body roll Options

[TRD-ST204]

My GT has a lot of body roll, it occurs even when turning slightly. On several occassions the rear has broke loose because of the weight transfer. What are some good parts can I buy to make it go away. Also I have a lot of ground clearance can anyone help me out?

[Gilbert_619]

the best way is to cage it up i think....


or just get new shocks..lower it and struts it up too

[dabbill]

Coilovers will help alot. Droping my car about 3 inches with some coilovers off ebay took a lot of the body roll out.

[Digndoug]

I think some springs or such would help a ton. Also, You could try some sway bars... Thats what there made for, but i would do the springs first.. or do it all at once..

[rjbibeau]

3 inches no way did you lower it that much. i slammed mine like 2.25 and i have like no suspension.

[TTE]

I think in your case your shocks need replacement. I know that I've been there

[dabbill]

I have no suspention left. I went from a 3.5 inch gap over my old wheels to a .5 inch gap over the same wheels.

[playr158]

coilovers with koni adjustables will do very good...
suspension technique sway bar kit will do REALLY VERY Good
strut tower bars in the front and back and you are completly set

[Junior]

sounds like you need some shocks and springs. Your sway bar link bushings may also be shot.

[Mike]

New tires too, with a bigger contact patch

[shadycrew31]

get new springs and shocks. that should bring it to better than stock. then get the suspension tech sway bars off nopi for like 250. but only get the sway bars if you wanna go crazy with handling. if you just want the best pakge for your cash get the kyb struts and springs. i prefer sprint. but ya know.

[Batman722]

Just what everyone said already.

also, the cheap way out would be strut bars and change the rear sway bar bushings and links.

[frosty]

Oh crap, just redo your whole suspension!

[playr158]

^basically what he should do......if your goin to do it you might as well do it right the first time...
priority order is as follows
1) springs
2) shocks
3) sway bars and bushings
4) strut tower bars (front and back)

[Akimbo]

Links for sways bars, bushings, and strut tower bars?

[stcivickiller]

well for starters coilover off of ebay are probebly ur worst choice if u wanna do it right go with some eibach springs or some H&R springs something nice or if ur gonna do coilovers buy nice ones or the real deal ture coilovers u could also go with strut bars front and rear sway bars u really only need a rear sway bar and a 3pt. stress bar in the rear helps caging it would tighten it up but its kinda of an extreme solution some good tires would help keep traction too

[TRD-ST204]

Thanks for all your replies it helps me out a lot. I heard the TRD springs were really "good." What exactly can I expect from it.

[shadycrew31]

sorry for bringing up a dead topic but trd's i hear do an inch all around. there stiff but so are sprints and tein's. in the end its your call. but keep in mind that eibach make's trd's springs so yea. good luck!

[Consynx]

eh-hem, do not buy sustension techniques sway bars, those were the only option up until last week when we got deals w/ C-One
do a search, the C-One sway bars should show up, i believe $200ea.
not sure.

As for a springs, anything works well
TRD drops the same amount as S-Tech
there's 1 set of springs that does a lower front than back
Eibach sportlines are more performance based than pro-kit so using them might lead you into buying new struts/shocks as well to keep the ride smooth.

if you go to the links on the main page, i found out most of my info from the Henry site, granted it isn't 100% up to date, it's still a decent site.

[Kwanza26]

First off... the rear-end of a FWD car can't break out/loose or whatever unless you're yanking on the e-brake. Body roll is due to soft suspension parts... If you're at stock height, worn out shocks can cause increased body roll. I don't reccomend putting money into sway bars unless you're gonna race your car every now and then... as in going to the track and running autoX (not street racing). Lower springs will help... but they're not the problem. The shocks are the problem. Bushings can also be a culprit... but they usually don't completely change a car's handling characteristics when they go bad. Strut bars are mostly to look pretty... cause unless you're gonna race (like mentione above)... they don't help much. That's about it...

