 almost just raced a prelude |
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 Sep 25, 2004 - 8:57 PM
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Enthusiast  Joined Apr 22, '04 From Rhode Island Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%)  |
at a stop light we both stopped then we didnt go right off the bat so i gave it a little bit of gas and was like 2 car lengths ahead of him then all of a sudden i just hear squealing tires and a rideciously loud sound (but nice) so i didnt want to embaress myself, so i just stopped.
he would of owned me huh. |
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Sep 25, 2004 - 8:59 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) |
i eat preludes for lunch.
-------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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Sep 25, 2004 - 9:04 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
you probably eat alot of things for lunch
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Sep 25, 2004 - 9:10 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
nothing personal, but this thread is worthless.
i almost raced a geo metro the other day. -------------------- i am awesome
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Sep 25, 2004 - 9:22 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 22, '04 From Rhode Island Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%) |
nothing personal, but ur post is worthless, i didnt ask for u to judge if this thread was worht anything, i was bored and just wrote about what happend a little wihle ago.
lagos how bout u come up here and help me swap a 3sgte . then ill eat preludes for lunch to This post has been edited by DamDirtyApes: Sep 25, 2004 - 9:33 PM |
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Sep 25, 2004 - 10:51 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Anaheim, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
meh unless its turbocharged or has MAJOR na mods preludes are too heavy, they are quick, but no match for even a 7afte/5sfte setup, let alone a 3sgte swap what you heard was most likely him revving it up and dumping the clutch to catch up. -------------------- 1994 Celica GT4 WRC Edition
@gt4.wrc on Instagram |
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Sep 25, 2004 - 11:51 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
my auto ST took a prelude off a line... by about half a car length... but the person sucked at shifting....
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Sep 26, 2004 - 12:09 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jan 8, '04 From LA Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Unless they're vtec or medium mods, they're nothing special
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Sep 26, 2004 - 12:20 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jun 10, '03 From FL Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
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Sep 26, 2004 - 12:51 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
16.9 what is that a stock 6 gen st?
i like my prelude but my celi was probably faster and i like it a lot more. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 26, 2004 - 1:43 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) |
id be all about it, if you just lived closer to me. -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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Sep 26, 2004 - 6:24 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Nov 12, '02 From Webster Ma. Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
normal preludes are slow. ive never raced one with the h22 but ive raced a civic with one. he runs 14's flat im not there yet lol needless to say he won.
-------------------- |
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Sep 26, 2004 - 9:05 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 22, '04 From Rhode Island Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%) |
this guy defintly had something going on under the hood. my friend has a 98 prelude with vtec and they sounded nothing alike. i thought for a second i heard a bov but not sure.
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:11 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Mar 30, '03 From Cyprus Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
DamDirtyApes you are not from the Greek island Rhodes right???
 Guys to race a Prelude with Swap isnt big deal....to race a turbo prelude with swap,then you got a point I know Preludes are really fast cars....especially at High RPMs cuz its the point that they gain the power...but....are not Toyota
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:56 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Sep 28, '03 From Bloomington, IN Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I raced a 4th gen prelude VTEC. I held up even with him, then I shifted into 3rd, and pulled real well
-------------------- NASA/SCCA RX-7....currently under the knife
92 Civic hatch B16 - Sold 10th anniv RX-7 - RIP The Slow Celica - Sold...and then crushed crushed due to street racing. Quote from Seinfeild: George's Boss reading a magazine: "People magazine's most beautiful people. Oh and a Celica...nothin wrong with that!" |
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Sep 26, 2004 - 10:10 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
yeah for the power they come with stock, the h22 preludes suck. i raced one with headers, intake, and a catback, and he pulled about 2 cars on me. we went up to about 110mph. for a car that has close to 200hp, i would expect a little better than that against a car with 135hp. the thing is they dont have a whole lot of torque
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Sep 26, 2004 - 10:15 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
thats what i hate about hondas and love about toyotas torque. by the time that these honda guys put a intake, intake manifold, header, and a huge exaust on it. torques probably come down from stock about 10 foot pounds. plus they make whatever torque than can up around 4-5 rpms
-------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 26, 2004 - 10:17 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 22, '04 From Rhode Island Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%) |
eh im just babbling on , i know its only a honda. but my car is dam slow, and that sucks
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Sep 26, 2004 - 10:39 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Uhhuh... one occasion doesn't mean you'll do it consistanly. I think you either don't know what you're talking about, or you're talking out of your ass. Sure ludes are heavy... but our AUTO H22 lude has laid down low 15 second runs...  B.S. if you ask me...
