6G Celicas Forums

I know a company in Quebec Canada who have done this kind of conversion for a Honda S2K :

https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-powere...s-quarter-mile/

I know a lot of labor went into such a conversion. I know that they sell Tesla parts (motors, batteries, charging port, etc) so people like you can use these in their own conversion.

Here's the company website : https://ingenext.ca/pages/engineering-services

Hi,

I did a MS3+MS3X install on a ST215 engine in my ST184 a few years ago. Here's the success story. I don't have the car anymore, but I can answer your questions if you have some.


http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.ph...t=3sgte#p275017

Have a good day!

Sam

About this, even if the bolt pattern seems different because the number of holes on the 4th gen exhaust manifold isn't the same as the 3rd gen, you can still bolt a 3rd gen exhaust manifold on a 4th gen head. So, by definition, the bolt pattern is the same. The 4th gen exhaust manifold isn't using all the available studs on the head (especially the top left, upper one)

As for the turbo naming, it is now a convention (at least on the 3SGTE-related forums) that the 3rd gen is a CT20b and the 4th gen is the CT15b. So, I think it would be wise to modify your first post about the turbo name.

Have a good day!

Sam

Here's a place where you can find a 3rd gen exhaust flange : http://www.huxracing.com/#!mkii_flanges/ca4z

What is the size/specs/brand of this turbo?

Sam

Yeah, I forgot, it's also used for overboost protection (overboost fuel cut). This is why you can simply disconnect the vacuum line from this MAP sensor and no more overboost fuel cut on a gen 2.

Sam

The MAP sensor on the 2nd gen is for the OEM boost gauge only. It's not part of the main fueling of the ECU. So, arguing about this is pointless on the OP subject.

Sam

Playing with the voltage of the fuel pump (reducing it) has no impact on the fuel injected into the engine. The fuel pressure is still regulated by the FPR. The flow of the fuel pump at low speed is still high enough to feed all the 4 injectors. The only reason why there is this "dual fuel pump speed relay" is to remove some strain on the fuel pump when full flow isn't required (idle, cruise, low load). The fuel pump will last longer in this case. Also, the fuel pump noise will be reduced at 9V and this is good for the driver.

But I don't think that fuel pump life (200k+ miles) or fuel pump noise at idle is relevant for a tuned and modded car. So, feel free to bypass this fuel pump resistor pack and run the fuel pump in full speed all the time.

Not even need for a manual ECU. I used an auto ECU on my swap and I was using a S53 tranny and all went well. No CEL or anything like that.

Sam

Here's how it should be :

87a = Blue w/ black stripe
87 = Blue w/ white stripe
85 = Green w/ red stripe
86 = Blue w/ orange stripe
30 = Blue w/ orange stripe

Sam

I think I made a mistake. On the gen4 wiring, the IACV RSC pin is sent to ground (pin #3 on the IACV connector (brown wire)). The RSO pin (pin #1 on the IACV connector (black wire)) goes to the ECU. On the 4th gen ECU, it goes to pin #18 of the 31 pins ECU connector. On the gen3 ECU, the RSO pin is pin #10 of the 26 pins ECU connector.

The 4th gen injectors are high impedance, 3rd gen are low impedance. If you want to use the 4th gen injectors and 3rd gen ECU, simply bypass the injector resistor box. I would use the 4th gen injectors and fuel rail.

For the IACV, if you use the 3rd gen ECU and the 4th gen IACV, you will need to send the pin RSO to ground, not to the RSO pin of the ECU as the 4th gen IACV do not act the same as the 3rd gen one. Maybe you can swap the 4th gen IACV for the 3rd gen one, don't know.

Sam

Why COP should require more amps than distributor? It shouldn't. Each setup requires the same number of coil charge/discharge for a given RPM. The only difference is that the coil charge duty is splitted to 4 different coils. This mean that each coil has more time to cool down between each charge/discharge event and this lead to less wear/coil change. The total energy drawn (power/amps) is the same between distributor and COP.

