Me just thinking at work again Options

[macavely]

Ok so as most of you know I do much of nothing at work..
know what do your guys thinking about a 5sfte with a stand alone?


i was think that would be nothing but good .. you'll get to monitor the engine better and change what needs to be .. and squeez more power of it... i'll go more into detail later.. but i want to read your guys thoughts..

[Blakout16]

that'd be pretty good, other than a price. but i dont think much else can be squeezed out... maybe a good 10+ ? ur gonna have to mod it way more to make it work better ie. exhaust, cat, headers, cai. just the basics would make a big diff with a stand alone. but with just stock. not much.

[doGGy]

Wrong With the same setup and different managment (Pigyback And good Stand alone) you could squeeze more then + 10, and you could not only gain some power, but be more safe.. Good adjustment always keeps your engine more alive..

that'd be pretty good, other than a price. but i dont think much else can be squeezed out... maybe a good 10+ ? ur gonna have to mod it way more to make it work better ie. exhaust, cat, headers, cai. just the basics would make a big diff with a stand alone. but with just stock. not much.
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[Dr_Tweak]

Wrong With the same setup and different managment (Pigyback And good Stand alone) you could squeeze more then + 10, and you could not only gain some power, but be more safe.. Good adjustment always keeps your engine more alive..
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Word.

And if you use Megasquirt, then it's not that expensive at all.

[ice23q]

i am running a standalone with my set up...its an EMS8860...yes its better
as doggy said and you can tune it safe.....i have a 3" exhaust and high flow cat
plus a few other parts and am getting good HP out of it.....

[bufferdan]

Wont be near as reliable as a 3sgte. The 3sgte is already built for a turbo and drops directly into the 6gc...so why even bother going another route? Want more problems? Custom build the 5sfe...what a reliable, powerful, turbo car? Go 3sgte

[lagos]

no comment

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 29, 2004 - 7:23 PM

[macavely]

well a 3sgte swap is just not an option for everyone.. and if it just dropped in like you say.. then everyone would have done the swap in one day ... and engine you add boost to is relabile and safe to a point.. just like a 3sgte and reliable and saft to a point.. its all about know they limits and knowing what you want to get out of motor... myself i don't want a car that is over 200whp... my first car was a 320whp car.. and till this day i thank God i didn't kill myself... So please .. no one asked in this thread what egine would be better to do what... a topic was given so can you please keep the thread to that topic.. thank you ..

[presure2]

QUOTE(bufferdan @ Nov 29, 2004 - 8:24 AM)
Wont be near as reliable as a 3sgte.  The 3sgte is already built for a turbo and drops directly into the 6gc...so why even bother going another route?  Want more problems?  Custom build the 5sfe...what a reliable, powerful, turbo car?  Go 3sgte



im with stupid!

this Sh*t has to stop. if ya got nothing good to add, dont bother.
not EVERYONE has the $$ for the swap, and DONT tell me you can do the swap for the same $$ ..its not gonna happen, not "reliably" anyway.
besides, some people just wanna be a little diffrent, and try and push the celica forward in a diffrent way, nothing wrong or right about it.
all you guys that come up and post, "uhg just get a 3s", ..PLEASE dont bother, we've ALL heard it, and dont really care.

mac, standalone is without a doubt the best way to go with the 5sfte, with a good tuner. the only downfall is cost.
theres a few guys over on the MR2 boards that are getting VERY impressive numbers outta the 5s w/ ems.
itchy has the basis of a pretty good setup that he's been using pretty well till the turbo gave up, the combination of the BTM and SAFC seem to be doing at least a decent job of keeping things in check.
once a few more of us get up and running here in the near future, we'll all start to learn ALOT more about what the 5sfte can do.
manny

This post has been edited by presure2: Nov 29, 2004 - 10:13 AM

[celicaspeed]

I think it would make a huhe difference with a good stand alone!But a megasquirt is not the way to go.If you are going standalone go aem,haltec,wolf these are true standalone and they controll all your maps,fuel,timming,maf,etc...More power thru the whole rpm band.Apexi safc 2 is pretty good but its limited what you can do with it.A standalone is a whole new ecu for your car and if tuned properly you can make some great gains.I give all you guys props that are using the stock motor and going turbo.As for me I went with a st165 3sgte because it is unheard of using the first gen and also using the stock 5sfe harness to run the whole car with it.I want a car that is insanely fast and has crazy hp and torque.And originall thats why I havent posted picks because I want to wait till its done so people will be overwhelmed with the hours of work and thought that went into building my car.GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO TAKE THERE TIME AND DO IT RIGHT!!!!HAHA!! Keep up the good work guys!

