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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Engine/Transmission/Maintenance
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1soljaslim5
Seems like the problem wont go away upon cold start this happens it starts yet idles low i gotta push the gas to at least 2k for about 35 seconds
(sorry for text message ringtone)

and it begins dropping low to about 300 and my car begins to rattle ALOT.


but once the engine is all warmed up it idles here and everything goes back to normal.(same vid posted from previous post)


this coldstart is becoming an issue now any ideas guys?
Bitter
I know a lot of 7A guys that have this problem too. Check the resistance of the engine coolant temp sensor (2 wire) against specs when it's cold out. I did a lot and never fixed mine, but I also never checked/replaced the sensor. I replaced the IAC and cleaned the throttle multiple times, even reset the throttle zero position to account for wear. No dice. Does the exhaust smell super rich when it's running ****ty without help?
1soljaslim5
yea it kind of does and ive cleaned the iscv as well as the throttle body and the maf checked the hoses no leaks and to top it of i got no CEL so i honestly dont know what more to do and i dont wanna go around buying parts that wont solve the problem.so im running out of ideas of what may be causing this.
richee3
You said you reset the ECU after you fixed the ISCV issue, right? And just to be clear, it only does this when the engine is cold? Not after it has warmed up?
1soljaslim5
Yes at first i thought i had a bad iscv so i replaced it and later found out it was bad wiring so the original iscv was fine i cleaned it as well i resseted the ECU and still same issue upon coldstart it just wants to die so i hold the gas for good 45 secs and let it idle and yes once engine is warm and temp reaches half way it idles normal.
Bitter
Check the resistance of the ECT against specs and see if it's got a dead spot at low temperatures. Check the IAT as well. Either of those reading colder than it actually is will cause weird problems and never set a light.
richee3
I've been putting some thought into this and I can't come up with anything at all. On cold start, your ECU ignores all sensor input and runs on a base map. If anything, your problem should be the other way around where problems start to develop after the engine has warmed up. The only thing I can think of is that it might still be ISCV related. My ISCV is only about half working at the moment and I don't have a code for it, so it has to be pretty bad before the ECU starts to care. Rdyzz did the research and found that the Civic valve will work, and his hasn't had any issues at all so I doubt if it's the Civic valve unless yours was faulty right off the shelf. It would still give you issues after the motor has warmed up though. I suggest unplugging sensors one at a time when the motor is cold to see if any of them make a difference.
Bitter
It doesn't ignore ALL sensors, it ignores the O2 sensors for feedback until they're hot enough. It still uses coolant temp, TPS, IAT, and possibly MAP/Baro.
1soljaslim5
Well after many days of trying to sort the problem out im still back at square one kindasad.gif im experiencing upon start up sputtering and the car runs rich so i had the spark plugs replaced with double platinum denso and still have not solved the issue i once again cleaned the iscv checked all the hoses nope and i began unplugging sensors and grounded the pins for a new code to pop up which is 22 (coolant temp sensor signal) so now could this be the culprit?
richee3
I'd replace that sucker. Sounds like Bitter nailed it.
1soljaslim5
QUOTE (richee3 @ Dec 4, 2013 - 2:46 AM) *
I'd replace that sucker. Sounds like Bitter nailed it.

any idea where i could possibly get this part??
richee3
Any Toyota dealership will have it. Part number is 89422-22030, per ToyoDIY. Costs about $50.
1soljaslim5
QUOTE (richee3 @ Dec 4, 2013 - 4:34 AM) *
Any Toyota dealership will have it. Part number is 89422-22030, per ToyoDIY. Costs about $50.

Alright sure thing then ill look into this and keep you guys posted thanks for all the help
1soljaslim5
So with all the time and money ive spent im still having the same issue kindasad.gif but after countless threads and looking at njccmd's thread
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=69585
i have come across one thing.

can someone please enlighten me on the sensor located on the intake, i seem to be missing it additionally i have a wire that isnt connected to anything my guess is for that vacuum sensor


but not sure but id like to know is that a major part?is it necessary and if so whats the part number? i also have been looking around for the stock airbox and it seems forgmann has a complete air box up for grabs. still waiting on a reply tho.
richee3
That's a VSV on the intake elbow. It just lets fumes from the charcoal canister into the intake. You should have three small vacuum lines- one going from the throttle body to the fuel pressure regulator, one from the throttle body to the VSV, then one from the VSV to the charcoal canister.
njccmd2002
i mounted mine on the firewall, with a piece of aluminum, but i would not think that would be the cause of your problem?



close up pic



cant find the part number on toyodiy. BTW just went back into memory lane, lol.... looking at my pics..



njccmd2002
ok a little bit more into TOYODIY, I came up with this part number for the beams

90910-12073, surprisingly enough, there is a part number on ebay, from another toyota. looks similar, but not entirely

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-Toyota-Valve...7d4&vxp=mtr
1soljaslim5
cool thanks man but hmmmm well guess ill keep trying but ill get it running perfect soon hopefully still looking for a stock airbox and i also gotta get rid of my cat converter and install a straight pipe but thanks for the help man
njccmd2002
lol, yes u need a stock box.. vincent doggy, and

tis wut i did....

richee3
Unrelated to the cold start issue, what is your current exhaust setup? You don't want it to be too free flowing.

