got the 5SFTE put on a DYNO, heres the results. actual number finally Options

[x_itchy_b_x]

i figure 220 ish chp and 227ctq. how about you?
13psi. 93 octane gas no additives.


im happy with it for now. once i get cams ill be good.

ps woot. 4 little boxes now

This post has been edited by x_itchy_b_x: Nov 6, 2004 - 3:47 PM

[Digndoug]

DAMN, thats pretty freaking nice.. now you just need to take her to the track..

[funnyboy117]

Good job man, you're ahead of my stock ST by like 100 whp ...

[importceli]

damn dude mad props, how much did your grand total run you, jw cuz ill probibly end up goin that route.

[x_itchy_b_x]

[importceli]

so 3grand with internals and install? could i get away with 2grand for turbo and install with my low milage 56k mile engine? and also can the convertable handle the turbo? someone was talkin about the different chasis codes? whats that gotta do with it?

[shid]

Nice Itchy; Nice Can't wait to put down that much power.

[lagos]

wow, nice numbers. thats about what the swap puts down (or so i hear)

[x_itchy_b_x]

[orvillescelica]

wow!! nice job! much more than i expected!

with beefed up internals you can definatly put down much more

[Consynx]

actually it should be about the same until some heavy modifications.
although he is pushing 190ish at the wheels now, the higher compression is helping, so once he goes down to 8.5, he'll have to boost higher just to get 190 again

maybe though, maybe he'll be able to boost past that mark

[Hanyo]

run the quarter mile..

all this horsepower numbers doesnt make any sense to me.. i need a quarter mile time to use as a reference.

[celicaspeed]

Thats awsome!You want to go fast drop weight and see the differance until you do the enternals!

[x_itchy_b_x]

[Fox-N-It2]

Lemme guess stock 5s management with bigger injectors. Your A/F looks terrible. Standalone or chip should be your next mod. You could easily see 200+ at the wheels on the same amoutn of boost.

[x_itchy_b_x]

[celicarocker]

m00oo00ttT!!! badass john!!!

[NEVERSTOP]

[Dr_Tweak]

[x_itchy_b_x]

[turboinduction]

itchy b is my hero - great job

5S pride m00t m00t

-Ti

[gtfc115]

[Digndoug]

It dosnt look like he built it up at all.. he just slaped on a turbo an the components along with it. But also the 3s is getting that power only at what 8pse compared to 13.. when you boost up the 3s its going to be more, also keep in mind the 3s has better internals so its a hella lot safer to run boosted.. where his might crap out 10 k down the road.

[lagos]

here is the thing...the 5sfe is a higher compression 2.2l motor. in theory it should be faster at the same boost levels then the 3sgte swap.

but the bad thing about the 5sfTe is that on one reallly knows how long the motor will last. so you make this big investment that will proably fail sooner or later. on a 3sgte with the stock ct26 turbo, the mr2 guys have been running 15psi, all day, everyday...for years. theere are 3sgtes with close to 200,000mile on them, still boosting.

then there are turbo upgrades and fuel upgrades that will gain you even more power. the mr2 guy think the hp limit of the 3sgte is around 700hp! there is on 6th gen ive seen that puts down 400hp. so, as you can see the 3sgte is a better option.

for itchyb, i recomend turning down the boost to a nice 7-8 psi. thats about the most stress you would want to put on a stock motor.

[x_itchy_b_x]

my 5sfte isnt built at all. ur right. once it is spending the difference between the cost of swapping a turboing on interrnals ill have sumthing alittle stronger than a 3sgte. stroked... and its holding up fine. i chekc everyhting day in a day out. pull the plugs look down to the cylinders check for marks.

[Consynx]

he's passing the time till he can swap, with what he calls the poor mans boost

[drdos]

pretty decent number's.

[NEVERSTOP]

[erics1one]

Nice numbers indeed.

The 13psi on a stock setup does make me cringe...

...but nice

[lagos]

NEVERSTOP, what happened to your swap, why dont you have it anymore?

i could never see anyone on here with a 3sgte, install it, take it out and decide a 5sfTe was a better way to go.

any motor can be great if you throw enough money at it.

everyone has their setups and what route they decided to go with their cars. the way i see it is that you can spend all this money into your 5sfe and make it amazing, but the whole process will be this huge experiment of will it live or will it die, as long as the owner accepts that and isint afraid of pulling out a 5s and putting in a new one, then its all good.

with the 3sgte, you are getting a motor that was built for boost. everythihng from the pistons to the ecu is factory made to take boost day in and day out. seeing as how you can buy a clip for 1,500-2,500, thats a good deal right there.

