6G Celicas Forums

thanks guys

sorry if I came across all stiff and limey - i'm a little under the weather and was feeling a bit down - kidney stone = ruptured kidney and a JJ stent shoved in my abdomen + pain killers = 'why have i not been noticed'

Kwanza - excellent stuff man.


much appreciated

I'd like your opinions regarding nitrous on the 7afe or 3sfe generation 6 celica.

good and bad.

many thanks

Karl

ruddy hell - stupid me - I've just looked at the Engine/Transmission/Performance forum and noticed a sticky for FE turbo.

sorry for any offence - again - I should have looked properly instead of barging into threads in the first place. my bad.


cheers

many thanks

I will PM kwaza

If I can offer any specific 3SGTE information, i'll be glad to help - I am highly informed and have stage one experience and am now building a stage 3 set up to around 350 max BHP with revision 2 series 3SGTE - stock internals.

my email address is celica@fsmail.net and i'm happy to advise and discuss, any one willing to offer any FE info by email will be hugely thanked.

cheers

Guys and Gals

I want to learn more about FE modifying - specificaly generation 6.

No many people in the UK modify the Gen 6 FE with FI and I'm genuinely interested - and I presumed coming to a forum which deals with such modifications could be the place to learn.

However, my last posts on these threads went completely ignored.

Can I please be given a straight answer to the thread title as its a little off putting, and if i'm not welcome i'll sling my hook.

these are the threads http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...71&#entry296771
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...69&#entry296769
- or is it more a case of my interupting a thread?

I am a member of the celica community and do not understand why I am being seemingly ignored? my posts are skipped past as if i'm on the 'ignore user' list of those following the threads.

I mean no offence.

Regards

Karl.

hey andy, i'm just over the borders.

sorry to hear about the gearbox, they can be a pain when the synchros begin slipping. whats the diagnosis/reccomendations?

see ya around

i was under the impression that the block internals are lightweight by design allready, and this helps quick rpm response and aids, in addition to the cam design, a smooth torque curve in the power band right up to peak power.

using a turbo just makes excessive heat and not just charge temps - coolant and oil will absorb heat too.

i'd like to know more about FE and FI..

This subject is of great interest to me, not just in terms of turbo, but in terms of forced induction in general for the FE and what that means to the internal design capacities in the head.

Oil blowing out the seals - ineficient thermal efficiencey causing excessive cylinder heat, causing excessive blow by positively pressurising the crankcase. Is the turbo water cooled and how are you lubricating the turbo bearings. Which method of PCV are you guys using?

My understanding of the FE head - (i'm here to learn not to ponitificate, so if i get my theories wrong, pleases help me out)

The FE heads were designed to have performance whilst being economical and meet emmissions standards. the narrow cams and lightweight internals help a quick rpm response, torque is smoothly distributed throughout the power band. The FE's are smooth engines, they like smooth increases of power.

These engines must not be confused with the 4EFTE, or the likes of a 4EFHE as they both have more aggressive cam profiles. The engines are designed to perform from a high performance point of view, rather than increased economy. Although the FHE is still an economy engine in principal, toyota's attempts to make the FE heads with more kick.

The GE series created by yamaha, are built to higher tolerances, can adapt to sharp changes in rpm, with the actual work being done in the head not hampered by the excessive heats and fatigue's this could cause the FE, because the head components are stronger by design.

Using a Turbo, if set up properly, will bring in peak torque earlier in the rev range, the amount of power in the power band will rise, torque will increase, i theorise that the stock smooth torque curve will be hampered by steps and dips, on and off boost.

Peak power in the rev range will also move closer to ecu rev limiter.

Running at 5psi will have it's issues, mainly getting the mass flow and charge temps right - thermal efficiency is the key.

trying to run any higher than that will negate the inbuilt characteristics and design limits of the head components and will cause eventual failure.

If i've missed anything, or if i've got my understanding wrong, i'd appreciate being shown me errors and why.

