7gc GT-turbo vs 6gc 3s swap, what do you think? Options

[Ryu3x16]

who would win?.. I got a chance to see a 7gc GT-turbo in action the other day...it looked fast.. its running at 4psi low boost..and 8 psi at high pushing..200hp at 8psi.. thats basically it... do you think a 6gc 3s swap can eat up this 7gen turbo-gt?
or can the 7g turbo-gt spank us?

[shid]

Don't be stupid Gee.

You'd own him by so much.

Friggin 7th geners don't know ****

"whats a 3s? some celicas came with turbos? man! that white gt turbo is the fastest thing here!"

etc etc etc.

*-rolls eyes*

frankly, I'll be challenging every 7th gen celica I see at the toyota meet.. with your car as my car of course.

Although our GT can beat their GT *rolls eyes*

[RedSunCelica]

[Drocay]

you'd rape it.

[RyCeCuBe]

ok i'm not gonna make a bad impression on my first post but i DO drive a 7th gen so here i go...sure gee's got the power/torque advantage but his car is purdy heavy compared to the 7th gens and once that GT turbo spools up, u never know how fast it would accelerate. when i compared it in my head, i think it evens out...the thing is, i've been in gee's car n that thing is a rocket!...i've never seen that GT turbo move an inch at the meet..man, i wanted u two do a short to run that day.

and shid..please, just cuz 7th geners don't know **** duzn't mean their car's ain't ****

so my conclusion...pretty much an even match...if one wins it's gonna be a close one...y didn't i simply ask u guys 2 run!!?

[moltar]

Sixth gens are prettier though!!!!!!!1

[shid]

Hey Ryce- btw, the 7th gens and the 6th gen hatches weigh the same

Ryce, I'm sorry, but I have no respect for the 7th gens. I'm sure you're different, hell, you KNOW that generations before your car exist- but a lot of them don't- and on everythingcelica.com; almost all I've run into are IDIOTS who don't know **** about their car, or anyone elses. THe type of people who claim that you gain low end torque with a 3 inch exhaust.

It wouldn't be a close race, Gee's 3s swap would own him.


(and every generation, celicas get slower and slower.. 7th gens are even slower than the slow 6th gen.. Lift is wannabe turbo. and I dont even like their looks. Sorry if that offends you- but your generation got screwed over in the engine department :/ )

As for you personally, from what I've heard from Gee, and what I've seen you post on ecelica.com; you're a very cool guy.

[RyCeCuBe]

haha nice to know and thanks..yes, what shid say about ecelica is true..but i've learned quite a few things about my car from ecelica..n i think maybe you're runnin into the wrong bunch people..my only explanation to that is prolly cuz most of em get the 7th gens just for the looks..most of u don't like em but they do attract a lot of attention..and u know what they say about people who only go for show....they dunno jack about performance..haha o and about the engine..yea toyota just decided to try vtec out..n i guess it wasn't all that..but the 2000 gt-s n up is pretty much the fastest celica that made it to the US..stock engine of course hp means nothing..i understand that the gt-four back in 93 had the 200 hp 3sgte engine...but on stock engine 4wd would cause lag and stand no chance at the newer 2z engine. and if you're talkin about GT's...call it a drivers race..but i've beated a black 95 GT on the tracks and ryu was there to witness it.

ps. shid, my car weighs bout a couple hundred lbs less than urs.

This post has been edited by RyCeCuBe: Jul 6, 2004 - 3:29 AM

[macavely]

well seeing as my mom needs a newer car i was looking at a used 7th gen GT for her and doing my homework again checking out all the performance, just cuase my mom has never owned a car with less the 200hp at the wheels.. so the car will need some work. I was thinking turbo.. and looking at HKS turbo kit for the GT with claims to give you 250whp with 7psi.. if that guys turbo set up is anything like then i would pay to see a video of that race.. but have the race on a track and not a drag strip.

