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DST94
I'm lost guys.

The car / tuner scene doesn't exist for me anymore. It just isn't the same as it used to be. Nobody builds cars for the same reasons Tuners used to build cars and there are so many cheap knockoffs being produced that build quality is low. I don't really understand what's going on. People say that we should "respect all builds" but I just can't understand why I should respect someone who literally cheaps out on everything. I see builds with straight eBay parts lists that look and run like crap. Now I'm not saying not to use eBay, I use eBay for simple stuff. Piping, clamps, wiring, connectors, etc. But remember when people used to roll around with legit wheels, legit performance parts, legit work? Like, cars used to get improved by tuners.... It's like cars are only getting changed nowadays.

Right in the years I'm going to finish my car, it seems like the scene has been long dead. Good thing I built the car for me.
cheela
"Good thing I built the car for me."

just keep remembering that and nothing will ever bother you.
we live in a very sensitive society nowadays and everybody has feelings that can get hurt so easily so same with the car scene. douchebaggery has become a norm and there's no respect when you have to respect all. "EVERYONE GETS A GOLD STAR!" LOL

DST94
QUOTE (cheela @ May 25, 2017 - 6:22 AM) *
"Good thing I built the car for me."

just keep remembering that and nothing will ever bother you.
we live in a very sensitive society nowadays and everybody has feelings that can get hurt so easily so same with the car scene. douchebaggery has become a norm and there's no respect when you have to respect all. "EVERYONE GETS A GOLD STAR!" LOL


That's exactly what I mean, no respect when you have to respect all. That is perfect! It's like the idea of standards offend people... Like oh sorry your XXR curb rashed wheels don't mean a lot to me compared to old boy over there with his stock wheels on legit coilovers. Ya he's stock wheel wise but his car will out corner the **** out of yours!
jordisonjr
"Good thing I built the car for me"

I'm sure the guy who's running knockoff wheels has the exact same mentality. I'm not saying every part should be replica's/knockoffs, but not everyone can justify spending more than half the value of their car on a set of wheels that won't even see the benefit of a light weight wheel.

I get where your coming from, but I can also understand why some people to get "legit" parts at every aspect of their "build"
DST94
QUOTE (jordisonjr @ May 25, 2017 - 6:38 AM) *
"Good thing I built the car for me"

I'm sure the guy who's running knockoff wheels has the exact same mentality. I'm not saying every part should be replica's/knockoffs, but not everyone can justify spending more than half the value of their car on a set of wheels that won't even see the benefit of a light weight wheel.

I get where your coming from, but I can also understand why some people to get "legit" parts at every aspect of their "build"


But that's what I'm talking about, like it feels so much better when you save your money and buy a Quality part that was designed and produced to improve the car, some if the failures I've seen it of knockoff items is down right scary.

Good example, dude was on RPF1s (affordable wheel) and racing up at Laguna Seca when he hit a curb cutting a corner too close, Enkei stood up to the job and was bent to **** but stayed intact and allowed him to limp off the track. Fake wheel vs pothole? Shattered wheel, destroyed suspension, subframe, suspension arms, fender, etc. Is it really worth it? I waited 9 years to buy legit wheels, and even then I bought second hand and am refurbishing them. I'm not rich, but I take my time and plan out my purchases... To me... Saying people can't afford it just says people aren't willing to wait and save.
Box
I feel the same in many regards, some things generic eBay specials are ok like piping and etc... where it really doesn't matter who makes it you're not going to get much of a quality difference. Tires, rims, brakes, and suspension are places you shouldn't cheap out on since a failure in any of them can cause accidents. Which you don't have to buy the most expensive set of rims out there, but buy something safe. Even as far as driveline parts go if it's a critical part to the operation of the vehicle I wouldn't want to cheap out there either.
sandusky1977
Put in the work to build it the way you want it and true enthusiasts will appreciate the little things. I'm big on OEM and Dealer options only, for my vehicles. Nearly every part I've added to one of my Toys is genuine not a reproduction. Motor swaps are upgrades, and any work I put in to them is to make it a better car than it left the factory.