On topic: the VSV wouldn't cause any high idling issues, but if it's not there and your vac lines are leaking, that could cause it.
1soljaslim5
As far as exhaust set up i got the b pipe then the stock cat converter a resonator an 2 1/4 inch piping as far as the vaccum leak well maybe thats whats causing my low idle but then again im not sure but what i do know is that it still smells rich and the idle seem pretty low up until the engine is warm
richee3
Check your vac lines to see if they are hooked up and if so, what they are hooked up to. Did you get a new CTS?

I'm all for catalytic converters and lower emissions but that stock cat has to go. It's too old to be working efficiently and far too restrictive for the BEAMS. I hate exhaust systems on four cylinders but I severely underestimate how badly the BEAMS head needs to breathe. It made a HUGE difference when I replaced my exhaust. If you read my progress thread, I said over and over and over how rich my exhaust smelled. Replaced everything B pipe back and problem solved.
1soljaslim5
yes i did and still i had the same issues and i even reseted the ecu an CEL went back to normal no codes. as for the cat convert i have been trying to get it removed but many shops here in sac dont want to go through with it due to lawsuits and what not in other words they say (No we cant do it sorry) kindasad.gif and as far as the hoses go there arent any slits or cuts to cause it however since i dont have the vsv you mentioned. from what i see im missing hoses and the only hose i have i see it connects from the charcoal canister to the the throttle. and there another hose that connects to the tps
1soljaslim5
just ordered the airbox so now i wait it out and im taking it to santa rosa next week my buddy has a friend whos willing to remove the cat so slow steady progress
1soljaslim5
bump
Batman722
why are you bumping ?
Do you have the stock airbox ? or the vsv you need ?
Still having issues after those are in ?
1soljaslim5
well i bumped just for my thread to get it looked at as far as airbox and vsv i am still waiting on them to arrive have not gotten them installed yet so far the idle is still real low did a tune up on her and now on coldstart it starts fine idles low for a bit and once warm stays at 1k tomorrow im heading out to santa rosa and get the cat removed so little by little.
1soljaslim5
So After long awaited weeks look what i got from UPS today Thank you So much Forgmann!! biggrin.gif

The moment the package was delivered to my house i was so anxious i quickly opened the box to reveal its contents


got the VSV along with the hoses on connected to the vsv the charcoal canister and other from the vsv to the throttle only issue here is that its being squeezed by this container(still learning rolleyes.gif )

i also went ahead an got the plug extended


well got so excited quickly installed it here it is now wooooo lol


Still having that cold start issue car will idle high for a few seconds and then drop and stall once engine is warm however no problem with the OEM airbox i did notice its now super quiet like a Prius it responds better when accelerating no more bogging or jerking.
Once i floor it weeeeeeeeeeeee,
man....... it feels AWESOME!!i drove it out for a test drive and i must say im loving it.The Beams seems to want to continue pulling once you pass 7rpm and does not slow down i remember my 5s would pull hard but once in 3rd gear the fun was over kindasad.gif. but anyways slow progress being made.
njccmd2002
and here one more example how finicky the beams is.
richee3
Yet another testament to the OEM intake. You can read online 100,000 times about how much better it is than all the other intakes but you have to experience it to believe it. As for the VSV, the JDM Celica had give brake fluid reservoir on the other side of the car so it doesn't quite fit in our cars. I simply tucked mine underneath the intake area.

How does your PCV look? Any cracks in any hoses anywhere? How about the inside of the throttle body? I'm wondering if the idle issue isn't a result of a vacuum leak or possibly one of the air ducts clogged between the throttle body and ISCV.

Also, be sure to sign up here and ask these guys. Surely someone there has some relevant experience with a similar issue.

www.mr2.com/forums/forums/127-BEAMS-Owners-Group
1soljaslim5
im trying to upload a vid of how it is now with the stock airbox but it seems photobucket mobile loads it up but once i go to the site on the cpu it doesnt show up? so ill try make another one or wait later see if it finally decides to show up.
1soljaslim5
QUOTE (richee3 @ Dec 28, 2013 - 1:16 AM) *
Yet another testament to the OEM intake. You can read online 100,000 times about how much better it is than all the other intakes but you have to experience it to believe it. As for the VSV, the JDM Celica had give brake fluid reservoir on the other side of the car so it doesn't quite fit in our cars. I simply tucked mine underneath the intake area.

