6G Celicas Forums

Have never done it before, but I plan on visiting local auto junkyards very soon to try to find a steering knuckle to replace the one I have that has bent ears. I'm looking for two things: advice on using auto junkyards from you experts, such as how to know the part was not involved in a collision if it has already been removed (and yeah, I'm a little scared of the dog), and I need to know what vehicles used the same knuckle as my manual 94 Celica ST Coup (1.8L) w/o ABS. I know it's the same for all 94-99 Celicas, but are there any others that used the same part?

The Toyota part number is 43211-29015.

Would very much appreciate getting advice.

TIA

Wouldn't you need extreme heat to bend ductile Iron? do you have pics of the bend?

I can't help with the first question (telling if the part was collision damaged) other than to say look at the exterior of the car and judge if the surrounding area looks like it's been seriously damaged; if so, then the parts in that area are likely bad - or stressed at the least.

As the second part, unfortunately, only 6th gen Celicas use our knuckles - there's no other USDM Toyota/etc. that has the same front knuckles.

Ok to get in the yard you pay a buck. No torches allowed, bring all the tools you need. No one under 16 and no sandals.

The yards have warranty, they will mark the part, and you can re turn it.

Easiest way to see a good part, is to see where the car was hit. If it was wrecked on the front, high likelyhoood if the rear less likely.

Also check while part is on. Check the calipers and rotors, if they see good, then ears must be fine. See the control arm from the steering link, if not bent, then ok.

For the bearing, well u have to change anyhow...

That's sad. . . that only 6th gen Celicas use our knuckles. I thought maybe Lexus? Well, at least its the same on all Celicas from 1994-1999, so I should be able to find one.

Your suggested approach is kind of how I was wanting to go about obtaining the knuckle from a junkyard. That's where my head was yesterday when I looked on-line for local yards. Turns out, there were far more local yards that employed "mechanics" to disembowel used vehicle so they could have 'inventories' of parts, than yards that let you wander down to the actual cars. But without taking a part off personally, I don't know how I could know the history of the part.

TX with much appreciation. Good advice.

Q: "control arm from the steering link" Are you thinking of the 'tie rod" being bent? Or the "stabilizer bar link" from the "lower suspension arm" (control arm) being bent? Or the "lower control arm" being bent? Or were you generalizing to the whole right suspension assembly, just look for anything that looks damaged?

I am almost certain (since I know it has been done before) that if I tried I could use heat (as you are suggesting) to bend the ears back so they align the caliper mounting bracket with the rotor, even though this part is said to be cast iron ('said' by whom I do not know; perhaps I initially made that assumption and it was reinforced?). Another 'it has been said' is that the common wisdom says "Cast Iron Doesn't Bend." But until you made your statement, I had not heard anyone say it was 'ductile.' Actually, I've only heard the opposite, namely that cast iron does not have a "Yield" specification because no materials testing can show at which point of any bend a part made of cast iron might just break, snap.

Your statement lead me to Wikipedia where I did find some interesting and related information:

"Ductile iron, also known as ductile cast iron, nodular cast iron, spheroidal graphite iron, spherulitic graphite cast iron[1] and SG iron, is a type of cast iron invented in 1943 by Keith Millis.[2] While most varieties of cast iron are brittle, ductile iron has much more impact and fatigue resistance, due to its nodular graphite inclusions." and

"Ductile iron is not a single material but is part of a group of materials which can be produced to have a wide range of properties through control of the microstructure. The common defining characteristic of this group of materials is the shape of the graphite. In ductile irons, the graphite is in the form of nodules rather than flakes as it is in grey iron. The sharp shape of the flakes of graphite create stress concentration points within the metal matrix and the rounded shape of the nodules less so, thus inhibiting the creation of cracks and providing the enhanced ductility that gives the alloy its name." and

"In materials science, ductility is a solid material's ability to deform under tensile stress; this is often characterized by the material's ability to be stretched into a wire. Malleability, a similar property, is a material's ability to deform under compressive stress; this is often characterized by the material's ability to form a thin sheet by hammering or rolling. Both of these mechanical properties are aspects of plasticity, the extent to which a solid material can be plastically deformed without fracture."

