Toyota-Caldina st215 3s-gte swap, has any body tried it.. Options

[RUNNIN-LOW]

well i just recently got my 94 celica gt from a guy who put like 2hundred grand miles...on it but yeah i was looking around and it seems like everybody is doing a gt4 swap with the 3sgte and i was woundering if anybody have ever thought or done a caldina 3sgte swap it make like 260hp..

[jayi12-15psi]

I havent seen one

[snadman]

Check some of the the GT4 forums. It would be an amazingly difficult swap. There are so many extra wires and electronics and sensors that need to be installed. You would definitely need the entire front clip from the Caldina...if not the entire car, which makes it almost seem easier just to swap in the ST205 3S-GTE, which at least has been done already, and do some simple bolt-ons to get to that 260 mark. Just my two pennies.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

It's been done already on a FWD 6th gen Celica. snadman is right, the wiring is a lot more complicated. The person who did the wiring is in MR2OC.com.

[lagos]

there really isint any real benefit to that motor, and like everyone said, the wiring is a total nightmare.

you have to remember that a turbo motor is totally different then an NA motor. you are not really bound to the power that toyota specs the motors at, like you are with the 7a or 5s. its really easy to make more power on any gen 3s motor

you can just buy a 3rd gen 3sgte, add an MBC and a nice exhaust, and youll be well over the 260 crank hp or buy a 2nd gen motor, upgrade the turbo, add in an exhaust, and reach that same goal.

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 9, 2005 - 2:41 AM

[CheesyLobster]

there really isint any real benefit to that motor, and like everyone said, the wiring is a total nightmare.

you have to remember that a turbo motor is totally different then an NA motor. you are not really bound to the power that toyota specs the motors at, like you are with the 7a or 5s. its really easy to make more power on any gen 3s motor

you can just buy a 3rd gen 3sgte, add an MBC and a nice exhaust, and youll be well over the 260 crank hp  or buy a 2nd gen motor, upgrade the turbo, add in an exhaust, and reach that same goal.
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I don't think that this is true at all. The highest I've seen any second gen on the site go is about 225 at the wheels, where I've seen 3rd gens get over 300. I don't think that this is because the 2nd gen doesn't have the capability, but because the 3rd gen is simply a newer, more reliable motor that people are more willing to push because of its youth. A 2nd gen 3sgte is going to probably be about 15 years old, and let's face it, sh*t just gives out after that long, no matter how well the car was maintained. Plus the third and second generation engines don’t get different hp only because of their turbos, but also because the third gen has a more efficient design in its head for airflow, and because of other minor differences.

I think that there would be a clear advantage over a 2nd gen to put in the 3/4 generation Caldina motor. I don't know why exactly it would be harder to wire; get a diagram and you should be able to figure it out if you have a good amount of general knowledge about cars. Hell if it's that big of a difference from the 3rd gen motor, run a stand alone. I'd really like to see more people do this swap and test the true potential of 3sgte.

[CheesyLobster]

I havent seen one
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I've seen a few. Hence it's quite feasible.

[jayi12-15psi]

I wasn't saying it wasn't feasible, just that I hadn't seen one. I have no doubt that it's happened

[jgreening]

I have posted this before but here it is again:

Caldina in a FWD Celica

[RUNNIN-LOW]

yeah i was woundering cause i found one for about 1500...and if it was like the same then i would do the swap..but if your guys are sayin its that hard and different then man ill stick with the 3rd gen gt4...

[dustin15brown]

Check some of the the GT4 forums. It would be an amazingly difficult swap. There are so many extra wires and electronics and sensors that need to be installed. You would definitely need the entire front clip from the Caldina...if not the entire car, which makes it almost seem easier just to swap in the ST205 3S-GTE, which at least has been done already, and do some simple bolt-ons to get to that 260 mark. Just my two pennies.
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Most people use the st185 not the 205 to swap in

[lagos]

I don't think that this is true at all. The highest I've seen any second gen on the site go is about 225 at the wheels, where I've seen 3rd gens get over 300. I don't think that this is because the 2nd gen doesn't have the capability, but because the 3rd gen is simply a newer, more reliable motor that people are more willing to push because of its youth.

it has nothing to do with youth,lol. the 2nd and 3rd gen motors are basically the same thing, 4cly 2.0l dohc. the only thing thats really different is that the 3rd gen has a better turbo, upgraded intercooler, and 550cc injectors. all of those things can be swaped over to the 2nd gen 3s. the only reason you dont see any swaper on here dyno at over 225hp is not because our motors are old and we are afraid to push them. its because thats all the stock ct26 turbo is really good for.