Hell, the vehicle that has taken the most work was converting a 98 4Runner 4x2 in to a 4x4 using a 99. So many more hours than one would think. I'm proud of it more than most of my vehicles and it looks bone stock for the most part.

I'm also at the beginning of three what I consider monster builds, and get where you're coming from.
1994Celica
I see it all the time on the Subaru Facebook page. Idiots buying the cheapest set of coilovers and suspension pieces they can get their hands on. Making their car look terrible and honestly making the F&F days look like art.
block

It's your money, your car, you do you and i'll do me. I respect folks for how they do their car. Some people have money and some don't so eBay is a way for them to start. In a way, cheap is a way to learn.

I've learned to enjoy all cars no matter how they're modded. I look at it like it's an art. It's not what it used to be but it is what it is.
DST94
QUOTE (Box @ May 25, 2017 - 10:47 AM) *
I feel the same in many regards, some things generic eBay specials are ok like piping and etc... where it really doesn't matter who makes it you're not going to get much of a quality difference. Tires, rims, brakes, and suspension are places you shouldn't cheap out on since a failure in any of them can cause accidents. Which you don't have to buy the most expensive set of rims out there, but buy something safe. Even as far as driveline parts go if it's a critical part to the operation of the vehicle I wouldn't want to cheap out there either.


Agreed
DST94
QUOTE (block @ May 25, 2017 - 12:04 PM) *
It's your money, your car, you do you and i'll do me. I respect folks for how they do their car. Some people have money and some don't so eBay is a way for them to start. In a way, cheap is a way to learn.

I've learned to enjoy all cars no matter how they're modded. I look at it like it's an art. It's not what it used to be but it is what it is.


I can't agree, because "art" doesn't mean I throw paint covered sticks at a canvas and then call the marks art. That's ridiculous.

True art has effort and quality and purpose behind it. Not everyone can do it. Not everything is good.

QUOTE (sandusky1977 @ May 25, 2017 - 10:54 AM) *
Put in the work to build it the way you want it and true enthusiasts will appreciate the little things. I'm big on OEM and Dealer options only, for my vehicles. Nearly every part I've added to one of my Toys is genuine not a reproduction. Motor swaps are upgrades, and any work I put in to them is to make it a better car than it left the factory.

Hell, the vehicle that has taken the most work was converting a 98 4Runner 4x2 in to a 4x4 using a 99. So many more hours than one would think. I'm proud of it more than most of my vehicles and it looks bone stock for the most part.

I'm also at the beginning of three what I consider monster builds, and get where you're coming from.


I've only got HKS, Toyota, and TRD on mine. I totally see where you're coming from.


QUOTE (sandusky1977 @ May 25, 2017 - 10:54 AM) *
Put in the work to build it the way you want it and true enthusiasts will appreciate the little things. I'm big on OEM and Dealer options only, for my vehicles. Nearly every part I've added to one of my Toys is genuine not a reproduction. Motor swaps are upgrades, and any work I put in to them is to make it a better car than it left the factory.

Hell, the vehicle that has taken the most work was converting a 98 4Runner 4x2 in to a 4x4 using a 99. So many more hours than one would think. I'm proud of it more than most of my vehicles and it looks bone stock for the most part.

I'm also at the beginning of three what I consider monster builds, and get where you're coming from.


I've only got HKS, Toyota, and TRD on mine. I totally see where you're coming from.



QUOTE (1994Celica @ May 25, 2017 - 11:51 AM) *
I see it all the time on the Subaru Facebook page. Idiots buying the cheapest set of coilovers and suspension pieces they can get their hands on. Making their car look terrible and honestly making the F&F days look like art.


F&F may have been over the top but at least the builds (movie wise) were sick as hell and had good quality and unique designs
msk59
Cheela: Years ago I coined a term I nicknamed FES, not the same as in that 70s show FES or 'Foreign exchange student' but Fragile Ego Syndrome. I used to work in another district office where I had to deal with many team members. I remember how easily some people would get hurt. As a project manager, I had to directly deal with the FES. Your statement reminded me of people with this syndrome.

