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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Engine/Transmission/Maintenance
anon1ski
So I went to change my valve cover gasket and found my seals are all blown out with 165K on the whole car. Haven't noticed oil because I park in on grass 90% of time. So I don't know where to go from here.

It is a stock (mostly) 95 2.2 GT Vert Auto.

What would be my best course of action, have it rebuilt? 3GSTE (or other engine) swap? Trash it and start over? Rebuild it for turbo? I've heard the 2.2 if rebuilt is better than the 3gste if you do it right.

Box
Slow down there, let's not put the carriage before the horse. Which seals are blown out, valve stem?
anon1ski
QUOTE (Box @ May 23, 2017 - 6:46 PM) *
Slow down there, let's not put the carriage before the horse. Which seals are blown out, valve stem?


They said seals. So I'm guessing rear main seal? It's leaking a ton near the back of the engine.
HardHead93
QUOTE (anon1ski @ May 23, 2017 - 4:33 PM) *
So I went to change my valve cover gasket and found my seals are all blown out with 165K on the whole car. Haven't noticed oil because I park in on grass 90% of time. So I don't know where to go from here.

It is a stock (mostly) 95 2.2 GT Vert Auto.

What would be my best course of action, have it rebuilt? 3GSTE (or other engine) swap? Trash it and start over? Rebuild it for turbo? I've heard the 2.2 if rebuilt is better than the 3gste if you do it right.


Speaking from personal experience I would do a swap to a 3sgte. I have tried to turbo the 5sfe and it is too much of a headache. A turbo'ed 5s is like having a race car you need to run a checklist on every time you get ready to drive it. Check out my build thread to see the nightmares I had before I decided to go 3sgte.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=96700
Box
Near the back would be main rear. Thing is though if the engine is in good health otherwise you just need to replace the seal, unless you ran it low on oil and fubared it before finding out it was leaking badly from the rear main seal. If you want more power then just go 3S-GTE or do a 1MZ etc... versus messing with turboing the 5S.
cheela
really depends on your overall budget, plan and goals for it. If you're just looking for a dependable daily driver then either change the seal out and rebuild it or yank the whole thing out and toss another 5s in there. they're a dime a dozen. If not, then this is the perfect time to do a swap or any sort. up to you.
richee3
Just because the rear main seal is leaking doesn't mean the engine is done. It's not a huge job to drop the trans, replace the seal, and throw a new clutch in. If you prefer a swap, that's an option as well, but it's significantly more expensive than simply replacing the seal.
Box
It's an auto, no clutch to be ruined with oil so even easier/cheaper. tongue.gif
anon1ski
Couple things.

Don't have the know how to drop the trans and replace the seal. Would have to pay for that as well.

It was a slow leak then got worse, so it wasn't ran low on oil. (At least not while I've had it).

Sorry for not replying earlier.This thing is becoming more of a hassle than I signed up for lol. Just finding parts is impossible.
anon1ski
Also, just wondering, how is the Caldina 3sgte? Guess its a 4th gen? Can I put one in here? This guy literally up the street from me has had one for sale for months, so If that is a possibility, that would be awesome.

Don't really know what to do with it, but if it fits, I guess i can make it work?
root
Was there still oil in the oil pan / did the dipstick read ok? Did you run the motor with a super low amount of oil and kill it?

Like the others said, bad seals aren't a death sentence, and they can be replaced as long as it wasn't ran with little to no oil. My 7afe has a leaky seal somewhere (I think, doesn't seem to burn any), but I've just been putting in a quart every 500-700 miles and its been ok. Just havn't gotten around to doing a complete diag on the problem.
anon1ski
QUOTE (root @ Jun 7, 2017 - 1:23 PM) *
Was there still oil in the oil pan / did the dipstick read ok? Did you run the motor with a super low amount of oil and kill it?

Like the others said, bad seals aren't a death sentence, and they can be replaced as long as it wasn't ran with little to no oil. My 7afe has a leaky seal somewhere (I think, doesn't seem to burn any), but I've just been putting in a quart every 500-700 miles and its been ok. Just havn't gotten around to doing a complete diag on the problem.