Unfortunately, you don't know what you're talking about either. Yes toyotas make nice torque, but it's not the torque in this case. ALL of the Preludes from gen 4 and up make more torque than a 5SFE. The lowest of the bunch is the F22A and that's a SOHC motor... so I wouldn't bring up the torque factor. The H23 and H22 both make nearly 160 ft lbs of torque... so what are you complaining about? The only thing a Toyota would have on the Lude is torque response... which is a lot faster and ends sooner. That's NOT a performance motor. Either way, it's not thr torque. Mods don't decrease torque.... ever... unless the idiot owners are stupid enough to install a 3 inch exhaust or something. In other words, you're complaining about the owners, and NOT the cars... so just shut it. Also, torque in the higher rpms (4-5k rpms) is a LOT more useful than torque in the low-end (2-4k rpms). Of course, torque throughout the entire powerband would be ideal, but it rarely happens with n/a 4 cyclinders. Honestly now... you guys are acting like Ludes are slow or something... Have you ever driven one? If not... keep the negative comments about a car you know little of to yourselves. Honda bashing is getting old... especially when it comes from people who don't know anything about the cars. Go ahead and bash the owners who f-u-c-k up the cars... but don't bash the car itself. A lude will hand almost any of you, your ass on a silver platter. -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:01 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 20, '03 From Annapolis, Md Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) |
so you wanna help me when i might possible do mine.. 
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:06 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 4, '04 From Tampa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I had a 94 ST and crashed it, then i traded the wreck plus $$ for a '93 Prelude Si. Itn not a vtec but its a 2.3 H23a. Let me tell you its way faster than my 6GC ST was any day. It even accelerates faster than my firiends '96 6gc GT. I was contemplating getting another GT but now im happy that I went Honda and bought my lude.
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:07 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 4, '04 From Tampa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I had a 94 ST and crashed it, then i traded the wreck plus $$ for a '93 Prelude Si. Itn not a vtec but its a 2.3 H23a. Let me tell you its way faster than my 6GC ST was any day. It even accelerates faster than my firiends '96 6gc GT. I was contemplating getting another GT but now im happy that I went Honda and bought my lude.
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:13 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 4, '04 From Tampa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
sorry i posted twice
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:16 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
umm i own a 3rd gen 2.2l si currently so im gonna go ahead and talk and most of my friends own hondas and well guess what i drive them sometimes. so i do have a reason to talk. and running a free flow exaust (no cats and a 2.75") exaust you DO i repeat DO lost torque. also I DO frequent the honda boards. AND i feel that my celica WAS faster than my 3rd gen (keeping im mind the fact that it ISNT vtec and is auto) also what i mean about "thats why i hate hondas" guess what i was talking about honda motors not the h22 or the h22a's all hondas even the k seris motors even with basic mods and 200 to the wheels ill bet my celica made more torque than it. as for honda bashing you cant really say that either. i mean yeah i complained about the torque but i mean toyotas cant really make power in the high end on the other hand hondas can. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:33 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Are you testing my Honda knowledge? Hehe... first off... the 3rd gens only came in 2.0 and 2.1. We had a 91 2.1 SI with ABS (came with either ABS or 4WS) a few years back as a project car. Was a nice car, and was definately a lot faster than any Celica (well, most 4th-5th-6th gens). You are entitled to your opinion, but not all cars are created equally. The reason you lose torque... you're running a BLOODY HUGE exhaust. Any bigger than 2.25 on an n/a 4 cyclinder is overkill. Exhaust velocity means a lot. I did mention that didn't I? Maybe you should judge yourself also. And no... you'll get handed by the new Honda K series. They make more torque that your 5SFE. The 5SFE is just not designed to compete with those motors... so stop that argument. The Honda K series is probably one of the best n/a 4 cylinders built to date. They make almost as much horsepower per liter as the S2000 F20C, their torque response is definately better, and they have stock forged internals, are a perfect square design, and can easily rev up to 9k rpms. What's not to love? As far as hating Hondas... give me a better reason than "low torque" as to why you dislike hondas. Tell me they burn oil, tell me their valves leak after a while, tell me anything aside from "low torque" and I won't fight you. Finally, that last part of your topic is completely opposite of everything you just said... so figure it out man... Good riddence... This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Sep 26, 2004 - 11:33 PM -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:10 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 10, '03 From Appleton,WI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Kwanza is my hero...
