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d3ath2009
Just wanted to rant about how newer cars are becoming less and less customizable. Honda has done a mid-life refresh of my current car that has a few little odds and ends I would LOVE to have on mine, but such things are impossible because of how stupid auto manufacturers have become. This refresh includes a new, much cleaner layout for the gauge cluster as well as an updated infotainment system. The new cluster looks better, but swapping is not possible due to everything they have routed through it (think new safety features, adaptive cruise, etc.) and forget about trying to update the odometer. The new infotainment, however, is the best upgrade to the whole damn car. It's amazing how something so simple as bringing back a volume knob instead of a stupid sliding feature on a touchscreen (and Apple Car Play) will make you envious. And of course that can no longer be swapped as modern units are coded to the cars computer and VIN. Stupid, stupid, stupid.. Whatever happened to the easiness of swapping out newer parts for newer features without needing a coding expert or dealership to make it work? I fear the golden age of easy customization and upgrading is behind us... Rant over... for now.
Box
We're back to keeping up with the Joneses, back before the 70's cars went through a refresh every year in order to make people want to go and trade in for the new model. Then for some reason they decided it was easier to keep refreshes to every 3-4 years. It's just part of it, with having gone away from a universal standard for radios in most all cars (the Toyobaru twins being the only exception I can think of) you better like what it has from the factory. I don't agree with it, but it's what the en masse seems to want in their cars. Especially now with most cars routing things like climate control and etc... through the infotainment system it's impossible to change any of it. Moral of the story, buy a Toyobaru or something old.
richee3
The radio thing also has to do with theft. How many older cars have had windows busted out and dashes torn apart just so a thief could steal the radio? Modern radios may not be swapped out easily but at least they won’t be stolen either.

I do agree with the OP though. For nearly $40k, my 4Runner came with Entune infotainment and standard sat nav, but no auto headlights. When did navigation supercede auto headlights as standard equipment? To add the feature requires a new dash harness among other things.
Box
Yeah, theft probably comes in as a big part. That and feeling more upscale with an integrated setup. Still, I'd much rather have it like it used to be and be able to replace the stereo since 95% of the time what comes from the factory sucks.

Maybe they thought if you weren't capable of reading a map at least you'd be capable enough to turn on your lights when it's dark?
d3ath2009
I can understand trying to keep theft down, but a simple code used to suffice for that. Its jsut annoying when a manufacturer listens to its customers about what they would want changed/added, then make it incompatible with an earlier version of the same car. That would have been the equivalent of Toyota using something like incompatible headlights between the pre and post facelift on the Celica. (I know, bad example, but its all i can think of after working a long night shift)
njccmd2002
no one is ever happy, too much pink, too little pink, is this going to be another i hate car threads. get the old car you want and modify it. new cars are like washers and dryers. disposable once the warranty expires.

reason, dealer wants it back for repairs. they are in the bussines of making money. and newer generations want washers and dryers. TESLA, hint, hint. try to fix that one.... lol. get you a carburated car while u can....
cheela
I can't say much for new cars. newest car I own is my wife's 05 matrix and even that has enough issues for me to not want anything newer.
other than that I seem to be buying older cars each time and I don't regret those choices.
I can tune my car with a screw driver, no need for a fancy hi-tech computer and gizmos.