Unfortunately, lean economic times and uncertainty/insecurity in life causes an overall uneasy feeling about future which makes people jumpy and cling on to whoever show them the highway to heaven.
Tigawoods
QUOTE (block @ May 25, 2017 - 3:04 PM) *
I've learned to enjoy all cars no matter how they're modded. I look at it like it's an art. It's not what it used to be but it is what it is.

This.

Not everyone is willing to go above and beyond for their car. It may be not as worth it for others as it is to some of us.

Its all somewhat subjective.
You cant truly say one car is better than another. Or maybe you can, it doesnt really matter, they arent building the car for you. I always respect the effort, how ever large, small, cheap or expensive. Effort was put in regardless in some facet.

What does one say about a guy that bought some cheap ebay parts and put them on in his parents garage VS a guy who bought expensive parts and had a shop put them on for him?Both made an effort in some way but is it fair to not give the ebay guy any credit for his effort?

Whenever I get the opportunity, I will try to educate (in the least patronizing way possible lol) so that a person might make take more thought when modding in the future, but in the end, they will do what they want to do.


spread knowledge and positivity
Box
But when that effort comes out to cut worn-out springs on blown struts/shocks and they make it a hazard not only to themselves but to others, I think we have to draw the line somewhere. There's nothing wrong with using inexpensive parts that're still of good quality, not everyone can afford or justify the price difference in Megan springs and KYB inserts for $300 vs car specific springs(i.e. Flyin' Miata or Strano) and KONI inserts for $600 much less coil-overs for $1,000-2,000 or more. Of course this goes towards most any aspect of a car.
HectortheRican
Everyone has a vision for their car - an image in your head that when you look back at your car after parking, you're thinking "man, I can't wait 'til I've got her sitting like this".
Whether that look is objectively clean or objectively ricey, doesn't matter. It's your dream/vision and that's respectable.
I do agree with most people though, that whatever your vision is don't cut corners. I don't mean you need to buy $3,000 RAYS wheels, I mean that I won't be respecting your build if you're running cut springs and bald tires.
Cheap, reliable, and sexy is absolutely attainable - it's not as stark as "here's three, pick two". It'll take time, but it can happen. Some people are impatient and cut too many corners - I can't respect that.
cheela
good points from everyone.
I do agree that a build is a piece of artwork, coming from an art background, I will also agree that I HATE when an artist throws paint at a canvas and says, I'm the ****. Like Tiga said, it's about the effort. and I will have to say that its about attitude and passion as well. That for me, is what's missing the most from everyone these days. I see too many people just throw cash at a car and jumping on bandwagons just to get bored and move on the the "next big thing" that's what saddens me. They may have all the best name brand parts on their car but if the passion is missing, I could care less what they've done if they themselves don't really care.
DST94
One of the biggest things for me is pouring my heart and soul into the car and trying my absolute best to buy good quality stuff and get rare cool stuff for my car then go to a car meet and see a bunch of slammed cars on fake wheels with LEDs and stickers, then they look at me like I don't belong there because I'm on stock wheels at stock height... In my head I'm like dude my front right tire has more track time than you AND your car.... It just sucks to remember growing up and going to car meets with my pops and now this is my generations turn.... And they ****ing it up.
richee3
QUOTE (Tigawoods @ May 26, 2017 - 11:05 AM) *
spread knowledge and positivity

No! mad.gif

laugh.gif

I read an article a couple of years ago that gave me new perspective. The author stated that hot rods aren't dead- they're just in the hands of our generation now. When your dad was your age, he probably had a cheap car but it was all he could afford. He probably put some cheap parts on it but it was all he could afford. It probably wasn't the nicest or coolest car around, but he was probably extremely proud of it. As he got older and more successful, he has a nicer car and a better build. Today's generation is doing nothing different- we don't have the "best" cars money can buy, but we're proud of what we have. And we aren't happy with them in stock form so we buy what we can afford, even if it's not the best part out there. Some are built to show, some are built to go. You've seen what your dad and his generation have built as they've gotten older and more successful, but you may ask the old timers about their first cars. Most of them will tell you an embarrassing story about how their first cars were held together with bubble gum and prayers, just like most of the cars we see at car shows these days.

