Sub issues Options

[powerkor]

I installed my 18" kicker impulse with matching amp (kick impulse amp)... I installed it correctly and it worked fine for a month... but just the other day, I was listening to it, it sounded fine... I turned off the car... and later that day, when I turned my car back on, the sub wouldn't work. No sound comes out of it unless I turn the volume WAY up and turn the sub volume on max. What happens then is it feels like there's not enough power and it sounds like ****... I've been reading and it might be a voice coil... but i dont think i blew the speaker entirely.

I checked the fuses, both of the metal resistors seem to be intact and all the connections seem to be solid.

I'm puzzled.

[Scarrell]

sub is fried, you can hook another sub up to it to find this out.

[powerkor]

how can i prevent this from happening again if i buy another one?
i dont have a capacitor, should i get one?

[1900WattCelica]

Why dont you hook up another larger speaker or subwoofer to it and turn the gain way down or the volume just to be sure it is the speaker and not a problem with the amplifier. From what you described i dont get how the speaker could fry like that.

EDIT: Capacitors help with your cars electrical charging system. They can help certain issues such as light dimming on bass hits, but will not have any impact on how the amplifier works or the subwoofers life cycle

This post has been edited by 1900WattCelica: Nov 10, 2004 - 12:21 PM

[Scarrell]

you can prevent it by setting your gains on your amp correctly. also having a box for the subs exact specs is something you will need too. a capacitor is a 50/50 thing, they help some, but not enough for everyone to use them. that is up to you. no matter what your lights will dim. you might want to look into a high ouput altenator and Optima batteries (even with this your lights will dim, but not nearly as bad). there is no solution to this. remember to check ALL your wiring and ground points. and make sure you have the proper fuse size in.

[Gilbert_619]

trash...you over powered the sub causing it to heat and fry...does it smell?
make sure on your next sub you get a sub that can handle the rms or turn your gain down...like other people said a capacitor is only tempary solution to a every lasting problem....in other words useless pretty much..check all your wires..fuses...make sure the right gauge is use for the amp....also your box needs the right specs...seal boxs tend to handle more rms for subs but ported cant cuz of the movement of air.

[powerkor]

i doubt i over powered the sub since the amp was made to power it (kicker impulse sub and amp)... it doesn't smell from outside the box.... the only thing i think it sound with it is when i tap on the cone it doesnt make a bass tone.. it just sounds like im hitting the surface.

i didn't open it up yet to see if the wires inside are correctly connected, but i will asap... all the wiring seems to be solidly connected outside the box.

the gain and bass settings were set up with the dial right in the middle.

fuses intact.

i'll have to get a screwdriver and unscrew the sub from the box too see what the hell is going on. I think its one of three things...

1) burned voice coil
2) loose wire inside the box
3) busted seal

[jbnery6465]

why the hell did you put an 18" sub in the first place...WoW!! and i thought the mtx 15" spl comp sub was huge enough...

[powerkor]

cus it sounds great and its freakin loud

[1900WattCelica]

Have you tried hooking up another speaker at all? The loose connections in the box is a definite possibility. I kinda doubt u fried your sub unless you dont know how to wire it.

[DamDirtyApes]

im sure an 18 inch sub doesnt sound great, it is simply to big to h ave tight clean bass. 8,10, or 12 are the only sizes that u will get great sounding bass out of, 12 is even pushing it

[powerkor]

that's ur opinion, ive heard many subs, and this 18" is at the top of its game. its deep, clear and loud. i guess you'd just have to hear it to believe.

[Scarrell]

ok lets not start an arguement about that, this topic is about the sound, so have you come to any conclusions? or tried anything else? let us know how your trouble is coming along

[Drocay]

its fried, same exact thing happend to my old polk.

[Ricky]

first thind I would do is to lower the gain on the amp and test a different speaker to see if the amp is working properly.

second, connect the box to a different amp, if you dont have another amp just ask one of your friends. test the box.

Now you isolated the amp from the speaker box.

going by what you described the capacitor will not help you at all. It is to release big amout of power when is needed. this does not sound like the problem you mentioned.