And for anybody willing to discuss this further, what effect would you suspose nitrous will have on the 7AFE, 50hp.

regards

Carlos

but that explains a FE powered convertible for the USA/Canada.
UK missed out on the gen 5 convertible because it was too expensive to strengthen it to UK spec and the gen 4 convertible didnt sell as many units as toyota had hoped.

The UK 6gc convertible is 3sge powered - it is either strengthened to meet uk regulations or the chassis is strong enough as it is with only a few modifcations like the USA/C version.

I guess the only people who can tell me for sure will be ACS.

thats a great thread.

enjoyed reading the tech info.

Which book is the diagram in? can you give me the ISBN ?

I'm thinking ACS did further strengthening, the windscreen pillars have to act as a roll bar. ??

thanks goes to Katy aka Coughdrop, 6gc convertible owner from Celica Club UK

Toyota Press Release 18th Oct 1994;
The Cab's body is based on the GT Coupe, a model not sold in Europe........ The conversion work on the car is engineered by the specialist American company ASC, with which Toyota has worked for around ten years. The hood is completely new, and designed for easier operation than the model it replaces (which was not marketed in the UK). It features .......

Under the bonnet.....blah blah.... Torque is 137lb ft at 4,800rpm, and is maintained at high revs, with a flat torque curve. Top speed is 139mph, and 60mph comes up in just 7.9 seconds...(diff to Uncle Bobs figures)...... it goes on...........

that means that the Gen 4 USA and South Pacific version, all gen 5 and gen 6 where all made by ACS.



I gotta try and contact them and see if i can find out what was done to the chassis.

at any stage in the developement of a project like this there will always be for and against arguments, and whilst all are a considered - i believe it would be easier retaining the gt4 and adding to it, it would be much harder adding to the convertible chassis to make it awd.

once the gt4 chassis is strengthened, the fabrication on the back end wouldnt be a great feat to have it take the convertible - in fact the convertible doesnt have much of a rear bulk head to copy. only manual and electric/hydraulic reclining soft tops with plastic rear windows have the rear bulk head, cars with glass windows in the soft top have to retract in to the trunk space instead of lying on a parcel shelf, so it will have strengthening of course but easier to copy.

I would estimate this project would take me 18 months on my own from taking delivery of the two stock cars to completion, however research wont be finsished until around August this year, i would obviously have the final spraying carried out by a professional body shop as i'm not a perfect spray painter.

that means that the project would be complete end of 2006 or beginning of 2007 by which time the 6GcGT4 will be over 10 years old and the GT4 as a marque will be celebrating its 21st Anniversary.

if i did this it would be a custom project to launch a customising and modification performance company. I would probably keep the car for at least 2 years after which time it would either be sold or kept as a show room piece.

anyhew, thanks again for all the replies, if you have any more angles for this just holler, I am grateful for any input.

but the ecu will be telling the fueling the charge is warmer than it actualy is, you need to deactivate that or figure it in somehow.

a st202 convertible will be a donor car.

yeah the chassis can be rigged up here in the uk, i'm trying to understand how the gt4 will handle with the diplacement of weight, roof removed and extra strengthening, it would be planted to the ground from what i can gather.

anyone good with the weight displacement of the st205?

I also wish to open a custom shop too and was hoping this project could be used to launch the company in the 2006 season, a 350bhp Toyota Celica GT4 Convertible would get a lot of attention, for wrong and right reasons - publicity is publicity and i'm allready active within the celica modding community in the UK and word spreads. I have corporate membership at CCUK as i'm researching as well as being a member

that looked fun, how much boost you pressing and which turbo?

yay, tis cool. why consider a new car, that one looks good, i like the blacked out windows.

I have two toyota red celica's, the reds a bitch in the sun aint it.

i have eibach springs on my 185 and its a good drop - yours looks better as you have bigger wheels - R those 17's?

yay, ive seen a guy's gen 4 in Ozz with roll bars like that.

ive found by hunting through the many magazine articles;

the gen 4, consider that was in 1986-87

"The car begins as a coupe in japan, a certain amount of strengthening to maintain torsional rigidity is added to an accpetable level to give the strength needed with the roof removed, all done in the factory in japan by toyota.

