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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Engine/Transmission/Maintenance
Syaoran
http://speed-source.net/?wpsc-product=toyota-engine-mounts

They don't seem to have an application specific to our generation. Being the kind of bushing it is I'm thinking there should be one compatible, like perhaps the MR2 NA ones. Anybody know?
BonzaiCelica
all MR2 NA from 91-96 come with s54 transmission same as our cars. So it should fit just fine
Tigawoods
im a bit confused as to the difference between these and Kirks inserts. How would these mount?
Does the S54 on the MR2 NA have the same mount points as us?
Batman722
QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Oct 24, 2012 - 3:53 PM) *
im a bit confused as to the difference between these and Kirks inserts. How would these mount?
Does the S54 on the MR2 NA have the same mount points as us?

The speed source mounts completely replace the rubber bushing of the stock mount, like the poly a-arm bushings some people have done.
The kirk inserts work in addition to the stock rubber of the mounts.
BonzaiCelica
QUOTE (Batman722 @ Oct 24, 2012 - 4:06 PM) *
QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Oct 24, 2012 - 3:53 PM) *
im a bit confused as to the difference between these and Kirks inserts. How would these mount?
Does the S54 on the MR2 NA have the same mount points as us?

The speed source mounts completely replace the rubber bushing of the stock mount, like the poly a-arm bushings some people have done.
The kirk inserts work in addition to the stock rubber of the mounts.


oh yea what he said^
Tigawoods
I would asume the speed source ones, since all Poly-U would be "better" than the inserts yeah?
Syaoran
The kirkosaurus ones work in unison with the stock ones, which means the effective stiffness of the mount in final form is less than the stiffness of the inserts.

A 75A insert along with the rubber mounts could give you a final mount stiffness of, say, 60A.

These inserts are 75A . The way they work is as was mentioned before, these replace the whole mount. So you'd have to press / hammer out the old bushing and press in the new one. The bushing is a complete bushing, so it leaves VERY little room for movement (almost unnoticeable) at the cost of increase NVH over the inserts. The inserts only work best if the mounts are still in good condition.

Getting new mounts + inserts is more expensive than getting these Speed Source poly mounts, so I'm trying to get these instead.

@BonzaiCelica: I was thinking about that, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the bushings on the mounts are the same. That's why I ask. My worry is that they're too small. If the bushings are bigger than the mount, I can just cut them down to size. Guess I'll probably have to bite the bullet and find out if they don't answer my email.
Batman722
Better, yes and no. Just like the kirks you'll get a lot of vibration until they break in but IMO these will vibrate more because there is no soft rubber to absorb anything. And in that regard they'll hold the motor in place a little better with very little movement.

Easier to install, yes and no. Either way you have to remove the mounts, with the kirks, just add, with SS you have to cut/remove all the rubber and ring. Both stick out past the mount so putting them in isn't bad but not as simple as without.

I've have kirks and like them. Stiffer than stock and work.
I've installed the SS on someone else's mounts (MR2 w/3rd gen swap) and I don't know first hand how they are compared.
Syaoran
QUOTE (Batman722 @ Oct 24, 2012 - 8:50 PM) *
Better, yes and no. Just like the kirks you'll get a lot of vibration until they break in but IMO these will vibrate more because there is no soft rubber to absorb anything. And in that regard they'll hold the motor in place a little better with very little movement.

Easier to install, yes and no. Either way you have to remove the mounts, with the kirks, just add, with SS you have to cut/remove all the rubber and ring. Both stick out past the mount so putting them in isn't bad but not as simple as without.

I've have kirks and like them. Stiffer than stock and work.
I've installed the SS on someone else's mounts (MR2 w/3rd gen swap) and I don't know first hand how they are compared.



As I stated before the kirk mounts are softer than the full poly mounts. It's better for comfort that way, but not as good for performance. In a FWD application it's much more vital to keep the wheels on the ground, which means as little engine movement as possible. However there's a threshold to how much NVH each individual can stand. I installed the kirk front and rear in my previous Celica, and it was just fine for me, but there was room for improvement since the engine moved anyways, just not as much as before. However everything rattled much more than before, and compared to the performance I felt it wasn't worth it.

This time I think I'm trying the full poly inserts and see how it goes. MR2 is different from the Celica and the NVH transmission isn't the same as the chassis isn't the same. The Celica's cabin is a bit more insulated from the engine than the MR2's, and that makes a difference (I've driven MR2s with Kirk inserts and it was much worse than my 5G with kirk inserts. Both were 5SFE)
Tigawoods
damn this thread. now I am considering these. I doubt I will relive that initial shock from stock -> kirks. Plus the break in they have had. I dont see full poly being anything substantially more stiff than the inserts. Not to the point of unbearability I would think.

keep me posted on what you end up getting. Id like to grab some within the next few days.
Syaoran
I'm still trying to get a confirmation from a vendor to see if the MK2 MR-2 mount bushings will fit in ours. Just contacted TwosRUs... should get a reply in the next day. I'll let you know.

Got a reply from David @ TwosRUs:

"I have no idea and my gut says no. Sorry.

David
twosrus.com"

The only way to find out is to measure the mount diameter in an MR-2. I have a feeling they're going to be the same, but I don't have anything to measure with right now.
Tigawoods
I had somewhat expected slight vague responses.

