6G Celicas Forums

I've got a choice of 2 from David norton

1050 high carbon billet steel

T7 7075 aluminum

which one will you guys choose,

engine is 3sgte 2nd gen

tranny is the stock GT tranny

which is lighter?

^ i understand how a flywheel works and what it does, so on and so forth

i'm doing an aerospace engineering degree with a background in mechnical engineering

So how about E = kMV^2

This post has been edited by Aaagogo: Apr 15, 2006 - 8:56 AM

That's good that you know how it works...like Manny said though, which one is lighter?

well, since i have a public highschool math education, lemme ask again, which is lighter?
what do they each weigh?
i wasnt trying to be smart with the question, if thats what the was for.

95% of the time aluminum is lightest
steel is heavier....and don't must upgrade race parts come in aluminum????
and usually cost more $$$
are they both same price ????
(just a guess)

This post has been edited by Smokeeey420: Apr 15, 2006 - 9:45 AM

Alluminum is lighter but more prone to distort from heat. I personally
would go with steel. I also have a public High school math background.
14 years machining experience. I can hardly believe that someone
even makes a flywheel out of alluminum. Seems like it would load
up on the clutch face. Am I missing something here? It would be
like making a brake rotor out of alluminum. I don't get it sorry.

This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Apr 15, 2006 - 3:56 PM

Manny, i did not mean to offend you by that

i agree with what ^ said, AL more prone to distortion, and racing parts are made out of AL is because professionals get them replaced.

I have not done extensive research on how often/operating life of racing AL parts and how frequently it gets replaced by racing professionals.

however, T7 7075 aluminum breaks down to be thermally treated and stabilized with zinc alloy which makes the AL having a high strength to weight ratio

that was y i am asking, my education got me lost right here :cursin:

here's where i'm lost at

equation, kE = kMV^2 (shd have added the k infront in the earlier eqn.)

kinetic engery = constant * MASS * Velocity squared.

as you can see from that equation, the mass is one of the contributing factor.

that is the very basic, as we go into inertia and moment of inertia of a uniform circular disk (in this case we ignore the tiny hole in the center of the flywheel) the eqn becomes I = 1/2 MR^2, M = mass and R = radius

in both eqns, MASS cannot be ignored.

basically what i'm trying to say is that mass is the contributing factor for all the eqns involving centripital acclerationa and what not.

however, the counteracting factor to the increase in kinetic energy is the newtons law, F = ma, rewritten as a = F/m

the mass reduces acceleration, however the mass yields a higher kinetic energy.

that's y i decided to do a poll and ask

i'm sorry, perharps i shd have typed all these out in my 1st post. i'm just so confused...

you engineering students crack me up...lol

buy the lighter one. stick to brands names that lots of people are using and not reporting problems with.

Agree with Lagos! What its costing you? i need one to.

This post has been edited by madmods: Apr 16, 2006 - 5:15 AM

Alluminum is up to the task strength wise, except possably the teeth for
starting. My concern would be heat and the residue left from use. Al
will clog, and soon you will have al to al on the clutch face. I'm sure ur
extensive engineering background has by far surpassed the original
3s flywheel designers by now though. I would say it will last at least 3 Mo.
Check into grinding al. Grinding wheels clog and explode.

Mass is part of the equation, but not all of it. A more massive flywheel with that mass mainly in the center is probably better than a less massive flywheel with the mass at the edge.

Moments of force, and all that.

So the 'best' flywheel for engine response is the one with the least rotational inertia.

Best is least weight agreed. There is something I don't think anyone
seems to understand about material properties. Would you make a flywheel
out of styrofoam? It's light it must be best. I would agree with
Lagos on the statment use something reputable, something
tried and true the lighter the better of course. My opinion aluminum
flywheels are strictly for racing and prolly replaced after every
race. I have still yet to find one. I would like some data on this aluminum
flywheel of which u speak. Thickness, a link to the manufactur, anything.
I really have a hard time beleiving they make one.

This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Apr 16, 2006 - 10:37 AM

Hence my "best for engine response comment"

The real world is rather more complex.

flywheel and clutch will be both custom made from specclutch, since the flywheel and the clutch pressure plate has to be balanced.

steel = heavy and durable
aluminum = light but distorts
chromoloy = light but hard (right? , fidanza sells chromoly flywheels so why isn't it on the list)

As far as flywheel weight

if you have an automatic, a big laggy turbo , or race in the 1/8th mile and launch alot then a stock or heavier than stock flywheel is better

if you have a manual, or turbo that won't easily bog you down if you miss launch it, or like high speed racing, road racing, 1/4 mile racing...etc then a lighter flywheel will do it

the trade off is launch vs acceleration

a heavier flywheel will 'store' more energy and thus you can transfer more of it instantaneously to the wheels on the launch. However once the launch is over, you're carrying that extra rotational weight throught the entire run with you.

a lighter flywheel stores less energy and thus it will give you a worse launch, and you're more likely to bog the car down (as you require more energy than the flywheel is capable of delivering ot the wheels and so the excess load is placed on the motor and the motor bogs) ... however once you've gotten past launching ... you're not carrying that excess baggage... and so you'll have more 'top end'

this is kind of like the AWD vs RWD/FWD issue

AWD will post great 60' , 0-60 and 1/8th mile times...
a RWD/FWD with the same power will shine more past the 1/4 mile mark and post a higher trap speed and higher top speed than an AWD car ...because of the lighter weight and the lower drivetrain loss

so it's a personal preference.. are you a short sprint racer , or are you a top end racer... based on that ... you can answer the flywheel weight question (or find a happy medium between the two because stock flywheels weigh 18lbs maybe and you may have 15, 11, 9, and 7 lbs options)

Then there's the materials question

thank you very much for your indepth explaination

http://www.specclutch.com/
Gallery-Products page 6 shows the Alluminum Flywheel. It has a steel face.
I would choose page 8 it looks awesome for ur application.
Sorry for the confusion, I was under the impression the clutch
would have contact with the alluminum, not so.



Aluminum W/steel face on right


This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Apr 16, 2006 - 5:42 PM

9 lbs. Chromolly Flywheel. Bought it from Alamo Autosports.

Aluminum flywheels have steel friction surfaces and gears for the starter... So stop worrying about the aluminum being suited for those purposes.

-Charlie