doing a 3S-GTE swap Options

[Smaay]

Ok i have been reading all the threads and I have a few questions for Dustin and others that have done this.

in Bsamps4 thread he says the fuel pump relay is in this box,


in the GT the fuel pump relay is also the Circuit opening relay which is mounted on the ECU. so what do I need to use?


also it seems like I have to pull pins from the EA1 on the GT chassis side? or do I just have to add pins to it to support the 3S-GTE EA1 engine side plug?

would it be easier to do the harness like I do the 1MZ swap. take both harness' apart and morph them into 1 good harness

[Smaay]

this is Dustin's picture, is this a ST205 diagram? it appears that there are 2 relays in the system? the COR and a FP relay. this is even more confusing to me.

[njccmd2002]

Same as the 2gr

[Smaay]

2GR has 2 relays in the system? I really dont see a need for this.

[njccmd2002]

well i went and reviewed several articles, and is supposed to prolong the life of the pump, by decreasing the output of fuel in times when car is at idle. it was only a 20 bucks for the fuel resistor, and one more relay to wire. no bid deal.

[Smaay]

looking at the drawings I really dont even see a need for the second relay. its just a bunch of extra wiring back and forth through EA1.

from what it looks like the second relay adds the fuel pump resistor. what im going to assume is that the ECU provides the FPR ground, tripping the FP relay, adding the resistor to the circuit. this lowers the voltage on the pump for low speeds or demands.

then under high demands the ECU FPR signal goes away, opening the FP relay allowing a full 12V to the pump.

the Supra does something similar but with its own ECU. most of us just bypass it so the pump has a full 12V all the time.

[Smaay]

another thing im noticing is the signal for the CEL on the ST205 the signal passes through II2 pin 7 and on the GT is passes through II1 pin 7. is this swapped? the only way to light the CEL on the GT is for the signal to pass through II1

[Batman722]

You are correct about the FP relay and resistor.
The FP sees 12v at start up, then switches over to 9v through the resistor. IIRC at more than 25% throttle at switches over to full 12v.
I've read about guys overseas just just giving full 12v to the pump at all times, not a big deal, just a gas saver the stock way.

The other thing, IIRC again some connectors are labeled different with JDM and US.
Check the other pins with those two connectors.

[Smaay]

You are correct about the FP relay and resistor.
The FP sees 12v at start up, then switches over to 9v through the resistor. IIRC at more than 25% throttle at switches over to full 12v.
I've read about guys overseas just just giving full 12v to the pump at all times, not a big deal, just a gas saver the stock way.

The other thing, IIRC again some connectors are labeled different with JDM and US.
Check the other pins with those two connectors.

perfect, thanks Dustin!!!

I have been staring at the drawings all day today and It looks to me like II1 and II2 are reversed between a 99 USDM GT and the ST205. The pin numbers all correspond.

now for the 65 million dollar question, which pins get the resistor across them to avoid the code 54? I searched the forums and couldnt find what I was looking for.


edit:::: http://www.gtfours.co.uk had all the info I needed, ill be making a good wiring writeup as well as I do this.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jan 8, 2015 - 4:40 PM

[Batman722]

np.

Eliminating code 54 from the description on his site works great. I've done it to 3 st205 swaps without issue.
I used $2 resistors from Radio Shack. We need to seal/insulate them up here, they tend to get corroded over a couple of years, you shouldn't have any issues. Don't forget to bridge the level sensor on the IC.

Did you re-pin the clutch start switch wire ?

[Smaay]

i havent started anything yet, looking at the GT diagram the clutch start goes through IJ1 on pin 17. the 205 diagram does not show the circuit for the start signal. where does it need to go?


ok according to this http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73495 take the wire out of pin 18 on one of the II plugs and stick it in pin 17 of IJ1. this is on the 205 harness side

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jan 8, 2015 - 8:16 PM

[Batman722]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82196

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...3105&st=140

some pics in both of those as well.

[Smaay]

i have seen the top one a few times, but the second one is a big help, thanks again!!!

[Smaay]

ok picked up the engine today. got the engien and trans for a really good price however they cut the harness right here



its missing the entire EA1 assembly and the fuel pump relay and intercooler pump relay. I think i can salvage most everything from a 5S harness that i have extra. a lot of wiring going through EA1 i can omit and do the code 54 bypass close to the ECU.

Dustin, Manny, anyone else, got any ideas?

[Smaay]

Started tearing the engine down today. it appears that I have a WRC version? I have seen threads talking about this manifold but I didnt really pay attention. So what do i have here?