[97sccelica]

i would say they would be about even.

the 7gc may run lower boost, but the engine has higher compression, which will make for more power gained per increase in PSI

RyCeCuBe

a 7gc may have almost as much power as a stock alltrac(5th gen) but what the alltrac has is more traction than a fwd celica could ever have.

ever been in AWD launch? lag doesnt mean anything. rev up to 5krpm, slip the clutch till the car starts moving, and then ease it out a little quickly. turbo spools instantly and you have a 3-4 car lead.

i have done it in my wrx a few times, and the first time, it launched so hard that when i was thrown back in my seat, my legs/feet were also pulled back off the pedals.

1/4 mile, an alltrac and 7gc GTS are equal, and on a track a alltrac would have a slight advantage

but rolling runs is where the GTS is at home. the car has a freeway flyer powerband.

[RyCeCuBe]

macavely..
i don't think i've ever seen a turbo kit for the 7th gen GT by hks..they've got turbo chargers and components..but i dunno about a full kit... =T that'd be nice if they do..friggin 7th gens need all the aftermarket parts they can get.
97sccelica..
so there's a way to launch with a 4wd...your method sounds like a very good one..prolly the best..and no i never been in a 4 wd launch..but on a 2.0 stock turbo engine..it's not gonna do much against the 7gc gt-s cuz weight is one of the biggest enemy in a drag race...ever been in a gt-s? there's also a method for fwd torque-shy cars...leave it at 5-6 rpm, dump the clutch, release gas about halfway, catch traction, lift kicks in instantly, floor it then you've got a 3-4 car lead (considering the gt-four lagged for too much traction hehe)...i guess since the hp engine size ratio of the two (100 hp per liter) turns out to be even, let's call it a drivers race...cuz it's a fact..most of the damn racers out there dunno how to drive for ****...specially on the tracks.

[macavely]

[Jeremy1210]

Wouldn't the 3sgte win b/c of the torque kicking in at the lower RPMs? I mean it has 200 hp and 200 torque. The torque kicks in at like 3500 prms where the 7gc has to wait till 7200(?? I know its high though). The 7gc only has like 135 torque... From everything I have read, this makes a big difference in speed

[poix]

[macavely]

[RedSunCelica]

The way i see it is both cars have good potential. the 3s is good becuase people already know how much power it can kick out with a few extra goodies. The 1zz is still a new engine, tuners are still blowing the motors trying to see what works and what doesnt work. dont you think tuner shops blew a few 4a and 3s motors before they realized what was good and what was bad for it?!?! I say give the 1zz a few more years and super chargers and turbo kits will be readily available for higher boost. sure there are some already out but manufactures are building better and greater things off of that platform of the current turbo/supercharger platforms.

As for the 2zz motor, i think that motor is better off being a full NA motor. Probably even replacing the 4age motor .(it can happen) The compression is just a little to high to boost at high levels, plus to me and this is only my opinion i believe high compression and high reving motors should be left NA and not turbo'ed.

So as far as this goes i like the 6gc looks and performance and i also like the 7th gens looks and performance. Both where meant for the auto x / circuit track and not really for drag racing.


Just my 2 cents.

[Phat_Boi]

What about a fixed up Turbo GT-S? I think there's one GT-S that's turbo (I dunno, I haven't really kept up with 7th gen Celica's) but I think it would give the 3SGTE a run for its money.

[shid]

[Ryu3x16]

[shid]

The 7th gen GT celica has 135hp and 125 torque. the GT-S has 180hp and 130 torque- but keep in mind that 180hp is ONLY during lift.. it's like a (dont mean this in offense to any 7gcs) wannabeturbo.


And the comments on the rpm range of the 7th gen vs 3sgte are very valid; as far as 7th gen peak hp points- they're WAYYY high up in the rpm range because of the variable timing.. Other cars can shift lower, faster and fall into their peak torque range right after a shift.

[hata]

i dont even consider 7th gens as real celica's...they have the "celica badge" but its a whole different car.

3SGTE handz down. I dont care even if it waz a 4th gen All-trac...