I'm not sure the gen4 alt is bigger because of the COP, who know, maybe the Caldina has more body electrical features than a Celica.

Sam

You need to understand that a full standalone tuning includes a lot of things other than fuel and timing :

-idle control
-warm up control
-cranking/startup control
-Accel/Decel control
-Etc...

A lot of these things can be tuned without the need of a dyno. You need to understand completely the Standalone ECU you are using along with the software if you want ot do it yourself. If you don't want to mess with all of it, send your car to a tuner and pay the price.

The only need for the dyno is to find power. You can find power mostly by playing with the ignition table. You can also find some power by leaning the AFR target at high RPM (around 12:1 AFR). This is where the dyno shine. For all the other things, you can do them on the street/in your garage.

Based on my tuning experience, it took around 3-4 hours to fully tune the ignition table (from 2000 RPM to 7500 RPM). The fuel table didn't need much tuning because I were able to tune it pretty nicely on the street (thanks to my wideband AFR sensor and the Megasquirt Tunerstudio VEAL software). The rate was 150$/hr for the tuner and the dyno (Dynapack 2WD).

My huge advice for the guys that are looking for a tuner is : ask them what kind of dyno they have : inertia or load-bearing. If you only want a WOT full power dyno number, than an inertia dyno can do the job. But if you want to tune part-throttle (this is where you can gain some fuel efficiency/MPG), you really need a load-bearing dyno.

A street-tuned car won't necessary blow his engine unless there is something clearly wrong with the parameters inside the ECU. Usually, you use a retarded igntion timing table and maybe a richer than it needs to be AFR target table, just to be safe. The engine will only lack some power and the fuel efficiency won't be as high as it should be, but at least you will be able to drive your car.

Sam

A lot of the engine gaskets are the same between the gen3 and the gen4. From memory, the main difference is the valve cover gasket, all others from the gen3 should work on the gen4.

Sam

Sorry, I didn't understand it this way the first time, my mistake. Still, you can try to find a used ST20X gauge cluster and swap the coolant gauge only.

Sam

I still don't understand why you want to do all this when all you need is a tach adaptor (like the one you tried to build in the other thread) and a new coolant sender unit. For the coolant sender unit, did you use the third wire in the ST215 coolant sensor connector? If so, then this is your problem. You need to use your ST20X 1-wire coolant temp sender. Simply drill and tap a hole into the ST215 water outlet and install the 1-wire coolant sender from your ST20X previous engine and feed the wire all the way to your coolant gauge. Your speedo should work if you are using the ST20X tranny/speed sensor.

Anyway, this is how I did it in my swap (ST184 to ST215) and all the gauges worked perfectly.

Sam

I have only one question : WHY???

I do not see any advantage using the ST215 comb meter. Your ST20X one display the same info : fuel level, coolant temp, RPM, speed. To me, you will be changing 4 quarters for 1 dollar. Not worth it.

Sam

Build your own like this one : http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Ex...re.htm#tachoout (go to the "High voltage" diagram)

You will only need a 2N5551 transistor, an automotive relay coil and a 1K resistor. Use your Autronic tacho output. Just make sure that you remove the small "contact lever" inside the relay unless you want that annoying relay clicking sound each time your Autronic send a tach pulse.

Sam

Closed loop is when the ECU adjust the fueling based on the O2 sensor feedback. This happen at idle and cruising state on a warmed up engine. At higher load/RPM, the engine is in open loop because it's not using the O2 sensor feedback for his fueling calculation. He's basing the fueling on the internal fuel map (RPM vs load).

Closed loop is a good thing. As lagos pointed out, boucing AFR between 14 and 15 is totally normal at idle and cruising. When boosting or at high RPM you should see around 11-12 AFR on your gauge (assuming you have a wideband AFR gauge).

Sam

To have the pictures on ToyoDIY, you need to be a registered user on their website. Do it, it takes only 1 minute and you have acces to all the diagrams. Really useful!