I tried to split the engine and trans and got held up by 1 stupid ass bolt. its under the engine and in a hard to reach between the transfer case. Its rounded off and stuck. so ill have to figure out how to get it off.

here is where the harness was cut. so what all is in this bit?


and what is this little guy?



OMG there are a ton of hoses and VSV's under the intake manifold. is all that crap necessary? can I eliminate some of it?

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jan 12, 2015 - 12:07 AM

[bsamps4]

You will end up deleting a lot more than you'd expect! I think I have spare harness parts if you have trouble sourcing. I also have a ton of left over 3s parts.

[Smaay]

I have a USDM GT harness coming. I think i can use that. Unless you have a ST205 fuse box and EA1 assembly. i dont need the entire harness. just up to the part they cut off

[nsxtypeR]

Those pipes underneath the manifold heatshield are part of the anti-lag system toyota was using in wrc. They are non functinal on our cars though

[Smaay]

deleted


This post has been edited by Smaay: Aug 16, 2015 - 10:32 PM

[presure2]

yup, WRC version. lots of stuff there thats not active anyway, so most of it can be removed.
you can see how i removed all of those vac lines ect that run behind/around the intake manifold in my 3s swap thread that D linked, anything specific just hmu via facebook messenger.

::edit::
that last pic is the cat temp sensor for the JDM gauge cluster. if the cat gets clogged and overheats, there is a idiot light in the JDM cluster that lights. we always just delete it, cause it dont trigger the CEL.

[Smaay]

Thanks Manny, ill do another read on your thread.

OFF TOPIC, have you guys seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s

[Box]

Smaay, 3S-GTE??? *looks outside for the Seven Horesemen* At least it makes more sense than a BEAMS.

[Smaay]

Smaay, 3S-GTE??? *looks outside for the Seven Horesemen* At least it makes more sense than a BEAMS.

lol its not going in my car lol. And ill never put a BEAMS in one of my cars


:::::update:::::

finally got the transmission separated. i used these guys


i was able to get a wrench on it and get the bolt started. it was a real pain to get it out. got the intake manifold off and harness free. so many connectors broke taking them off.

all those VSV's under the manifold, i can delete those correct? i am going to delete all those water lines to the IAC too.

[celicakitten]

Smaay, 3S-GTE??? *looks outside for the Seven Horesemen* At least it makes more sense than a BEAMS.

hahaha! Yeah, this whole debacle is my doing

[Box]

Now that everything is right with the world again, carry on.

[Smaay]

another thing i noticed in the ECU diagram. there is a pin for EGR, ECU pin C6. WTH?

Also what is everyone doing for AC? i was planning on using the GT compressor. i see on the ST205 ECU diagram AC1 and ACT as normal, but there is also an ATS signal going to the AC amplifier. the GT does not have this. What to do?

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jan 13, 2015 - 10:07 AM

[bsamps4]

I have a 3s compressor if you need it, but to my knowledge you don't need to change anything to get the 5s compressor to work.

[Smaay]

thanks the engine came with a compressor, i just wanted to use the GT system since I never opened it

[njccmd2002]

Im not using any signals from ecu to ac in the 2gr. It will suck

[Smaay]

so i took the 205 harness apart today. well what i had, i discovered that I dont think a 205 harness needs to be extended. open the harness up and re-route the leads going to the ECU and body harness.

im sure a complete harness might need some wires adjusted but with what I have, i might get lucky.

[Smaay]

ok here is a picture of the harness with all the loom removed.


the run going down to the bottom left of the picture leads to the ECU. in the top left is where it was cut. They cut off the fuse and EA1, positive battery, coil, and igniter. they also cut off my fuel rail.

So what im hoping is that i can just rotate the wiring so that it will run along the injectors and then come down the right side to the normal firewall location. Ill salvage wiring from a GT harness for what i need and maybe have to extend a few wires. This might not be that bad at all

[bsamps4]

On the right track! Still doesn't look like a picnic.

[luka]

awesome work!

I need to get my swap going too

[Smaay]

for the code 54 fix, what is the wattage needed for the 1K resistors? will 1/4 watt be enough? 1/2? or 1 watt?

[Box]

Just go with what's biggest that'll easily fit. Higher the wattage the more it can dissipate without catching fire. Catching fire is never fun.

[Batman722]

1/2 watt should be fine.