[97GTinKC]

If you are having a lot of body roll even when just slightly turning the wheel, you probably have something worn out or broken, I'd check the sway bar end links and bushings 1st, then look at the tires, A GT "NEEDS" a performance V-rated tire or you can get the symptoms you describe (I can tell you that from experience). Struts would be the 3rd thing I'd check. These cars dont normally do this sort of thing, you need to make sure everything is working correctly BEFORE you start modifying things.

[streetdreamz94]

I agree w/ kwan ... i put all new suspension on mine starting with springs and shocks, the most notiable ride difference came then. So if your going to do anything, do them both right away. Doesn't pay to go in there twice when you can do it all at once.

[Supersprynt]

With that said - whats the kick ass strut to get?

[ghostdog]

With that said - whats the kick ass strut to get?
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get a full coilover. tein, jic, tanabe.. or koni/ground control for a couple hundred cheaper

[Supersprynt]

ha i dont have that much cash. I have lowering springs I just want a good strut to eliminate the horrible body roll.

Koni Yellows look pretty good - swaying towards them.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Nov 22, 2004 - 12:59 PM

[ghostdog]

ha i dont have that much cash. I have lowering springs I just want a good strut to eliminate the horrible body roll.

Koni Yellows look pretty good - swaying towards them.
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Koni Yellows are like 600. plus lowering springs at 200 or ground controls for 400. thats a grand, or the price of the base Teins

[Supersprynt]

Meh guess im going OEM

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Nov 22, 2004 - 1:58 PM

[redtcel]

First off... the rear-end of a FWD car can't break out/loose or whatever unless you're yanking on the e-brake.
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thats not true. i broke out bad the other night coming out of a series of turns in a canyon... my buddy was in the car with me and kinda looked at me like WTF you have a front wheel drive car your rear end shouldnt be breaking lose. we got out to see if there was dirt or gravel... nothing..... no water no ice nothing. it was a regularly paved road....

[Consynx]

Are you letting off the gas?
do you have it over 3Krpm?

Maybe just a bit too fast? iunno, but i LOVE my new tires

[TRD-ST204]

No, I don't really drive fast unless I have to. I drive normally like a daily driver and I don't let off the gas. I heel toe most of the time.

[Kwanza26]

First off... the rear-end of a FWD car can't break out/loose or whatever unless you're yanking on the e-brake.
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thats not true. i broke out bad the other night coming out of a series of turns in a canyon... my buddy was in the car with me and kinda looked at me like WTF you have a front wheel drive car your rear end shouldnt be breaking lose. we got out to see if there was dirt or gravel... nothing..... no water no ice nothing. it was a regularly paved road....
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Bullsh!t... I'll bet you're another one of those Initial D dori togue wannabes. If you know anything about racing or fast driving techniques... the rear-end never simply slides out on its own in a FF car. I've been racing both FF and FR cars since I was 15 and FF cars simply don't tail slide on their own no matter how bad you wanna be cool and tailslide drift. There may be a few instances of mild skipping and traction loss... but by the time the rear starts sliding... the front load will be so great... the car's understeering. Think of it this way... in a horse drawn carriage, does the carriage ever go in a different direction from the horse simply because?

[Kwanza26]

No, I don't really drive fast unless I have to. I drive normally like a daily driver and I don't let off the gas. I heel toe most of the time.
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What for? Heel-toe shifting/braking is a race technique where balance can mean the difference between control and no control...

[RedSunCelica]

yup kwanzas right the back end will never come out like that on a FWD car. ill kinda skip but wont completly come out and do a fulblown slide.

take it to a auto x course and see. only way the back will come out like that is if your barrling down a staright line and trail brake into a tight tight corner even then the back will sorta budge but not to that extreme extent.

as for suspension i have eibach springs,uspension tech sways front and rear and rear cusco strut brace and couldnt be happer with the way it handles gonna buy the front to see how it differs with and with out it on.

as for the heel toe thing.... yeah its cool to know how to do it but i rarely do it..... only time i catch myself doing it is if im braking late into a corner but even then ill just go down a gear and left foot brake thru it...

