6G Celicas Forums

hey guys, since i've been fielding alot of questions about turboing the 5s, and most of the links in the 5sfte sticky are dead, i figured i start a thread about the buildup of my kit, and try to include as many details as possible, so everyone can learn a little more about what exactly goes into a setup like this. ill keep updating the threads and adding pics and stuff as i upload more ect..
im not gonna get into the whole why not swap a 3s instead debate here, thats a dead issue as far as im concerned. (not that i think swapping is a bad idea, just not for me.)
so, ill start off by saying the single most important thing you can do if you wanna turbo your 5s is RESEARCH! take your time, learn about the diffrent systems that all work together to make a good kit work. go to www.howstuffworks.com and find out how EVERYTHING works, it'll make understanding the hows and whys of everything so much easier. i've been reserching about this for 2+yrs and i STILL learn new things everyday.
#2 is DONT BE CHEAP...can you do it cheap? yea..will it last? prolly not.
thats gotta be the SINGLE biggest mistake i see EVERYONE make. cheap out on all the little stuff, and it WILL come back to haunt you in the end
that said, i decided i wanted to turbo my 5s. lol
so, off on the hunt i went...parts lists, install sites, the burien kit...i searched it ALLLLLL...for MONTHS!! talking to people, looking at sites, printing info..basicly what the old timers call "goin to the woodshed"
then, i started looking for parts:
3s exhaust manifold, ct-26 turbo, oil hard lines, elbow and primary cat (also known as a downpipe), if your not planning on getting a aftermarket downpipe. also the oil pan and 2bar map sensor.
your gonna want these off of a 2nd gen 3sgte from a 90-93 alltrac or mr2T, and are pretty easy finds over on www.alltrac.net and or www.mr2oc.com. if your not a member of these 2 sites, YOU SHOULD BE!!! theres a wealth of info on these to sites, and while alot of it may not be 5sfte spacific, its still VERY good info, especially the 90-99 mr2/ 3sgte forum.
next was injectors. there is ALOT of confusion here, where to find them, what they look like, what size are they really ect.
what we're looking for is the MKIII N/A supra injectors. not turbo injectors, not alltrac injectors, N/A MKIII supra. theyre a lime green color, and 315cc. just to clear up another point of confusion, they do NOT become bigger injectors in our cars. the fuel pressure between the n/a supra and the 5s is the SAME.
there is a pic in the 5sfte sticky of what they look like and the flow tests to show it.
i found mine on ebay, but you can sometimes find them on some of the boards ive mentioned, and the supraforums.
also, i really reccomend having the injectors cleaned and balanced once you get them, if you look closley at the printout for my injectors in the sticky from when i had them cleaned and balanced, youll see why i say this.
one of my injectors wasnt even spraying, it was DRIPPING before it was cleaned. i'd HATE to see what would happen if i'd installed that thing in there and cranked up the boost!
so yea, i really cant stress enough, HAVE YOUR INJECTORS CLEANED BEFORE YOU INSTALL THEM!!! www.rceng.com did an excelent job on mine for about 100$, and ive heard thru the mr2 board that www.witchhunter.com also does a very good job, and are only 12$ per injector.

EDIT!!! 315CC injectors are TOO SMALL for use in a turbo 5sfe. 460cc rx7 injectors are a drop in replacement and are discribed later in this post!!!


you'll also need to upgrade your fuel pump, use the 255lph walboro supra pump. you can get it for under 100 usually on ebay., and pretty much bolts in.
next for me was the intercooler..now contrary to popular belief, bigger IS NOT always better when it comes to intercoolers.
you wanna choose the smallest intercooler to fit your needs, with a LITTLE room for growth. for instance, in my case, my goal is around 190-200whp for now, so i chose a intercooler thats 26x6x3 overall length, with endtanks. its good for up to 300hp. why not somthing bigger? well, the #1 reason is theres no NEED for anything bigger. lol the bigger you go, the more pressure drop you have, and thats not what we want. with all the piping invloved for a 5sfte FMIC, the last then we want is some big honking core, sucking up 2-3 or more psi of the boost we wanna get to our engines.
for the piping, again, bigger is NOT always better. 2" or 2.25 " is more than sufficent for us. you'll need to buy pre-bent lengths and cut and fit them for your particular setup. jcwhitney is cheap for aluminized steel, or burns stainless if you want stainless pipes.
then the noise maker of the bunch , the BOV...your choice here, i chose the HKS SSQV... got it from ebay for 190+ shipping i think it was..just make sure your buying the real thing if its from ebay, theres alot of shady copys floating around. youll also need a mounting flange to have welded to your intercooler piping, make sure you get the correct size and material to match your piping.
TOO BE CONTINUED...

This post has been edited by presure2: Nov 11, 2007 - 10:53 AM

Wow, man sorry to hear the motor went down. Not sure if that really was the limit or just unfortunate situation caused by complacity/laziness. We have ALL done it.

Sounds like the thing was/is awesome with the cams. I can't wait to see it back up and running. Any plans at this time for it??

+1 for messing with PS out of the car - after several 5s swaps - I tried it in car once - never it again LOL.

Certainly wait with eager anticipation on updates.

-Terracar

This post has been edited by Terracar: Mar 19, 2009 - 11:47 AM

This is not true by any means, the motor did NOT blow due to the "limits" of the 5s......it blew due to a lean condition of almost 14-1 at redline. enough to blow ANY motor. No sense in starting rumors.

when I replaced my 5s I left the PS pump in the car like the BGB said and it was a major PITA. If I ever have to do it again I'd just take the pump out with it, it seems easier.

meh, not really a huge deal, i know it wasnt the limit, just my own stupidity.

jim i think dan was talking more "tounge in cheek" than anything.

its definetly easier to drain the PS and replace the high pressure hose banjo bolt crush washer than taking the PS pump out while its in.