Of course I'm doing a lot of generalizing here, but reading that article did drive home the parallels. Hot rods aren't dead, we just have so many more options today and so much more access than previous generations that we don't even realize the extent that the car scene has evolved.

I see both sides of the argument. I take comfort in knowing my stock wheels won't break the way a set of Rotas might, but I have a couple of friends that don't abuse their cars, ever. They love to go to shows and meets and hang out. They love being in the community and want their car to look the part but they'll literally never see an autocross or a track day, so a set of Volk wheels isn't necessary for them.
Box
QUOTE (DST94 @ May 26, 2017 - 11:04 PM) *
One of the biggest things for me is pouring my heart and soul into the car and trying my absolute best to buy good quality stuff and get rare cool stuff for my car then go to a car meet and see a bunch of slammed cars on fake wheels with LEDs and stickers, then they look at me like I don't belong there because I'm on stock wheels at stock height... In my head I'm like dude my front right tire has more track time than you AND your car.... It just sucks to remember growing up and going to car meets with my pops and now this is my generations turn.... And they ****ing it up.

Who cares what others think, and especially if it looks like they drove their car through the front of an Autozone and instead of just throwing away all the damaged merchandise they left it stuck to their car. I get people asking when I'm going to LS swap or why didn't I buy a LS car, well I don't want a fking LS or a fking LS car. I like how the LT-1 cars look significantly more, and for my driving style I prefer the LT-1 and to me the LT-1 sounds a lot better which is a huge part personally of the allure in having a V8 anyway. The LT-1 is a great engine if you bother taking 30 minutes of your life to read up on it and you have second grade reading comprehension skills. Oh and don't get me started on the sawblade rims hate, I didn't want a 5-spoke like everyone else and their aunt but I wanted something o.e. so I could have a quality set of rims without breaking the bank. I personally think they look good on the car, but seems everyone else is like "Ewww why didn't you just put on some 5-spokes?" rolleyes.gif Oddly enough the import people seem to like them though. Anyhow I got the car for me and the things I do are for me, Hell I'm hard enough to please much less worrying about pleasing everyone else.
njccmd2002
So what if new generations dont appreciate your car. Then its probably not the crowd for you. Lol. Its cunny to see peoples faces while driving. Civic owners cant keep up with me. Mustang douches cant shame me easy. Lol. All they see is a crappy convertible with no badges.

Went to autozone the other day, guy testing my battery notices soemthing odd about the engine. He recognizes it and swears its the same in his car. I replied, almost... this has a manual tranny... he was amazed... praised the car.

Dont look for tuners, they fill find you. Dont try to stand out to people that dont understand. Dont give a calculator to someone that cant read...

Enjoy your car. Remember..... HATERS. gonna HATE.....

Hate typing on celll
DST94
I guess it's not so much about wanting people to enjoy or appreciate my car, it's more of a "the scene is dead to me and now I dunno what to do"

Of course we want our work to be appreciated by people with like ideals and similar opinions... So I guess I'm just saying that the new crowd is water and I'm oil.... I just don't feel connected to them. I wish it was more like the early 00's because at least then not everyone was a car enthusiast... I saw a joke that I thought fit perfectly

It showed pictures of plastidipped emblems, XXRs, a bunch of decals on the back window, and an automatic neon. The caption was " Why yes, I am a car enthusiast " and like.... For real that's all people do and suddenly *vape smoke blows* car enthusiast *dramatic music*