--------------------  A Jaws4God Creation... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:21 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
oh im not done, ive yet to make a complete fool of myself.
nope i didnt say anything about testing your honda knowledge. and i do apoligize for saying the b21a1 was 2.2l and yeah your right 2056cc's. and just for the record honda all wheel stering sucks. turning radius dosnt improve that much my friends mercury mystique has a better turning radius then the lude.
you did i was just brining it back up
i didnt say i would i just said it and the 5s had comparable torque. k seris are great motors trust me my friends k22 - k22a conversion is a blast.
ok i will the oil rings go so ****ing easily and the whole interferiance (butchered that word) engine sucks. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:29 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
True... Hondas traditionally have oiling problems... but so do Toyota motors. Things like rings is almost always based on abuse, which Honda motors usually take the blunt end of. Here's a reason why Honda motors are very high in quality: Take VTEC... all of those little rockers, all of those little pins, all of those little parts all designed to move at VERY high RPMS, all very small and pretty fragile, all covered under warantee with barely any problems. That's tough to do... in terms of engineering. I think a lot of anti-honda people dislike Hondas simply because of the image the Honda owners have portrayed the cars in recent years. They honestly (from a mechanics point of view), make a nice soild engine, and they do make nice solid cars. -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:35 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 10, '03 From Appleton,WI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I have to agree with Kwanza. People know Hondas are great cars but most "enthusiasts" just decide to jump on the bandwagon and say "Hondas suck."
Stupid. -------------------- A Jaws4God Creation... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:41 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
wow i feel i almost redeemed my self there.
-------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:02 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 2, '02 From Portland, Oregon Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I agree... the civic is the main reason honda has such a bad name. Not the car... but just about every little ricer out there that knows nothing about cars except how they sound and what kind of system is in it are civic drivers. Of course there are some people that actually know something about their cars... but it seems as though the majority of those people drive civics... probably due to their inexpensive quality and great gas milage.. so parents have no guffs when coughing up the dough to buy their kids one. Honda motors, however, are solid.
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:20 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
i totally disagree with the fact the hondas are soild motos thyre all right but i would go to say solid(i am just talking generaly about the b seris motors because i know nothing of any other honda seris).
what they last forever i hear that all the time. well ive seen a ford with 260,000 on it and still ran pretty good. toyotas do that (with the exclusion of the turboed motors) volvo motors do that. now b seris motors are known to have horrible issues with the alternator and the a/c. and the valves, oh the valves im not even gonna go into the valves here now 127hp out of a 1.6l a feat? no not in the least ive seen what 225 out of the atlantica 4age. now 225hp out of a NA 1.6l now thats a feat. oh and i think its funny how everyone agrees with kwanza and no one disputes what he says. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:23 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jan 1, '03 From LB gizzie, cali Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
yeah..true.. honda's are great cars.... my cousin has a integra powered by h22 with greddy headers, intake and 5zigen exhaust system..and the car was kinda stripped... he beat lots of cars..i'm not even gonna lie, its FAST... anyways we took it out for a little run against my 3s swap (with TMIC).. off the line i took him (maybe it's because i did a better launch) then we shifted into 2nd i pulled on him about a fender and he held with me all the way i couldn't pull away much more.. I honestly thought that he would beat me but hey... anyways..uh..yeah..blah blah
honestly..why i don't try to dispute with kwanza is because i don't know much or maybe nothing about honda's other than they are king of rice.. This post has been edited by Ryu3x16: Sep 27, 2004 - 1:38 AM -------------------- [color=#FF0000] I MISS MY RED BABY =(
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:43 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
