6G Celicas Forums

theres a 3vz +awd 5th gen somewhere.

ah yes.. lol, in fact i was thinking about that car as i was typing that post, but was being lazy and figured that the meaning behind my words would be seen..

what i ment and should have said was: there is no car on the road today with that configuration that you can just buy as any production modle v6 [posible turbo], awd,2 dr, lift back, light). thuse making it fairly unique. that 5th was TT aswell. the only car that comes close is the audi TT quatro. and i have yet to see a turbo setup for that car (the v6 one) that could actually make any kind of power. not to mention its a pig.

This post has been edited by mandrek: Dec 20, 2011 - 4:01 AM

What about a vr4 3000gt although those arent very light

yup.. they are quite a pig, w/ crap suspension to boot.

Got a buddy that had one
They handle like crap
My Nova could go corner for corner with it
Wasn't really impressed but it

yup that is why i was pointing out that it would truley be unique.. light, 2 dr, liftback, AWD, v6(t), looks good, bustill a sleeper. handles great, ... the list goes on.

oh i know that the AWD and the turbo would put more weight into the car, but that is ok, considering that the 2GRFE is just over 100lbs lighter than a 3sgte... hmmm. and if you leave the turbo off the 2grfe, and were to compaire FF to FF(since it woudl be mated to the same trans), the 3sgte puts down what to the wheels stock? 200ish? were as to the swapped 2grfe puts down just under 275ish whp.

when coupled to the AWD i would wager that the 2grfe would loose less overall power and torque compared to a 3sgte driven AWD.. since the 2grfe has 2 more slugs helping to push that AWD.

what i mean, is not that since the 2grfe has more of both that it would still have more on tap after pushing the AWD, but that the actual percentage of power loss would be less. do i know if this would proove to be true? IDK.. wont know till some one does a swap.

The percentage lost through The drivetrain would be the same
So let's day the 3s has a 12% power difference from crank to wheels
The 2gr would suffer from the same 12% Loss of power
BTW 12% is just a random number used for the point at hand

you know this? or believe this?


example..a stock car puts down 100HP and losses about (lets just say 12%)
now put a 1000HP motor on the same car (assuming that the drive train has been suitably upgraded, and still weighs the same or less. so for the sake of this argument, the drive train is the same [apples to apples])

so you want me to believe that the smaller HP motor is only going to lose say 12HP to the drive train, wile the 1000hp motor is going to lose 120hp? pushing the same amount of mass?
simple physics.. not a chance... the percentage drive train loss is relative, not constant.

and the higher the HP on the motor (more the torque since that is the proper measurement of what is needed to move X mass.) the smaller the % of loss from the drive train.




and since the 2grfe has more torque, it will have a smaller amount of loss, especially when pushing the mass of a heaver AWD drive train. when compared to the 3sgte.

im basing that off of what I was told by my friends dyno tech
he used the new mustang gt an gt500 as an example
the 2 cars have the exact same trans an rear end gears an on the dyno
( witch has nothing to do with weight ) lose the same % through the drive transfer ever tho the gt500 has more power at the crank due to the supercharger
if you take the matching pair of cars with the same drivetrain but different motors they should have close to the same % of power loss since the gearing is the same
if that's wrong im sorry that's what I was lead to beleave an it does make since to me

hmm your argument does draw a good point that i did not reference to.. and that is that the actual % of loss is more so dictated by the gearing of the drive train.. and that IS a good, point for the argument on the whole.. but the point that i was making was that a higher torqued motor (IE: the V6) would require less power to move the drive train, and that in turn the % of power loss from the mass of the drive train, would be (and is) less.. but.... also, yes... the overall power loss is governed by gearing.. so we are both right... but that is also why you read the v6 swapped guys always looking to swap out there final gears to stretch em out a bit, since the v6 has more power and torque on tap, and can afford to.

like the old-school domestic guys at the strip, changing out rear ends and BOOM! gain X amount more torque to the wheels...

yep we both are right
an I plan on leaving my s54 alone with my v6 because I want the short gears
for the quarrel mile since that's the only form of real racing near me
but then st the same time a longer 5th gear would be nice for on the highway
but you are right the v6 will use less power to move the car down the road where as the 4cyl will need to use more

my gt4 AWD 3vzfe turbo conversion is in progress

my st184 3vzfe N/A conversion is complete and way better then stock 5sfe.....

the awd tt v6 conversion spoken about in previous posts is in america, mate of mine, he helped me out with my 184 build.....

he has had single and twin setups on his in fwd format, and he has now converted a 184 to AWD(due to the lack of gt4's in the states)

his new build is a massive fully fledged completely forged, custom everything build.......vids on youtube...C.M.S.

that reminds me i havent check my build thread on here for ages

as for the 2grfe engine research has lead me to believe it is possible with the same grinding of the block and transfer case to fit tranny...... unknown how much material will be left after grinding, but the tranny will bolt up........all toyota v6 engines, eg....3vzfe,2vzfe,5vzfe, 1mzfe, and the 2grfe all share the same bellhousing pattern.......from what my research has lead me to understand, as a 2grfe had been put into a rav4 in the uk

Kurt,

Having driven my v6 celica for a couple of months now I would consider going with the taller gearing in the e153 v6 box. First gear (if you could get traction) is gone in the blink of an eye as it is. I would hate to think how quick I would have to change with the s54 box.

Also with all the torque they put down pretty much instantly, I feel better knowing I went with a box that can handle the power.

cheers

This post has been edited by ST204R: Jan 30, 2012 - 6:30 AM

I do plan on swapping to a e153 trans later on but as of right now i can afford to so the engine swap but not the trans too