I just think there should be standards and people should be held to them, there is no reason to turn people away but people who aren't motivated or willing to learn and just want to do quick and easy mods for "scene points" really kills the scene.
Bitter
I think you're forgetting that the 'tuner' scene has always been full of ugly cheap ****. APC, underglow, crazy graphix, neon colors, huge wings, etc. The car enthusiast scene however has always been around and will always be around. We aren't tuners, we're enthusiasts. We care about our cars and keep them, tuners are dime a dozen and will blow through 10 cheap trashed out cars in 5 years.
Bitter
Also, don't build your car for someone else, build it for you.
Does anyone ever notice the subtle flow of red accents from the front of my car, through the cabin, to the back of the car? Probably not, but I do and that's all that matters. Do people laugh at my penguin seat cover? Heck yea! Does anyone notice that my short antenna isn't stock? Nope, looks like it belongs like that. Does anyone notice that I've got LED's all over the place? Probably not, looks stock. Do people realize it's a 17 year old car? NEVER! Do I care that no one notices these things, not at all. I do, I like them, I drive it.

I pretty regularly get compliments and 'hey nice car' from totally random people, usually older people too. Customers always say 'oh yea I used to have a Celica' and then tell me all about it, ask me about mine, what year it is (No way, 2000!?), etc. I make mine what I want mine to be and I enjoy it. If someone else likes it too, awesome. If someone else doesn't, that's fine. I'm not going to sit and argue and defend it. I also will try not to trash talk someones car cause they're doing what they want with it, as long as it's not unsafe.

Do I care the front bumper on my daily doesn't match the headlights installed? Nope. Does anyone really notice the 3 inch bixenon HID's at 45W inside the headlights? Probably not (until they're under the cutoff or they get high beamed) Does anyone notice the overpoweringly bright LED's aren't stock? Uh...I hope they notice! Does anyone care I've got a semi-unique audio setup in the daily? Nope. Do I care that no one cares, nope. It's a dumpy old sedan that's almost 20 years old now. But it's mine and I like it.
Bitter
If you're upset that no one is noticing your car then you're doing what you're doing for the wrong reasons. Do what you do and people who appreciate it will appreciate it. If you want all those little ricer kids to tell you what a cool car you have then you have to stoop to their level and you do not want to do that.
DST94
I don't really care what people think about the car, I guess it's more like I want to be around people who share the same passion but also the same build ethic? I dunno haha I'm not sure I agree on your idea of a tuner... I always saw tuners as knowledgeable people who purpose built cars and improved them.
Bitter
Everyone I ever saw that was a self identified as 'tuner' were cheap ugly cars with cheap ugly parts, even when that kind of stuff was in vogue I thought it was nasty.
cheela
knowledge gotta start somewhere. everyone remembers their first oil change they did themselves. was the most daunting task at the time and you move forward from that. some of these kids are just starting or don't know any better. hop onto facebook and watch the MANY MANY questions asked by people on car pages. It's either they get answer from someone just as uneducated or they get the "stop right there, kill yourself" from older more experienced 'tuners'. there are a few in between that will actually give sound advice and that's how people learn to "mod" and not just mod for the sake of modding.

and it really seems like you're totally hanging out with the wrong group of people for you. Just find people that you can related to and appreciates what you appreciate. Start and car club with your buddies and hang out in parking lots that way. Going to car meets and car shows aren't your thing. Hang out at the tracks for track day.
DST94
QUOTE (Bitter @ May 28, 2017 - 9:14 AM) *
Everyone I ever saw that was a self identified as 'tuner' were cheap ugly cars with cheap ugly parts, even when that kind of stuff was in vogue I thought it was nasty.



You seem...... Wait for it.... Bitter.... Heh... Heh....

QUOTE (cheela @ May 28, 2017 - 11:26 AM) *
knowledge gotta start somewhere. everyone remembers their first oil change they did themselves. was the most daunting task at the time and you move forward from that. some of these kids are just starting or don't know any better. hop onto facebook and watch the MANY MANY questions asked by people on car pages. It's either they get answer from someone just as uneducated or they get the "stop right there, kill yourself" from older more experienced 'tuners'. there are a few in between that will actually give sound advice and that's how people learn to "mod" and not just mod for the sake of modding.

and it really seems like you're totally hanging out with the wrong group of people for you. Just find people that you can related to and appreciates what you appreciate. Start and car club with your buddies and hang out in parking lots that way. Going to car meets and car shows aren't your thing. Hang out at the tracks for track day.