All that work to redeem yourself... *sigh* B series motors are tough and they make a lot of power. You bring up 3 of the engines I have the most vast experience with (D15/16, B series, 4AGs) so i gotta break them down a bit for you. B16/18s are good engines. We have a B16A set-up with ITBS and it runs beautifully. The motor has been beaten up on for most of this year, and we have not had any major problems with it. It's eaten nitrious, ran with bad tuning, dragged with a leaky head gasket, and recently, when taken apart, everything was CLEAN. This was almost always the case with the B series motors I worked on. We've spun this engine on almost a daily basis up to 8.5 rpms and it took the abuse since we've had it (had it since march). The engine still runs beautifully, even on crappily tuned ITBs... That's gotta say a bit about how tough this motor is. D series Honda motors are tough... why? Cause they've been in service, and are still in service since the early 80's. That alone has to say a bit about how well designed the engine is. Of course all engines have their problems, but if they're still being used... it's a good design. They do make some decent power also, and respond very well to nitrious. With modifications readily available and backed by Companies like Skunk2 and such, these engines have fair potential. Finally to compare the 2 above mentioned to the 4AGs... well, I'm afraid to say the 4AG may measure up to the D16 in terms of making power, it will not make as much streetable power as the D16. The D16 has far more buildability because it can be bored and stroked to some degree, while the 4AGs can't (5A/7A strokers, yes, but very limited bore). The formula atlantic 4AG should not be used as a comparison because even though it makes good power, it is NOT a streetable motor and is not an engine people can build and use on the street. MOST 16V 4AGs don't make more than 200 hp without very serious work. As unlikely as it sounds, I've seen D15/16 n/a motors that put out comparable numbers to streetable built 4AGs. I love the 4AGs... but I'll admit, it's not because they can make a fair amount of power. The D16's can almost match the 16V 4AGs... Oh... and go ahead and try to dispute what I say. It's all good and I never take these things personally. I'll just ask you this... have I been totally incorrect, yet still refuse to acknowledge the opposing side? Have I passed completely wrong information? Have I used my personal opinion to sway the facts? I'm merely clearifying things that are said which are based off of pure opinion... >>>Edited in<<<< I wanted to show you this also... My old 4AG that froze because of oiling problems... Work of beauty... Engines break... there's no way around that... This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Sep 27, 2004 - 1:51 AM -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:51 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
i wouldnt say youve been incorect i would say you could defintly argue the whole honda isnt a solid motor. as dor your opinion how could you ever argue with out using your opinion its virtuatly impossible. and just for the record arguing is the best way to learn imo, ive learned a lot from this. anyways why do people say the 4age is not a streetable motor, because the powerband is soo high? also ITB's, your talking about throttle bodies right? -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:01 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jan 1, '03 From LB gizzie, cali Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
kwanza...i've notice that..how come everytime you post in a thread..you end up starting some kind of argument against other members?... everytime a member post in a thread you come out of no where and call them ignorant and so on.. and then you go and talk about how great a honda motor is and how much you know about them..... same thing over and over in lots of thread.. i don't mean to offend you but that's just what i've notice
-------------------- [color=#FF0000] I MISS MY RED BABY =(
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:02 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Of course... but I don't really use my personal opinion (try not to) when I argue about Hondas. I don't like Hondas too much, I'll tell you that... but I have my "personal" reasons... ;] As for 4AGs... the reason they don't make a lot of streetable power is somewhat like you say... but there's also a bit more to it. Just to get a 4AG to the borderline non-streetability takes a lot of work and the results don't pay off. We're talking things like high-comp pistons, big duration/lift camshafts, upgraded valvetrain, shimless underbucket conversion, oversized valves, port/polish job, lightening... depending on the set-up... the power results are almost always not as high as people expect. My current set-up, Crower 272 Duration 8.3mm lift camshafts, TRD valve springs, Jun light flywheel (coomer's old flywheel), 2.25" exhaust to a resonator to a flowmaster 40, all on a smallport 4AG is only putting me around 130whp-140whp. My ae86 idles pretty smooth at 1400 rpms with very slight overlap, but any less than that, the engine overlaps badly and shakes. It drives great, is pretty quick... but if you knew exactly how easy it is to squeeze the same amount of power out of a D16... it would seem like an awful lot of work to do to a 4AG. A B16A with bolt-ons and tuning can make easily 140-150 whp... Yes... ITBs... Individual throttle bodies. Possibly the best EFI intake set-up for an n/a car... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:16 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
now i wouldnt go as far to say he does all this he does sometimes try to belittle people but kwanza will let you know when your wrong and most of the time when he tells you your wrong well you are. but he defintly deos like to belittle people. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:17 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