How does your PCV look? Any cracks in any hoses anywhere? How about the inside of the throttle body? I'm wondering if the idle issue isn't a result of a vacuum leak or possibly one of the air ducts clogged between the throttle body and ISCV.

Also, be sure to sign up here and ask these guys. Surely someone there has some relevant experience with a similar issue.

www.mr2.com/forums/forums/127-BEAMS-Owners-Group

Well im using all the parts that i bought from forgmann and all look in way better condition than my throttle hose and maf and hoses so yea its working a bit smoother but yea you're most definitely Right
you gotta try it out to believe it and i honestly can agree with everyone out there that said the stock air box is better now
lesson learned. as for making an account on mr2 forum ill get on it and see what info i can get.
much appreciated with all your help guys.
1soljaslim5
Heres a vid of how the car preforms with the oem airbox and warm engine (my phone sucks with the auto tilting and what not sorry best vid i could get)


As you can see the exhaust is now very quiet like a prius lol and the car now idles at about 700-750 which i would say is pretty normal
Batman722
I still think your IAC is dirty or going.
It's a common thing for our cars.

I didn't notice, what exhaust do you have ? Stock ? custom ?
Bitter
The issue is that the stock airbox likely has some special plastic fins and shapes that affect airflow past the airflow sensor, 7th gen GTS's have some fins that are needed and often omitted in aftermarket intakes. The solution is to cut the stock intake for the plastic section that's needed and stick it inline in the aftermarket intake.

Or it's simply a pipe diameter issue/sensor placement in the pipe. Again, that would be solved by reusing the OEM plastic sensor housing coupled into the aftermarket intake....if you want to cut up a stock intake.
1soljaslim5
QUOTE (Batman722 @ Dec 28, 2013 - 9:22 AM) *
I still think your IAC is dirty or going.
It's a common thing for our cars.

I didn't notice, what exhaust do you have ? Stock ? custom ?

i dont think that would be the case though ive read countless times that it is a common issue but i have a new IAC and as far as the exhaust goes i have a magnaflow exhaust wanted a more quiet stock look but with sound to show for it. im thinking about adjusting the idle screw and see if that helps tho it may not be the case.
Batman722
an entire magnaflow exhaust or just a muffler ?
What size diameter piping is the exhaust ?
lagos
During a cold start, two things need to happen.
1. The idle control valve needs to open pretty much all the way.
2. The car needs more fuel.

If you replaced the idle control valve, check the tubing going to it to make sure it is in no way kinked.

If the problem is with your car not getting enough fuel then either check for vac leaks between the MAF and the engine. Since the car is not MAP based, any little leak could make the ecu inject less fuel. If that checks out, inspect the coolant temp sensor and wiring, since that is what the ecu references to determine that a cold start is happening.
1soljaslim5
QUOTE (Batman722 @ Dec 28, 2013 - 3:30 PM) *
an entire magnaflow exhaust or just a muffler ?
What size diameter piping is the exhaust ?

its just a magnaflow muffler the piping it self is 2 1/4 inch as for the exhaust its a bout 4 inches
richee3
It seems a little redundant but have you checked for codes again to see if anything else has popped up?
1soljaslim5
QUOTE (richee3 @ Dec 28, 2013 - 6:15 PM) *
It seems a little redundant but have you checked for codes again to see if anything else has popped up?

Yea i did i just checked it and flashes continously so im not sure if one of the sensor were to be faulty tho wouldnt the CEl go ON tho?
1soljaslim5
QUOTE (lagos @ Dec 28, 2013 - 4:57 PM) *
During a cold start, two things need to happen.
1. The idle control valve needs to open pretty much all the way.
2. The car needs more fuel.

If you replaced the idle control valve, check the tubing going to it to make sure it is in no way kinked.

If the problem is with your car not getting enough fuel then either check for vac leaks between the MAF and the engine. Since the car is not MAP based, any little leak could make the ecu inject less fuel. If that checks out, inspect the coolant temp sensor and wiring, since that is what the ecu references to determine that a cold start is happening.

well i inspected the hoses no wear and tear no leaks either as for the maf its not the issue here i replaced the coolant temp sensor a while back but regardless of it being new i still had the same issue ive been told in the past my fuel filter might have been the issue but i really think thats not the problem because once the engine is warm it runs fine.
richee3
Constant flashing means no codes, but just because the light isn't on doesn't mean everything is good. The BEAMS only illuminates the light for a few codes, so it's not a bad idea to check it any time you think something is up.