I did not know about ductile cast iron prior to reading your comment! All you have to do now is prove to me that Toyota steering knuckles are made of this type of cast iron and I might switch my conclusions (and since it was invented in 1943, it's possible), however, until I know for certain what metal these knuckles are made of I am compelled to default to my prior personal theories, which include:

Most times a piece of cast iron is bent, it just unbends when the stresses are released. There are many considerations one must deal with when working with cast iron, far more than I first thought, and many of the issues I have tried to discuss on the threads I posted about my current brake rebuilding project. If interested, search for topics started by Langing. There you will find at least six examples from around the net where people reported bent ears on steering knuckles, pretty much debunking the myth that cast iron doesn't bend, unless the Toyota steering knuckle isn't made of cast iron the likes of which most people are familiar, which is precisely what you implied.

However, all that said, being conservative in the positive sense, the uncertainty presented by the facts I have uncovered concerning cast iron lead me to (justifiably) fear using a knuckle that has once been bent, and to believe that for this critical safety part, I need to either get a new one or find an old one which I know has not been subjected to the forces of a collision. Imagine travelling along at 80 mph and having to slam on your breaks, and since the front brakes provide about 2/3rds of the stopping forces, the ears on your right front steering knuckle, which normally support those forces with ease, in this case happen to break along fracture lines produced on the ears back when you bent (with sudden impact) and unbent (using heat) them. The caliper mounting bracket comes loose of course, while the rotor is spinning at the same speed of the tires. What happens next seems to me. . .

There is also among my postings a link to a site where people who are expert metal workers discuss "bending" of cast iron. It's an interesting thread to read. My take away is that whatever crystal-like micro-structure exists inside cast iron is much unlike other metals (namely it is non-ductile), and it can make sudden and unexpected rearrangements when stressed laterally, usually causing it to crack apart like a brick would if laid across two supports lengthwise and forced downward at its mid-point. I think it is probably reasonable to claim that cast iron doesn't like being bent.

And there are other 'sudden rearrangements' of its micro-structure that do let the cast iron bend. For example, there are reports of extremely heavy metal working machines placed on uneven surfaces for a number of years, some of which show signs of minute bending that somehow becomes part of the large cast iron piece such that it does not snap back to square when moved to a level surface.

As to photos of the ears that show the 'bending' I tried several times to capture that in a beautiful pic so I could show it around, but all photos I took required explanation since the bending didn't show up well, probably since I was doing it myself, and it is not all that much of a bend. It is just enough of a bend to cause a brand new rotor to crash with the side of the caliper mounting bracket, but not enough for the older, much thinner old rotor to crash with the mounting bracket, so until I began this project I didn't even know it was bent. It was, let us say, hidden damage from when my wife struck a curb with the right front wheel. If I do get a good photo I will come back and post it here.

Sorry for the long answer cause basically I believe you are correct I just do not know what actual metal is being used in the Toyota knuckles and don't know how to go about finding out.

If you're looking for a junkyard where you do the work check LKQ Self-Service in Durham - they may have a Celica on the lot.

Otherwise, if you're up for a drive, there are Pull-a-Parts in Winston-Salem and Charlotte; I'll check my P-A-P tomorrow to see if the '95 they have has it's RH steering knuckle still and if so I'd be willing to meet halfway to deliver it.

long indeed ... did you change your wheel hub or bearing?

Wow, Keiri, that's the nicest offer I've had all day long.

It's such a nice offer, I would almost take you up on it. . . except, then I wouldn't have the pleasure (adventure) of taking the knuckle off myself.