This post has been edited by RedSunCelica: Nov 29, 2004 - 4:01 PM

[Consynx]

heel-toe?
maybe he was reffering to another way of two-footing it
i guess since FF cars are dif than the rest, some people do something like braking in the turn WHILE accelerating at the same time.

not quite sure how it works, but i think that's how it goes

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I'm not sure I completely agree with a FF not sliding the back. I've raced dirt track, and I agree that it’s not a common thing for a FF to slide the back end. But, my old car would do it every now and then if I induced body role. Of course that car had a 67- 33% weight distribution front to back. It was a 92 Geo Storm Gsi, with a gutted interior and a fair amount of work done to the engine. I've never had either of my Celica’s ever do this though, and I don't think it's possible for them too. I don’t think this guy is telling the truth, but I think some FF cars will slide if you put effort into it.

[Kwanza26]

I'm not sure I completely agree with a FF not sliding the back.  I've raced dirt track, and I agree that it’s not a common thing for a FF to slide the back end.  But, my old car would do it every now and then if I induced body role.  Of course that car had a 67- 33% weight distribution front to back.  It was a 92 Geo Storm Gsi, with a gutted interior and a fair amount of work done to the engine.  I've never had either of my Celica’s ever do this though, and I don't think it's possible for them too.  I don’t think this guy is telling the truth, but I think some FF cars will slide if you put effort into it.
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Dirt and pavement are completely different worlds. Key word is "effort". I can make my FF car slide in the back... it's as easy as pulling the e-brake. As far as tail sliding during the apex of a corner during somewhat normal fast driving, it simply doesn't happen as exaggeratedly as some people think. You'd have to either be slamming on the brake where as the front is stopping completely and the rear loses all traction and slides out (like what RedSunCelica describes), or you directly apply pressure via e-brake. Even with staggered wheel set-ups, which is very common in FF racing, high grip tires up front and low grip in the rear to minimize understeer, a FF car doesn't exhibit tail sliding without direct input. The front wheels are constantly pulling the rear... so there's no way the rear can somehow pull itself elsewhere away fron the front without direct input from the driver. It's simple physics... I find it almost laughable how often people try to argue against this...

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I'm not sure I completely agree with a FF not sliding the back.  I've raced dirt track, and I agree that it’s not a common thing for a FF to slide the back end.  But, my old car would do it every now and then if I induced body role.  Of course that car had a 67- 33% weight distribution front to back.  It was a 92 Geo Storm Gsi, with a gutted interior and a fair amount of work done to the engine.  I've never had either of my Celica’s ever do this though, and I don't think it's possible for them too.  I don’t think this guy is telling the truth, but I think some FF cars will slide if you put effort into it.
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Dirt and pavement are completely different worlds. Key word is "effort". I can make my FF car slide in the back... it's as easy as pulling the e-brake. As far as tail sliding during the apex of a corner during somewhat normal fast driving, it simply doesn't happen as exaggeratedly as some people think. You'd have to either be slamming on the brake where as the front is stopping completely and the rear loses all traction and slides out (like what RedSunCelica describes), or you directly apply pressure via e-brake. Even with staggered wheel set-ups, which is very common in FF racing, high grip tires up front and low grip in the rear to minimize understeer, a FF car doesn't exhibit tail sliding without direct input. The front wheels are constantly pulling the rear... so there's no way the rear can somehow pull itself elsewhere away fron the front without direct input from the driver. It's simple physics... I find it almost laughable how often people try to argue against this...
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I was saying that about my old car, and no it was not on the dirt only. If your arguing that you can't step on the gas and have a FF car's rear wheels spin it around, I don't think your get much feedback because this is obviously true. But the key here is the effort, and it is possible for a front drive cars rear to slide without the e-brake. My car didn't have much for rear brakes but it did have upgraded front brakes. This is probably why it would break loose in the back sometimes. And I was saying all of this just as friendly conversation. It gets irritating when people start laughing at one another. That isn't what these forums are about.