[97sccelica]

[RyCeCuBe]

the 7th gen gt celica has 140..yea only 5 hp difference but 140 is the correct bhp that my engine produces...you're right about 125 lb tq though.

the lift on the gt-s starts at 6000rpm i'm sure it's not 7200 <--that's a lil too late..and with 6 close gears, u'll always be at lift for kick ass acceleration...turboing it is NOT a good idea cuz of the high compression setting..the engine could take so much...that XS engineering kit is ONLY for the gt-s...hmmm..i think that's all i had to say...

o and i agree with everything redsuncelica said.

i just saw the post right above...it's just the way u launch it..i've got videos of good ass drivers that perform perfect launches on their gt-s.. looks sweet and he did get 3-4 car length ahead his opponent. so i'm thinkin maybe ur just too used to the traction of 4wd cars n didn't launch the gt-s that u drove properly. it duz take practice.

This post has been edited by RyCeCuBe: Jul 7, 2004 - 3:15 AM

[neoklis]

I dont think its merely practice or driving abilities. Its also a matter of traction. Think of it this way; the gt4 puts power to the ground with all 4 wheels but the 7gen only on 2 wheels. for simplicity purposes, 2 cars with the same power, same tyres, same weight but one is awd, the awd will spin the tyres at twice the power to the ground due to traction. I know a guy with a highly modded 3S-GTe swap and that car could spin in 3rd and 4th gear. 450bhp will do that to a car.

[RyCeCuBe]

^^ u didn't know we were talkin bout stock cars only? see, my theory is that 4wd cars need the right amount of boost to perform just like ur modded 450 hp 3s friend. with stock engine..it's gonna need some help.

[remjay]

[Mr7AFE]

ill be finding out very soon. a guy with a turbo 7gen gts wants to race
me. ill tell you guys what happens. maybe try to get picks or vids if
someone has a dig cam.

[Ryu3x16]

you're racing a turbo'd GTS with a 7afe?.. i think the GTS turbo is pretty vicious.. I was talkin about the GT turbos... but thats great.. you found something stronger and faster to race... keep us updated..

[97sccelica]

[poix]

[shid]

[RyCeCuBe]

[Ryu3x16]

i have a friend with a 3s swap with fmic..and he killed a wrx..hehe... Toyceli8

[Ryu3x16]

[RyCeCuBe]

^^ the 7th gens r very simple since there's only 2 engine models. hehe

[97sccelica]

[RyCeCuBe]

o cool, if u want...i can send u sum of their vids through aim. im me at "rycecube" and i can send it through there

[TRDCelicaFan]

Bottom line: The 2ZZGE cannot stand upto the the maximum potential power output of the 3S-GTE. Period. Have you any idea how high you can take a GTE? It's turbo from the off. It's designed for big power. The 2ZZGE is an N/A engine that people just happened to have made turbos for as an aftermarket/custom part. Those two scenarios are just not the same.

Granted, any race between any 2 cars is partially dependant on to what degree both cars have been tuned but if we're talking an extreme 6gc Vs. an extreme example of a 7gc, I just don't see the 7th gen winning. Stock GTE's can be anything upto 255bhp (depending on the car they came out of, generation of engine, what territory you're in blah, blah, blah). If you can take 2ZZGE upto 255bhp, I'd say you're onto a pretty good thing. The JDM spec GTE from the ST-205 STARTS there. I've seen the lower UK spec (235bhp) taken to well over 400bhp. I don't know exactly what a JDM engine would run to. I know traction is an issue for both cars, being FF, so you wouldn't want to go to those power levels in either (Well, I wouldn't, save that for the GT-Four.) But you get the idea.

Now don't think for one minute I'm dissin' 7gcs cos I'm not. I like all Celicas and a helluva lot of other Toyotas/general Jap performance cars besides. So I don't want to stir up any animosity, both are cool cars and as fellow lovers of Toyota we should all just get along. I'm just voicing my opinion, that's all.

P.S. 6th gen Celicas aren't that heavy ya know.....

[Mr7AFE]

[Ryu3x16]