[Coomer]

Celicaspeed, why don't you like Megasquirt? If(and this is a big if) I do keep my car, I'm planning on going megasquirt if I can get it to work correctly with the individual throttle bodies.

What kind of standalone are you considering Mac?

[bufferdan]

UMM...Ok. Its not going to stop because its the most realistic way to get the power most people want.. SO dont get mad just because you happen to have a turbo 5sfe...thats great and all but like most people have figured out, the best way to get the power is drop a 3sgte in. And how is that not going to be reliable? Drop a stock 3sgte in and it will be just as reliable as a stock 3sgte in any car. The engines are virtually bulletproof stock. Use a mr2T tranny and you will have one solid car.

Now if you went with the swap you would say what i say and most others...dont get mad. I agree its different and all but different doesnt always mean best. In order to build the 5sfe up to par with 3sgte you will have to spend some good money on a built motor. The 3sgte WAS BUILT for a turbo..the 5sfe WAS NOT! End of story.

[bufferdan]

oh... and yes standalone is the best (even on a modded 3sgte)...but to get the best you must spend the $$... Just like turbo'in your car

[celicaspeed]

I think you are missunderstanding the question that is being asked.They want to know about turbo on a 5sfe and what standalone to use.The megasquirt is good if you just want to controll the injecters, fuel,air,and I think maybe timing.But the true standalone will control all the maps and the maf,fuel,timing,injecters,any size injecters.It will also work with future mods like bored out throttle bodies and bigger injecters and bigger maf,etc...So that is the difference.It all depends what you want your car to do.From the sound of it Coomer you should stick to a apexi safc2 or a e manage eo1 and that would be more than enough for what you are after as for me I want big because I have big power goals for my car and everything on the car will be big so I need something that is for that goal

[bufferdan]

I know what he is asking. The answer is pretty obvious too. What does that standalone cost ya? 1000+$?? I think the nemesis for the mr2 is like 1400$...jeh, you could buy a 3sgte for that much. I dont see what the benefit here is besides being different.

[Kwanza26]

I think you are missunderstanding the question that is being asked.They want to know about turbo on a 5sfe and what standalone to use.The megasquirt is good if you just want to controll the injecters, fuel,air,and I think maybe timing.But the true standalone will control all the maps and the maf,fuel,timing,injecters,any size injecters.It will also work with future mods like bored out throttle bodies and bigger injecters and bigger maf,etc...So that is the difference.It all depends what you want your car to do.From the sound of it Coomer you should stick to a apexi safc2 or a e manage eo1 and that would be more than enough for what you are after as for me I want big because I have big power goals for my car and everything on the car will be big so I need something that is for that goal
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Megasquirt is a true standalone... it can do all that and then some...

Bufferdan: just stop it already. You obviously don't know enough to make a good argument so unless you want to be utterly crushed... just shut up...

[celicaspeed]

are you refering to me as being different.I have a 3sgte.I just have a 1st gen compared to everyones 2nd gen.That is how Im different.A standalone is like $1000 to $2000.A apexi safc 2 is $250 and will do the trick on a 5sfe engine with a turbo.But this is a piggy back but it would be perfect.

This post has been edited by celicaspeed: Nov 29, 2004 - 4:13 PM

[celicaspeed]

Kwanza the megasquirt doesnt do the same as a AEM,Haltec,Wolf. They all have similar qualities but you think that $1000 dollars difference is because they are the same?I highly doubt that.All you guys have to do is research and compare and its there in black and white.