It is then shipped to The Voll Company of Wurzburg, Northern Bavaria - Germany, who complete the strengthening required."

in essence they attended to;

Screen Pillars, rear bulk head, front scuttle, sills and doors.

I cant find any info on The Voll Company anywhere so i assume the gen 6 was either done by Baur, Webasto or Pininfarina or some other firm on the mainland.

the problem lies in not knowing what they did exactly to the coupe which was to be used for the convertible.

it would definately mean stripping the entire body of the ST205, possibly lifting the engine aswell.

It would be apparent if the st202c was also lightly stripped in order to see where the strengthening is, use the existing rear bulk head and window pillars and transfer them to the ST205 along with any other panels or pillars, including the doors. then weld the chassis with steel plates and brackets to copy the convertible - retaining its awd strength - how would that drive though - would it be safe, thats the main factor.

i agree, sleeper would be better.

like the collour coded cam cover.

I have two of those engines, its a 2nd rev from what i can tell

yeah I know that. st205 is liftback, st202 vert is coupe.

well i just had it on good authority that the gen 6 convertible arrived in the respective market place as a coupe and was then converted by a 3rd party, at least the USA version was it seems.

So perhaps the gen 6 verts are like the gen 4 in that respect.

Hey i used to take chinook helicopters apart and used to fabricate airframe assembly's for the Ministry of Defence so a little Celica Trunk should be a doddle, just a different metal is all.

thanks for all the replys guys, its hard to get info in the UK as we dont have the coupe version which would be better to compare a convertible with obviously.

i'm sure the floor pan and chassis is different for the coupe and liftback.

ive decided to write to Toyoat GB PLC.

more ideas more than welcome.

cheers

no, its not swapping the 3sgte and awd into the convertible, its chopping the top off the st205 and fitting the roof to it. so the strength would already be in the st205 chassis for twisting and a mid section roll cage would be used.

am i not being clear?????????

i'm staying at a friends in May for the Japfest UK track day - i'll look at her st202 convertible when i'm there.

sorry, in the UK a convertible reclining roof can also be called the hood.

get a grinder and take the roof off the st205 right down to the bottom of the small side window, chop off the door frame around the window , take off the trunk door.

modify the body work and chassis to take the reclining roof and mechanism from a st202 convertible including the windscreen pillars and surround.

belive me, plenty of cars are converted to rag tops.

weight can be reduced but overall wont be that much heavier - i reckon within 100kg's.

This project would be a show car, and a fast convertible to boot - the worlds first GT4 convertible.

A fast car doesnt need a roof and i have obviously considered chassis strengthening and roll bar etc - that is the purpose of the thread - to research chassis differences.

I understand all the comments.

This has never been attempted before, would be the worlds first conversion.

Yes, plenty of st202 convertibles or celica convertibles for that matter running 3sgte engine swaps, bleh.

but i think my point is being misunderstood.

1. take a st205. cut off the roof, adapt the body to take the st202 convertible hood, adapt to take trunk lid etc - strengthen the chasiss.

there would be no chasiss strength issue as it would be strengthened were necessary, it would have a mid section roll bar as well as strengthened windscreen pillars adapted from the st202, the suspension would also be modified. the rear seats would be removed for extra strengthening and a ice install added.

i'm not talking a cut and shut, this would all be done properly.

However - what i need to know is how is the stock st202 convertible chasiss strenghtened.

does anyone know where the strengthening points are?

what is the difference between st205 and st202 coupe floor pan?

i have a st162 convertible.

but i'm asking about a st202 convertible being robbed - chopping the top off and strengthening the chassis on a st205.

putting 350bhp to the front wheels in a st202 isnt worth it - it has to be foremost a gt4, a convertible secondarily. the awd isnt worth sacrificing for ease of an engine swap although i have seen it done. retaining awd, modifying suspension and chassis strengthening makes for an altogether better package. now that the prices are dropping it is within reach financialy

afaik the only difference between the st202 convertible and the st202 coupe is a strengthened windscreen pillar and rear strut mounts, but i dont know how different the chassis and floor pan is between the st205 and st202 coupe - that would be a start in finding out the convertible modifications.