but I will have to say we live in a time of planned obsolescence. these makers WANT your car to break down. they want you to need to come back to them only for repairs. they make these cars with the given issues so you can keep coming back to "fix" it. just think of your fancy phones. it's made of $40 worth of material and it can't handle falling from knee height. it's made to break. I could care less for phones, I have a $150 piece of crap and if i break it, it'll make a good shooting target in my backyard. laugh.gif
Box
I dunno, most all cars are fairly reliable these days though with few exceptions. It wasn't all that long ago that certainly wasn't the case. I think most of the deal with new cars is learning how to maintain and take care of the new tech, like direct injection engines and etc... I think for the most part technology progression is good, otherwise the cars of the 90's and early 00's wouldn't have been as good as they are with many of them still running around strong whereas prior a 20 year old car was a cheap piece of junk where no one in their right mind would try to daily it unless it was all they could afford. Sure that's still the case for many, but there are a lot of enthusiast cars of that age being used by choice. I could afford some mid late 00's econobox, but I rather have something from the 90's that's more fun to drive and I doubt the reliability between well maintained examples is really any different.
d3ath2009
Its the little things they used to do that they don't anymore that will make you crazy. My celica didn't come with fog lights, but the harness is completely there and all it took was hooking up the fogs and swapping the multifunction for one with the fog light switch. My newer car is not that simple to do. You want to add a feature like that, then you gotta add all the wiring and everything. Just a PITA anymore.. the only problem with these 20 yr old econoboxes is that they are starting to get so high mileage and age on em that they are becoming more expensive to maintain than they are worth. Oil leaks, oil burning, rust, worn out suspension and steering, years of neglect from previous owners, its all adding up and taking its toll on the easy to mod and very reliable cars of the yesteryears...
jordisonjr
QUOTE (d3ath2009 @ Dec 5, 2017 - 8:44 PM) *
Its the little things they used to do that they don't anymore that will make you crazy. My celica didn't come with fog lights, but the harness is completely there and all it took was hooking up the fogs and swapping the multifunction for one with the fog light switch. My newer car is not that simple to do. You want to add a feature like that, then you gotta add all the wiring and everything. Just a PITA anymore.. the only problem with these 20 yr old econoboxes is that they are starting to get so high mileage and age on em that they are becoming more expensive to maintain than they are worth. Oil leaks, oil burning, rust, worn out suspension and steering, years of neglect from previous owners, its all adding up and taking its toll on the easy to mod and very reliable cars of the yesteryears...

That's interesting, because my 95 didn't have fog lights, and it wasn't wired for them either. The only thing that was there was the holes in the crash bar for the mounting brackets. Everything else was up to me to sort out.
Box
'94-95 North American cars never had fog lights as an option, so it'd make sense they'd go through the effort to not have it on those cars destined for over here. My car didn't have the harness either.
Bitter
I left the door open on my Mazda last night, the body module timed out the dome light and kept me from having a dead battery this morning (just kidding, it's LED and would run for DAYS before the battery was dead). Sometimes computers are nice to have. Certainly they can do some neat stuff like use sensors from other systems to do new stuff with just some lines of code. Parking sensors double as blind spot sensors, rain sense wipers turn your head lights on automatically when you're driving, etc. Sometimes those things are nice to have, but they do suck when they break.
njccmd2002
QUOTE (d3ath2009 @ Dec 5, 2017 - 6:44 PM) *
Its the little things they used to do that they don't anymore that will make you crazy. My celica didn't come with fog lights, but the harness is completely there and all it took was hooking up the fogs and swapping the multifunction for one with the fog light switch. My newer car is not that simple to do. You want to add a feature like that, then you gotta add all the wiring and everything. Just a PITA anymore.. the only problem with these 20 yr old econoboxes is that they are starting to get so high mileage and age on em that they are becoming more expensive to maintain than they are worth. Oil leaks, oil burning, rust, worn out suspension and steering, years of neglect from previous owners, its all adding up and taking its toll on the easy to mod and very reliable cars of the yesteryears...



no, its not hard if you know what to do. i refreshed my whole front suspension, with new bushings, and new bearings, and tie rods. then i slapped in a newer engine. hoping to last few years.

fix all the problems at once. the car will work as promised.
bloodMoney
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Dec 7, 2017 - 9:08 AM) *
no, its not hard if you know what to do. i refreshed my whole front suspension, with new bushings, and new bearings, and tie rods. then i slapped in a newer engine. hoping to last few years.

fix all the problems at once. the car will work as promised.