I don't know why exactly it would be harder to wire; get a diagram and you should be able to figure it out if you have a good amount of general knowledge about cars.

see thats the problem. this motor was never sold in the us, so its not like you can just go down to you local dealer and order a wiring diagram book. even if u manage to find one, it will probably be in another language and next to impossible to understand. so the only real way to get it to run is to get a standalone ecu, and you are looking at about 2grand for that.


the other thing to remember too, is that 260hp sepc people are talking about is at the crank, and the 225 that youve seen a 2nd gen motor dyno at is at the wheels! so figure your probably loosing 25hp from the drivetran. that 225hp at the wheels is probably about 250hp at the crank, all from a 15yr old crappy 2nd gen motor

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 9, 2005 - 2:15 PM

[Mr_E]

there really isint any real benefit to that motor, and like everyone said, the wiring is a total nightmare.

As pointed out, the 4th gen isn't significantly improved, and in some ways a step back. I mean, air-air intercooling?

[BBoYRuGGeD]

i completely agree with lagos. remember...the 3rd gen 3SGTE has better turbo and boosts higher (i think 12-13 as oppose to the 2nd gen's 9) than the 2nd gen thats why its producing more hp of the crank. air flow between the two are the same if im not mistaken. like lagos said, 2nd and 3rd gen 3SGTE are basically the same tho the 3rd has extra goodies (that can be swapped into the 2nd )

bboy

[MonsterBOX]

i thought the 4th gen had a diff intake mani more efficient and it had direct fire or something (no distributor)???

[lagos]

i thought the 4th gen had a diff intake mani more efficient and it had direct fire or something (no distributor)???
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it has coil packs... not anything thats better or worse, and you can add it to any car later on if you really want it. the intake manifold is a little different so that it mates up with the new (useless) intercooler, no benefit there

[ToYCeLi8]

there really isint any real benefit to that motor, and like everyone said, the wiring is a total nightmare.

you have to remember that a turbo motor is totally different then an NA motor. you are not really bound to the power that toyota specs the motors at, like you are with the 7a or 5s. its really easy to make more power on any gen 3s motor

you can just buy a 3rd gen 3sgte, add an MBC and a nice exhaust, and youll be well over the 260 crank hp or buy a 2nd gen motor, upgrade the turbo, add in an exhaust, and reach that same goal.

[snapback]354894[/snapback]

I don't think that this is true at all. The highest I've seen any second gen on the site go is about 225 at the wheels, where I've seen 3rd gens get over 300. I don't think that this is because the 2nd gen doesn't have the capability, but because the 3rd gen is simply a newer, more reliable motor that people are more willing to push because of its youth. A 2nd gen 3sgte is going to probably be about 15 years old, and let's face it, sh*t just gives out after that long, no matter how well the car was maintained. Plus the third and second generation engines don�t get different hp only because of their turbos, but also because the third gen has a more efficient design in its head for airflow, and because of other minor differences.

I think that there would be a clear advantage over a 2nd gen to put in the 3/4 generation Caldina motor. I don't know why exactly it would be harder to wire; get a diagram and you should be able to figure it out if you have a good amount of general knowledge about cars. Hell if it's that big of a difference from the 3rd gen motor, run a stand alone. I'd really like to see more people do this swap and test the true potential of 3sgte.

Dude!!!! I am running 252hp to the wheels @ 8-9psi. I had it dynoed almost 2 years ago. Like Lagos said I was kind of scared to boost higher. Don't want my tranny to blow.

David

This post has been edited by ToYCeLi8: Nov 14, 2005 - 4:07 AM

[Negative]

i thought the 4th gen had a diff intake mani more efficient and it had direct fire or something (no distributor)???

[snapback]355264[/snapback]

it has coil packs... not anything thats better or worse, and you can add it to any car later on if you really want it. the intake manifold is a little different so that it mates up with the new (useless) intercooler, no benefit there

I recently sold my Caldina GT4 clip because the wiring was just to difficult to find someone in Tx who could do it right. However - I did take the clip somwhat apart and the other reason I didn't use it was cause so many of the parts were different from the 3rd gen and therefore would be too difficult to obtain replacements for.
The Intake manifold is a much better flowing design than the side feed style 3rg gen one. Also the Turbo was way different and would not bolt up to anything but the Caldina head.
Strange little differences that added up to to much for me.
But it was definetly an improved design - except the top mount air to air - sux.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I also found a Russian member on here who had a Caldina 4th Gen 3SGTE in his Celica.....can't search for his profile however with the site only running forums right now. Mentioned it a while back, but probably forgotten by now.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

just wanted to add this little bit of info...

"A gen3 3S-GTE is no better a platform with which to make big power than a gen2. Although the gen3 produces more power in its stock configuration, all of that power comes from simple improvements that can be applied to a gen2 engine. Once you reach about 300rwhp, the playing field is essentially level."
-mrcontrols

thats coming from the power primer section of their site

bboy