Speakers do not get blown unless you are applying a ton of power into a speaker, the main reason for a speaker to be blown is distortion...

do you have a X-over going into the sub cuting off the mid and hi frequencies or are you running it at full range ? if you are running them at full range there is a possibility that the cone was damaged....

[powerkor]

i had it running on low freq not full range

[Digndoug]

no matter what your lights will dim. you might want to look into a high ouput altenator and Optima batteries (even with this your lights will dim, but not nearly as bad). there is no solution to this. remember to check ALL your wiring and ground points. and make sure you have the proper fuse size in.
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You really dont know anything about cap's then. A cap, is in easy terms, a batt that rechages 100 times fast, there for you wont hav dimming. I have 2 12" subs, and when i max it out, pushing 1800 watts i get NO dimming what so ever. I also have a 2 farad cap. but this has nothing to do with the sub being blown.

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

sub aint fried.... check ur ground wire first... thats probably melted... replace it with a thicker one and put it in a better spot...

peace

[Scarrell]

haha...thats funny....your subs are pushing 1800watts? wow ive never heard of that.. please tell me how your subs are pushing 1800watts? what amp are you using? oh and do some research kid.... caps are a "if you want" type of thing. oh and a cap holds a charge til its needed also.. thanks for trying, but please try again.

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

scarell i dont know u , but ur a fool.

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

my 10" 's pump 1300 RMS... im sure a 18 can hit harder

[Scarrell]

im a fool? ive posted what could be the problem. i told him to check all his wires. he hasnt replied to much. so there isnt anything more we can do til he updates us. as you said, you dont know me. anyone can tell you to get a cap, but anyone can also tell you that you dont have to have one, also any mechanic/car audio guy can tell you that your lights will dim period. theres a difference between a small system and a big system, bigger the system the more current it pulls. and why am i a fool? theres a question. and by my last post, Your subs do not push anything, the amp pushes the subs. a capacitor IS Not a battery. your car couldnt run off of it for one.

A capacitor WILL:
-Stiffen voltage rails. If you experience very brief, momentary periods of high current demand that cause the electrical system to falter only at these rare, peak draw times, then a capacitor will supply the additional current needed (when bass hits) to keep your voltage rails stiff, and prevent damage to the car or audio equipment.
-Increase response times for musical accuracy by reducing delay caused by transient response times between current demands from the amplifier, and response to this by the electrical system. In other words, your subs will respond more quickly, because they don't have to wait for the alternator to supply additional current at the moment of demand. Amplifiers have to provide a very dynamic and quick response many times. A capacitor can assist in this if the rest of the charging system is up to par.

A capacitor will NOT:
-replace the need for a larger, high-output alternator and/or a deep-cycle battery or batteries.
If your electrical system is inadequate, the ONLY way to fix this, and again I repeat, the ONLY WAY to fix this, is to replace the alternator. This is the SOLE source of electrical current for your car when the motor is running.
When the motor is turned off, the battery then becomes your source of electricity.
When the battery is run down, and when the capacitor(s) is/are depleted, the alternator has to work even harder in order to supply current to the car, the audio system, and also to recharge the capacitor(s) (which deplete very quickly) as well as recharge the car's battery(ies).
So by adding a capacitor to try taking the place of a high-output alternator, you are actually causing more work for your alternator, and causing even more damage to that stock alternator.
-make your system magically sound 10 times better.

Many people believe that a capacitor adds NO real benefit to an audio system, and this is why you never see before and after demonstrations, or factory capacitor company vehicles at competition events.
A capacitor does have it's uses, but it is not a magical fix for a lacking electrical system.

To calculate the capacitance needed for your system, you will need to find the peak or max power ratings of your amplifiers, and add those together. This is the only time peak amplifier power ratings are even remotely useful, since a capacitor is only used to cover very brief peak demands, and not cover for the continuous amplifier demands.
Take the peak power total and figure 1 farad of capacitance for every 1000 watts of power.

ALSO: http://www.bcae1.com/capacitr.htm

Upon reading and answering many questions about car audio, one question always pops up:
"Do I need a high output alternator or just a capacitor?"
If you want a killer system, you may think that all you need are big amplifiers and huge speakers. Not so! Adding a bunch of car audio components to your vehicle without the proper charging system may lead you to disappointment, distortion and damaged equipment.