Sam

Lagos is right on this one. The test you've done is useless. At free-revving, there isn't enough exhaust air flow to drive the turbine at a high enough RPM to build boost on the compressor side. Also, a turbo isn't a positive displacement pump. Unlike a roots supercharger where there is always the same volume of air forced into the supercharger, it's not because a compressor is doing a revolution that a certain amount of air will be force into the compressor outlet. It takes a lot of turbo RPM to build boost o the compressor outlet side.

I can't beleive you have not ruled out this problem yet. I'm not saying that you didn't try hard enough, you certainly did. But I'm sure you missed something really basic. A turbocharger isn't something that is really complicated. I suggest you to go back to the base. Do a boost pressure test from the turbo compressor. Be sure to block off the IAC inlet. Verify that you can get at least 30 PSI in this test.

The other test is to verify that the wastegate stay shut and that all the exhaust airflow actually pass through the turbine.

Then, physically verify that turning the turbine result into a compressor revolution and make sure that the shaft is turning freely. Verify that the turbine wheel is in OK shape (no bent/broken blades).

If all those points are ruled out, there is no physical reason for this turbo to not boost.

Are you sure your boost gauge is accurate and correctly connected to the intake manifold. It should read about -19 inHG at idle, 0 psi when the engine is off. Verify if it is correctly displaying a boost event using a mityvac or compressed air (be sure to use a pressure regulator and set it at around 25 PSI).

Do not give up!

Sam

You want the IAT/MAT sensor mounted as close to the intake valve as possible, but you do not want it to be heat soaked when idling. There is a compromise to be done. I suppose that Toyota was using the Air Intake Temp sensor (located in the air cleaner) when heat soaked conditions were met and when the MAT sensor wasn't giving the real temp value. Using two sensors was a way to go around this problem. Unfortunately, a lot (if not all) of standalone ECU can't calculate fuel needs using two different IAT/MAT sensors.

Also, because compressing air cause a raise in intake temp, you want the intake air temp sensor mounted somewhere between the outlet of the intercooler and the intake valve. You said you have mounted it in the air intake cleaner which isn't really a good idea because you do not have any way to know the real temp of the air entering the engine.

In my ST215 swap, I didn't use the 3rd wire in the ST215 coolant temp sensor to drive the coolant temp gauge. Instead, I've use the original ST184 (in my case) coolant temp sender to the gauge.

A broken coolant sensor should set a check engine code. Enter in diagnosis mode by sending the pin TC of the ECU to ground and see if the check engine light is giving any code (assuming you have connected the pin W of the ECU to the check engine light in the dash).

A wideband AFR sensor should be another good investment to see if your car is running excessively rich in normal cruise condition.

I'm sorry, but the info you got was wrong. Do you still have the source of this info? I didn't want to offend you. I simply wanted to make this clear. Again, you need a 3bar MAP sensor. A gen 3 should work. But do not try to use some generic 3bar MAP sensor as the 0-5V scale might not be exactly the same as the ST215 one and this will make the ECU fuel calculation wrong.

Check on mr2oc or some other forums in the For Sell section, I've seen some used gen3 MAP sensor there.

Sam

gen3 has a 3bar MAP sensor.
gen4 has a 3bar MAP sensor, but it is physically slightly different than the gen3 one because it's bolted on the intake manifold instead of the firewall.

You asked for another MAP sensor that you could use to replace your ST215 one. I've said you could use the ST205 one (gen3) because it has the same scale, so the ECU will read the pressure correctly. What is the problem here?

You need to understand what a MAP sensor really measure. It measure the Absolute Pressure inside the Manifold. It can measure from 0PSI absolute (-14.7 PSI vaccum or -1bar in relative pressure speaking) to 43.5 PSI absolute (29 PSI boost or 2 bar in relative pressure speaking). So, this is a 3bar sensor. I agree with you that it can measure only 2bar in relative pressure, but this is not the full scale of the sensor.