ST engine upgrade Options

[Black97]

How can I get an engine upgrade for my 97 st? not sure where to go to find it, or how much it would cost

[Zoom]

Engine upgrade...what do you mean? You can do a lot of things to change your engine, but if you really want speed your going to have to swap it .

[Black97]

sorry I meant what's the swap that you need to do, I know there's the 3sgte for the gt's, but what is it for the st's?

[forkee]

4age, u mean?

[3TST]

As far as I am aware (that is, for european models) it should be possible to slot in a 5SFE motor staright in.
I have never done it, nor do I know anyone that's done it, but in theory it seems feasible.

[ghostdog]

QUOTE (vphmc @ Dec 2 2002, 06:37 AM)

As far as I am aware (that is, for european models) it should be possible to slot in a 5SFE motor staright in. I have never done it, nor do I know anyone that's done it, but in theory it seems feasible.

no, sorry, the 5SFE swap is not a good idea. 20 hp for what? 2 grand?

if you are looking for torque go for the 4AGZE, if you are looking for high end power get the 4AGE 20v. and if your 7A has low miles or you plan to rebuild it, add a turbo to it.

[3TST]

QUOTE (gh0st_d0g @ Dec 2 2002, 10:51 AM)

QUOTE ...and if your 7A has low miles or you plan to rebuild it, add a turbo to it.

What happens if you add a turbo to a 7A with a high mileage?
Why is it no advised?

What does a turbo setup consist of?
How much are you looking at for a turbo setup?

French law, vehicle controls and bureaucratic red tape mean that I can't do a swap.
So I'll have to go the turbo route eventually.

[whitefuzz]

can't you throw a 3sgte in a st celica???

(just asking i don't know it myself but i thought this could be done...)

[ghostdog]

QUOTE (whitefuzz @ Dec 5 2002, 05:35 AM)

can't you throw a 3sgte in a st celica??? (just asking i don't know it myself but i thought this could be done...)

yeah, putting a 3SGTE in an ST is very feasable. however, its going to cost you about 6 grand. I dunno about you, but thats a lot of money where I come from.

4AGZE swap will most likely cost you about 4 grand, while a turbo setup will cost you 3 - 3.5k

if you need crazy power do a 3SGTE, but keep in mind your car is still going to be FF, not exactly a good way to get 250+ hp to the ground.

[CelicaLE]

I priced putting a 3sgte in my ST coupe...and the price i received was 3600-3800 dollars....included the new tranny, engine, clutch, new engine mounts, ecm, everything...he said i would drive it off the lot. its not as expensive if you find peopel that know howt o do it

[Mynzeyes]

QUOTE (gh0st_d0g @ Dec 6 2002, 06:29 PM)

QUOTE (whitefuzz @ Dec 5 2002, 05:35 AM) can't you throw a 3sgte in a st celica??? (just asking i don't know it myself but i thought this could be done...) yeah, putting a 3SGTE in an ST is very feasable. however, its going to cost you about 6 grand. I dunno about you, but thats a lot of money where I come from. 4AGZE swap will most likely cost you about 4 grand, while a turbo setup will cost you 3 - 3.5k if you need crazy power do a 3SGTE, but keep in mind your car is still going to be FF, not exactly a good way to get 250+ hp to the ground.

i dunno where you're gettin your 4k dollar 4agze...but you can get the clip for 2200 easy, and do the work yourself, as the engine drops right in on the stock mounts and uses the same axles as the celi, also, you get the LSD transmission. also, think about that 2200 bucks gettin the clip, you can sell all the body panels to ae86'ers and make some of that money back.
-John-

[ghostdog]

if you want to make ~200 hp with a 4AGZE you are gonna need custom axles. and if your not gonna upgrade the pulleys whats the point of getting a 4AGZE? might as well stick with a 7AFTE and run low boost. also keep in mind nobody, that I know of, has done a 4AGZE swap into a ST Celica. we all know hidden costs are what drive the price of a swap up. ask anyone, you gotta overestimate so you aren't financially cut off incase something goes wrong.

CelicaLE, I'd be interested to know your guy who does 3SGTE swaps into an ST for 3800. hell, I'd drive halfway across the country for that...

[NEVERSTOP]

the 4agze will NOT work in a 6th gen Celica...period.
The engine will not work because it is not a "S" motor... the subframe is completly different.

Just because a 3sgte and 5sfe fit into a MR2 doesn't mean that a 4agze will fit into a 6th gen.

The MR2 with the 4agze is from 87-89
The MR2 with the 5sfe and 3sgte are from 90-95

These MR2's have different subframe and will not work as swaps for each other.

Cost to power ratio the 3sgte swap it the best there is for a 6th gen. and as for the 3sgte being front wheel drive you can do the rearend conversion for under a grand. If you buy your 3sgte engine the right way it will come with the allwheel drive transmission. all you need is the transfer case and rear end... you will need new shocks and struts and have to relocate the gas tank but its way worth it.