Let's say you install a 1,200 watt amplifier in your ride. Your rides charging system must produce enough electrical current to run the amplifier. Now how do you know how much current is needed? Simple: divide the RMS power rating of the amplifier by the amount of voltage your cars electrical system will produce then add in amplifier inefficiency based on amplifier class.

Most vehicle electrical systems are 12.5VDC at idle, and between 13.8 and 14.4VDC above about 900rpm but we use 12 volts as the standard for these calculations, so 1,200 watts divided by 12 volts equals 100 Amperes of current. If this is a class D amplifier, it'll be ~80% efficiend, so we'll add 20% of 100A to the total, and we get about 120A of current demand continuously at peak amp output. This means that the electrical system of the vehicle will need to produce an extra 120 Amperes of electrical current to power your amplifier and subwoofer at peak levels. Keep in mind that the factory electrical system is designed to produce enough charging power (alternator and battery) for the vehicle's stock equipment, and was not designed to accomodate high-powered audio systems.

The biggest mistake made by consumers and (some) installers is failing to beef up the charging system to handle the extra load of the audio system. First, you need to understand how the electrical system operates. This must be one of the most mis-understood systems of the entire vehicle, so here's a brief summary:

Turning the ignition key begins the process of cranking the motor. The battery supplies the power to get things started. Once the engine is running, the electrical burden is shifted over to the alternator. The alternator uses the engine's mechanical power to produce electrical (AC) current. The AC current is passed through a rectifier and changed to DC current which is then sent through a voltage regulator to smooth out and set the voltage rails for the car . The alternator also has the duty of recharging the battery after starting the vehicle by providing a forward bias voltage higher than that which the battery produces on it's own.

Everything works perfectly so long as the power requirements of the vehicle do not exceed the capabilities of the alternator. If the peak output is surpassed due to excessive load, then power will be pulled from the battery. If the alternator and battery combined cannot meet the demand, then the vehicle's voltage rails, and subsequently the electrical devices are diminished (dimming lights, spark plug misfires, audio distortion and amplifier clipping, or even the car stalling.)

The first place to look to determine if your charging system is up to the task is the alternator itself. If possible, look for the HOT RATING on the alternator. IF you can't see it easily, call a local auto-parts store or car dealership and ask them to look up the stock alternator size, or rating for your vehicle. The hot rating will tell you the amount of power the alternator will produce once the engine reaches it's operating temperature (this is a lower rating than the cold rating). I suggest using your stock alternator unless you experience problems. That's how you know if you need to upgrade, since there is no concrete way to tell if a stock alternator has enough reserve to handle your additional burdens. Now, if you do need a new and larger alternator, after finding the stock rating, then allow your alternator about 10 Amperes credit or buffer area.

As a note, when calculating your required current for your audio system, this is an easy way to do it:

1: calculate the total RMS wattage of your system based on how the amplifiers are wired (2 Ohm load, 4 Ohm load etc)

2: take that total RMS rating, and divide by 12.

3: add 20% for class D and T or 40% for class AB.

4: add amplifier totals together for a combined measurement.

This is how many Amperes your audio system will require in addition to what your car already needs (stock alternator rating) at full output.

For more information on charging systems and alternators, see here:
www.bcae1.com/chargin2.htm

[Digndoug]

haha...thats funny....your subs are pushing 1800watts? wow ive never heard of that.. please tell me how your subs are pushing 1800watts? what amp are you using? oh and do some research kid.... caps are a "if you want" type of thing. oh and a cap holds a charge til its needed also.. thanks for trying, but please try again.
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First off dont call me a fuccking kid, Iv sold car- audio equipment for three years, I instaled on three cars that have entered comitioons and won. yes i am pushing 1800 watts, If you lookin my profile, I have rockford 700s. I never said a cap is a must have, but it def helps.. and simple enough like i was trying to say for peps that dont understand, a cap will reduce a max overload to the batt, so your lights dont dim. Im not sure why i bother somtimes..

