6G Celicas Forums

i'm not wanting longer gearing in the celica.. i'm aiming for 6 shorter gears. why settle for 140 in 4th with only one more gear to go when you can get 120 in 4th with two more gears on top?

and i'm told (makes sense, excluding my old saturn) that every 5 speed transmission out there has room for a 6th gear if the gears are the right size...

I'm a bit confused by this statement. What you're saying is.... You want the same speed capabilities but with more shifting???

what your told, and what others have tried and done (read mr2oc) is 2 diffrent things..lol

why the need for more gears, other than to make the cool F&F noise during shifts?

here's something that confuses me... tell me if these figures are right, i pulled them from different sources, because the info is so hard to come by...

Gear Ratios
E-153:
1) 3.23:1
2) 1.91:1
3) 1.25:1
4)0.918:1
5) 0.731:1
Final Drive) 4.285:1
Reverse)3.545:1
Rear Diff) N/A

E-154f
1) 3.384:1
2) 1.913:1
3) 1.258:1
4)0.918:1
5) 0.731:1
Final Drive) 4.285:1
Reverse) 3.545:1
Rear Diff) 2.928:2

S-54
1) 3.285:1
2) 1.960:1
3) 1.322:1
4) 1.028:1
5) 0.820:1
Final Drive) 4.176:1
Reverse)3.153:1
Rear Diff) N/A

now, i realize the final drive on the E-153 is slightly longer than the S-54, but none the less.. if i'm reading these numbers (and assuming they're correct) right, the gear ratios of the S-54 are longer than the E-153...

now, what i propose.. shorter gears than the E-154f on all 5 gears, and add in a 6th as well... an idea i have in question, is what about using gears from a shorter geared 5 speed transmission, and an original gear, or just playing all-around mix-and-match... i get that there may not be space to mix-and-match to just add in one gear, but what about a custom gearset for this? if not custom-fab, piece it together from different cars' transmissions? just a thought...



because shorter gears means more easy acceleration... more gears means more shifting, but allows for closer gearing for better acceleration... less rotational resistance... why did anyone ever make a 6 speed in the first place?

Why did anyone ever make a 6 speed? To have more driving gears and therefore, higher gearing capabilities. I'm just slightly confused by what you're wanting. You want, and I'm making this up for the sake of having numbers, a top speed of 150. You can have that with the E153, or you are trying to make your own 6 speed that will also do 150, but with more shifting. You would lose time every single time you change gears, so I'm just confused by what you're looking for. Hypothetically, you might make it to 60 faster, but you also might not. Depends on how much time you lose when you shift.

As I understand it, there is X amount of room within the transmission case, and those 5 gears take up every bit of that room. No extra space for another gear. You CAN have 6 gears in that transmission case, but they will have to be custom gears. It sounds to me like you just need to decide what ratio you want each of your 6 gears to be and then have them custom made.

i probably will need to have them custom made... and what i'm attempting to gain is closer gear ratios to allow for faster acceleration, rather than a higher top speed (though that would be nice, i'm not too worried about top speed with the 3S-GTE)... as far as loosing speed on shifts, i'm planning on having a short shift kit, keeping the RPM's up, and the clutch i have should engage pretty quick... i'm not too worried about loosing time on shifting because of the build i have laid out... 9.4lb flywheel, 6 puck carbon-kevlar clutch, and a high-rev engine (all the bolt-ons will help get up there quick too with a light flywheel)... i should loose the same amount of time shifting with this build on a 6 speed as a 5 speed, just with an extra shift, yes... but that difference would be so minute that if i get the gearing JUST right with the 6 gears, that the downsized gears would more than make up for the loss of time on the one extra shift before my top gear (at which point shifting is the least of my worries with loosing time)...

balance i accept = shifting sooner < vehicle being more responsive and getting up to speed quicker

way i see it, shorter gears is like a lighter flywheel in the long run... reason i want a 6th gear instead of just a shorter 5 speed is to not weaken the power curve in the top end in higher gears, as well as maintain the same top speed and fuel economy, but get better acceleration at the same time. basically keep about the same higher gear ratios (6th gear would be a little longer than the original 5th)... the first 3 gears would be closer, and 4th would be a little shorter too... 5th would be slightly shorter, and 6th slightly longer. less rotational inertia to start/speed up, stay in the optimal power band still, and maintain nearly the same top end...

that's really what i'm going after here... besides, you can't really argue that a 6 speed gen6 awd race-tuned celica would be one sexy beast!! viper: 6 speed. corvette: 6 speed. lamborghini: 6 speed.

sorry if that got repedative, if my spelling is a bit off, etc... long LONG day today, and another long day ahead tomorrow... looking forward to more responses.

take it from a guy thats pulled the trannies apart, theyre right NO ROOM. what you'd have to do is, custom gears, custom input, output shat, custom selector assy (at this point you'd be better off with 7 gears IMO), and probaly a custom diff ring gear

why would i need a custom imput and output shaft? and why would you say 7 gears would be better? if i did replace all that... would it be possible to do it that way?

are there any other options for a 6 speed awd celica out there?

i say that cause the shafts are machined to accept the needle beatings, hubs, etc. (and each gear/hub is a different size) if youre adding all that, and another shifter fork, you will end up with one "blank" place, so why not?

only 6sp i know of is the actual wrc race gt4 boxes.

find a place that makes custom trannies, you will need them to get this done.

looks like they call these the TTE x-trac gearbox (aluminum, 6 spd) but will require more parts to get it working.






This post has been edited by azian_advanced: Jan 28, 2011 - 12:07 AM

my z's 6th gear is used mostly for highway cruising.. same for my old mini's 6-speed.
why exactally do you want 6 gears? shorter for track (read: autoX) use? why not just stay with the S54? better straight line speeds? E153... i dont see a need for a 6speed in a celica...