[presure2]

Bufferdan: just stop it already. You obviously don't know enough to make a good argument so unless you want to be utterly crushed... just shut up...

this time ill say it
::im with stupid::
and BTW...just so you know, im not "mad" as you put it...just sick and tired of you guys that do a swap, and think your god, and know EVERYTHING there is to know about the celica...heres a news flash for ya, you dont!
manny

This post has been edited by presure2: Nov 29, 2004 - 4:16 PM

[Coomer]

Celicaspeed, If you do some research, you'll find that Megasquirt setups can do all of that, and more, like Kwanza said. The reason it's cheaper is because you build it yourself. And a S-AFC2 or E-Manage is not what I have in mind...those are just piggyback air/fuel and ignition(in the E-Manage's case) computers.

[Kwanza26]

Kwanza the megasquirt doesnt do the same as a AEM,Haltec,Wolf. They all have similar qualities but you think that $1000 dollars difference is because they are the same?I highly doubt that.All you guys have to do is research and compare and its there in black and white.
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I never said they were the same. I said it can handle almost all of the things those expensive standalone units can. It can do fuel maps, ignition maps, and so on. Because it's DIY, it has quite some expandability also. Megasquirt has been programmed to do DLI ignition, VVT, live mapping, etc... it's a great system. It's only drawback... it's a DIY system that requires custom building and some ingenuity. That's the ONLY reason why it's much cheaper. It's not quite as cut-paste as the more expensive standalones. The reason Coomer would be looking to go megasquirt, eliminate the AFM. That being done, he can go open ITBs, have full tuneability, data logging, etc. It's not as easy as the more expensive stuff... but it's every bit as capable...

[macavely]

Coomer--- I not sure which standalone i'll go with... it will just come down to what will give me the most options and durablity... but for that i have to do some more homework.. its been a while since i read up on whats out.. so i really don't know whats new out there...


so for the people saying just do 3sgte.. for some people tis not about money..its just simply about what you want .. i know what i want.. I don't want to have more power then they guys have did a swap.. i don't wantto have the fastest car around.. i just want a little more kick to my car.. something i can allso remove in a few hours when i have to go get inspected... and thats just that...

[bufferdan]

okay..i guess i dont know about celica's..i just do all my own work on them..have 2 mr2 turbos and 2 6gc celica's at my house now...i guess i dont know. Just because i dont play on the internet all day and listen to peoples opinions doesnt mean i dont know. You dont know what i know and dont.

[macavely]

okay..i guess i dont know about celica's..i just do all my own work on them..have 2 mr2 turbos and 2 6gc celica's at my house now...i guess i dont know.  Just because i dont play on the internet all day and listen to peoples opinions doesnt mean i dont know.  You dont know what i know and dont.
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your taking this post the worng way... its cool you know a lot about toyotas... but your taking it the worng way... everyone that posted on this.. knows that the 3sgte can do... be a lot of us also know what the 5s.. can do...so next time just please answer the questions asked... we are all here to help each other out... not put each other down...

[bufferdan]

sorry...i know what you mean.

Here is alittle info...kinda outdated probably but it is info
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25428

[macavely]

sorry...i know what you mean.

Here is alittle info...kinda outdated probably but it is info
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25428
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its cool is seams we are all on the same page now.. and thanks for the info any little bit helps.... if you have more fourms like that or anyother info please post...

[doGGy]

here goes nothing...

Im already 2 years from now started my project.. Gone long way on every posible info (7A-FTE). Thought about 3S bout 5 times, almost droped my project and almost got ST205 front clip... ya know what stoped me? Money... Cuz with turbo project, you can spend LESS, cuz if i wanted to get st205 front clip i hade to pay 2500$ AT ONCE, and i could pay this money, but after this i had to live like a homless person With the turbo, you can spend way less at one time, basicly if you want you can spend same $ at once, but i ussualy trying to manage my funds that i could live like normal person and at the same build my car... i spend about 150-400$ a month on my turbo project, and still have money left for partys and etc..

3S is a good engine, everyone know this, but not everyone is able to fit it in celi by theyr own hands...

I know that in future if i still have my C i will deff go the 3S route, if my 7A blows up

just my opinion...