No when i noticed it, it still had oil in it.
root
That's good. Its probably just new seal time. If its a leak near the transmission, it has to be the rear main seal. Might want to look by the crank pulley too just to be sure your front main seal is not a problem.
Box
People have started doing the 4th gen 3S-GTE swap in 6th gen Celicas, want to say a few here have and the information is available. Though paying for an engine and swap would be costly not knowing how to do any of it yourself, but if that's what you ultimately want and this engine is a good deal then no point putting money into the 5S.
anon1ski
QUOTE (Box @ Jun 7, 2017 - 5:51 PM) *
People have started doing the 4th gen 3S-GTE swap in 6th gen Celicas, want to say a few here have and the information is available. Though paying for an engine and swap would be costly not knowing how to do any of it yourself, but if that's what you ultimately want and this engine is a good deal then no point putting money into the 5S.


I mean, installing a new engine and trans has to be easier than rebuilding the 5s and building my own turbo setup correct?

I'm not completely incompetent, I do most of my own work. So I'm not going in blind, but have never swapped motors or trans.
anon1ski
QUOTE (Box @ Jun 7, 2017 - 4:51 PM) *
People have started doing the 4th gen 3S-GTE swap in 6th gen Celicas, want to say a few here have and the information is available. Though paying for an engine and swap would be costly not knowing how to do any of it yourself, but if that's what you ultimately want and this engine is a good deal then no point putting money into the 5S.


Also props on the f body in your sig. That was my life until someone stole my last 4th gen and I moved on to imports lol. 300zx I blew up then this.
HardHead93
QUOTE (anon1ski @ Jun 7, 2017 - 8:46 PM) *
I mean, installing a new engine and trans has to be easier than rebuilding the 5s and building my own turbo setup correct?

I'm not completely incompetent, I do most of my own work. So I'm not going in blind, but have never swapped motors or trans.


I did a Caldina 3sgte swap and I love the way the car runs. Most of the Caldinas come of an auto transmission car so it may work with your current set up. The best place to figure out what you need is to send an e-mail off to PrimeMR2 with your questions. They were really helpful with my build plus they carry all the OEM parts for all generations of the 3sgte. I tried a turbo build and had nothing but problems. I would advise steering clear of a 5s turbo build.
Box
Most would say to go through an engine before installing anyway, but yes would still be easier than trying to rebuild and turbo the 5S.
Box
QUOTE (anon1ski @ Jun 7, 2017 - 8:27 PM) *
Also props on the f body in your sig. That was my life until someone stole my last 4th gen and I moved on to imports lol. 300zx I blew up then this.

Thanks. I like it for the most part, but being so used to Japanese sports cars I hate the solid axle. Oddly enough I've thought about selling it and getting a Z32 300ZX, but it's even harder to find one of them with a hardtop.
anon1ski
QUOTE (HardHead93 @ Jun 7, 2017 - 10:37 PM) *
QUOTE (anon1ski @ Jun 7, 2017 - 8:46 PM) *
I mean, installing a new engine and trans has to be easier than rebuilding the 5s and building my own turbo setup correct?

I'm not completely incompetent, I do most of my own work. So I'm not going in blind, but have never swapped motors or trans.


I did a Caldina 3sgte swap and I love the way the car runs. Most of the Caldinas come of an auto transmission car so it may work with your current set up. The best place to figure out what you need is to send an e-mail off to PrimeMR2 with your questions. They were really helpful with my build plus they carry all the OEM parts for all generations of the 3sgte. I tried a turbo build and had nothing but problems. I would advise steering clear of a 5s turbo build.


So how hard was the Caldina swap? Like i said, there is one less than a mile from my house but with no trans or anything. just engine i believe. I really would rather a 3rd gen, seems easier, especially for a novice like me. I just feel a little stuck in place with this car right now because I know nothing. and it is starting to get expensive already, and its still in **** condition.
anon1ski
QUOTE (Box @ Jun 8, 2017 - 12:14 AM) *
QUOTE (anon1ski @ Jun 7, 2017 - 8:27 PM) *
Also props on the f body in your sig. That was my life until someone stole my last 4th gen and I moved on to imports lol. 300zx I blew up then this.

