 starting troubles |
  |
 Aug 10, 2012 - 3:18 PM
|
 
|
 Enthusiast  Joined Nov 13, '10 From Greenville, SC Currently Offline Reputation: 50 (100%)  |
I need some ideas, guys. My '96 hatchback is having some starting issues. It was running flawlessly, and I left it in a lot for sale at my mom's work about three weeks ago. Now it just won't start. I checked the starter and battery. They're fine. I also checked the clutch start wire just to make sure it's connected. When I go to crank it, I can hear the fuel injectors engage. But it just won't activate the starter. No wiring has changed since I was driving it every day. All the ground wires are properly connected. No grounds are loose. I did just put the engine in this past March. It acts like it did before I remembered to connect the clutch start wire. Any ideas? Could it be the ignitor or something? I'm a little at a loss! Thanks in advance!
|
|
Aug 10, 2012 - 3:27 PM
|
|
 Enthusiast Joined Aug 15, '10 From The Best Coast Currently Offline Reputation: 12 (100%) |
You are sure the battery is fully charged?
|
|
Aug 10, 2012 - 4:39 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Nov 13, '10 From Greenville, SC Currently Offline Reputation: 50 (100%) |
Yeah. I took it to Autozone and had them charge it to 100% and test it.
|
|
Aug 10, 2012 - 4:55 PM
|
|
 Moderator Joined Jun 29, '08 From Denver Currently Offline Reputation: 59 (100%) |
Any clicking, popping, any noises like that when you try to start it?
-------------------- "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!
 2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage. 1998 Celica GT- BEAMS Swapped. 2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium. 2021 GMC Sierra AT4. |
|
Aug 10, 2012 - 4:58 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '10 From Toronto, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
i had this happen to me before, the connector at the battery terminal was toast, replaced it and it started like a champ. hope this helps.
-------------------- 5sge in research mode.
winter = building time. |
|
Aug 10, 2012 - 11:59 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Nov 13, '10 From Greenville, SC Currently Offline Reputation: 50 (100%) |
No popping or clicking. The starter does nothing at all. I also replaced the battery terminal when I finished the transplant. Radio and all other elwctronics work. Lights, etc. Strangest thing!
|
|
Aug 11, 2012 - 1:25 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Aug 15, '10 From The Best Coast Currently Offline Reputation: 12 (100%) |
Since you have a GT you can hotwire the starter pretty easy... Just make sure the car is not in gear, then get a wire and bridge from the positive of the battery to the little connector on the starter(Not the large one) This will tell you if the starter is good or not.
|
|
Aug 11, 2012 - 3:05 PM
|
|
 Enthusiast Joined Oct 29, '11 From Haltom City, Texas Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
QUOTE (Special_Edy @ Apr 3, 2012 - 1:41 PM)  First step is to determine if the starter works. There are two wires connected to the starter, one that is always receiving power from the battery and a smaller wire that makes the starter operate when you turn the key in the ignition(the solenoid wire). When you turn the key, 12 volts is sent thru the solenoid wire to tell the starter to start turning. So to test the starter you will need to unplug the solenoid wire(look at the pic below, it has a black plug) and use a small piece of wire to short the battery terminal of either the starter or the positive side of the battery to the solenoid plug on the starter(touch it to the solenoid plug on the starter, not the wire from the ignition silly) The starter will now start to spin nonstop until you remove the wire, if the starter is functioning correctly. If the starter did not spin, it is a bad starter. If the starter did spin, then either the starter relay or ignition switch are bad.(so go ahead and reconnect the starter like its supposed to be)  To test the starter relay and ignition switch- First locate the starter relay inside the fusebox(it is located next to the battery alongside the driverside fender on my 94 GT) In the pic below, it is the purple one(yours may be different) Carefully pry the starter relay and the EFI? relay beside it out. You need a flat screwdriver or two to pry the tabs on the base of the relay so that you can wiggle it out. Now swap the two relays(put them back in the opposite spots) and try to start the car. If the starter magically starts working then you have a bad relay. If the starter tested good and the relay swap did not fix it, then you have a bad ignition switch.  Hope this helps let me know if you need any clarification. Also, Autozone can test starters on or off of the vehicle(better to remove it and let them test it on a bench) There you go, hope that helps |
|
Aug 11, 2012 - 7:49 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Apr 11, '09 Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) |
check your fuses, i had this problem when i tried to sell mine, wouldnt start wouldnt even make a noise, (although i pulled out the am2 fuse) never hurts to check!
|
|
Aug 11, 2012 - 11:28 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Nov 13, '10 From Greenville, SC Currently Offline Reputation: 50 (100%) |
Thanks for the insight, guys! I didn't specify it, but I did take both the starter and battery to have them tested on Friday. I had to give up on it because it was a much-needed date night without the little guys until this evening. I'll get back to it in a couple of weeks and check the relays/fuses again. It sounds like it could definitely be a relay. The fuse looked okay, but I have to admit that I didn't pull it out because my tools were 2 hours away. I just borrowed a socket set to remove the starter. I hope it's that easy! It doesn't make much sense because it drove flawlessly for 3k miles after the initial engine swap! Only had the issue after sitting a bit. Hopefully we'll get it fixed right up and sold off quickly! Thanks for the pictures too, man! I think I have a couple of extra relays I harvested from a junked Celica in the tool box! Maybe they'll do the trick! Thanks again!