[Kwanza26]

I was saying that about my old car, and no it was not on the dirt only.  If your arguing that you can't step on the gas and have a FF car's rear wheels spin it around, I don't think your get much feedback because this is obviously true.  But the key here is the effort, and it is possible for a front drive cars rear to slide without the e-brake.  My car didn't have much for rear brakes but it did have upgraded front brakes.  This is probably why it would break loose in the back sometimes.  And I was saying all of this just as friendly conversation.  It gets irritating when people start laughing at one another.  That isn't what these forums are about.
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I laugh because of posts like this. You're trying to make an argument repeating what I said earlier. That example is not even what we're reffering to here. Think of it as "drift style" tail sliding. Even the braking example... it happens only when you're slowing down from very high speed to very low speed in a relatively straight line. Also, the front rear bias has to be very very strong to the front... to the point where the rear can't lock up.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Nov 30, 2004 - 10:10 AM

[TRD-ST204]

It could also be that I don't have ABS and the roll is very strong. I never said it slides i said it looses traction.

[TRD-ST204]

Hey Kwanza I don't think you know what you are talking about; I heel toe because I want the passengers in my car to have a more comfortable ride. You say you race, where do you race?

[Kwanza26]

Hey Kwanza I don't think you know what you are talking about;   I heel toe because I want the passengers in my car to have a more comfortable ride. You say you race, where do you race?
[right][snapback]214679[/snapback][/right]

Uhhuh...

I raced at Thunder Hill race park in Willows CA...

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Nov 30, 2004 - 6:26 PM

[TRD-ST204]

You probably lose all the time don't you!

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Hey Kwanza26, it seems to me that you and me are pretty close to being on the same page now. It looks like you've changed your argument from "front wheel drive cars rear end could never slip out under any conditions," to "they only slip out during corning and with hard front breaking and little to no rear, or with the assistance of the e-brake, but not when you step on the gas." I don't know why you have to keep putting comments on here about laughing at other people and how dumb someone is. You may be smart, heck you may be smarter than me, but that still doesn't give you the right to laugh at anyone. And as far as body role is concerned, front dodge neon strut tower bar on e-bay $46.58 shipping included, and GT-4 rear strut tower brace from dealer $80.13. That’s a good budget fix. If that doesn’t fix it, go for bigger sway bars front and rear. If that doesn’t help, you have to put in a role cadge.

[Kwanza26]

Hey Kwanza26, it seems to me that you and me are pretty close to being on the same page now.  It looks like you've changed your argument from "front wheel drive cars rear end could never slip out under any conditions," to "they only slip out during corning and with hard front breaking and little to no rear, or with the assistance of the e-brake, but not when you step on the gas."  I don't know why you have to keep putting comments on here about laughing at other people and how dumb someone is.  You may be smart, heck you may be smarter than me, but that still doesn't give you the right to laugh at anyone.  And as far as body role is concerned, front dodge neon strut tower bar on e-bay $46.58 shipping included, and GT-4 rear strut tower brace from dealer $80.13.  That’s a good budget fix.  If that doesn’t fix it, go for bigger sway bars front and rear.  If that doesn’t help, you have to put in a role cadge.
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You should go back and re-read my posts... I've only been repeating myself... I NEVER said rear-ends don't slide out... I said they don't slide out on their own. I've even repeated over and over "without direct input" and obviously you only heard what you wanted hear. I laugh at people who deserve it. If you can't handle it... you're a much smaller person than you know. This is the internet you know...

You probably lose all the time don't you!

Go lose traction and heel-toe into a tree or something... pretty petty you're gettin at there...

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Kwanza26, your the worst thing on this site. You say that I need to learn to handle it because this is the Internet. I thought this site maintained a level of respect between members, and besides you I've seen that it has. I treated you with respect and tried to deal nicely with you, obviously you don't have the majority or the confidence to treat others the same. I say confidence because, not that it matters on here anyway, but I'm a 6'1" tall guy that weighs around 250lbs. I bench press around 250, curl 135, and squat and even 405lbs. I have a girlfriend that has been with me for over 3 years now, and I have a 3.0 grade average in college. I don't feel the need to get on web sites and attempt to bully and harass people to make myself feel better. You’ve got a brain and you obviously know a thing or two about cars. But you need to get a life.