[sleepy_b]

i have also seen 3-sgte swaps for a price around 3800 but that was in the gt model not the st. and im pretty sure u have to do some work to the mounts to make the the engine fit. but if u want to find the engine you can find one at toysport.com or ebay usually has some for a good price. j-spec my friend. thats where the power is. get the japanese model.

[CelicaLE]

I asked the guy if he was sure about the price of the swap, he said yes, that he would do it for 3600, but plan on 200 dollars either way for a hose or clamp every now and then that might be needed. THe place is a complete custom shop...that's all they do...website is www.xtrememachinesusa.com

[ghostdog]

Neverstop, you know I respect you bro, but you are just plain wrong on this one. The 4AGZE was used in FF cars in Japan, and ST Celicas come with an A-series motor anyway so its a pretty direct swap. Less costly than the 3SGTE, and almost as much power, only downside is that it lacks potential past ~220 hp.

CelicaLE, let us know how the swap turns out for you. Like I said before 3600 is a GREAT price, some places charge that much for the clip alone. I'm guessing its a 2G 3SGTE right? with the standard top mount intercooler? You should price it with the FMIC and see what that comes out to be. Either way, sounds like a damn good deal.

[Mynzeyes]

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Dec 6 2002, 10:23 PM)

the 4agze will NOT work in a 6th gen Celica...period. The engine will not work because it is not a "S" motor... the subframe is completly different. Just because a 3sgte and 5sfe fit into a MR2 doesn't mean that a 4agze will fit into a 6th gen. The MR2 with the 4agze is from 87-89 The MR2 with the 5sfe and 3sgte are from 90-95 These MR2's have different subframe and will not work as swaps for each other. Cost to power ratio the 3sgte swap it the best there is for a 6th gen. and as for the 3sgte being front wheel drive you can do the rearend conversion for under a grand. If you buy your 3sgte engine the right way it will come with the allwheel drive transmission. all you need is the transfer case and rear end... you will need new shocks and struts and have to relocate the gas tank but its way worth it.

yeah dude, you're completely mis-informed about this. 4age and 4agze are basically the same, mounting wise, and i've seen the n/a version in a 6th gen, nad there's currently a guy swappinn the blown version in a 5th gen ST on celica.net. also, the 4agze is the engine of choice by me and one of my better friends on celica.net...the only thing you gotta do is move some of the equipment around. and as far as bang for your buck...the 3sgte and the 4agze are about equal money/power wise, but the 4agze is a much easier swap to complete. and yes, if you are gonnna go up past 200hp TO THE WHEELS w/ the 4agze, but that's another story.

[Mynzeyes]

QUOTE (mynzeyes @ Dec 7 2002, 01:05 PM)

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Dec 6 2002, 10:23 PM) the 4agze will NOT work in a 6th gen Celica...period. The engine will not work because it is not a "S" motor... the subframe is completly different. Just because a 3sgte and 5sfe fit into a MR2 doesn't mean that a 4agze will fit into a 6th gen. The MR2 with the 4agze is from 87-89 The MR2 with the 5sfe and 3sgte are from 90-95 These MR2's  have different subframe and will not work as swaps for each other. Cost to power ratio the 3sgte swap it the best there is for a 6th gen. and as for the 3sgte being front wheel drive you can do the rearend conversion for under a grand.  If you buy your 3sgte engine the right way it will come with the allwheel drive transmission. all you need is the transfer case and rear end... you will need new shocks and struts and have to relocate the gas tank but its way worth it. yeah dude, you're completely mis-informed about this. 4age and 4agze are basically the same, mounting wise, and i've seen the n/a version in a 6th gen, nad there's currently a guy swappinn the blown version in a 5th gen ST on celica.net. also, the 4agze is the engine of choice by me and one of my better friends on celica.net...the only thing you gotta do is move some of the equipment around. and as far as bang for your buck...the 3sgte and the 4agze are about equal money/power wise, but the 4agze is a much easier swap to complete. and yes, if you are gonnna go up past 200hp TO THE WHEELS w/ the 4agze, but that's another story.

oh btw NEVERSTOP, not all 6th gens have the S series engine like the GT...that's why the 4agze fits in the ST. b/c of the A series engine (7afe). but um...that's already been pointed out...anyway, research some buddy, you'll get it figured out.
-John-

[Charlie97L]

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Dec 6 2002, 10:23 PM)

Cost to power ratio the 3sgte swap it the best there is for a 6th gen. and as for the 3sgte being front wheel drive you can do the rearend conversion for under a grand. If you buy your 3sgte engine the right way it will come with the allwheel drive transmission. all you need is the transfer case and rear end... you will need new shocks and struts and have to relocate the gas tank but its way worth it.