Seriously, you seem to know what you are doing, and that's the kind of person I was hoping to attract. Even better, you're living in Charlotte! My grandparents lived there, so I spent many weekends with them growing up, then lived in Charlotte several years before moving to Durham. I've got a sister living in Charlotte, two brothers living in Greensboro, where my parents raised us, and another brother in Chapel Hill. Last night that brother agreed to meet me and go to LKQ in Durham as our first try (when he is available), since he once went there himself, and it's so close. Voila, you have my life's story. . .

I haven't called any of those places yet. That's partly why I started this thread, cause I have never done this before and need some immoral support to get myself KICK-started. So, sure, if you don't mind, call P-A-P in Charlotte and let me know if they have one (undelivered ). If I can't find something here, that's where I would likely go after Winston Salem. I guess maybe I need to place a couple of phone calls, huh?

Thanks again for your extremely kind (Southern) gesture.




Not on the front. I did change out the bearings on the rear wheels. And when I get the new knuckle I will change that bearing out also.

Shorter?

1. That Toyota part number doesn't look up to anything, bad number?
2. There's a split, 93-95 and 95+.

43211 KNUCKLE, STEERING, RH
43211-20260 1 $276.21
43211-20270 W(ABS) (09/1993 - 03/1995) 1 $319.06
43211-20271 W(ABS) (04/1995 - ) 1 $303.60

43212 KNUCKLE, STEERING, LH
43212-20220 1 $276.21
43212-20230 W(ABS) (09/1993 - 03/1995) 1 $319.06
43212-20231 W(ABS) (04/1995 - ) 1 $303.60

I don't know what the difference is, but it is a 6th gen only part.

Ill give u honest stright answer. No one will guarantee you youll bend the knuckle to factory specs. Most shops stay away from that to avoid suits. U really need to get it hot, and when do you stop, red? Hot red? Glowing red? Melted metal? Just be done with it and get a kuckle from someone parting or a yard. Junkyard shopping is for the DIY a must experience. Its like taking the teenager to the mall for the first time to buy make up.

Dont over stress it, its not rocket science. If you can take the knucke off at home, you can do it there. Make sure to ask for the sheet with prices.

Just keep it simple....

I go to the yard every 2 months even to walk around, to see whats new, and sometimes i find cool stuff.....

I would be interested in knowing where you got your part numbers?

I got mine from a document I found at 6G Celica Forums > 6th Generation Celicas > General Discussion, posted by azian advanced. I downloaded a copy to be sure I could get at it whenever I needed it, and its name is 94-99 Celica OEM Parts Catalog; I'm glad I did because I can no longer find it. It supposedly shows 6G Celicas and so far I have not discovered problems matching parts in the real world.

I just looked up my part number in ToyoDIY and it did not show up, but your part number did:

Part 43211-20260 (KNUCKLE, STEERING, RH) was found on the following models:

Date range Model Frames/Options Found in diagram
09/1993-07/1999 TOYOTA CELICA AT200,ST204 48-02: FRONT AXLE ARM & STEERING KNUCKLE


My knuckle is on the right side front, and does not have ABS, so the split in years doesn't effect my number. Now we are down to a simple discrepancy between your number 43211-20260 and mine 43211-29015. I am not sure how to resolve this discrepancy, but the fellow who posted my doc said in his preface that it was a complete collision parts catalog for the 6gc (North America Only), that it was a copy of his personal one, and reminded that it is important to always include your VIN to make sure you get the correct part.

Does Toyota intentionally make it difficult to determine part numbers; intentionally discourage DIY maintenance? Is there an authoritative website where one can go and match parts in a drawing with their corresponding Toyota part numbers?


Thanks for being helpful. I'd really hate to make a part number mistake.

Thank you so much for the advice.

I do not intend to use heat or any other means to bend the ears back to "spec" (whatever that might be; does Toyota even publish that information, or information about he kind of steel used?). Due to all the uncertainty and lack of valid information, I consider it unsafe. So, I agree with you.

And, I am a little excited about going to the junkyard, just like a "teenager going to the mall for the first time," just not to buy makeup.

May I ask you what the "sheet with prices" is?