Thanks. I like it for the most part, but being so used to Japanese sports cars I hate the solid axle. Oddly enough I've thought about selling it and getting a Z32 300ZX, but it's even harder to find one of them with a hardtop.


Mine was 2+0 T-Top NA. Still a beast with that 3.0. So much fun to drive. Would buy another in a heartbeat. I don't like anything with a roof as you can tell lol. Camaros all ttops or convertibles as well. As far as the celica, i Don't need the power of 500 HP so chassis strength is never an issue. Just like a little power, and some pick up. The f-bodys on the other hand, weld the extra supports on, and build em till they break.

300 hp on this celica is where is my max. with right around there or under being a csatisfying goal.
Box
I was probably going to get a N/A since even though the VG30DETT is reliable enough, if anything ever goes it's expensive. That and I really want a hardtop, and all hardtops for export were N/A. I figure it'd be worth trading off some power for handling since I hardly fully use what's there with the Firebird anyway. My thought process in getting the Firebird was then I wouldn't have to touch the engine and would only need to do suspension, but I don't think I'll ever like the solid axle.

300 hp is a nice peak number for a FWD car, would be easy to get with the 4th gen 3S-GTE since they start around 250 hp or so at the flywheel.
HardHead93
QUOTE (anon1ski @ Jun 8, 2017 - 11:15 AM) *
So how hard was the Caldina swap? Like i said, there is one less than a mile from my house but with no trans or anything. just engine i believe. I really would rather a 3rd gen, seems easier, especially for a novice like me. I just feel a little stuck in place with this car right now because I know nothing. and it is starting to get expensive already, and its still in **** condition.


I spent a lot of time d**king around with trying to turbo my 5s and it was pretty easy compared to that. The hardest part is getting the engine out of the car and there is a good instructional video for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHJZ_x0neI

It is a video of taking a 5sfe out of a Camry and it was really helpful for me. After that I sent my wiring off to Wiregap to get done. It made the harness completely plug and play. You may need to pull parts off the 5s to use on the 3sgte so it is a good idea not to get rid of any parts until the build is complete. I would say the most challenging part of the build is the intercooler piping routing, if you chose to go with a front mount, which is a good idea. Also, check all the exhaust manifold studs because the 2 closest to the alternator tend to strip out and it is easy to re-thread with the engine out but a pain in the butt with the engine in the car.

The 4th gen 3sgte is advertised to do 256 hp on 13 psi. You will need to install a boost controller to see those numbers because the factory boost controller does not work with the swap and you will only get spring pressure (7-8 psi). I am going to the dyno tomorrow so I will post hp figures after that.
anon1ski
QUOTE (HardHead93 @ Jun 8, 2017 - 7:35 PM) *
QUOTE (anon1ski @ Jun 8, 2017 - 11:15 AM) *
So how hard was the Caldina swap? Like i said, there is one less than a mile from my house but with no trans or anything. just engine i believe. I really would rather a 3rd gen, seems easier, especially for a novice like me. I just feel a little stuck in place with this car right now because I know nothing. and it is starting to get expensive already, and its still in **** condition.


I spent a lot of time d**king around with trying to turbo my 5s and it was pretty easy compared to that. The hardest part is getting the engine out of the car and there is a good instructional video for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHJZ_x0neI

It is a video of taking a 5sfe out of a Camry and it was really helpful for me. After that I sent my wiring off to Wiregap to get done. It made the harness completely plug and play. You may need to pull parts off the 5s to use on the 3sgte so it is a good idea not to get rid of any parts until the build is complete. I would say the most challenging part of the build is the intercooler piping routing, if you chose to go with a front mount, which is a good idea. Also, check all the exhaust manifold studs because the 2 closest to the alternator tend to strip out and it is easy to re-thread with the engine out but a pain in the butt with the engine in the car.