[Digndoug]

ahh Come on kids.. everyone has there own way of driving and racing..

[Kwanza26]

Kwanza26, your the worst thing on this site.  You say that I need to learn to handle it because this is the Internet.  I thought this site maintained a level of respect between members, and besides you I've seen that it has.  I treated you with respect and tried to deal nicely with you, obviously you don't have the majority or the confidence to treat others the same.  I say confidence because, not that it matters on here anyway, but I'm a 6'1" tall guy that weighs around 250lbs.  I bench press around 250, curl 135, and squat and even 405lbs.  I have a girlfriend that has been with me for over 3 years now, and I have a 3.0 grade average in college.  I don't feel the need to get on web sites and attempt to bully and harass people to make myself feel better.  You’ve got a brain and you obviously know a thing or two about cars.  But you need to get a life.
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Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Some people need what I give them. Maybe sensitive people such as yourself see it as disrespect... but if anything... they ask for it. If you ask me... I'm patient, I explain over and over, but people just read what they want to read. People want confirmation of their beliefs. If they don't get what they want... they get aggitated. I'm used to it... I deal with people like that on a daily basis. Things set in stone cannot be erased. People have their ideas set in stone, and even with overwhelming proof... some people can't handle it. That's fine... I don't mind giving them a kick or two in the process... and I don't ever mean it as anything personal... but take it as you will.

[FallenHero]

quiet you. he has more boxes, thus he is right.

Kwanza26, your the worst thing on this site.  You say that I need to learn to handle it because this is the Internet.  I thought this site maintained a level of respect between members, and besides you I've seen that it has.  I treated you with respect and tried to deal nicely with you, obviously you don't have the majority or the confidence to treat others the same.  I say confidence because, not that it matters on here anyway, but I'm a 6'1" tall guy that weighs around 250lbs.  I bench press around 250, curl 135, and squat and even 405lbs.  I have a girlfriend that has been with me for over 3 years now, and I have a 3.0 grade average in college.  I don't feel the need to get on web sites and attempt to bully and harass people to make myself feel better.  You’ve got a brain and you obviously know a thing or two about cars.  But you need to get a life.
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[trdevelopment]

Hey Kwanza26, it seems to me that you and me are pretty close to being on the same page now.  It looks like you've changed your argument from "front wheel drive cars rear end could never slip out under any conditions," to "they only slip out during corning and with hard front breaking and little to no rear, or with the assistance of the e-brake, but not when you step on the gas."  I don't know why you have to keep putting comments on here about laughing at other people and how dumb someone is.  You may be smart, heck you may be smarter than me, but that still doesn't give you the right to laugh at anyone.  And as far as body role is concerned, front dodge neon strut tower bar on e-bay $46.58 shipping included, and GT-4 rear strut tower brace from dealer $80.13.  That’s a good budget fix.  If that doesn’t fix it, go for bigger sway bars front and rear.  If that doesn’t help, you have to put in a role cadge.
[right][snapback]215012[/snapback][/right]

You should go back and re-read my posts... I've only been repeating myself... I NEVER said rear-ends don't slide out... I said they don't slide out on their own. I've even repeated over and over "without direct input" and obviously you only heard what you wanted hear. I laugh at people who deserve it. If you can't handle it... you're a much smaller person than you know. This is the internet you know...

You probably lose all the time don't you!

Go lose traction and heel-toe into a tree or something... pretty petty you're gettin at there...
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lmao kwanza's hella funny man i always love to read his posts...

[Supersprynt]

I think u guys need to back the truck up. Kwanza knows his sh!t and has the experience to back it up idk but I'll take his word over most anyones.

[ghostdog]

no more of this petty bickering .. locked