[FallenHero]

wow, that's really great man. I am actually surprised though. the 7a with 8lbs puts down about 170whp, or that was my impression... Granted, it can't touch that torque though.

[NEVERSTOP]

[Doge]

[Consynx]

9.5:1 i thought it was 10.5:1 once again, i guess you can't go off of information from other websites.

anyways, an engine isn't an engine if it isn't reliable.

and what is this i hear about the cams then
they're supposedly at 22.3 degrees, and i use to be under the impression that that was their angle from the valves perp.
if it's their lift, then once again, the SAME site has me believing what is wrong.

what ever happened to Webcams? their price was going up last i saw

This post has been edited by Consynx: Nov 7, 2004 - 7:27 PM

[celicaspeed]

If you get a piggy back it will do alot more than what you can do right now.Your ecu wont let your car do what u want it to because of maps and other stuff.If you really want to go hard core do what I did and get a AEM wide band o2 and tune it in to the T.

This post has been edited by celicaspeed: Nov 7, 2004 - 8:46 PM

[Kwanza26]

Good stuff. Excellent numbers... what I'd expect from a well tuned 5SFTE at 13 psi. As for those who are arguing... you've yet to express any real indication that you really know what you're arguing about (you might know a bit... but you've yet to hit the nail on the head)... so I'm not gonna say nothing to you guys. All I'll say is... compression is pretty mild so that's not a huge threat so long as you don't take shortcuts. The reason the 5S can make that sort of power boosted is because of the OVERALL design. Apply those big torque numbers from forced induction to the HP equation and you'll get big HP numbers also. There's more... so until you ask... I'll let the other guys try to figure it out... ;]

[turboinduction]

I just read Itchy's last post on the first page

Just cause I think I know what I'm talking about - and I'm sure Kwanza will burn the hell out of me if I dont ...

I believe you have to have a twin entry manifold to accept the twin entry turbo. And vice versa. If you have a single entry supra turbo now and you get a mr2 twin - then I believe you have to do something about that manifold. Flame away if I'm wrong.

-Ti

God I suck at spelling

This post has been edited by turboinduction: Nov 7, 2004 - 9:25 PM

[x_itchy_b_x]

u guys i have plans for the 5sfte. i want to push it to its limits. im doing supra valves 1mm oversized. with shimless s2000 retainers, an supra valve springs. web cams (once i find extra 5sfe cams to send out) . piston and rods. larger injectors a better igniti0n system and a nitrous 35 spool shot. if i can find a cheap T3 id get one. its a work in progres for me and always has. eventually do stand alone ecu. its all what i can save from working at a grocery store and doing the labor myself. im only 18
i know ibwilsons 5sfte is gunna be amazing i can wait to see that complete.

ok heres the deal about manifolds. yes and no. i had a twin entry going into my single turbo BUT before i put it on i ground out the devider and making a nice swirl for the swirl to travel. but to use that new twin entry turob im getting ill either find a new manifold. or weld in a devider were i took it out.

This post has been edited by x_itchy_b_x: Nov 7, 2004 - 9:36 PM

[Kwanza26]

[spunky393]

This is muscle car knowledge coming out, try to find cams that have sat in a junkyard and have "rust" all over it. They'll be much much harder than a normally clean cam. my .02 cents

[lagos]

my theory is this....if slaping on a turbo, retarding timing and changing the fuel tuning was all that was needed to make a realiable turbo motor, then toyota would have put the 5sfTe into the alltrac, running stock alltrac boost of 7-11psi.

itcyb, dont take this as a diss against your project. i have a lot of respect for the tuning you have done on your car. keep up the good work!

[NEVERSTOP]

[lagos]

[x_itchy_b_x]

but isnt the 3sge is the same as a 3sgte right?? why didnt toyota jsut slap n a turbo to that? and retard the timing wiht larger fuel... thats all u'd have to do.. but they didnt because not every car they put out is gunna be a 200 hp fast car. the 5sfe goal was torque with low emissions and gas milage. also kwanza what are we missing man dont hold out.

