6G Celicas Forums

I do like those mirrors...wonder why Toyota moved away from them? They seem more advanced from a production standpoint than the 6g mirrors...but then maybe I just answered my own question.

Yeah, I forgot about lowering; would certainly do that as well for performance and economy (and looks too...check all three boxes!) And I'm back to thinking about compression. I'll have to do some research as to whether increasing stock compression necessitates any changes to the ECU. If not, it would just be a cost/benefit analysis of potential power/MPG gains vs. perpetually switching to more expensive gasoline.

Oh, and another question....has anyone ever found a way to cut down on wind noise? I think that's mainly the reason I can't hold a conversation at highway speed without having a sore throat the next day. I'm a bit suspicious of those wind deflectors, and imagine they could increase drag anyway. Maybe just properly sealing the window and doors would do the trick.

I'd certainly be willing to do some eco-modding, insomuch as it will be a compliment to the other mods. Namely, those modifications that increase overall performance and fuel economy. The most attractive ones would be:

-Weight reduction (obviously...but not if it increases cabin noise)
-Advance ignition timing - didn't know this helped MPG, but apparently it does at low RPMs
-Lightweight wheels
-ScanGauge MPG display
-Smaller/ more aerodynamic mirrors

Honestly with these changes alone I'm confident I'd get at least 40mpg highway.

By the by, I ran seafoam through my 328i and changed oil, changed driving habits a bit and MPG seems to have gone up considerably. I can easily get 30mpg highway, which is a decent amount more than I was getting.

Actually, after doing some research, I'm on the fence about a lightweight flywheel. Being that I would prioritize comfort over performance, I'm concerned that the potential detriments to driveability outweigh performance benefits.
How much does a stock flywheel weigh? If I could get something that's maybe 75% of that I'd consider it. Having the stock flywheel skimmed isn't an option since I'd be perpetually concerned about its balance and failing.

Yes. That would be my one lamentation, and the reason I'm still terrified to pass. Which I hope to in some part rectify through a more responsive throttle and drive line. If I can downshift, get revs up quickly with a lightweight flywheel and transfer that power through lightweight axles (still need to get a quote on cf drive shafts) and wheels, I'm hoping that would be sufficient...after modest power additions to the engine in the form of exhaust and ignition advance.

Well...the project may be a bit of a ways away, but I might as well start pulling the engine to rebuild as soon as it gets warm enough to do so. I'd have to decide on internals though...all stock or slight modifications? Lightweight rods are where I'm leaning if anything.

Yeah, I understand completely. That's what's cool about swaps; you take a car that you already like and make it better in a way that best suits your own preferences. I agree that the black top is awesome in it's power/displacement, and if it were more readily available I'd consider it.


In the end, this will be my daily, and therefore be driven at an average speed of 25mph in all reality considering slowing down for stops, traffic, etc. I never got the appeal of high output engines (be they high displacement or turbo) in an environment were you constantly feel limited. I'm sure it's different in other parts of the country (and certainly world), but I would much rather have a less powerful engine and able to use all or most of its potential most of the time than have a more powerful engine and have to use a minimum of it's potential most of the time.
Even in highway driving, once up to speed it's all fairly static. At that point I'm much more concerned with MPG and smoothness.



Exactly, and this is the most important as far as I'm concerned. Getting the most out of a modest engine by means of good suspension, brake and dynamics certainly has its own appeal.

Very true, but there is a difference:
4A (Black top): 165 PS (121 kW) at 7,800 rpm with 16.5 kg·m (162 N·m) of torque at 5,600 rpm
7A (1995) : 110 hp (82 kW) at 5600 rpm and 115 lb·ft (156 N·m) at 2800 rpm

At least with the 7A torque peaks at a reasonable RPM, and really isn't that much less than the black top (assuming I could even find one). At this point I think it's more or less subjective. Both engines are reliable and efficient, but how one defines 'fun' or 'engaging' is just preference on where the torque comes in. Hitting 'power' (such as it is in the 7a) midway through the rev range to me is much more engaging than dragging it out to redline and constantly trying to keep it there.

Also, thank you for the gearing breakdown, that's very helpful to see it displayed in a comparative way like that. If a 6 speed wouldn't get any better MPG then, may not be worth the trouble.

