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Full Version: no start CEL Code 12 and constant flashing (misfire?)
6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Forced Induction
easternpiro1
Hi all, een having a problem starting my car ever since I got the transmission replaced.

First, the car was giving me a
CEL 12 wiring and connector g2 + signal, STA signal crank position sensor and ECU
14 and 15 wiring connector, ignition coil, ecu

There is also another 14 code listed in the diagostic -wiring and connector, ignition and ecu
Things I've tried:

I've checked all plugs first to make sure there was no significant damage. (Found some on the main harness connector under the fuse box in the engine bay) checked for continuity, seemed fine.

Checked wire going from ECU to crank sensor for continuity, replaced crank sensor to no avail.
I also changed the cam sensor. Car still won't turn over.

We checked for spark and fuel (I'm getting spark and I'm getting fuel as my FPR is reading pressure and in took out injector plug #1 and used a NOID Light.

We also checked for spark and fuel using an old school method by bypassing injectors and putting fuel directly in. The car DID start but ran horribly and cut off shortly after.

Now I have a constant blinking when I pulled codes.

There was NO signal coming from ecu to injector according to Noid light. So it MUST BE ECU? Nope. Replaced ecu same no start but now I'm only getting code 12 and still getting a misfire code (constant blinking)


Does anyone have any helpful suggestions? A bud of mine and I will be tracing wires today but any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


Placham Thanks for the ECU and help so far. I'm sure we can figure this misery out!

easternpiro1
Did some more probing and continuity testing (specifically to b15 b16 and b24 on ecu plugs which go to cam and crank sensors. All is fine. Checked for spark and no spark. Which is weird because I was getting g spark before.... I was getting fuel. Also I'm no longer getting ANY codes after resetting ecu. Idk wtf is going on lol
VavAlephVav
http://bgbonline.celicatech.com/

http://bgbonline.celicatech.com/94_6gmanua...odes%202.2L.pdf


what I did was unplug the 4 wire connector from the dizzy and then use a small piece of wire and some alligator clips to make the connection at the plug attached to the body/frame. then i went to the plug at the ECU, unhooked it and used my continuity tester(beeper) to test each of the pins those four wires of the dizzy go to and see if it was making a connection through to the chasis ground.
old thread with pics here http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=93428&hl=
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthrea...e-14-I-Got-Fire


Code 12 means the dizzy isnt putting out a signal from the cam sensor, Or the Computer isnt reading it, Or the Plug/wires between the two are not making good contact.
Also be sure you have a Ground Wire where the intake manifold is connected to the firewall, the wire harness for the ECU comes out and grounds to the intake manifold and if
there's not a nice fat ground strap on the intake it may act funny.
placham
Yeah no prob... hope u get it sorted,,, text me if u got any other concerns...

FYI his not dissy....4th gen 3SGTE st215 motor same a mine,,, we're COP dissyless ignition, n no resistor box for injectors
I havent been messing with mine in while...knock on wood..
I'll see if I can get to my coils and see if its 4 wire plug diagram only shows 2 wires,,, but on coil it should say - + or E something like that
There should be constant power with key on, and chassis ground at each coil, then trigger wire and think feedback to ecu or something.

Matt

Did u double check all your fuses, not sure how yours is wired if power for injectors and coils goes through a relay but would be a bad idea to check that too,, I had issue on my Silvia on my Rb, relay go wet and from resistance it would get hot and brake contact.
easternpiro1
Thans man! I just realized I didn't mention that I don't have a dizzy. It's a 4th gen. COP




Placham I double checked all fuses and relays and then my bud checked again. Ill have to call Tweak'd performance and ask how it was wired. not sure.

VavAlephVav
...ahh well if you've got it swapped that changes things smile.gif
if you've already checked the cam and crank sensor and the ecu then maybe its in the connector itself. you could try to wiggle things while somebody else cranks the key.
Smaay
do continuity shoots between the sensor and the ECU. ensure your wiring is good, and all your grounds are good.
easternpiro1
Thanks smaay!

I did that and found that I got continuity, however I found my problem. I hope.


I bought some coil packs from bonsai in February or so, because one of my coils went bad. Replaced 2 of them and all was well. While I was quadruple checking grounds etc. I decided to switch out coilpacks from 1&2 cylinder and put them in 3&4, and vice versa.

I started the car, and kept the key turned while pressing the gas pedal it ran horribly and would die if I let off the gas. I switched the coils back and it wouldn't run. I'm hoping this is my problem.


Still dosen t make sense though, why was I getting spark on the 2 other occasions when tested? And why would they malfunction after getting the transmission replaced?