[celicaspeed]

Kwanza you said it they are not the same!Coomer you should definately do some more home work!The megasquirt has to be put to gether!Evere made a mother board?Do you think it come with instruction of what goes were?Have you ever sodered thing to a board.IT A B***h!The other top standalones have all this done and they come mapped for your car or you tune them to your mods and so on.Just for fuel the aem has 21 different adjustable setting JUST FOR FUEL!You can eliminate your afm,maf competely because it run it for you.I think if you have the know how and the patience its great.Then I would suggest buying them and build them for other people and make some money.But I doubt that.As for the e manage being better go to school dude.I think you a referring to the first safc.Im talking about the safc2 much better system and easier to use.I think that the piggy back would be more than enough for your car unless you are building a race engine.Im going that route is because I am going to use bigger injecters and eliminate the maf,afm,2bar map sensor and go to 3 bar.The standalone will let me do this.I have friend running with the aem and the megasquirt and they wished they went with the aem because they have reached the potencail limits of the megasquirt and need to change.MORE MONEY!DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AND NEVER HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN.Do some research and find out more and you will see.

[Kwanza26]

Kwanza you said it they are not the same!Coomer you should definately do some more home work!The megasquirt has to be put to gether!Evere made a mother board?Do you think it come with instruction of what goes were?Have you ever sodered thing to a board.IT A B***h!The other top standalones have all this done and they come mapped for your car or you tune them to your mods and so on.Just for fuel the aem has 21 different adjustable setting JUST FOR FUEL!You can eliminate your afm,maf competely because it run it for you.I think if you have the know how and the patience its great.Then I would suggest buying them and build them for other people and make some money.But I doubt that.As for the e manage being better go to school dude.I think you a referring to the first safc.Im talking about the safc2 much better system and easier to use.I think that the piggy back would be more than enough for your car unless you are building a race engine.Im going that route is because I am going to use bigger injecters and eliminate the maf,afm,2bar map sensor and go to 3 bar.The standalone will let me do this.I have friend running with the aem and the megasquirt and they wished they went with the aem because they have reached the potencail limits of the megasquirt and need to change.MORE MONEY!DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AND NEVER HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN.Do some research and find out more and you will see.
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What the hell are you talking about? I never once mentioned E manage or SAFC, all I said was Megasquirt is a true standalone and has more than enough potential to justify calling it a standalone unit. You can praise all these other things all you want... Megasquirt IS a standalone and can hang with the expensive toys... You're really getting bent out of shape for nothing...

Here's Some Megasquirt reading for you...

[celicaspeed]

Kwanza I wasnt refering to you when I mentioned the emanage and the safc2.Im sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you or anyone else,that was not my intention. I was talking to Bufferdan.And Im not saying that the megasquirt isnt a standalone.Im saying that the aem,haltec,wolf ,motec is a much better system and it can do more than the megasquirt can and you can fine tune your car alot more than you can with the megasquirt.

This post has been edited by celicaspeed: Dec 1, 2004 - 12:41 PM

[celicaspeed]

Now here is some stuff for you guys that are thinking standalone check this out and do a comparison to see the difference. log on to AEM EMS STANDALONE SYSTEM. take a look and tell me what you guys think.It all depends what a person wants to pay and there goals.

[nik]

Well I’m not saying anything about stand alone but as for the piggy back ecu I well say the the greddy E-manager w/ Profec e-01 is way better than the SAFC 2.

http://www.apexi-usa.com/electronics_safc.asp
http://www.greddy.com/
http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/

[Coomer]

The Megasquirt really isn't that hard to put together. They have fully detailed instructions on how to mount each component, a dedicated forum to help people out, etc. I recently talked to my friend with a turbocharged fifth gen. Celica ST and he's running Megasquirt and said it wasn't hard to build or setup at all. And it was his first time soldering a board and stuff.

And although there may be some things that it can't do, it's plenty powerful to do what most people want. And it'd be plenty powerful for me...so why would I want to spend an extra $800+ for something like the AEM EMS or something like that?

Celicaspeed, can you list some of the stuff that the standalones you like do that the Megasquirt doesn't do?

Oh, and by the way, I fully agree with Nik on the E-Manage vs. S-AFC II issue. The E-Manage can control things like ignition spark where the S-AFC II cannot.