[nik]

its good to see that the guys putting on turbos and not just swaping are getting pretty good numbers. its been said before put i also think anything above 250 whp on a fwd is a waste but thats me.

[Kwanza26]

[Consynx]

lol, Neverstop...i liked the comment

this is a lil bit of an uglier post.

Kwanza i think you did leave out the idea that even though pound for pound the 5S will always outpower, that to get to the next level it might cost more for the 5S.

such as once you want to pass 15psi, the 5S needs more than the 3S
correct me if i am wrong though...

[nik]

i wish they just would have imported the GT4

[spunky393]

nice add nik

Also, you're saying life and death with the 5s-fte, well, how about a 5s-fze, supercharged. What happens there. For starters, which one is worse on the engine? And spill the rest of the info kwanza on the supercharger route

[Kwanza26]

[lagos]

[Kwanza26]

[lagos]

um...15psi is the limit of the stock ct26 turbo, not the motor.

lookup JekylandHyde on mr2oc.com...he is running 23psi on an unopened motor with 200,000 miles on it.

my final point: dont knock the 3sgte, its a great motor and well worth the upgrade.

on that note, i give up. people can argue this back and forth forever.

[Kwanza26]

[lagos]

http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/HydeMods.htm


Hydes 351hp dyno run
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/images/hyde_351_dyno.mpg


tons of race videos
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/HydePhotos.htm

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 8, 2004 - 11:01 PM

[Consynx]

since this is running out
what is the max output of the 3S on stock internals...
I was trying to compare the SR to the 3S, and although the 3S is supposed to rein supreme, now there's numberous people saying the SR can handle well over 500 on stock internals...

im wondering where this is coming from

[NEVERSTOP]

[lagos]

hmm... i never said my car was one of a kind or anything like that, but as far as celicas go, its a very rare car. the 3sgte swap is still a new thing and there are only a few of them out there. so, yes, my car is great!

since you decided to go on a presonal attack... i always hear you brag about what you had, but never see u have anything to prove it. "i had awd" "i had a 3sgte" etc.. sorry, but i dont really believe any of it.


back on topic....

[NEVERSTOP]

[Kwanza26]

You guys are arguing based on opinion...

Lagos... Hyde has a lot of mods done... His is the highest boost levels I've heard of with the stock block... so I am impressed... but the money he's put in along with his means of doing things (very fuel safe) makes your argument weak. It's not within comparison to a 5SFTE. Apples and Oranges... I have a couple of buddies in town that build MR2 turbos for a living, and from my experience... I don't think boosting a stock block 3SGTE like that is a very good idea... I've seen 3SGTE's fry pistons at pretty modest boost levels... but I'm open to the idea. I just would like for you not to take some dude's word for it so easily. Let me put it this way... would you max out the boost on your car and drive it daily?

Again lagos... I'm not arguing whether or not a 5SFE is as strong as a 3SGTE... that's a no brainer. I'm just saying... most people boost their cars to modest levels (10psi max?) and that no way justifies the idea that "they wasted their time" and "they should have done a swap"... Like I mentioned before... how many Celica people who have swapped 3SGTEs have built up their 3SGTEs? Not many if any... people who have problems with custom turbos almost always take shortcuts... but that doesn't mean it'll happen so long as you're safe about it.

[Supersprynt]

Just to interrupt on your buddy Josh, Kwanza. He's the nicest business man I've ever dealt with. He (well Chico) shipped me the wrong tranny by mistake 2 months ago and I only got to messing with it recently and noticed woops, no LSD, so I contacted him and he had absolutely no problem in swapping it ASAP with no charge to me. Just thought I'd share that in case anyone is looking to deal with them since I noticed your kinda promoting him too lol.

Heres a page of Chris Dittrick's site on a history of 3S-GTE's blowing up:
How To Blow Up Your 3SGTE

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Nov 9, 2004 - 8:34 AM

[spunky393]

I can't remember who said that they use to soley believe in the 3sgte (becaues i'm on the forth page), haha, but kwanza may remember my post, i've always not blieved in the 3s-gte. I plan on the 5s-fze, and somewhere in the plan, always waving goodbye to swapped 3's. I've always believe in my 5s

[Supersprynt]

Uh...3SGTE isnt a belief or idea you can believe in. The 3sgte is just plainly capable of more power at safer conditions. The 5sfe has plenty of power capability but IDK but it cannot take the abuse I think alot of ppl are going to put it through. The 5sfe was not meant for boost so boosting it requires TLC. The 3s can sustain a little bit of a beating. IMO some people dont accept the responsibility of having a turbo engine and thus dont kno how to properly treat one.

