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Full Version: Black top head on a red top beams?
6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Engine/Transmission/Maintenance
Mo_tron
Does anyone know if this is possible or has been done before?
Not saying I want to do it this was just a drunken idea the other night tongue.gif
Would be cool running the dual vvti though, and you can find the heads reasonably cheap here in NZ

Had a quick look but didn't see anything obvious but could be using man eyes haha

Have also heard you can modify 4age itb's to fit the 3sge?
Rusty
it is possible to put a blacktop head on a redtop. however fitting it into a ST20# celica is another mission, due to

more room required for the vvti camgears, which would go into the strut tower and engine mount
customised the wiring so you can run the ex. vvti
oil drain from the head as the redtop is on an angle the blacktop is straight


there are no gains from swapping the cams over as they are apparently the same size which are IN. 226@ .50"/1mm, EX. 222 @ .50"/1mm

its not a very cost effective move, best to look into a stand alone ecu + tuning, but even then your looking at the range of 3-5,000 NZD most likely.

There is an auusie guy Glenn Booth who makes itbs for the beams, but I think your looking at around the 3,000NZD mark?
Mo_tron
Ah, so you couldn't swap the black top exhaust cam into the red top head and run a standalone ecu?

Probably a silly question but forgive me i'm new tongue.gif
BonzaiCelica
Go to the beams section of the mr2 forum boards. Its anothrt forum. Type in veams redtop forum in google search.
Rusty
well if the camshafts are technically the same spec, whats the point in swapping them?

another problem you'll run into is how to control the new vvti camshaft, as the beams rely on an oil control valve to adjust the timing of each cam pulley

once you have a look and compare the redtop cam pulley's and the blacktop pulley's I think you'll understand what I'm talking about, check TM for altezza's and notice how big the cam pulley cover is wink.gif



don't worry these aren't silly questions, its all about learning and getting an understanding smile.gif

also I like your avatar picture of the beams, looks a lot nicer than Bonzai's
BonzaiCelica
haha hey now no picking on me although it's true. dual vvti is better for outputting power. but toyotat went with vvti on exhaust side for emissions. check out this website :

http://www.mr2.com/forums/beams-owners-group/
Mo_tron
Haha thanks guys, looks like I have a little more reading to do now smile.gif

Also thanks to your cold air box sticky Rusty I will hopefully be building one very soon, but what did you do with your MAF?
My old man just got an over the radiator intake on his commowhore and they can tune the standard ecu to run MAFless, can we do the same or did you just add it into the new piping?
richee3
QUOTE (Mo_tron @ Apr 30, 2013 - 4:48 PM) *
Haha thanks guys, looks like I have a little more reading to do now smile.gif

Also thanks to your cold air box sticky Rusty I will hopefully be building one very soon, but what did you do with your MAF?
My old man just got an over the radiator intake on his commowhore and they can tune the standard ecu to run MAFless, can we do the same or did you just add it into the new piping?

Rusty has a 3rd gen 3S-GE, not a BEAMS. The MAF is the alpha and the omega on a BEAMS, and you cannot alter your intake much, nor can you do anything with the factory ECU. The factory ECU has extremely tight tolerances on the MAF and loses power when you alter the intake much, or just won't run right at all. With a standalone, your options are much much wider.
Mo_tron
Aw man frown.gif

Thanks for the heads up though I was about ready to go so you've just saved me a lot of head scratching and swearing!
richee3
You could get the SARD Sports+ intake and build a custom box around it. smile.gif
Mo_tron
So leave the stock piping? Or can I put the MAF into a stainless set up and go from there?
Rusty
Thanks, that thread is a good read. Yes I'm running a 3rd Gen 3S-GE, which has the MAP sensor.


My take on the matter is, when you start using aftermarket air intake/filters on the beams engine, you also increase turbulent air flow. Which is too erratic for the maf to pick up. People have tried a few things such as different air filters, the size piping and even a honeycomb thing to try and straighten the air flow. But overall factory and the SARD filter works best. and 71mm piping bonzai?


You could try a trd panel filter which will fit the factory box.


If you were looking at building a cold airbox, see what other people have tried with the beams, what worked, didn't work etc. Try different ideas, such as placement of the maf, size piping and stepping down the size and ways of straightening the airflow. and then see what results you get on the dyno.
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