No offense taken. I usually only do this when I feel the members recieveing my barrage really is unsure why they're even talking. In this case, it's pretty easy. People bad talk Honda cars unneccesarily. I don't go all-out and call them ignorant unless they really do sound ignorant to me. Most people usually just confuse their dislike of Honda cars with their dislike of the brand's current image, which is being created by their owners. That to me, doesn't justify anything. I personally, like I mentioned before, don't really like Honda all that much either, but I wouldn't go as far as calling them bad cars. The arguments are always started when I come out with back-up information and my personal experience as to why Honda cars and engines are not as bad as some people seem to think they are. If they disagree and start making poor choices of words and arguments... we "discuss" it. If not, then It's done. This particular case... recneps at least knows and has a reason "why" and is discussing it with me... unlike some other topics (refer to last few pages of My CelicavsFriend Civic EX) where the persons involved, for a bit, have no reason aside from repeating they dislike Hondas. I'm actually a really nice guy, and try to help people out as much as I can with Tech questions and stuff. Like recneps said... we all learn from discussions like these... no? I'm not trying to get respect or anything like that. I just want you all to "try" and be considerate and "try" to understand and look at things from a different point of view before "joining the bandwagon." -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:18 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I wouldn't say belittle... cause that's not my intent. When it is... I'm pretty obvious about it. I just like good discussions... =] -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:51 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jun 29, '03 From canoga park , ca Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
lets face it guys hondas are turning into fords.. there all made in america, (not that thats a bad thing) but umm there just not imports. as for there engines i think vtec is horible... oh my god yes i said it again.... unless your going in a stright line vtec doesnt do anything for you. i will race any stock prelude up a hill or on a track. and kill him, over and over and over. trust me i have over and over and over. in my little st, which well isnt really stock at all anymore. but if vtec is god how come he couldnt keep up. maybe the driver? i dunno. either way an engine is an engine. a driver is a driver. and thats all there is to it basic stuff, here people basic stuff. as for a crx with an h22 swap.. now that one is a pain in the ass. but oh my god the power of those lil things, amazing simply amazing. sorry to piss anyone off. im just stuck in my ways. but i only speak from expirence.
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Sep 27, 2004 - 8:34 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
engines break.. did it just break or did you give it a 500 shot of nos? anyways 4age's are awesome. id like to think that if i bought a st id be able to swap in one but i doubt it. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 10:19 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Feb 10, '03 From Connecticut Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) |
mine are usually dinner. Although get this, I raced an E36 M3, but I had the boost down, so he beat me. Still dont have the Walbro in so I turned it down. But its killing me because I kno if i had the boost @12 I woulda spanked him. And he was cool, he said he was surprised at how fast it was. This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Sep 27, 2004 - 10:20 AM -------------------- |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:02 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Nov 27, '03 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
It all depends on the generation of the Prelude. My friends 3rd gen has many mods done to it and all I have is a CAI. I hold with him throughout the entire race
(b21a1 with CAI, Full exhaust, Cam gears, lightened flywheel, performance clutch, LSD, upgraded ignition and a few other things) . If its a 5th gen it already has the H22 in it but it is slow because of the weight of the dang things (almost 3700 lbs), if they turbo that engine you are screwed though. Even with a 3sgte swap it would be hard to beat a turbo h22 swapped anything, provided its done right. The 5th gen prelude will take a GT/ST (with minor mods), bone stock. They are fairly quick cars, and in my opinion very hot.
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:24 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
You have your opinion... but VTEC is good. It's designed so you can have high-end power where it counts in a race, but still have the primary cam lobes for the low-end keeping the car streetable, smogable, and clean. It's a rather brilliant design... and if It wasn't, manufactures like BMW, Porsche, and even Toyota would not be copying. VTEC is for PURE track. Acura Integras GSR/Type R's have been pretty much owning the stock classes for the better part of the 90's and even now. There are not a lot of stock cars in the same class than can out-run an Integra on the track... and it's all because of VTEC. Of course, VTEC also has been played out to an extent... but just compare 2 motors that are essentially the same, minus VTEC, and understand the differences in power they make. A B18B and B18C can make as much as 40-70 hp difference of each other, all because of VTEC. That's a lot... As for Hondas turning into Ford... Honda was the LAST Japanese company that was still privately owned by the Honda family. The CEO recently passed away, and the succesor, Mugen Honda, is probably not gonna take over, which leaves Honda to its stock holders. Quite honestly, they are probably the last pure import company... regardless of where the cars are assembled. -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:28 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
yeah but dosnt the B18C have a longer stroke and slightly increased compression like 50cc's or something.