[Scarrell]

well that is very wonderful, i dont know why you bother either, i mean did i just type all of that out up there for no reason? or do you want me to call you and explain it or make a video and send it to you? i mean do you talk this way to your mother? for someone who has been selling for 3 looooong years and installed in cars that have won comps(let me tell you that is hard ) , i am obviously not up to your level of car audio, i will bow down to you master, i am sorry and i love you. lets go on a date too.




This post has been edited by Scarrell: Nov 17, 2004 - 9:18 PM

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

sub is fried, you can hook another sub up to it to find this out.
[right][snapback]205688[/snapback][/right]

haha...thats funny....your subs are pushing 1800watts? wow ive never heard of that.. please tell me how your subs are pushing 1800watts? what amp are you using? oh and do some research kid.... caps are a "if you want" type of thing. oh and a cap holds a charge til its needed also.. thanks for trying, but please try again.
[right][snapback]208269[/snapback][/right]

like i said.

[Yota]

I have in my car:

-Xtant A6001 Monoblock class D amplifier
-Eclipse EA 3422 4 channel amplifier
-Stinger 1 farad capacitor
-Two 12" Infinity Kappa Subwoofers
-6.5" Infinity Kappa 3 way speakers in the rear
-6.5" Infinity Kappa components in doors
-Kenwood Excelon Headunit
-4 gauge wiring

I still get major headlight dim when the bass booms.. Why is that? I thought the capacitor was to eliminate that. Its seriously just as bad as when it was before I got the capacitor.

Edit: I forgot, I have a Red Top Optima battery too.

This post has been edited by Yota: Nov 18, 2004 - 6:29 PM

[Scarrell]

because your Altenator is your power source, and capacitor or new battery will not solve this, getting a high output altenator is the solvent, but there is still going to be some dimming.

[Yota]

so where does one go to get that alternator?

[Digndoug]

well that is very wonderful, i dont know why you bother either, i mean did i just type all of that out up there for no reason? or do you want me to call you and explain it or make a video and send it to you? i mean do you talk this way to your mother? for someone who has been selling for 3 looooong years and installed in cars that have won comps(let me tell you that is hard ) , i am obviously not up to your level of car audio, i will bow down to you master, i am sorry and i love you. lets go on a date too.



[right][snapback]208318[/snapback][/right]

Alright jackasss , now why do you have to be such a 12 y/o pos? thats all i would like to know.

Second off, i dont think you even have a right to come close to speaking like that, sence you have only been on this board for 10 days.

This post has been edited by Digndoug: Nov 19, 2004 - 12:23 AM

[Yota]

I agree with you Digndoug... I think that was a totally uncalled for.

[Makaveddie]

lol what a funny post, i missed this one.

Ya, try to keep it mature people.

As for the power situation:

High Output alternator is usually the best way to go (make sure you have a high capacity battery as well). Capacitors tend to store power for when it is needed, but if your alternator cannot put out enough power, the cap will be drained, leaving your alternator to charge both the battery and the cap. This will stress it to the point of dying, leaving you in the middle of the road with no power. NOT FUN.

Conclusion: google "high output alternators," and email people to see if they make one or can make one for your car. They will need to know the year, model, engine size, and if it's manual/automatic.

Make sure that when you ask for a high output alternator, they aren't just "rewinding" your alternator. This will leave high output at high rpm's, but when you are idling it will leave you with no power. Get a brand new alternator that will fit right in, and make sure you get an alternator that idles at high output.

The 94 st hatchback manual comes stock with a 60 amp alternator I believe. This number is MAXIMUM. Find an alternator that will put out 50 amps idle, or more.

$.02 from Ed.

[Scarrell]

well this is the internet, so my right to free speech is limitless....

check out

www.mraltenator.com
www.alternatorparts.com
www.nexxon.com <-- they have alot of altenators, but i think their site is down for a bit? or you can go to your local auto shop and talk to them..

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

get a 110

[Gilbert_619]

yeah caps are no good...they help but dont solve anything...altenator is the way to go...try going to a plcae that works with altenators they most the time can rewine your altenator to make more power output

[Blakout16]

yah guys i'd listen to soundslut... he knows his stuff

This post has been edited by Blakout16: Nov 20, 2004 - 4:10 PM