Yes oh majestic Cheeeeeeeeeeeeela


Honestly it is too bad that people don't assist younger guys... I mean... It's where we all came from once right?
Box
Something that helps is finding people that like ALL cars, and not just imports or domestics etc... I'm not claiming to be perfect but I'm probably about as unbiased as it gets when it comes to where a car is from or what brand it is, I really don't care so long as the car is cool in some shape or fashion. So a group of people with the same mindset things usually go a lot better. I find the cars&coffee type environments to be the best, get a good mix of American, Japanese, and Euro and most all of them are done nicely. Also what some would call the "ricer" mentality isn't limited to just imports, it happens with domestics and Euros as well. I've noticed it almost as frequently with Euros and domestics are more once in a blue moon. Thing is though butchering your car is nothing new, back in the day our parents' generation was busy putting on spring helpers and air shocks with stupid staggered wheel setups to go with their parts house special air scoop sticking out of their hood to make it look like they had a blown drag car.
Box
That's why I try and help people whenever I can, even when everyone else is like "SEARCH BAR NOOB!" Not everyone had the benefit of having a parent, in my case my mom, to teach them about cars so without having had a parent or older sibling to get you started you're at square one. It's easy to get to a point where just because you know something you expect everyone else to know it too, I think that's where a lot of the problem lies. Most everyone forgets that at some point in the distant past they were just as clueless.
ClevelandGaint
Everything that has been posted so far has been spot on. I can see if from both sides. Being apart of many platforms you can honestly see whats out there. Watching peoples builds are a great past time. I remember with my first celica back when i was 15, i thought i was the coolest because i put a pair cheap tein lowering springs and i spray painted my hood flat black. Back then that was amazing in my eyes. Fast forward 12 years later, my current celica has the proper parts in my eyes that are installed. We all start from some where, we all have embarrassing moments in time which is what is great. I do not want to be apart of scene now a days. I build my vehicles to my liking. I see it from this point of view, do other members and strangers pay for my parts? If not then i could careless what they have to say. When I go to Import face off its great to see builds by others. From budget builds to no expense spared builds. I can not judge. But over all out of my SC, 3000gt, 6gc and my hemi platforms i own, I always like my 6gc people the best. sorry for the rant but its a good question/comment to make about the scenes out there.
DST94
I thought it was funny today, I was updating my mods list on my Celica and it got me thinking about how much I used to dream about what I've done to my Celica and how proud I am of the steps I've taken thus far. I guess that's why I think I'm just sad that there really aren't many to appreciate it... At the same time I'm glad I don't have a mainstream car because it makes my build that much more unique. It's so tough, I want people to appreciate my car, but not build garbage cars themselves, and also be mature enough to have cool meets without getting the cops called. It's just impossible.

I quit


Box
I'm sure I'm not the only one here that appreciates it. Also after owning a variety of cars it doesn't matter what car it is you run into problems with assholes of some sort, I think the Miata drew the most negativity in the shortest amount of time. The Celica seemed to fly under the radar but when it did get comments they were only positive or asking if it was a Supra. The Firebird gets mostly positive comments with "Oh wow it's a stick shift" being the most common, but you get the occasional ignorant that thinks because it's a domestic it can't turn and what have you. Could be worse, could have a Honda. I've noticed you can have a really nice and clean car, with no ricey crap at all, but because it's a Honda people will still give you ****. Same with Mustangs, "Run into any good crowds lately?" There is no universally loved car, build the car for yourself and think of others' appreciation and compliments as the icing on the cake and not the whole cake.
chucho
Naturally this is going to be different area from area. I would have thought you being in Ca you'd be able to find some quality tuners. I haven't been in the tuner scene since I sold my celica. We do have a quality muscle scene here which I enjoy. A lot of stock cars that have a few mods but a lot of muscle that has a lot of time and effort into the cars.

I get where you frustrations are though you remember when the scene locally was better and now that you're ready to participate in the scene the current group of people are not what you experienced with you dad.
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