I second this. As long as there is no rot or accident/frame damage, any car can be repaired to near new condition.
njccmd2002
QUOTE (bloodMoney @ Dec 7, 2017 - 9:39 AM) *
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Dec 7, 2017 - 9:08 AM) *
no, its not hard if you know what to do. i refreshed my whole front suspension, with new bushings, and new bearings, and tie rods. then i slapped in a newer engine. hoping to last few years.

fix all the problems at once. the car will work as promised.


I second this. As long as there is no rot or accident/frame damage, any car can be repaired to near new condition.



well, if you like to fix rust like me, any car can be fixed.... unless the damage is super duper severe...
Box
Short of being sent through a crusher or shredder or blown up, or anything that renders it unrecognizable as a car it can be saved. Which I know domestics aren't your thing, but you'd probably find the show Graveyard Carz interesting seeing the cars they've saved that at first look you'd swear it'd never see the light of day as a restored car.
bloodMoney
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Dec 10, 2017 - 12:15 AM) *
well, if you like to fix rust like me, any car can be fixed.... unless the damage is super duper severe...


We all know you're a glutten for punishment, so you don't count. tongue.gif
d3ath2009
Oh these cars can definitely be saved, but at what point do you stop throwing money at a car thats seen years of neglect and just move on to something newer? I love my celica even though it could use a lot of work, but I also dont daily it anymore. Some of these cheap 90's jap cars are getting to the point that the value is so low, it cant be justified to keep sinking money into them.. What started out as a rant on how modern cars have become impossible to mod (at least in comparison to the extent of cars from 20 yrs ago) has somehow turned into a discussion about how any car can be saved as long as the unibody is still sound. Things like changing out a stereo now require a specialized scan tool and online registration through a manufacturer database to be done at your local rapist er, dealership. yes, some of these older cars are worth saving, but if one were to buy a winter beater, at what point would you just say "screw it, im not fixing this new problem bc ive already thrown $xxx at this car and its not worth that".. the progression of this thread has taken a few interesting turns.
cheela
It's not about the worth of the car though. Any of our 6gcs are worth $2000-5000 on a GOOD day but we all know that we've poured more than 3x that into it and we're never getting any of that back. It's about the passion and being an enthusiast.

Also, if you think of it this way, cars, new or old will cost you some form of time or money.
new cars - unless you're a mafia member with a briefcase full of $$$ you're taking a loan out for it and that loan means payments of $300-$400/month in exchange for a car that is ZERO maintenance for some years. You hop in and drive, no time wasted\
old cars - you can probably cash out and drive off the lot with it, no car payments but you will have to spend say a few hundred or so here and there for general wear and tear of parts and some days in the garage replacing whatever breaks.

I for one like living with as little debt as possible. I have 5 cars, no car payments and when something breaks I can fix it at my leisure.
d3ath2009
My problems with the older econoboxes come when things break faster than I can get the time or afford to fix them. Between myself and my wife, we have 6 cars. None of which are owed anything on and the newest of which is a 2015 Honda. My celica leaks/burns too much oil to be feasible as a daily anymore (plus the oil making its way onto the pass side rotor makes it unsafe in the rain). Her cobalt is.. well, a cobalt (i despise working on that thing because they made something so simple as changing a thermostat almost impossible without removing half the wiring harness). Then theres the winter beater '94 civic that has yet to be proven. bought it for cheap and have put more than what we paid for the thing into neglected maintenance undoing things that went bed when somebody half-assedly lowered it. Finally with the 2 projects. One of which is a do it whenever, the other more of a "I really need to get that one on the road". '68 Impala and '83 Yota pickup.. 10 year old cars are cheap enough to pickup and usually fairly reliable, but even then they start to fit into that area where you cant do **** with them because of how complicated the electronics have become.
Box
If you're going to buy a "new car" the best way is to do is 2-3 years old and certified so it carries over the warranty, so then the first owner took the biggest depreciation hit but you still get a fairly new car with warranty.