[lagos]

[Supersprynt]

i dont think any sort of modification will have the engine or swap as reliable as stock, thats just the price you pay for doing this kinda stuff.

[Nemises]

thought some of youmight like this if you havent seen it already.

http://www.trdnw.com/cat_turbo_reviews_1.html

[Nemises]

gotta read this is for the 5sfe

Initial dyno tests showed the 7psi kit on the Camry produced 162.4 hp at the wheels, a gain over stock of about 60 hp. The first quarter mile run was 14.93 sec @ 93.36 mph. Later upgrades produced quarter mile times in the 14.25 range @ 99.98 mph.
The upgraded turbo system now in the Camry produced 253.7 hp at the wheels and we have yet to run a quarter mile with the prototype since the additional injector was added and the head was flowed.

Figuring a 20% loss at the wheels the 7psi kit should produce about 203hp at the crank and the prototype Camry is probably producing slightly in excess of 300 crank hp.

http://www.trdnw.com/cat_turbo_performance.html

[FallenHero]

I wonder if it has an air conditioner, or interior for that matter...

[x_itchy_b_x]

[jayi12-15psi]

[SlowCelica94]

I've lost a lot of respect for you NEVERSTOP. You need to control the way you conduct yourself. It may not matter what some people on some forum might think, but I hope you don't blow up like this in real life. You didn't do a very good job of making a point you, you just made an ass outta urself.

[Yota]

I don't understand how NEVERSTOP made an ass out of himself. How else would he handle being accused of not doing the things he has done to his car? Being only 15 minutes away from him, and the owner of his 3SGTE, I can understand how he would be upset. He has every reason to defend his name and his work done to his 94 project.

He's got pictures to back up his ownership of the 3SGTE before I bought it. Hell, if you look past his 99 in his signature of his replies, thats a guy named Mike that you see working on the 94.

[nik]

everyone is slingen mud now.

[x_itchy_b_x]

im sorry..... i jsut posted up some numbers yes the 3sgte is better. duhhhhh. but im poor.

[NEVERSTOP]

[SlowCelica94]

It's not that you replied, thats fine, it's the way you did.

[DamDirtyApes]

i wanan swap in a supra engine... that will pwn both those engines .

neither engine is better. its all about what you want to gain, and ur funding.

5sfte is way better than 3sgte in certain aspects. and in other aspects the 3sgte is way better. pls stop this bickering.

dont make me swap a supra engine in. ill have to whoop all u guys.(in a race)




o yeah and neverstop... ur car kicks ass

[spunky393]

hold on apes, what kinda race

[lagos]

NEVERSTOP, everyone has a different way of looking at things. you may read something i say, and take it one way, and someone else will read it and take it another way. its just the way the internet is.

my personal OPINION (not fact, just the way i take the things u type) of you has alway been of a guy who dosnt tell the truth about his past car projects, but you never see me try to disrespect you about it or try to pick a fight. i agree with SlowCelica94 that your comments were out of line. this is after all a msg board, everyone can state their opinion (about the topic posted) and debate it till the cows come home. so, dont give me crap for trying to debate my side of this topic.


Yota, if you scroll up and read all the posts again, youll see that i only said something about his past projects as a reply to the attacks he made at me in the previous thread. i wasnt the one who started the presonal attacks.

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 9, 2004 - 11:44 PM

[celicaspeed]

I think the 5sfe is a great start but if your like me and craving the real power you got the wrong engine to come out and play!Like you guys are saying changing the internals the tuning and dyno the car and see were you can improve the curvs, the truth of it is you are using a mk3 supra turbo thats good at the end of the gears (builds boost late)the 3sgte ct26 kicks in very early in the power band and rpms.So you have now figured what you did wrong just by changing the turbo!Now it spools up quicker and the tourque down low will break your enternals if you dont build the motor from the inside out.Now my question is why go with a turbo on your 5sfe motor if you dont want to be able to run some serious boost ?Kwanza 10 psi is equivalent to 100 hp in theory!A 3sgte is that already on motor, more than a stock 5sfe!If I want to add 100hp i crank up my boost up 10 psi and its still more power and its safer.Now you guy talk about compression the 5sfe is a higher than the 3sgte so you get a new intake manifold with longer runners and there you have raised the compression and the motor is still faster and more safe.I think its cool that someone is doing a NA and turboing it but as far as I concerned I want huge power from my car.And I go all out or why do we even bother spending money on our cars.GO BIG OR GO HOME!!