[Smaay]

Just go with what's biggest that'll easily fit. Higher the wattage the more it can dissipate without catching fire. Catching fire is never fun.

very true

1/2 watt should be fine.

awesome, thanks Dustin!!!

[Smaay]

Tore the engine apart, its a good thing I did. the rod bearings showed serious wear. This is exactly why I dont support JDM engines, you never know what you are going to get. You spend more money tearing it down and rebuilding it with new parts.

the bearings on the left were under the rod, the right were under the rod cap. this is a sign of poor oil changes, more than factory boost, or detonation. I replaced all the bearings with ACL.





Im doing a build thread much like the 7A-FE build i wrote. step by step building a 3S-GTE.. it will have its own thread.

[Box]

Those Japanese people sure are rough on their cars.

[Smaay]

yeah im sure they abuse the hell out of them, knowing they have to be changed every 60K KM

[Smaay]

well the engine is in. i need a few more -6 A/N fittings to finish the fuel lines. I set the intercooler on and it looks like the stock hood isnt gonna clear. My ignorance is showing, is this true? with the top mount intercooler the hood wont clear?

is there an aftermarket CF hood that does the job? Im starting to lean towards FMIC on this project as well.

[Box]

From what I've seen you have to use the ST-205 hood to clear the TMIC. There is an aftermarket carbon fiber hood that's done in the GT-Four style, but is fitted for the regular bumper, it should work if it's identical aside from where it meets the bumper cover. Honestly if it were me for what it'd cost for the hood you can do a FMIC and you'll gain a little performance thanks to reduced intake temps.

Also you can get a black intercooler and go with the sleeper look if you so desire.

[kloudkicka]

I ran into the same problem, yes you can close your stock hood over the top mount intercooler, but once you start driving and you open your hood afterwards, your top mounts gonna be pretty scratched up, it will be rubbing against your hood the entire time which is not a good thing, this just gave me an excuse to do the gt-four conversion lol

[Smaay]

thanks for the info guys. Im leaning more towards FMIC. im sure I could sell off the TMIC and brackets to recoup the cost in parts. Plus I still need a heat exchanger and water pump if I run the WTA.

[enderswift]

I added 1 inch spacers to the hinges of my gt hood and trimmed the webbing back. Looked fine and closed fine. No need for a gt4 hood

This post has been edited by enderswift: May 31, 2015 - 10:48 AM

[Smaay]

I added 1 inch spacers to the hinges of my gt hood and trimmed the webbing back. Looked fine and closed fine. No need for a gt4 hood

what does that look like in the back? pics please

[qatar11]

I added 1 inch spacers to the hinges of my gt hood and trimmed the webbing back. Looked fine and closed fine. No need for a gt4 hood

interesting.. you don't have any heat issue?

[Batman722]

We did the same on Stef's car when the 3sgte was in it.
Same thing - trimmed the bracing under the hood and spacers to raise the hood a bit in the back (not a fan of that look). We also pulled out the rubber trim between the hood and cowl and that made a good difference with heat escaping.

[Smaay]

pics please.

[enderswift]

Like Dustin says, the rear gap actually helps vent heat

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jun 1, 2015 - 11:11 PM

[qatar11]

We did the same on Stef's car when the 3sgte was in it.
Same thing - trimmed the bracing under the hood and spacers to raise the hood a bit in the back (not a fan of that look). We also pulled out the rubber trim between the hood and cowl and that made a good difference with heat escaping.

Like Dustin says, the rear gap actually helps vent heat

Huh... who knew?

[Smaay]

thats not too bad looking. I think we can get away with that for awhile

[Smaay]

ok gurus, having a problem. engine will not start. it sputters like its trying to but just wont start. I have spark at the plugs. I believe im getting fuel, however when i took the plugs out they were not very wet.

I built this harness pretty much from scratch, i did take the resistor box out of the loop and im using high impedance top feed injectors. so the wiring for injectors is like a stock GT. constant power on one leg and the ECU grounds the other.

i did a compression test and got 140 across the board. seems a bit low. i checked my cam timing and its dead on.

[Box]

Have you tried starting with the throttle open, could be the IACV screwing with you. Only other things I'd think to test is the MAP and fuel pressure. I'm sure you've already checked things like fuses, relays, and firing order.

Cranking pressure seems a little low, but since it's consistent it shouldn't be causing issues.