The 4th gen 3sgte is advertised to do 256 hp on 13 psi. You will need to install a boost controller to see those numbers because the factory boost controller does not work with the swap and you will only get spring pressure (7-8 psi). I am going to the dyno tomorrow so I will post hp figures after that.



what about trans? do i need a special one for the caldina? for some reason every where i search people say "dont do the 4th gen its so hard and not worth it get a 3rd gen." what is so much harder than a 3rd? and is thetre any downside?
HardHead93
The "I don't do 4th gen" statement is probably coming from people who try to do their own wiring. The best thing is to get wiring sent off to PrimeMR2 or Wiregap. As far as it working with an automatic transmission, I do not see why not. My 4th gen came with an automatic transmission flywheel attached to it. I swapped it to a manual flywheel for my car. Like I said before, the experts on 3sgte swaps is PrimeMR2. Send them and e-mail with all your questions and they usually get back to people within 24 hours if it is during the week. You can make a decision once you get all you questions answered from PrimeMR2.
anon1ski
QUOTE (HardHead93 @ Jun 9, 2017 - 10:18 AM) *
The "I don't do 4th gen" statement is probably coming from people who try to do their own wiring. The best thing is to get wiring sent off to PrimeMR2 or Wiregap. As far as it working with an automatic transmission, I do not see why not. My 4th gen came with an automatic transmission flywheel attached to it. I swapped it to a manual flywheel for my car. Like I said before, the experts on 3sgte swaps is PrimeMR2. Send them and e-mail with all your questions and they usually get back to people within 24 hours if it is during the week. You can make a decision once you get all you questions answered from PrimeMR2.



I think i am going to looks for a 3rd gen full swap to buy. If i dont find anything maybe i will do the 4th gen. But i want to go to manual anyway, and most 3rd gens i see for sale come with everything i would need. this 4th gen near me is just the engine. nothing else. that is why the price is nice.

going to try to do it by myself, even though ive never done anything of this scale, but i have to learn somewhere. and unfortunately the only place close to me that really does swaps, at least for our cars, has already said they arent doing any right now because they are booked.
HardHead93
I posted my dyno numbers on my build thread. 238 hp and 233 torque to the wheels running 13 psi. No bad for a 4th gen 3sgte. I probably could have went 14-15 psi and picked up another 10-20 hp but I played it safe. The 4th gen is a very capable motor.
slavie
Hate to be the party pooper, just trying to help you, so here I go:

A 3rd Gen swap, if it comes with a transmission, it will be a all wheel drive transmission which would need to be modified into front wheel drive. Either need a V6 solara/camry transmission parts for blockoff cover and other bits, and semi-custom pas side CV axle, or block off the rwd pickup (this solution is sketchy if not done right, folks have broken things this way). Might be better off to just use V6 solara/camry transmission to begin with, which is what a lot of folks do rather than crack open a transmission to modify (axle situation still applies)

You can also go with S51/54 transmission from 5SFE celica GT - you don't have to worry about custom CV axles or any mounts, but you will need a hybrid 3S/5S clutch/flywheel combo, as 3S and 5S cranks have different hole spacing.

You cannot use your current auto transmission as there will be no computer to control it. 3rd Gen is manual only, and 4th Gen, I don't know anybody who has tried to use 4th gen auto ecu to control A140E transmission from 5SFE. This means you're almost guaranteed to be forced into doing 5spd swap along the process, and need all the swap related parts - shifter, cables, clutch pedal and master cylinder, etc.

I think you'll benefit from doing more research before jumping both feet into the pool, or you run a very good chance of getting overwhelmed and having a project sit for years. Unfortunately, this is all too common, even here on the forum.

Best advice? Break things down into manageable project "stages". Get your car running first, then do a 5spd swap, then do the 3sgte. These three alone are formidable individual projects with plenty of kinks to work out in between. Doing them all at once is a huge, huge undertaking.
I agree with others that your 5SFE is fine just in need to rear main seal, based on what you've said (engine was never ran dry). A shop overblowing a problem because they don't know or don't want to take on a job or want to upcharge is nothing new.

If you don't have the know how/tools/space to do a rear main seal yourself, a relatively simple remove and replace with no customization compared to other tasks discussed here, I do not see an engine swap with wiring and turbo plumbing involved in your future. Sorry, but that's my opinion having done a 5spd swap, a few clutch and RMS jobs myself, among others. To have a shop do a 3sgte swap is not going to be anywhere near cheap, as you'll need a specialty shop. To give you an idea: PrimeMR2 pricing for 4th gen 3sgte swap into mr2 starts at $4000 for basic package including the engine. A celica is going to be even more expensive, you're easily looking at $2500-4000+ in labor and parts cost on top of the engine cost.

