6G Celicas Forums

So, I bought my first Rav4 about a month or 2 ago. I've been in the celica world for a long time and I wanted a winter beater. As it turns out, the 3s decided that it was going to start Rod knocking like a beast. Needless to say, car needed work.

I had an old 5s just sitting on a pallet in the garage collecting dust. it came from a 94 celica, and it ran when it was pulled.

Now that I've got everything out of the Rav, and from what i'm told, the 5s block will need ground on the back to make space for the transfer case, but otherwise it should be pretty straight forward I think.

I haven't had time to research everything... but to be honest there isn't much out there on this particular swap because there aren't that many gains to be had. For me the gains are purely $$$.

if you guys see anything glaring, PM me and let me know if you would....

The Plan
1) swap wiring harness from 3sfe to 5sfe
2) "depending on how the ecu works out", swap over exhaust manifold because of OBD1/OBD2 differences in the model years
3) hook tranny and T-case to 5sfe ( grind block as needed, additionally brace as needed for missing mounting points)
4) repair subframe rust, mount engine and tranny to subframe - reinstall in car
5)hook everything back up including 3sfe ecu to run engine. ** Pray ecu can deal with extra stroke/air and change fuel delivery to accomodate**
6) ** pray that i don't need to swap injectors to do this to get engine to running** - Does anyone know if there is much in the way of difference between the injectors? basically I'm looking to run the 5sfe like a stroked 3sfe. Should work I'd think.

just run the 5S with it's injectors on the 3S computer I'd imagine? It'll be interesting to see this completed, a 3S-GTE Rav4 would be cooler but $$$ is king.

The 94 5s doesn't have cam and crank sensor the 3s ecu will be looking for.

I didn't catch that. Good point! He might need to get the front bits off an OBD2 5S to make this work, I doubt the 3S parts will swap.

@batman - I appear to have located at least the crank sensor part of this as an issue. I'll illustrate in the below pics. may have to try and run the 5s ecu..... Do the later 5s's have the cam and crank sensor?

In any case - here we are. Wiring harness is swapped over mostly sucessfully.

Issue #1 - AC compressor plugs are different. Maybe can swap over 3s compressor? Don't know yet, need to investigate.


Issue #2 - Random plug available, not used on 5s, used on 3sfe. - This is likely the aforementioned Crank sensor


The wiring on the other side of that for the 3sfe goes down beside the crank pulley. this COULD be a major issue. We'll see.


There are some other harness length differences, but everything does plug up, it's just a little more stretched than it was before.

If I have to use the 5s ecu, I wonder how that would affect the transmission part of this car given that it's an automatic and I think the ECU has a hand in controlling that mess.

All unknowns, nothing unsolvable I don't think though. Curious that the 3sfe would have a crank and cam position sensor however.... unexpected.

This post has been edited by ricochet1490: Jan 3, 2016 - 10:24 PM

http://www.rav4world.com/forums/85-4-1-fau...s-98-3s-fe.html

1997 3sfe doesn't have the cam position sensor, it has a dizzy, so at least that part is taken care of.

The sensor behind the crank pulley is still an unknown

Is the crank sensor on the block or the oil pump assembly? Cause if it's the oil pump assembly, you could purchase a 96+ Celica one for the 5sfe or swap the 3sfe one over.

This post has been edited by mkernz22: Jan 13, 2016 - 9:18 PM

I think it goes through the block and into the case.... not a show stopper, I'm sure its just a hole with an o-ring or something simple.....

What I don't know is what the trigger mechanism is for it. It appears that the 96+ 5sfe's have a similar sensor. local guy selling a 5s froma 97-01 camry sent me a picture and it's there on that block.... but he wants 800 for the used engine as is. The point of doing this was to save myself the $$ and use this motor I ALREADY had. so idk

if anyone has any other ideas about how to send that crank signal that might be quick and dirty I'm all ears. Otherwise im dropping the oil pan to see what this sensor and trigger for it looks like. if it's pressed on the crankshaft I'm going to be pissed because I REALLY don't want to tear this motor down for that.

I think it's actually on the oil pump assembly.
The part numbers are different between the two years.

And pictures to confirm.
You can see the slot cutout for it on the '96+ picture.

1995<below (Part #: 15100-74060)


1996+ (Part #: 15100-74050)


And you can swap it over from the Rav4 since the part number is used for both vehicles.
http://toyotaparts.bochtoyotasouth.com/toy...t_name=oil-pump

So there you are, saved you a huge head ache. That'll be $200

And when you take it off, you have to take off the oil pan because there are two nuts on the inside that go to the oil pickup. Don't try to just pry it off cause it won't come off. Ask me how I know.


This post has been edited by mkernz22: Jan 14, 2016 - 5:00 PM

Haha thanks Mike. I'll be looking into this directly.
What's the trigger for the sensor? Any idea?

That I couldn't tell you, you'll just have to compare the gear or crank on either engine. Hopefully it's the gear, cause I know the gear slides all the way on there and the crank doesn't show.

Any update?

This better be worth it lol

I was in Europe last week. So no update.

I'll be working on it Saturday all day for sure so hopefully we have something by then.

Everything to this point has been a cake walk, and I haven't done much more work that pull a motor to this point (yeah I swapped an engine wiring harness over but that's nothing really big)

If this was a 96+ 5sfe, it would have been done already because of the crank position sensor issue.
Once I resolve that Im just praying that the 3sfe ecu can run the 5s by trimming the fuel adequately based on feedback from the O2 sensors.
If I get to that point and fail then, that's when I'll be pissed haha

So I've got everything sorted I think. As you can see here, the crank position sensor runs off the timing sprocket with the sensor integrated into the oil pump. Everything else had already swapped over and plugged up.


So, tonight with any luck I'll have the obd1 5s oil pump removed, the one from the 3sfe swapped in, and the oil pan back on. After that I'll swap over the AC and begin trying to mount the 5s to the awd gear box, grinding the block where I need to to make it fit. Then a swap of exhaust manifold somewhere there to make sure I get that oxygen sensor... I think it'll work.

The only thing that'll stop me now is if the 3sfe ecu doesn't have enough fuel map to run the 5s because of the extra stroke. But I'd sure hope it would. We'll see what happens I guess.

SAFC can fix that?

Good chance of it. Nice idea.

If it wasn't automatic I'd run the 5s ecu..... stupid transmission control.

I think I might have an auto 5s ECU somewhere. I had one parts car that was 96+ that was auto.
If someone can get me a part number for the ECU, then I'd try to dig for it in my shed come the warmer weather.

I still think the 3S maps with 5S injectors will work close enough, it won't know it's bigger injectors so it'll run the same maps and duty cycles and probably be close enough. It's a Toyota, not rocket science.

Successful weekend.
Engine bolted onto the transmission. Had to grind the back of the block down probably 3/4" where the two stud holes are to clearance the differential. Odds and ends to tie up now and hopefully back in the car soon.

This post has been edited by ricochet1490: Mar 21, 2016 - 11:13 AM