^ Yeah, I realize now that I misread your initial post. I've been reading so much about the 7a-ge lately that my mind just assumed that's what you meant.

Swapping in the whole 4age seems like the better option than mixing the two engines for sure. Finding a black top would be tough though, and probably not cheap. VVT would be fun, however... and if fuel economy is that good... I have some thinking to do.

This would work with the stock ECU?


Yes, I've been pondering the ol' 7age route, but I have my concerns about compromising reliability. Ideally I'd stick with the stock ECU, mostly because I don't know any trustworthy tuning shops in my area, and certainly don't have the experience to do it myself.

Also, I've been doing some reading on transmission swaps, but the information I'm seeing is inconclusive. The idea of putting a c60 in sounds a bit appealing, given the extra gear for highway driving. But it seems like it's still an open debate as to whether the 6 speed helps fuel economy over the 5 speed in the 7a, given that the 7a might not have enough power to make the most of the extra gear. The topic I was reading kind of left me hanging in terms of getting an answer.

Yeah, my motor mounts were probably just shot, that's why I would get shaking at idle. I guess some of that is just inevitable from an inline 4 though.

So I've also been thinking about engine internals. I'd love to have the 7a rebuilt with OEM parts, but are there slightly better options available? The big objective would be to reduce inertial resistance in the engine, but I'd be concerned about compromising reliability. I've heard only good things about Wiseco pistons. If anyone has experience with lighter than stock pistons, I'd love to hear about it to see if it would be worth exploring further. I want to keep stock compression, so may not be worth changing?

Also, I hear the 7a's power is inherently limited by the restrictions in the head design. That being the case, would any exploration into throttle body upgrades be viable, or ultimately useless?

Not the motor mounts right? That would be a big priority of mine, as in my experience the 7a tends to shake a lot at idle. What are the best motor/transmission mounts?

Also, is there such a thing as functional aero for the 6gc? I'd probably end up removing the spoiler, assuming that it only increases drag and does little to improve handling.

Excellent input all.


Does this have a negative impact on ride comfort?

Also, you mentioned headers, which I agree with. I've heard it's a good idea to advance ignition timing after installing them. Thoughts?

BonzaiCelica, that's an awesome list...can't believe I've never seen it before in the forums.

Two more questions though:

Is there any potential benefit of a port and polish for the 7a head? I've heard it doesn't really matter given the design of the head, but I have to imagine it would at least do something.

How much returns could one expect to gain by trying to mess with the weight distribution of the car? Or, maybe put another way, are there potential drawbacks of removing too much weight in one particular location?

Those seats are nice, and I love the direct fit. I'd certainly remove the rear seats completely; nobody I know is small enough to fit in them anyway.

Question on radiators:

What are the benefits of upgrading to a higher spec radiator? I can see if it is required for track use where extra cooling is needed for the extra engine loads, but if driving the car in normal situations, is there a tangible reason to upgrade (other than the weight savings)?

What I'm wondering is if it will ultimately increase fuel economy or not. Performance radiators claim to allow the engine to run at cooler temperatures, but weren't the stock radiators designed to let the engine run at an ideal temperature in the first place?

EDIT:

After doing some research, I don't think a performance radiator would help fuel economy, and could actually hurt it. If the computer senses that the engine is running at a temperature lower than default, it may compensate by making the AFR more rich in an attempt to bring temperature up. Probably best to stick with stock on this one I'd imagine.

Awesome, thank you for the input.

Good to know the ST and GT are the same suspension-wise, that will help greatly in finding parts. I know that as far as suspension goes, there is always a trade-off between comfort and performance, and my priority is towards comfort, so you're probably right with the KYB's.

As far as interior goes, are there lighter and more comfortable alternatives to stock seats?

After looking around, I'm starting to entertain the idea of having parts fabricated since there's an understandable lack of performance products for the 7a drivetrain. I'm looking to reduce unsprung weight as much as possible, as well as anything that rotates. I've started looking up companies that fabricate carbon fiber axles, but I wonder if that would be worth the cost... Any aluminum options?

I recently bought an e46 328i, which is now my daily, and decided to store my 95 ST. I did maintenance and suspension work to the 328, and was struck by how much more expensive (needlessly I believe) BMW parts are than Toyota. And I have to say, for as much love as the e46 chassis gets, I honestly feel like the AT200 is the better car to drive.