Even that ps bolt can be a bitch to remove though. Its in such a tight odd spot.

lol...snap on deep offset wrenches FTW. makes it a breeze.
you can also wait till the front/rear crossmember is out and swing the motor forward a bit for a little more clearance with a normal wrench if needed

well P your off to a nice start man.. and you took that motor out in a quickness haha!!

dude its an AFR limit of the motor.... so yes its true the 5sfte has a pushed limit of ~14:1 afr in this situation. that was the cause and a limit to how lean you could possibly go.



hehe my motor didn't blow that lean

Motors dont have an afr limit, but turbo and NA cars do.
10-12afr is how much fuel should be used on a boosted car to keep cyl temps cool. Your car didn't blow because you have a factory stock turbo car that is tuned to probably take out much more timing than the stock 5sfe ecu takes out when it sense knock. Manny on the other hand probably gained around 40hp, but didn't add 40hp worth of fuel to compensate. On top of all that, he got rid of the blue valve cover, which i scientifically believe was the secret that held the motor together all of these years.

DAMNIT!! i thought that might have somthing to do with it!!!

Truely amazing. I know i havnt been around much, but it honestly is amazing to me seeing how far this motor has come from the stock 5sfe. And to finally see a "hickup," reguardless of fault, 3,4 or 5 years is amazing. IT just shows what can be done if you research correctly, and pick the right 2.


FAST, CHEAP, RELIABLE: Pick 2.. <Saying to live by.

LOL just read my post - about PS - meant with PS still attached to motor and motor out of car rather than PS pump removed from the engine. With it still attached to the engine so much easier to deal with.

BTW Go for the gold! 900WHP!

-Terracar

lmao, no crazy whp goals, i just want it to be a solid reliable car, just like it was up until this happen.

Turbo.Celica.Reliable - Pick two.

Kidding, Hate to see this happen to you, any time frame as to when the new motor should be built by?

i heard that from a few people like...uumm..yea, almost 4 years ago.
even with my dumb mistake, i think we can put that misconception to rest.

i went out to the garage for about an hr yesterday, and discovered somthing that could explain some of the reason why i have always been leaner on the top end than what i should be compared to everyone else. i will post pics and a detailed explanation later on today when im more awake..lol
cliff notes is somthing that all california spec 5sfte guys need to know.
when you remove your stock intake, there is a vac hose, that goes in to the bottom of the stock intake hose.
this hose provides a vac source to your fuel pressure regulator.
when i installed my injen intake, WAYYY back, i plugged this line, and never thought nothing of it.
under normall conditions, no big deal, just a little less fuel pressure than normal under full load, which with the way the ecu is tuned, dont really do much anyway.
throw a turbo into the mix, and that changes. you NEED full fuel pressure under boost...lol
so yea, the whole time i have been turbo'd, the car has been in fuel conservation mode, full time.
no wonder i could get a nice clean 11.5-12:1AFR under boost pulling like ~10-15% with the SAFC, while with shannons car it took -20+% to achive the same thing
learning is fun!

So your fpr never had a vac source?

that could be an issue!

exactly..lmao...not ever, since the day i turboed.

anyway, big news.
i tore down the motor today, with the intent of taking the head off, and putting it on dustins old 5s we have sitting in the garage.
after getting dustins head off, i went about pulling my head off, and once i did, i was shocked.

everything looked GREAT.
no signs of detonation (no puck marks in the cylinder head or piston tops), wear was VERY minimal, even on cylinder 3, which had 70 compression. at that point, i wondered if i screwed somthing up when installing the cams, but everything up top looked good when i pulled it apart as well.
so, i went right for the #3 piston, and got that pulled out, once i did, i realized my orginal thought was right, cracked ringland on the #3 piston.
now although i expected to see that, what really suprized me about it was the condition of the cylinder. it has VERY minimal surface wear, and the little wear that is there will more than likely be taken care of with just a very quick honeing.
looks like i got MAJORLY lucky there.

when this first happen, jenn and i accepted the fact that the motor was probably going to need to be totally rebuilt, seeing as how we've put just about 50K HARD miles on the motor, and were expecting to see alot of wear and tear on things because of it.

however, this motor really is amazing. everything looks great, no abnormal wear anywhere that i can see, nothing out of the ordinary for a motor with a little over 100k on it, its awesome.

so, as of right now, the plan is to hone the cylinders quick, install a new piston into #3, with a new set of rings on all four, and to just keep trucking on with team 5sfte!!

a few pics of the carnage on piston #3: (which by the way, looks AMAZINGLY similar to what happens on a 3sgte in the same cylinder)





the broken peice removed:



the offender:



in this pic, if you look close (sorry the pic isnt perfect) you can see how the crack continues down into the ringland between the 2nd and 3rd ring, and has started to shear away from the piston.



and now some pics of the block, cylinders 2 & 3. you can see #3 has more wear than #2 here:



but not enough to catch a fingernail or anything on, (you can still see the crosshatch marks thru the wear marks)



and a pic of #2, to give you an idea of how little wear there is on the other cylinders:



if anyone wants/needs any specific pics of anything, just let me know, i will be taking alot more pics in the comming days of the diffrence between the cali/ non cali head/vac system, and the progress as its made.

wow that's some amazing stuff right there ...Im just glad your still team 5sfte!