[celicaspeed]

Its all there for you to research it all depends what you want.In my opinion you know what I think is a better system.But for what you wantperfect and it still is better than the piggy back but for controlling fuel and timing etc the piggy back is all set up and ready to play.Like I said it all depends what the person wants and wants to spend.The e manage is better than the safc2 but it has to be the eo1.Than it come down to price on how much you want to spend. safc2 $250 vs a manage eo1 $450-500.

This post has been edited by celicaspeed: Dec 1, 2004 - 1:03 PM

[nik]

easy to read monitor data logging able to record and can store different maps just to say a few. And if you want to talk about price dont bother i got the Profec e-01 brand new 350 the e-manage used like new 140 w/ ignition/injector harness so total so far 490 i'm about to buy the pressure sensor with harness so i can have a 3 bar.
grand total $600

gotta love ebay

[celicaspeed]

Thats it! Got to love ebay and hope to get the best deal.I love ebay!

[Kwanza26]

Its all there for you to research it all depends what you want.In my opinion you know what I think is a better system.But for what you wantperfect and it still is better than the piggy back but for controlling fuel and timing etc the piggy back is all set up and ready to play.Like I said it all depends what the person wants and wants to spend.
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That's assuming what Coomer wants to do... but that's not all he wants. The main goal would be to eliminate the AFM on his Silvertop 20V... not just fuel control...

As for mac... he's gonna be doing a 5SFTE... which pretty much *requires* fuel control. You gotta assume he wants a bit more adjustability than that... since he's asking the questions here... right?

[celicaspeed]

Kwanza you got a point!

[nik]

Thats it! Got to love ebay and hope to get the best deal.I love ebay!
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you know it

[doGGy]

well, i heard one bad thing about megasquirt from my local tuning boys, who done several cars with megasquirt... there is practily no IDLE or idel is very very routh... and it is not adjustible in a easy way... Dont know about this, but this backed me from megasquirt...

Can someone confirm this?

[Fox-N-It2]

well, i heard one bad thing about megasquirt from my local tuning boys, who done several cars with megasquirt... there is practily no IDLE or idel is very very routh... and it is not adjustible in a easy way... Dont know about this, but this backed me from megasquirt...

Can someone confirm this?
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Your tuning boys must suck at tuning. The first step in tuning anything is getting the idle down. After that with a wideband it should be a breeze to map out the rest.

[doGGy]

you would be surprised what cars they done, but with megasquirt they had problems... and all those problems where the same - IDLE...

thats what im sayng... they tune everything, and they sell everything, and they build N/A cars that do 10.3 in 1/4 mile... But ya, you are right, they suck.......

well, i heard one bad thing about megasquirt from my local tuning boys, who done several cars with megasquirt... there is practily no IDLE or idel is very very routh... and it is not adjustible in a easy way... Dont know about this, but this backed me from megasquirt...

Can someone confirm this?
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Your tuning boys must suck at tuning. The first step in tuning anything is getting the idle down. After that with a wideband it should be a breeze to map out the rest.
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[Kwanza26]

well, i heard one bad thing about megasquirt from my local tuning boys, who done several cars with megasquirt... there is practily no IDLE or idel is very very routh... and it is not adjustible in a easy way... Dont know about this, but this backed me from megasquirt...

Can someone confirm this?
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The idle should be tuned first. There is some difficulty to it, but there are also other adjustments besides the computer. You gotta be able to user all of those things together to make it right. We've had a couple of cars come in for minor things that were running megasquirt and they were all DIY tuned and they all had stable idles. This was an RX7 I'm talking about also...

[1bwilson]

Jumped in on this thread on the 3rd page. Read a little bit of it but im sure its full of "Just 3sgte it"

If you go with standalone do a 5sGTE. With the standalone you can control the 3s head with no problems. Yes you can put a 3s in there but where would be the fun?

stand alone
CP pistons + Total seal rings
3sgte rods or your likeing
3sgte head (P&Ped)
5s block

This would be a fine settup and the biggest flaw would be the trans. And if you look at it that way many of you swappers have the same trans.