and cylinder 6 plug? Eff that business.
SupraKid
You guys are not factoring in that the beams requires premium fuel. I would take a v6 over a beams ANY day. Way more power and torque down low and overall, more readily available parts, the ability to make a lot of power if you ever wanted to, can run 87....Yes please.
kurt95gt
^^^good point
That settles it time for you to swap a 2gr swap inthis one an just dd the 3vz
ricochet1490
it doesn't REQUIRE premium fuel as the ECU will detune over time.... you won't be as much power... maybe -3hp. hatchy-gts is beams and 87 octane all day
richee3
QUOTE (SupraKid @ May 15, 2012 - 5:04 PM) *
You guys are not factoring in that the beams requires premium fuel. I would take a v6 over a beams ANY day. Way more power and torque down low and overall, more readily available parts, can run 87....Yes please.

Big picture, Andrew. Big picture. He HAS a V6 Celica already. BEAMS has more power than the 1MZ and 3VZ, though admittedly less torque. Besides, which do YOU want? A BEAMS in your Celica or another 7A? laugh.gif
SupraKid
QUOTE (richee3 @ May 15, 2012 - 3:18 PM) *
QUOTE (SupraKid @ May 15, 2012 - 5:04 PM) *
You guys are not factoring in that the beams requires premium fuel. I would take a v6 over a beams ANY day. Way more power and torque down low and overall, more readily available parts, can run 87....Yes please.

Big picture, Andrew. Big picture. He HAS a V6 Celica already. BEAMS has more power than the 1MZ and 3VZ, though admittedly less torque. Besides, which do YOU want? A BEAMS in your Celica or another 7A? laugh.gif

At 99,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999rpm for half a second it does, but the v6s are making their power throughout the power band, so it would feel MUCH more powerful(until higher RPM of course).And yes you can run the beams on 87 but you will lose MPG, making it just as expensive as 91(in CA). And I'm sure as Mr. Richee knows all too well, parts for a rare engine like the beams add up REAL fast.

Beams are unique, but not the smartest option for a DD by any means. (In my opinion of course)

EDIT: Just went and found some graphs:
A/T stock 1mz:

Modified beams with an AEM EMS:
richee3
QUOTE (richee3 @ May 15, 2012 - 4:07 PM) *
The BEAMS has a couple more hp than a 1MZ, but significantly less torque. And as Stephen and bloodMoney have enlightened me, the torque curve of a V6 is much much better than a 4 cylinder. Truthfully, once the V6 swap is covered a little more widely, I'm strongly considering pulling my BEAMS and throwing a 1MZ in the Celica.

From my earlier post. I fully admit that a V6 is a superior engine to the BEAMS smile.gif And you still didn't answer my question. Given the choice between a stock ST or a BEAMS-swapped Celica, which are you going to choose? Parts for the BEAMS aren't bad. 95% of any part you will ever need can come from a 1ZZ.
Box
Still, 34 highway on premium is cheaper than 26 highway on regular. Especially save money in city driving where the V6 really hurts you. Still, rather have BEAMS purely for mpg and convenience. **** it, drop in a 350. laugh.gif
stephen_lee
This debate is getting pretty interesting..

the v6 will kill any 4cyl in torque. even if its a 2.4l v6 opposed to a 2.4l I4.. simply the way the engine is designed (a v6 will start a power stroke every 120* compared to every 180* making a smoother power band and lesss "negative" torque when the engine needs the inertia of the rotating mass to keep turning..)

but in the end, less displacement = more MPG. i can baby the 4cyl and get 40 mpg. or baby the v6 and get 25mpg.

are we overlooking the fact i HAVE A V6 CELICA ALREADY? lol i have one celica to haul ass in, and one i drive everyday... i want good MPG but a little more pep than the 7a or 5s can give me... acceleration is pretty important in houston traffic
Box
QUOTE (stephen_lee @ May 16, 2012 - 8:06 AM) *
are we overlooking the fact i HAVE A V6 CELICA ALREADY? lol i have one celica to haul ass in, and one i drive everyday... i want good MPG but a little more pep than the 7a or 5s can give me... acceleration is pretty important in houston traffic

Why do you think I keep saying to BEAMS it? tongue.gif
stephen_lee
actually considering giving this car to my little brother who is just about to get his license and buying an LS400 instead... having a baby soon and the wife is complaining the celica is too low lol.
Box
Pffft, tell her to get better at getting low then. laugh.gif
stephen_lee
hahah shes plenty good wink.gif

buut with a beachball hiding under her shirt its pretty hard to bend down to get in or out of the car. Anyway the celica has been feeling a little cramped since before she got pregnant. atleast im not going CHEVY like she wanted tongue.gif we compromised on the lexus
kurt95gt
Well theres your problem
Tell to stop hiding a beach ball in her shirt an it wont be too low then lol

Altho if she feels the need to hide one under there have her push it up alil higher
But then she has to put 2 up her shirt so she wont be off balanced tongue.gif
Box
Lexus is nice. But once you're done getting coil-overs and all for it... tongue.gif
stephen_lee
well just got a near mint 94 LS400 for $800 smile.gif
RabidTRD
Hoooman. Nice pickup for that cheap haha.

I'd still rather the SC400 tongue.gif
stephen_lee
LS400 is powerful. i like smile.gif

Box
QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Jun 23, 2012 - 8:18 PM) *
well just got a near mint 94 LS400 for $800 smile.gif

Say what? What a steal!
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