anyways yeah vtec is good, it goes back to the point of the 3rd gen whos stock motor is comparable to the 5sfe. with a whole lot of mods cant beat a pretty much stock gt. hondas NEED vtec. This post has been edited by recneps: Sep 27, 2004 - 11:29 AM -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:44 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Did I mention the older B series are not related in any way to the newer B series? The last of the Prelude B series motors had a name changed and was called the H23. That was essentially the final version of the Prelude B series. The B series motors in the Integras and such are completely different. The easy way to tell, Prelude B sereis motors are mounted at an angle... As for the B18C and B18B... the B18B had a slightly taller stroke... but like you said, it wasn't much. I don't even think it was 50cc total... probably closer to 20-30cc. I forget exactly which is what. My point is, the motors are essentially identical. The B18B makes a better torque band, but that's only because it was designed to do so without VTEC. That doesn't mean Hondas *need* Vtec to make power, all it says is that they altered their designed to best utilize VTEC. Same deal with Toyota... the 1ZZFE was designed differently with a smaller bore and larger stroke than a 2ZZGE. Take for example, the K20A3 that came in the 2002+ Civic SI. It's a good motor, and although it claims to have VTEC, it has a different type of VTEC. This is an econo designed motor, similar to the old HX D15's back in the day. The engine runs on 3 valves per cyclinder (actually has 4) until its "VTEC" kicks in in the low rpms (~2000), which open up the 4th valve. This is done so chamber velocity is at its highest, making the best amount of torque. The base model RSX had the same motor, but they also incorporated intake manifold butterflys, similar to Toyota's TVIS system. These things together, do make for an engine that has very good low-end to mid-ranged response, and they do not utilize the traditional high lift multiple cam lobe VTEC. Honda does make good non-VTEC motors... but if they sell a lot of VTEC units... who cares? As for the old 3rd gen B20/21 vs the 5SFE... unfortunately, I'll disagree simply because the B20/21 can deliver more torque higher in the rpm band. True Dual Overhead Cams is the reason. The 5SFE makes torque, so you immediately feel the torque even at low throttle, while the B20/21 are pretty opposite... starting out flat and finishing up strong. I don't know what you guys did to your B20/21's... but ours was a 14 second car and was only modestly modified. I'm not saying the 5SFE is a bad engine... it's just not designed to do what a lot of people are looking for it to do. I've been there, and done that. -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:48 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
good lord, someone should rename this thread to the official defense for hondas....
lotta knowledge in here -------------------- i am awesome
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:50 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
No... no nitrious (just a silly name I came up with...). The car appearantly ran without oil and I bought it like that. We took the motor apart on a slow day at the shop and found rod caps in the oil pan and when the head came off, we found these pistons. Cylinders 1 and 3 were both like the picture... all because of lack of maintainence. Yeah... 4AGEs are pretty nice. They're just great to drive around, but... they're COMPLETELY opposite of the 7AFE and 5SFE... Pretty gutless. Some people who are used to the low-end response will not like the feel of that motor... A swap into a Celica ST would also be pretty easy also, IMO... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:27 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 4, '04 From Tampa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
sorry i meant i have a 4th gen 'lude, and its bad a$$
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:28 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 17, '03 From lakewood, ca Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
oh no not another honda arguement again
This post has been edited by kdash: Sep 27, 2004 - 1:29 PM |
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Sep 30, 2004 - 11:25 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
hey i used to own a honda. i like them alot, but they arent all that fast. i know my celica isnt either but whatever. if you want, ill get a camera next time and race the prelude again. the guy lives iin my area and i know the guy a little bit, so it shouldnt be hard. he didnt pull on me much. ive been beaten worse by stock cars with less hp. ive seen a couple preludes run at the track, and all ive seen is mid to high 15s out of them. |
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Oct 1, 2004 - 11:00 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
You know... If I wanted to see a race against a Prelude, I can simply walk across my yard, wake up my cousin, and run him right now. We HAVE a 5th gen Prelude, and that car will beat any of my cars. I hope you don't think I'm saying all of this stuff just from guesses... and yes, once again, my cars are faster than most of the Celica GT's here... every single one of my cars... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Oct 1, 2004 - 1:58 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Sep 10, '04 From san diego Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