Hope this helps.
anon1ski
QUOTE (slavie @ Jun 12, 2017 - 12:29 PM) *
Hate to be the party pooper, just trying to help you, so here I go:

A 3rd Gen swap, if it comes with a transmission, it will be a all wheel drive transmission which would need to be modified into front wheel drive. Either need a V6 solara/camry transmission parts for blockoff cover and other bits, and semi-custom pas side CV axle, or block off the rwd pickup (this solution is sketchy if not done right, folks have broken things this way). Might be better off to just use V6 solara/camry transmission to begin with, which is what a lot of folks do rather than crack open a transmission to modify (axle situation still applies)

You can also go with S51/54 transmission from 5SFE celica GT - you don't have to worry about custom CV axles or any mounts, but you will need a hybrid 3S/5S clutch/flywheel combo, as 3S and 5S cranks have different hole spacing.

You cannot use your current auto transmission as there will be no computer to control it. 3rd Gen is manual only, and 4th Gen, I don't know anybody who has tried to use 4th gen auto ecu to control A140E transmission from 5SFE. This means you're almost guaranteed to be forced into doing 5spd swap along the process, and need all the swap related parts - shifter, cables, clutch pedal and master cylinder, etc.

I think you'll benefit from doing more research before jumping both feet into the pool, or you run a very good chance of getting overwhelmed and having a project sit for years. Unfortunately, this is all too common, even here on the forum.

Best advice? Break things down into manageable project "stages". Get your car running first, then do a 5spd swap, then do the 3sgte. These three alone are formidable individual projects with plenty of kinks to work out in between. Doing them all at once is a huge, huge undertaking.
I agree with others that your 5SFE is fine just in need to rear main seal, based on what you've said (engine was never ran dry). A shop overblowing a problem because they don't know or don't want to take on a job or want to upcharge is nothing new.

If you don't have the know how/tools/space to do a rear main seal yourself, a relatively simple remove and replace with no customization compared to other tasks discussed here, I do not see an engine swap with wiring and turbo plumbing involved in your future. Sorry, but that's my opinion having done a 5spd swap, a few clutch and RMS jobs myself, among others. To have a shop do a 3sgte swap is not going to be anywhere near cheap, as you'll need a specialty shop. To give you an idea: PrimeMR2 pricing for 4th gen 3sgte swap into mr2 starts at $4000 for basic package including the engine. A celica is going to be even more expensive, you're easily looking at $2500-4000+ in labor and parts cost on top of the engine cost.

Hope this helps.


Damn logic and facts getting in my way all the time.

I know its a feat. Luckily I have 2 brand new cars between me and the wife and this car is strictly a luxury. So doing the swap will be a learning experience type of deal. The second someone here said not to turbo the 5sfe, i put blue devil rear mail sealer in ti just to stop the spots in my garage and driveway, which worked, but is probably damaging the engine as we speak. I didn't want to fix that because it is just not worth it, if i am going to keep this car, and actually do some work to it, it is going to be a project with the 3rd gen 3sgte, not just another car i own for no reason. I have enough of them lol.

i DO know about the trans being AWD and will have to switch ti over to just FWD myself. I know this is going to be an undertaking, but after summer ti will sit in the garage ready for anything, instead of being driven, and i can slowly work towards my "release date" of NEXT summer, with everything done. which it needs A LOT.
slavie
Alright - just wanted to give you info upfront, because I know how much it sucks finding out things that are going to set you back AFTER you've started a project. Good luck!
HardHead93
Good luck! When you get stuck ask lots of questions. The people on this forum are very helpful.
anon1ski
QUOTE (HardHead93 @ Jun 12, 2017 - 9:54 PM) *
Good luck! When you get stuck ask lots of questions. The people on this forum are very helpful.


I plan on it. Just have ot get myself an itemized list of the things I need to start. Get all the other stuff then wait for a good deal/time to get the motor. The body still needs a lot so I may do that first. Like i said, when i got it, it was at the end of its road. About to be crushed.
anon1ski
Thanks for all the help guys. Looks like i'll probably be selling it. Really appreciate all the information and input.
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