You should probably replace your fuel filter anyway but that isn't the issue. I know it's quite a bit of money but I highly suggest buying a wideband to see what your engine is doing. It could be a faulty FPR, but I'd think that would cause problems after the engine is warmed up as well.
1soljaslim5
Well heres what i have narrowed it down to
ive checked hoses(so no vac leak have taken apart hoses did smoke method no wear n tear so no leak)
Engine Health(as far as compression goes it was in good shape when i bought it and it runs perfectly fine when accelerating and no jerking or bogging)
VVTI soleniod( not the problem I feel it doing its work when i go past 4k from gears 1-4)
Maf sensor(cleaned and even replaced with a better one from a beams)
Fuel wise(since i live here in California ive only seen 91 which is the recommended though i believe it should be 95 ron)
Coolant temp sensor(tried one from a toyota echo 2000 since they are identical all it did was make the temp reading higher)
ECU(as far as it goes all has worked fine i tried a different one and same song and dance)
TPS(tried many from changing to three throttle bodies still not probable issue)
Spark Plugs(changed the iridium ngks which were fine no burns or wet and replaced with double platinum denso)
Idle Air Control Valve (went from cleaning to replacing with a 01 civic one since they are nearly identical its new as well so it works)
Fuel filter(was old and replaced with a new one still not the solution)
Intake air temperature( was suggested i clean it which i did checked its rubber seals no brittle or tears)
Wiring(before i had a bad surge issue but i was due to the iscv not being grounded and wired properly additionally most of the wires werent soldered like they were supposed to as far it goes im still having the wiring looked at maybe i missed something)
with all that said i honestly im thinking its either a gasket or seal from somewhere( ive been told gasket and seals tend to expand with heat when reached at a certain temperature and based on how my car has acted i can somewhat believe it) or its a fuel related issue so next would be to check fuel injectors and fuel pressure regulator as well as fuel pump(from my GT, been told its ok to run it though not sure) with all that said im not sure why my car only acts up during cold start, to be smelling rich and immediately stalling after turning on and for it to run normal once engine has reached a warm temperature which leads me to believe its the two options i have just mention but thats just me after all mentioned
any ideas guys??
njccmd2002
O2 sensor? My car did that when i forgot to conect it.. Stalled sometimes after start
1soljaslim5
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Jan 28, 2014 - 9:00 PM) *
O2 sensor? My car did that when i forgot to conect it.. Stalled sometimes after start

Well ill give it a shot ill buy a wideband O2 and see if it helps
1soljaslim5
Still having the same issues ive been driving the car for about a good 5 months now and still nothing has been solved additionally i went through the trouble of buying the bluetooth OBD2 as well as purchasing the torque pro app as suggested by richochett, put all info on vehicle profile as well as added the additional info to read jdm ecu and it works as far as connecting to bluetooth device and phone but when trying to read the car it gets stuck on (checking model.....) and therefore no data... kindasad.gif im having the worst of luck. on another note ill be taking my car to Josh aka(mister3) since chico raceworks isnt too far from where i live an have it checked out so hopefully i will finally find a solution to my problem
1soljaslim5
Its been a while since i posted about my beams issue and here i am to annoy you guys again sorry by the way but well after going through my checklist changing part after part it narrowed down to either wiring maybe something isnt grounded properly not sure yet and coolant temp sensor after reading through multiple sites on the web of cars with similar issues to my car's symptoms then i found this link http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...03092418AAQXyrS
which based on what i read i makes sense and just today i took out my coolant temp sensor last time i got one from a toyota echo 2001 and all it did was give a higher temp reading on the gauge but well anyways attempting to try a different sensor. well i took out the old sensor and noticed this


looks like the edges are corroded so i got a replacement part from autozone and picked up a temp sensor from a tercel 98 so waiting on my engine to cool down and begin the testing again hopefully now ill finally find the solution to my problem so crossing my fingers here.
1soljaslim5
So today i had another problem with my car i drove inside a garage and turned of my car and i tried turning it back on but my brake pedal got stiff and once i turn on the engine i wont start all i hear is one click and it seems to be comming near the vvti solenoid and fuel injectors i tried wacking the star no luck checked my fuses all were fine as far as battery and terminals they seem fine and im getting power since im able to turn on the lights and radio as well as move roll my windows.
any ideas what i may be??
1soljaslim5
First i want to say thank you to everyone here in 6gc helping me out in troubleshooting my engine and after months of trail and error well i am pleased to announce that the beams is now operating as it should and is no longer having any problems i also hope i didnt annoy you guys too much with constant things ive done and no fix but anyways i am now enjoying it fully biggrin.gif so to the point of what was the issue well it turns out i got the wrong vvti solenoid an additionally it was not getting enough voltage which would explain why it would run fine right after the engine reached a hot temperature so got the wires fixed and solenoid replaced with the correct one and well now no more giving it gas to keep it alive on cold start better
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