Ill measure tonight (if we dont already have the numbers on here) our front and rear mounts, and I suppose I could throw up a post on a couple MR2 boards to see what they come up with. Im hoping to get them within the next few days if this all works out


EDIT**
Why not have him measure his PolyU Mounts he has there for the MR2 and we can measure the diameters of our mounts


Reading around I keep seeing 73mm for NA.
Syaoran
I'll go ahead and ask on the MR2 forums. If you could measure ours, I'll mail TwosRUs to see if they can measure theirs to compare.
Tigawoods
I'll measure them tonight, when im back home
Syaoran
Awesome, thanks.
Tigawoods
I forgot my fine measure ruler at my apartment so I used a regular contractor tape measure.
Not as accurate but I got 3" (76mm or so) for both front and rear. Thats measuring from the outer metal case ring inside of the mount
Syaoran
QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Oct 26, 2012 - 10:38 PM) *
I forgot my fine measure ruler at my apartment so I used a regular contractor tape measure.
Not as accurate but I got 3" (76mm or so) for both front and rear. Thats measuring from the outer metal case ring inside of the mount



There's 3 sizes apparently for the MR2 front mount. The rear seems to be the same for all engines in the MR2.


Front:
http://www.tuningdevelopments.co.uk/produc...products_id=371

Rear:
http://www.tuningdevelopments.co.uk/produc...products_id=370

Going to keep searching

EDIT: In any case if none of the work (which I doubt sincerely), there's these:

http://www.gt4-racing.eu/index.php/toyota-...gine-mount-rear
Takumi-FujiWaraST
If the mounts rubber isn't completely ruined/cracked you could always polly fill them. I've used polly filled mounts with great results on past projects.
Syaoran
My rear mount is completely gone, sadly. I'd have to buy a new one which is starting to look like the more feasible option right now. Still haven't been able to find the MR2 measurement.
Tigawoods
Im not really sure they will fit kindasad.gif

here is another link I found with a few numbers

http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/know-your-2-knowled...amp;kbartid=160
Syaoran
If the bushings are bigger than out mounts, you can shave them to fit and they'll do their job anywho. Otherwise, gt4-racing.eu has poly bushes for the ST202 which uses the same mounts as the ST204

http://www.gt4-racing.eu/index.php/toyota-...nt-engine-mount
Tigawoods
QUOTE (Syaoran @ Oct 31, 2012 - 11:36 AM) *
If the bushings are bigger than out mounts, you can shave them to fit and they'll do their job anywho. Otherwise, gt4-racing.eu has poly bushes for the ST202 which uses the same mounts as the ST204

http://www.gt4-racing.eu/index.php/toyota-...nt-engine-mount

Id rather buy them the right size. I dont really have any resources that I know of to shave them.
That mount would be a good buy. But no rear one in sight.

Will the ST205 Mounts match up with the 5SFE? If both the front and rear crossmember mounts are the same then the GT-Four poly mounts from speed source would work. Just wondering if the diameter is the same

Im not sure whats going on with Speed Source but I have other items I have purchased that havent been shipped and they havent responded to my emails.


I have called speed source a few times and no response. I need a backup plan incase they just dont respond
http://www.gt4-racing.eu/index.php/toyota-...ne-mounts-st205
these are both the front and rear mount for the ST205. All signs point them fitting. Still looking for more details

another thing is that these mounts above dont extend out of the metal ring area like the inserts and the speed source ones do. Just an observation. Im not sure how much having that space filled, helps
Syaoran
The bigger SpeedSource bushing theoretically transmits more vibrations because the mount makes contact with more metal than the GT4-racing design.

There IS a rear one: http://www.gt4-racing.eu/index.php/toyota-...gine-mount-rear
Tigawoods
I want to go with the speed source ones but they arent replying to anything

you can get all 4 for 90 from them rather than 90 for just one from gt4eu
Syaoran
QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Oct 31, 2012 - 11:03 PM) *
I want to go with the speed source ones but they arent replying to anything

you can get all 4 for 90 from them rather than 90 for just one from gt4eu



Yeah, I inquired about a week ago and I've had no reply since. I wanted to purchase their shifter bushing kit but I just purchased them from eBay. Brass is brass anyway, but I'm still missing the shifter base bushings.


Anywho, I'm thinking of just getting my rear mount done in polyurethane. My front one still looks good and I don't think it receives as much a beating as the rear one.

If my front one breaks, I'd just get the GT4-racing front as well. We'll see. I gotta ask those guys a couple Qs.
Tigawoods
found out this was discussed in the past
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=43516
Syaoran
Good find, I couldn't find that before posting this thread.

So they'll require modification to fit and getting a front ST205 mount as well...
Tigawoods
Ive read so many different things i dont even know what will or wont fit.

I did figure out that two's r us sells the mounts. Its good to have a reliable seller available.

The reviews all say how rough they get. Im curious to see how much more NVH you get from the inserts, to these

http://twosrus.com/catalog/product_info.ph...products_id=215
Syaoran
Well for now I think I'm going to just buy a stock replacement mount. WHEN it breaks, I'll get a GT4-racing.eu full insert, since it's the only one guaranteed to fit the ST204.
99gt3sge
i used the ones for a st185 on my friends 6th gen, and on my bros 5thgen with the s54 i useto use on my 6th gen. well worth it , but yes it vibrates a bit


QUOTE (Syaoran @ Oct 23, 2012 - 12:42 AM) *
http://speed-source.net/?wpsc-product=toyota-engine-mounts

They don't seem to have an application specific to our generation. Being the kind of bushing it is I'm thinking there should be one compatible, like perhaps the MR2 NA ones. Anybody know?

BonzaiCelica
i wrote to speed source a few days ago. then tried calling them today but the number is no longer in service. So yea terrible customer service or if the company even exists any more???

gt4 racing.eu no longer makes that rear full poly insert with metal ring that has to be pressed in for the ST202.

I contacted BRD in UK through facebook. they charge 90 British Pounds = $115 plus shipping for front and rear full poly so you'd have to completely grind out old rubber material from original toyota mount
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