Thing is though with older cars if you buy a good example of a car that's known to be reliable it'll just be wear and tear stuff, yeah that'll probably come soon unless the previous owner already took care of it but unless it's something ultra rare or odd maintenance parts are cheap. So spending $5K on a really nice 20 year old car with 100K or less miles on it, and if you have to spend $1K on tires, suspension, brakes, etc... you'll still come out ahead in the long run.
d3ath2009
20 year old car with 100k miles laugh.gif Most around here are well over the 200k mile mark by now. Anything with 100k or less is less than 10 years old anymore.
Box
My almost 22 year old car is right under 120K, so they're out there. I think if you could get under 150K being 20+ years old you'd still be doing ok for the most part.
bloodMoney
You just need to look outside of your area.

I searched for 8 months for my LS430. Locally, they were going for $14k with +120k miles.

I picked mine up in Tampa, FROM A DEALER, for $14k with 58k miles.

It was one of the best automotive moves I've ever made.
Bitter
If it's not the million miles LS, no care.
narly_charley
My next grocery getter will be a used Lexus once I retire one of the two that I have. I've been so happy with my ES330.
bloodMoney
QUOTE (Bitter @ Dec 12, 2017 - 2:23 PM) *
If it's not the million miles LS, no care.


I'm working on it getting there Jordan. Calm down.
Bitter
Needs a couple turbos to get there faster. laugh.gif


I do have one new car complaint, STOP ****ING USING ****TY PLASTIC IN CONTACT WITH HOT ****ING COOLANT. Why and how some car makers have plastic cooling system parts that last for ever (cough toyota/honda) and everyone else can't seem to get it right is beyond me. 1ZZ's running around with 500,000 miles and plastic t-stat housings and 2ZZ's running around with 200,000 miles and plastic water pumps while VW/BMW/Ford/GM/etc have plastic cooling system parts that literally crumble apart at 100K or under. Is it their coolant formulation? Is it the type of plastic used? I don't know and they don't seem to care.
Box
Hmm, the only plastic in my cooling system is the radiator tanks and it's doing a lot better job of holding up than any Japanese radiators of the same time. The radiator in my brother's Miata is newer and has a little less miles on it and it's already dried out and cracked, yet mine still looks perfectly fine and it gets a lot hotter under the hood of the Firebird. I think it's the type of plastic used, some are more heat and chemical resistant than others. I guess most everyone decided to follow BMW's model set forth with the E36 where the entire cooling system needs replaced every 60-100K miles.
VavAlephVav
I'd say if you're going to buy a new car, well buy another Toyota silly tongue.gif

I just got a 2014 Corolla Le and its a freakin beauty. LED headlights, back up cam and a touch screen radio but not the silly things i don't want like auto lights, or lane departure BS.
2ZR-FE with a CVT and it feels as roomy as a Caddy compared to the Celica.
You can go as fast as you want on the highway and the CVT will still adjust down so that the engine speed is 2k rpm, and you're getting 40mpg.
I'm gonna put another 200K miles on this thing. Toyota Corolla, that's all the warranty I need.

Oh What a Feeling!
1994Celica
My next car will be a brand new Toyota. I plan on getting a TRD PRO Tacoma when I pay down my student debt.
njccmd2002
my next car will be a ford, so it will guzzle gas and nickle and dime me to death....
Box
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Dec 27, 2017 - 10:16 AM) *
my next car will be a ford, so it will guzzle gas and nickle and dime me to death....

You don't even like domestics, but if you were to get one it should have a V8 and be RWD. Anything else is anywhere from sketchy to straight up terrible. Also preferably a GM, out of the three they seem to be the best.

My next car will be old and is yet to be decided. Or maybe my leg will regain feeling and control and then I won't have to be bothered.
njccmd2002
my next car is actually a supra, 1981. got it yesterday.

Started to part out today. bought for 500 bucks, will make a few bucks out of it, got the famous rear end, that some guys have paid up to 1000 bucks lol
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