This post has been edited by celicaspeed: Nov 10, 2004 - 12:56 AM

[NEVERSTOP]

[SlowCelica94]

So the arugment is sorta like this. 3s is better. But for the money you spend swapping in a 3s, you could build a better 5s. Ok. Prove it. No, don't actually do it, i wanna know now. Price it out. You prove to me there's even strong enough aftermarket support for the 5S to do it.

NEVERSTOP, do you have any pics of ur awd conversion? maybe a write up? Or could you just tell us in a quick nutshell how you did it. I'm not asking for some DIY guide, just enough to sway some opinions as to if you really did it.

[SlowCelica94]

Also, as far as what Lagos has brough to this site, he's brought more then you list. Even if he can just deliver intelligent answers to technical questions, it's pretty helpful. When it comes to anything mechnical on this site, I only take Lagos's, Kwanza's and superspirt's words seriously. Sometimes your's but you just give me a shady vibe

[celicarocker]

meh.... johns addicted to speed anyway... i give it a year and a half and he has a 3S in his car anyway, cuz he maxed out the gains out of his 5S....

[ummmx2]

well from what i hear..you can get the basic basic for the turbo kit for about 800..then add in the bov..turbo timer..boost controller..fuel management..intercooler etc. itll run about 2000 theres the basic 5sfte right there..should run safely at about 8-10 psi..get internals about 3gs..and then some goodies and ur still under the swap cost.

[NEVERSTOP]

[lagos]

185 clip - 2000-2500 - yep thats correct
MRT2 Tranny - 800-1000 - i, and many others are using the stock GT tranny
motor mounts - Appox 200 - u dont need them if u have a GT
Halfshafts camary/mr2 - 200-300 - dont need unless using mr2 tranny
FMIC - 200-400 = yep thats about what the go for
Piping w/couplers - 200-300- correct
BOV - 50-150 - dont really need it, but its a fun toy
Misc - 500 - tools engine lift etc...


$2950-3850 - this is t he ballpark figure i spent on my swap

sell awd tranny from clip -200
sell 5sfe..depending on condition -300-900
sell alltrac hood... 300-450
sell misc alltrac parts 100-300

after selling all that stuff off the price starts to come down.

the Baic 5sfte kit is not a good idea imho.

5sfte mild build up... is the better way to go if you are doing a 5sfte. its very important to control timing with the btm. this is my theory as to why itchyb still has a running engine.

what ever choice people decide, you have to consider the goal: A Turbo 6th gen. a swap will give u that, and a 5sfTe will too. choose not based on cost, but on what you think will give you the best, most realiable setup. if you feel a 5sfTe will do that....great, but do it right and dont expect a 750$ invstment to be realiable. if you go for the swap, spend the extra bucks to fully tune up your engine, and all that stuff.

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 10, 2004 - 8:14 PM

[x_itchy_b_x]

come on though if we didnt base things on price we'd all live in huge houses and drive bmw's... money owns me.

[NEVERSTOP]

[t-spoon]

Just FYI, the 3sgte can in fact handle more than 1bar reliably (as reliably as anything is with a turboed car anyway). I run 15 daily, two other guys in town run 17 daily, it's not that uncommon. The limitation is in fact the turbo itself, CT26 seals just don't like to go higher boost, the turbo is not efficient at those levels, pushing a lot of hot air for less good. When you have an a different turbo that's more efficient and can safely run the boost like Hyde, that's not as much of an issue. For the cracking pistons, with the stock turbo it's hard to exhaust the stock fuel system, at 17 psi it's probably got the injectors working at a high duty cycle, but unless they fail, lean isn't likely. There are a couple of easy precautions, namely sticking an egt probe in exhaust manifold runner 3 which, as we all well know, is the cylinder that will go lean first due to the 3s intake manifold design. You have that backup and it's easy enough to back off as soon as EGTs get a bit higher than they should.