A piece of paper with prices of the parts u about to buy

TX

Plan to leave early tomorrow, armed with all of your good advice, seeking a replacement steering knuckle. Should be easy if I can find a Celica because I just finished removing the SN on my Celica today. Got a brother to go with me to provide immoral support. Wish us luck! Even have a rain coat. . .

bring some cardboard to lay on and a can of wasp killer.

Yup....

Thanks to everyone's great suggestions, we had a successful visit to an LKQ Pick Your Part yard in Durham, NC, 1301 South Miami Blvd; got the steering knuckle I wanted; the car was not a wreck. They have a car crusher on premises, so claim that no vehicle remains there longer than two months. Here is a Google Earth photo I took of my computer screen:




Anxious to get back to work but feel I owe those of you that helped me a short story that explains how my junkyard visit went.

Overall, seems to me, it was just like my first trip to the mall to get makup. . .

I had my brother with me and it was great fun; can't explain why crawling around in grease soaked dirt was so exciting, but it was. You guys were right about everything you suggested.

They didn't allow us to drive a vehicle down to the subject car (Red 1995 Celica with 157,000 on the odometer -- yet the timing belt had been changed at 306,000 miles, plus there were old junkyard markings on the engine). They didn't allow jacks of any kind so we left two floor jacks in the pickup. They provided wheelbarrows to cart your tools into the lot.

And, you will like this, when my bro and I wheeled a wheel barrow plus a cart (like some beach shopping cart) he had brought along, both heaped with tools and stuff, into the entrance part of the building to pay the $2 (X2) entrance fee, one of the worker bees behind the counter said as loudly as possible, "Wha, ohhh, what do we have here? Did you guys bring your entire garage with you?" All eyes snapped around to take in the noob stupidity. . . hahahahaha, it must have been really funny for them. Didn't bother us a bit; we were just having a good time. I explained to them it was my first time EVER (as if they couldn't have guessed)! I was just wishing I had brought along a video crew.

We had planned on picking up wasp spray on the way, but forgot. Luckily we didn't need it. I had cardboard, but brother John had an old mover's blanket that made a perfect ground cover. Oh, the price list, it was pasted to the wall and is supposedly on-line (they said).

The Celica was supposed to be on the lot according to two separate people I had called, however, it had not made it to their on-line inventory list, so I think that is why it wasn't very much picked over. We were lucky for that, I think.

Had to get a locking lug nut off the tire before we could go to work on the knuckle. Lucky for me, we had brought ALL the tools from my garage, so I had my DeWalt Impact Driver (woodworking tool). Put an impact socket on that little battery powered tool and zing, off comes the locked lug nut!!

While we were trying to figure out how to get the axle nut off, a man named Nixon stopped by and inquired as to what we were trying to do and if we needed any help. Well, I actually did need a little help with the axle nut, so he pitched in and kind of took over the show. A very very nice fellow, this guy Nixon. He was from Nicaragua, and had an impressive collection of muscles, so for him that job was easy. Gave him $20 for all his help, cash I had to force into his hand; subtracted that amount from my brother's pay.

If you want to see the world from an entirely different perspective, while helping recycle old auto parts that have continued usefulness, this is a great place to experience. However, all those partially eaten automobile carcasses kinda gave me a sense of being in a sacred place where living things are turning back into the dust from which they all came; or dying prisoners organs were being salvaged. I must rearrange my thinking so that stops bothering me.

Turns out Nixon has a Celica of the same year (1995) that he bought a year ago for only $1,000.

Here are some pics that my brother took of Nixon and me around the Red Celica:

http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/GuiermoV...ering%20Knuckle

Tore down the knuckle I took off my Celica yesterday so I would be satisfied I could do it to the new knuckle, and I am just about ready to do it to it. Will post some pics in the thread on the "Bent Steering Knuckle Problem."

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in with suggestions and information; it all went to very good use.

BBS wheels, nice. glad you liked it... i go about every 2 months, just to window shop. found nice stereos, amps, and even seen a fool score a vintage steering wheel that fetches 500 in ebay