Anyway, since storing the Celi, I've been constantly thinking about a project for it (and missing its excellent fuel economy), and I was looking for some input. I should say, though, that I wouldn't likely get started on any such project for at least a year from now, likely longer.

So the philosophy of the build would be to maintain the reliability and fuel economy of the 7a, while increasing long distance driving comfort and maximizing engine power delivery through driveline and suspension improvements. Basically, in the same vein that the BRZ/FRS was designed to make the most out of a relatively low powered engine through intelligent overall car design. The emphasis is on a comfortable, fuel efficient and reliable car for driving long distances, while always having the potential to be a 'driver's' car.

I have a few ideas currently, such as:

-Lightweight driveline components, wherever possible. Are these available for the 7a? I see flywheels for the GT, but so far nothing for ST.
-Underdrive pulleys
-Lightweight wheels/ sticky tires.
-Weight reduction where possible, but not in compromising comfort or increasing road noise. Feasible?
-Lightweight exhaust
-4 wheel disc brake conversion
-Suspension upgrades. Would certainly welcome suggestions on this.
-Cooling system upgrades (better efficiency)

And more, but I'll leave it at that for now. Other than additional comments, I'd also like to know if anyone has suggestions on where to look for parts? I've done a fair bit of searching and referenced a few sticky's, but it's still hard to find parts for an ST. For 7a specific parts, I suppose I can look at Corolla sources, but for suspension and other parts I'm at a loss.

Finally, I've been wondering if it would be possible to swap a 7a into a GT body? I assume yes. I feel like the GT is more amenable to performance suspension and braking mods.

Any input is very welcome, thank you for reading!

Great advice, thank you. I have a pass-through socket set, I think I'll give that a try. If that fails, I'm sure I'll find a way to remove it.

Also, since I'm reusing old exhaust parts I thought I'd clean with a strong degreaser and then cover them up with some exhaust grade rustoleum. Cheap way to do it, but I really only need the parts to make it through another year at most.

Now I get it...I was under the assumption that the sensor was welded onto the flange. If it's just threaded into the flange then looks like it's just a straight conversion from a 95 to 96 exhaust. Thank you very much for the help. Will the sensor just take a regular deep socket, or I assume a ratcheting gear wrench will also take care of it?

Are you sure the O2 sensor will fit both setups? I don't think the OBDI sensor has any threading to fit the OBDII style exhaust.

That's fantastic information. So when you say no resonator or cat, you mean as part of the manifold? That is, the 95 models have an extra cat attached to the manifold before the downpipe?

Therefore, if I use an OBDII manifold and downpipe from a 96+, it will fit perfectly with the rest of the stock exhaust?

If it's the screw-in type, then I know the fit is going to be different than what I currently have on, and I don't know if I'd be able to just swap out individual parts, or if I'd have to swap the whole exhaust system over to a '96. I worry about the compatibility since it appears that while the 94 and 95 model years share one exhaust setup, it is in fact different for the 96 and 97 models.

What type of downstream O2 sensor is on the exhaust? Is it a screw-in type? I noticed the exhaust setup for 95 and 96 can be slightly different, even if they're both 7a's .

Sent a PM, please check.

As the topic suggests, I'm looking to pick up some gently used stock exhaust components for my 95 ST. It's getting pretty noisy, but I don't know how much longer I'll keep it stock, so I'm just looking for some cheap replacement parts to hold the exhaust together for a year.

I'm looking specifically for the front flex pipe and cat, but I'll also be open to other components as well if you'd rather sell them as a set.

I'm located in northern Indiana, but can pick up anywhere in Chicagoland, SW Michigan, central Indiana. I'll also consider paying for shipping.

Thanks!

Edit: It seems not all 6gc's have the same exhaust setup, so if possible I'm only looking for parts from 94 or 95 STs.

Still looking, in case anyone else has one for sale.

Smaay, did you happen to see my PM? I'm still interested in your header, and I made you an offer. Never heard back though, maybe it got overlooked?

As per the title, I'm looking to buy headers and a downpipe for the 7a. I'm looking for a complete bolt on replacement that's already fit for the Celica's exhaust.
I'm in northern Indiana. Let's make a deal!