for sure i love hondas...well i just love cars period...actualy imports,but yeah unless its some p.o.s prelude it going to take that 6 gen any day...i mean even really crappy cars can beat a celica...like he said if vtec wasnt good...then why have all the other companys use it now...you can throw mitsubisihi on the list too all there new car use it..honda might be crappy to you guys but..for the price to power you cant beat it...celica with out a 3sgte is use less...even the st turbo you cant even boost more then 6 psi safely...i think stock car with turbo boost more then that...i dont know about you guys but 170hp for all that money isnt worth it to me.....then again the celica is a way hotter car.. just my words....thats why you gott have both...a car for speed and a car for the babes just another reason why we need 6 gen gt-4 in the states |
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Oct 1, 2004 - 1:59 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 10, '04 From san diego Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
for sure i love hondas...well i just love cars period...actualy imports,but yeah unless its some p.o.s prelude it going to take that 6 gen any day...i mean even really crappy cars can beat a celica...like he said if vtec wasnt good...then why have all the other companys use it now...you can throw mitsubisihi on the list too all there new car use it..honda might be crappy to you guys but..for the price to power you cant beat it...celica with out a 3sgte is use less...even the st turbo you cant even boost more then 6 psi safely...i think stock car with turbo boost more then that...i dont know about you guys but 170hp for all that money isnt worth it to me.....then again the celica is a way hotter car.. just my words....thats why you gott have both...a car for speed and a car for the babes just another reason why we need 6 gen gt-4 in the states |
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Oct 2, 2004 - 12:19 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
ok what gen prelude are we talking about? i was talking about the 92-96. not the new ones. the new ones are way faster. and you should brag more about how fast and many cars you own |
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Oct 2, 2004 - 1:00 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
actuatly the 5th and the 4th gen are pretty similar in performance the vtec 92-96 they both virtually have the same engine (all based off the h22a). but as for weight and such and such i dont know the difference. unless your talking about the f22a (POS) your celica is no mach for a 4th gen or 5th gen prelude. i do believe a nicely tuboed st or gt could beat both these car with i/h/e. This post has been edited by recneps: Oct 2, 2004 - 12:10 PM -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Oct 2, 2004 - 1:54 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
well **** i raced another one tonight, just to see if it was fluke, and off the line i took him, he hit second and pulled. his rear bumper was even with my front bumper through third and he wasnt pulling away. by the end of third, we had to slow down. but it was a different prelude both had vtec, and neither of them impressed me. the one i raced tonight was stock
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Oct 2, 2004 - 11:45 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Heh... first off, the 4th gen Ludes have far more potential. They are not slower than the 5th gens, if anything, they're faster and lighter. Second... didn't you lose? You're talking like Ludes are slow or something, and regardless, that's your opinion. I've said this many many times before, and will say again, your few occasions when you can stick it to their rear doesn't mean you'll always do that with every single Prelude. FYI, the lude I was talking about losing to is a STOCK AUTO Lude... and every other lude I've seen, raced, come across, driven, I assure you, will spank any non-swapped n/a Celica any day (except for maybe the F22 powerd Prelude S). As for me bragging... heh... I never claimed to be some sort of baddass and *think* my 16 second cars are fast. I'll assure you, they're faster than your car in any situation, but I'm not gonna be stupid enough to go off and compare to cars that simply have more power. All I ever say is that you shouldn't simply *think* our track proven 16 second cars are fast enough to even keep with 3 cars of a normal Prelude. The typical well driven H22 lude is a 15 second car... low 15's manual, high 15's auto. Those suckers can get into the 14 second range with bolt-ons... As for knowing what you race... how'd you know it was a VTEC lude? Did you open the hood and look, or are you just reading stickers. I highly doubt you can keep within 2 cars of an H22A Lude... then again, you raced for 2 gears... so that's pretty lame in itself. If you plan on carrying out this argument... go back and read my previous posts in this thread and prepare to know your stuff before you do so. I don't feel like repeating sh1t over and over... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Oct 2, 2004 - 7:44 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
i thought your auto was a low 15 stock?????? and i never said anything about them being slow, im just saying i would expect more from a car with that much more power than me. yes i did lose to the preludes but i hung with them better than a 135 hp car should. i know the first prelude i raced was vtec mainly because as stated before, i know the guy. the last one i raced was stock. it didnt have exhaust, rims, stickers, anything except and srv badge in the factory location. im assuming if he was going to go through the trouble of putting on a different badge, he would have put on a type r or a gtr badge like everyone else in my city does. i am in no way saying i dont like them because i do like them, but i just expected more out of them. i know my 16 second car isnt fast either, but it doesnt have the numbers that the prelude does. |
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