[Smaay]

i figured it out. turned out to be bad wiring to the distributor. I also had 2 sticking injectors. once those were fixed, its all up and running. got some new questions now.

this vacuum line i have in a loop, what does it go to?



this nipple on the intercooler, where does it go?


these 2 nipples on the BOV, where to they go?



im still getting code 54. i followed the guide on the above website, however that guide is intended to be done at the plug to the water pump. I did the work at the ECU pins. Im starting to think I need to do it as if I installed a 205 setup in a 185. I need to add a relay and do the other diagram. right now i have nothing in pin C 22 (INT) does the ECU want to see a load on that as if its tripping the relay?

i also have the intercooler level sensor grounded. from what i have read if you have the full harness, you just unplug the sensor and short the pins in the plug so this should be the same thing.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jun 12, 2015 - 10:26 PM

[Smaay]

I think i need to do this to defeat code 54 at the ECU connections

[enderswift]

The nipped at the charge cooler is for the ac idle up valve. That's an aftermarket bov, so it's tough to say exactly what the vacuum connections should be. I would just figure it out through trial and error. I'm pretty sure you need a specific resistor at the level sensor

[Smaay]

thats the OEM BOV. maybe because my engine is a WRC?

the gtfours website says to just bridge the coolant level, so so just grounding it should do the job, according to the drawings.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jun 13, 2015 - 9:40 AM

[enderswift]

Just Googled it. You are correct about the bov. I'm surprised Toyota changed something like that. Can't think of any benefit for doing so

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jun 13, 2015 - 11:12 AM

[Box]

Didn't the WRC cars have anti-lag? Could have something to do with that.

[Smaay]

it had provisions for an anti lag but it was never used. so the nipple on the intercooler is for AC idle up, I can just cap that.

still looking for an answer on the stock BOV, there are 2 nipples on it. which one needs to be used?

[cardshark525]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=81978

Last pic is about the most detailed information I could find on it.

Another pic (happens to be my engine lol):
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/supershann...st2058.jpg.html

This post has been edited by cardshark525: Jun 14, 2015 - 11:11 AM

[Smaay]

thanks for the pics but they really didnt help much.

The first link does help a little.

[presure2]

the pic you posted is the anti lag valve. the stock BPV is connected to the airbox.
the level sensor just needs the 2 wires bridged.
the relay mod at the ecu is the only way to kill the code 54 at the ecu, you need the water pump plug to do the resistor mod.

[Smaay]

the pic you posted is the anti lag valve. the stock BPV is connected to the airbox.
the level sensor just needs the 2 wires bridged.
the relay mod at the ecu is the only way to kill the code 54 at the ecu, you need the water pump plug to do the resistor mod.

the pic you posted is the anti lag valve. the stock BPV is connected to the airbox.
so i should just remove this valve all together, I can put a BOV in this position. I didnt get the stock BPV with the engine

the level sensor just needs the 2 wires bridged.
the relay mod at the ecu is the only way to kill the code 54 at the ecu, you need the water pump plug to do the resistor mod.
Yep did both of these, i have beat code 54, thanks again

So far i think i can just cap the nipple coming off the intercoler, the 2 hard lines on the manifold for anti lag that go into the valve need to be capped. install BOV where the anti lag valve is.

[presure2]

the pic you posted is the anti lag valve. the stock BPV is connected to the airbox.
the level sensor just needs the 2 wires bridged.
the relay mod at the ecu is the only way to kill the code 54 at the ecu, you need the water pump plug to do the resistor mod.

the pic you posted is the anti lag valve. the stock BPV is connected to the airbox.
so i should just remove this valve all together, I can put a BOV in this position. I didnt get the stock BPV with the engine

the level sensor just needs the 2 wires bridged.
the relay mod at the ecu is the only way to kill the code 54 at the ecu, you need the water pump plug to do the resistor mod.
Yep did both of these, i have beat code 54, thanks again

So far i think i can just cap the nipple coming off the intercoler, the 2 hard lines on the manifold for anti lag that go into the valve need to be capped. install BOV where the anti lag valve is.

yup, you can install the bov where the anti lag valve is.

everything you said sounds correct to me jeff.
sorry i havent replied sooner, i dont hit t he site very often anymore. best to contact me on facebook directly.

[Smaay]

Thanks Manny.

[Smaay]

just an update, car is running strong and no code 54. no code at all actually. I still like my V6 better

[chacha]

i have the jdm 3sgte from an st205, have the uk spec egr assembly and all, where the red plug (VSV) with the male adapter, which wire connects here, or because it is a euro egr for the st205 and i have a jdm that the wire won't exist to connect...



This post has been edited by chacha: Oct 8, 2015 - 4:14 AM