Hey man, so you did an AWD conversion for 1K? are you joking? I want some pics, right now! if you can't post them email me meincl0@wfu.edu

thanks
charlie

[sleepy_b]

i dont know much about the 4age or 4agze engines, but i can say that there are more things to it than just horsepower. what rpm range does it top out at. thats a supercharged engine right(not sure). but that can have an effect on how much boost you can get or what size turbo you can put on it. for my 5sfe i have to go with a turbo that kicks in at a lower rpm range and cant push a hole lot of boost. but the 3sgte can use a larger turbo that kicks later but boost a hole lot more. hp isnt the only thing to look at theres a lot more things that you will run into when moding your ride that you didnt think about.

[NEVERSTOP]

well I will say that I know more about the gt than the st so I might be wrong about the 4a... I have a tendency to froget about the St, but when I looked into this about a year ago I was told by toyota that it will not work... but who knows? I'll take your word on it but I do know for a FACT that the 4a will NOT work in a GT

edit: I own page 2.... hell yeah!

[Mynzeyes]

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Dec 8 2002, 07:54 PM)

well I will say that I know more about the gt than the st so I might be wrong about the 4a... I have a tendency to froget about the St, but when I looked into this about a year ago I was told by toyota that it will not work... but who knows? I'll take your word on it but I do know for a FACT that the 4a will NOT work in a GT edit: I own page 2.... hell yeah!

sure the 4age would work in the GT..it'd be just like puttin a 3sgte in an ST..you'd have to redo the axles and motor mounts and what now. it's all interchangable man, just gotta do diff. stuff for diff. combos.
-John-

[kuya1284]

QUOTE (mynzeyes @ Dec 8 2002, 10:22 PM)

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Dec 8 2002, 07:54 PM) well I will say that I know more about the gt than the st so I might be wrong about the 4a... I have a tendency to froget about the St,  but when I looked into this about a year ago I was told by toyota that it will not work... but who knows?  I'll take your word on it but I do know for a FACT that the 4a will NOT work in a GT edit:  I own page 2.... hell yeah! sure the 4age would work in the GT..it'd be just like puttin a 3sgte in an ST..you'd have to redo the axles and motor mounts and what now. it's all interchangable man, just gotta do diff. stuff for diff. combos. -John-

What John said is ABSOLUTELY correct. And Neverstop, I would like an answer to Charlie's question as well. If you did perform an AWD conversion, I would like to know more information. Because performing an AWD conversion for under $1k is HIGHLY unbelieveable. You could barely buy a ST185 clip for that price.

[macavely]

damn i just finished reading everything on the form and i'm more confused the before. I'm going to have to call my dad and all his brother to help me out with my engine swap.

Now is someone could help me out with this one question i have. why can't you have a FF wheel drive car with more then 220 hp. i'm sure i have seen drag racers with a lot more hp then that, but i could be wrong.

[rlan214]

QUOTE (macavely @ Dec 23 2002, 02:30 AM)

Now is someone could help me out with this one question i have. why can't you have a FF wheel drive car with more then 220 hp. i'm sure i have seen drag racers with a lot more hp then that, but i could be wrong.

you can dude
look at the neon sr4 or whatever that ****box chrysler made
thats over 220 horsies over(i think)

[ghostdog]

its not really a matter of whether a FF car can have 250 or more hp. its a matter of whether you want that much power in a FF. look at what SCC said about the new SRT-4. its got horrible torque steer, spins tires without thinking twice about it, and their first recommended upgrade is a LSD. plain and simple, front-wheel drive is a bad platform for serious power.

[FallenHero]

If I could run 13's I wouldn't really care if it would turn. I figure 200-250 is all anybody would need. (well, unless you realy wanted to put the hurt on your Euro supercar friends.)

[NEVERSTOP]

QUOTE

What John said is ABSOLUTELY correct. And Neverstop, I would like an answer to Charlie's question as well. If you did perform an AWD conversion, I would like to know more information. Because performing an AWD conversion for under $1k is HIGHLY unbelieveable. You could barely buy a ST185 clip for that price.

That was just for the Rearend... not the whole swap. when I got my 3sgte it came with the transmission and transfercase... all I had to get was just the rearend, driveshaft and suspension out of a st205 for me to convert to allwheel drive..

to do the conversion you will need a 3sgte and transmission that comes with it.

The conversion is really easy to do..
Raise up the vehicle and support it with jack stands at least 2.
unbolt the stock rearend.
unbolt or break the welds.. depends on how yours is mounted... for you gas tank. be sure that yo have disconnected the fuel pump
Move your ST205 rearend under vehicle.
You will need to do some cutting to the floor panels to allow the pumpkin to fit.
connect drive shaft to transfercase.
Bolt up suspension and rearend to vehicle and driveshaft to rearend... will need some extra hands.

this is really not that hard to do and I completed it with the help of a few friends in about 5-6 hours.

By the way.. I called TRD about the 4agze fitting in a GT... the 4agze is too wide for it to fit correctly into the GT subframe. you could make it fit but would be lossing alot of strenght in the subframe... not a smart Idea.

BTW I was wrong about the 4agze fitting into the ST... like I said before I forget about the ST's most of the time and usally think from a GT point of mind... sorry