Jason |
|
Aug 12, 2012 - 12:32 AM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Apr 22, '12 From florida Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
From someone who worked art auto zone I will tell you that the bench testers they have are crap. It might day its a good starter but it does not test it while on a load. Example the gear on my starter would extend and spin fine on the tester so it said it was good, but you can freely spin the gear both ways by hand as if spinning a top meaning its bad
|
|
Aug 12, 2012 - 1:41 AM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Mar 24, '11 From 704 Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%) |
Test your AM2 fuse. My car died while driving it a while back and I ended up towing it home after it wouldn't crank yet everything would work. I could hear the fuel pump, all the electronics worked ect. Thought I toasted the motor cause it was a hot day and I had been in traffic for a good while. Decided to check every single fuse and found a fuse labled as AM2 blown. Don't know what it does, but I know the car won't crank without it. Talked to my bud that owned it and he said when he owned it was doing fine but randomly one day it wouldn't start and it was the same fuse.
Edit: Wait I just realized, you said your starter wasn't going, which I believe without AM2 should still work cause iirc it just powers the igniter and such. So nvm. This post has been edited by travisxcore: Aug 12, 2012 - 1:48 AM |
|
Aug 12, 2012 - 3:01 AM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Oct 29, '11 From Haltom City, Texas Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
No travisxcore, I think you were right at first. The starter will not spin if the AM2 fuse is bad. Its a 30 amp green fuse located in the engine compartment fusebox OP
|
|
Sep 7, 2012 - 10:43 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Nov 13, '10 From Greenville, SC Currently Offline Reputation: 50 (100%) |
Well.... I checked it out today. Got it started up just fine. (It's been sitting since the initial post.) I noticed pretty quickly that the solenoid wire wasn't connected on the starter. I can't remember if I left it unplugged last time on purpose or not. Anyway, I drove it to my parent's house. I was pumped!
Then we jumped in it to take on the date night. (First time on a kid-less date night in a month!) And... cue the deadness. It tried to start and then just gave up. I've got clicking from all of the right relays. (No noise from the starter.) Hear the fuel and such. Even replaced the starter relay today. Just no more starter power. Checked all the grounds again. The headlights stay nice and bright while I try to crank it. The battery is charged, and I even gave it some help with the 4runner via jumper cables. Checked every single fuse that is connected to starting (except the AM2, I forgot about it). The crazy thing is that the battery and oil light started out really bright in the ON position. (The position that the car runs in...) But when I went to crank it a couple of times, the oil light became really dim, and the battery light went off all together. In addition, the fans now come on when I flip it to ON. Everything electronic works fine. No loss of power like you'd expect from a battery cable, ground, bad battery, etc. Same symptoms as a month ago. I get to go play with it in the morning. Zach gave me a few pointers tonight. I also have the info you guys have already passed on. Any other great input that might help? You'd think I'd be having the crazy issues with the BEAMS instead of this 5S in the hatchback! Stupid 5S. Thanks guys. |
|
Sep 7, 2012 - 11:09 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Oct 29, '11 From Haltom City, Texas Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
The idiot lights are grounded to the engine and the interior/exterior/lighting are grounded to the chassis if Im not mistaken. Recheck the grounds to the engine and transmission.
One ground is on the passengerside strut tower and connects via plug to the cylinderhead near the alternator. The plug is often a point of failure so check the connection to make sure its clean and tight. There is also a ground on the transmission directly underneath the airbox and cleaner. It just bolts to the transmission.(there may be two of them). Most importantly check the connection between the battery ground clamp and the ground cables. Tighten it down more if you can. |
|
Sep 8, 2012 - 5:59 AM
|
|
|
Moderator Joined Jun 29, '08 From Denver Currently Offline Reputation: 59 (100%) |
Sounds like something is unplugged somewhere. The fans are designed to run all the time if something is wrong with anything electrical in the engine bay. I would double check a the major plugs and go from there. EA1, the white plug next to it, ECU plugs, and the three vertical plugs next to the ECU. It sounds like one of these has a loose connection, which will allow the car to start sometimes but not others.
-------------------- "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage. 1998 Celica GT- BEAMS Swapped. 2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium. 2021 GMC Sierra AT4. |
|
Sep 8, 2012 - 6:57 AM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Apr 11, '09 Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) |
You don't have a car alarm do you? When I bought mine there's an alarm and it sometimes it has the symptoms you described. But like I said last night your radiator fans are turning on because the sensor is probably unplugged (bottom passenger side of the radiator) and to me, sounds like a bad ground or like I said am2 fuse you won't loose power but it won't crank st all
|
|
Sep 8, 2012 - 10:40 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Nov 13, '10 From Greenville, SC Currently Offline Reputation: 50 (100%) |
Thanks for the help guys! I also spent a little time talking to a Toyota tech friend of mine in Columbia. I don't know what the exact issue was... I tried to jump the starter solenoid, but it only seemed to click. The fans came on every time I connected the solenoid to the positive. So I took out the starter to test it. My Toyota friend said everything Special Edy said about checking all the grounds. He also said that it HAD to be a bad connection or broken fuse somewhere because the car is supposed to start when you jump the starter. So I pulled off the transmission/battery ground and cleaned them really good. The connection to the trans seemed to be pretty grimy. I also sprayed off the main connector for the engine harness underneath the engine bay fusebox. It seemed pretty nasty too. The AM2 fuse wasn't blown, but it did have some green oxidation on it.
After all that, I put everything back super tight. And it cranked right up! Drove it for 3 hours today. Cranked it a dozen + times. No issues. Thanks for all of the HUGE help, guys! Hopefully it'll just keep on cranking like normal from now on! |
|
Sep 9, 2012 - 7:05 AM
|
|
|
Moderator Joined Jun 29, '08 From Denver Currently Offline Reputation: 59 (100%) |
Glad you got it fixed!
-------------------- "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage. 1998 Celica GT- BEAMS Swapped. 2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium. 2021 GMC Sierra AT4. |
|
Sep 9, 2012 - 6:48 PM
|
|
|
Enthusiast Joined Oct 29, '11 From Haltom City, Texas Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: June 12th, 2025 - 8:13 PM |