To put it simply, the 3s is a pre-engineered Turbo setup. No guessing if you leave it basically stock. The 5s is EXTREMELY well engineered in its own right, but not as a turbo motor. That doesn't mean it can't be turbo'ed well, it just means you have a lot of things to take care of that you don't with the 3s. There's no better or more cost effective way IMO, they both are expensive to do RIGHT and they both can yield extremely good results. I've owned 2 MR2s (a 93 with 190k miles, a 91 with 173k miles which I have still) and an Alltrac (90 with 123k miles) as well as a 94 Celi GT which has had internals built in preparation to a 5sfte project I haven't got around to completing yet. I can tell you I sunk a lot of money into every single car. Each car had its own quirks, and building up the 5sfe wasn't as cheap as it should of been, quite simply because things can happen that you can't predict, as happened with me. By the same token, another guy who is trying to swap got a bad motor to start with and is having problems. Whichever way you choose, choose with knowlege, not with what's going to be "cheaper" or "better", choose what's going to be what you wanted out of the car, each setup has strengths and weaknesses. I think it's pretty poor form that some of you have yet again devolved the discussion into a which is better argument. It's pointless and counterproductive, try laying the information out objectively without tossing in opinions to try to steer people one way or another. If someone wants to 5sfte, give them the information or just stay out of it. If they want to swap, again, info or hush. IMO that's the only reasonable way to approach it.

BTW, those dyno numbers look great, I do recommend an EGT probe in runner 3 and a good gauge to keep an eye on things

[OOBE]

Dude, back home (Puero Rico), there's more people running fast on non-turbo deuces than turbo ones. They either boost the hell out of them until the engine gives up (15 PSI and they last a while), or they stuff it with forged internals. I'm not kidding here, I've seen more 400+ WHP non-turbo deuces than turbo ones. Down there, the 5S-FE is the prefered platform for going fast. Weird, huh?

[celicarocker]

[Supersprynt]

[ST204no2]

So the arugment is sorta like this. 3s is better. But for the money you spend swapping in a 3s, you could build a better 5s. Ok. Prove it. No, don't actually do it, i wanna know now. Price it out. You prove to me there's even strong enough aftermarket support for the 5S to do it.
[right][snapback]205672[/snapback][/right]

I Completed a buildup of a 5sfe Motor tuned for No2, this April Forged Oversized lowcompression pistons, forged rods, ballenced crank, reman head, and early series head gskt. So far has been Very reliable, daily driven car. two things became apparent
one, because of the angle of the engine in the mounts the front side of the block tends to wear faster ovaling the bore[due to less oil from the pump ]. hence the oversize pistons. two, with the narrow with of the head the twin cams are a real pain to work with[as well as limiting airflow](don't flame me over this its just an observation). I've been working on a prototype Motor useing the 5sfe block and reworking a 89' 3sge head
has anyone tried this? In theory the Higher flowing head If tuned properly will produce more horse power over all {especially if turboed} Combined with the higher torque of the 2.2l block. I heard of versions of this mainly using the 3sgte and stroking it or combining th two. btw the Source for 5sfe parts is Raceeng.com

[CheesyLobster]

Get a 3sgte and bore it. There you got a engine thats ment for turbo with the displacement of a 5sfe.

[x_itchy_b_x]

the idea is to do sumthing new and creative though.

[chucho]

Good job, hope it keeps going strong for ya I wanted to do this too but decided i need to buy a 2nd car if I was going to turbo the celi

[Doge]

Get a 3sgte and bore it. There you got a engine thats ment for turbo with the displacement of a 5sfe.

Adding a 5s block to the 3s head is a better idea for stroking. The 5s block is stronger.. and the crank is more beefy.

[ST204no2]

Get a 3sgte and bore it. There you got a engine thats ment for turbo with the displacement of a 5sfe.

Adding a 5s block to the 3s head is a better idea for stroking. The 5s block is stronger.. and the crank is more beefy.
[right][snapback]206731[/snapback][/right]

I don't think tha block is any stronger... But the advantages are you can continue to use the crank sensor for the later obd2 ecu with no modification. bore and build the 5sfe block and get the better flowing head. If you use the correct pistons[available online] Turboing is not a problem.

[Punch]

thats a good idea

This post has been edited by Punch: Dec 9, 2004 - 12:25 AM