Also the codes 12 14 and 15 never mentioned coils but sensors. I would love to know how this happened so I can explain it in the future if it happens to someone else. I spent $$$$ chasing ghosts

placham
so hows the car doing now, did u get her back running? very curious on results and culprit of issue..........
Smaay
oh, i just saw that you have a 4th gen in there. code 12 might mean something totally different. 4th gen are not ODBI compliant.

another thing if it is the same fault, you have a crank position sensor down by the crank pulley. check that sensor and the wiring. that is probably the most important sensor
easternpiro1
Hey fellas! Thanks placham, car is not running yet but like we talked about earlier it did start as long as I kept my foot on the gas, which to my understanding means weak spark. I ordered new coils (2) from Japan and my friend will send out next week. My plugs were a bit fouled and sooty especially 3 and 4. I haven't been able to actually physically check for spark again by taking them out but I will Saturday. I just find it odd because I was getting spark on the 2 other occasions when we tested.

Oh smaay, I checked for continuity and it worked out fine thanks placham for walking me through that pinout!
easternpiro1
Welp.... ALOT has happened since I last posted...


I will get right to the point first....


MANNY, JEN, STEPH, DUSTIN. I LOVE YOU GUYS. I cant thank you enough. I am in your debt. these 6gc OGs are THE EMBODIMENT of what a car community is supposed to look like.

My car wasnt running. Manny and his wife DROVE FROM MASSACHUSETTS to GET MY CAR, AND TOW IT BACK. wtf.... WHO DOES THAT??!!?!?!??


GOOD FRIENDS is who.


dustin and steph... who opened their home to me when I visited a few years back were there to help at the drop of a hat just as manny has since I joined this site over 10 years ago.


once again... thanks guys for helping me.



As a result of their HARD WORK troubleshooting, kicking ideas back and forth etc. after over a year of the Ninja Turtle 2 not running.



On Easter weekend, IT RISES, AND IT LIVES. (ironic for personal reasons)


If you read the first post you will see that my initial diagnosis indicated wiring connected to the CRANK SENSOR. So I thought all along it was a wiring issue.

PLACHAM.... HELPED SO MUCH through this process as well. He sold me an ECU, gave me ALOT of pointers too.


YOU GUYS WONT BELIEVE that after taking out my harness, buying, A NEW CAM SENSOR, A NEW CRANK SENSOR AND EVEN NEW COILS STRAIGHT FROM TOYOTA JAPAN (thanks to a bud)


IT WAS THE ACTUAL CRANK SENSOR THAT WAS BAD.

And all due to a small guide pin that keeps the crank sensor in line by 300ths of an inch from the trigger wheel on the oil pump pulley.

A DAMN PIN!!! rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif kindasad.gif kindasad.gif kindasad.gif frown.gif frown.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

This has been a learning experience and a HUUUUUGE PAIN IN THE ASS for ALL parties involved (tweak'd (camshaft cam in particular laugh.gif )

I have some apologies to give in particular to the shop that I thought messed my wiring up when replacing trans.


With that being said.....


IM BACK..... let the GOONERY RESUME.




See yall later...Im going to church. I also have some apologies to make there too....
Tigawoods
I think a photoshopped image of your car coming our of a tomb would be appropriate.

So was the Sensor just not fully seated? Adding more distance between it and the crank teeth?
presure2
So....since matt brought this back from the dead...(pun intended..lol) i figure might as well add my part of the info, and what i found...

Dustin, Steff, and myself all checked the wiring on this car, over and over, trying to find some fault, and to our surprize, we couldnt find any.
We got to the point where I was ready to pull the harness out and send it to be looked over and rebuilt!!
fortunately, before I did, I decided that I should at least check the crank sensor, even though Matt had told me that he had replaced it already...
Heres what I found.

Where the Crank Sensor mounts to the Oil Pump housing, there are 2 small "guide pins" that hold the crank sensor in the proper orientation relative to the trigger wheel on the oil pump pully.
without them, the sensor can shift and become misaligned with the trigger wheel, or even worse, contact the trigger wheel.

on Matts car, one of the guide pins was missing, causing the sensor to shift and contact the trigger wheel.

heres a pic showing the damage to the trigger wheel, and the missing guide pin.

Click to view attachment

the sensor out of the car, showing the damage to the sensor

Click to view attachment

a closeup of the trigger wheel damage

Click to view attachment

So, I contacted Martin Vernier on facebook, hes a great source for used gen3 or 4 3sgte parts, and he hooked me up with an oil pump pully and sensor for a good deal, and once i got everything reinstalled, i snapped a pic of the clearance between the sensor and the trigger wheel to give matt an idea of how small the clearance actually is...(its around .030 or so, just FYI)

Click to view attachment

all that time and effort, all caused by one small peice of the puzzle...

Click to view attachment


your welcome matt!!!! laugh.gif
easternpiro1
Lol!! Thanks bruddah!!! laugh.gif



Absolutely friggin BONKERS SMH
Smaay
yep crank sensor.
njccmd2002
so no more crying now, the car is fixed!
easternpiro1
Lol yup! And will be for sale in a few months!
njccmd2002
whattttttttt!
easternpiro1
Yup! Lol time for a lex
njccmd2002
Nooooooo
easternpiro1
Lol I'm in no rush to sell. But its that time
trdproven
PIRO - you forgot you OG too man...
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