my 5SFTE turbo project, 300+whp PG 23!!!!!!! Options

[presure2]

hey guys, since i've been fielding alot of questions about turboing the 5s, and most of the links in the 5sfte sticky are dead, i figured i start a thread about the buildup of my kit, and try to include as many details as possible, so everyone can learn a little more about what exactly goes into a setup like this. ill keep updating the threads and adding pics and stuff as i upload more ect..
im not gonna get into the whole why not swap a 3s instead debate here, thats a dead issue as far as im concerned. (not that i think swapping is a bad idea, just not for me.)
so, ill start off by saying the single most important thing you can do if you wanna turbo your 5s is RESEARCH! take your time, learn about the diffrent systems that all work together to make a good kit work. go to www.howstuffworks.com and find out how EVERYTHING works, it'll make understanding the hows and whys of everything so much easier. i've been reserching about this for 2+yrs and i STILL learn new things everyday.
#2 is DONT BE CHEAP...can you do it cheap? yea..will it last? prolly not.
thats gotta be the SINGLE biggest mistake i see EVERYONE make. cheap out on all the little stuff, and it WILL come back to haunt you in the end
that said, i decided i wanted to turbo my 5s. lol
so, off on the hunt i went...parts lists, install sites, the burien kit...i searched it ALLLLLL...for MONTHS!! talking to people, looking at sites, printing info..basicly what the old timers call "goin to the woodshed"
then, i started looking for parts:
3s exhaust manifold, ct-26 turbo, oil hard lines, elbow and primary cat (also known as a downpipe), if your not planning on getting a aftermarket downpipe. also the oil pan and 2bar map sensor.
your gonna want these off of a 2nd gen 3sgte from a 90-93 alltrac or mr2T, and are pretty easy finds over on www.alltrac.net and or www.mr2oc.com. if your not a member of these 2 sites, YOU SHOULD BE!!! theres a wealth of info on these to sites, and while alot of it may not be 5sfte spacific, its still VERY good info, especially the 90-99 mr2/ 3sgte forum.
next was injectors. there is ALOT of confusion here, where to find them, what they look like, what size are they really ect.
what we're looking for is the MKIII N/A supra injectors. not turbo injectors, not alltrac injectors, N/A MKIII supra. theyre a lime green color, and 315cc. just to clear up another point of confusion, they do NOT become bigger injectors in our cars. the fuel pressure between the n/a supra and the 5s is the SAME.
there is a pic in the 5sfte sticky of what they look like and the flow tests to show it.
i found mine on ebay, but you can sometimes find them on some of the boards ive mentioned, and the supraforums.
also, i really reccomend having the injectors cleaned and balanced once you get them, if you look closley at the printout for my injectors in the sticky from when i had them cleaned and balanced, youll see why i say this.
one of my injectors wasnt even spraying, it was DRIPPING before it was cleaned. i'd HATE to see what would happen if i'd installed that thing in there and cranked up the boost!
so yea, i really cant stress enough, HAVE YOUR INJECTORS CLEANED BEFORE YOU INSTALL THEM!!! www.rceng.com did an excelent job on mine for about 100$, and ive heard thru the mr2 board that www.witchhunter.com also does a very good job, and are only 12$ per injector.

EDIT!!! 315CC injectors are TOO SMALL for use in a turbo 5sfe. 460cc rx7 injectors are a drop in replacement and are discribed later in this post!!!


you'll also need to upgrade your fuel pump, use the 255lph walboro supra pump. you can get it for under 100 usually on ebay., and pretty much bolts in.
next for me was the intercooler..now contrary to popular belief, bigger IS NOT always better when it comes to intercoolers.
you wanna choose the smallest intercooler to fit your needs, with a LITTLE room for growth. for instance, in my case, my goal is around 190-200whp for now, so i chose a intercooler thats 26x6x3 overall length, with endtanks. its good for up to 300hp. why not somthing bigger? well, the #1 reason is theres no NEED for anything bigger. lol the bigger you go, the more pressure drop you have, and thats not what we want. with all the piping invloved for a 5sfte FMIC, the last then we want is some big honking core, sucking up 2-3 or more psi of the boost we wanna get to our engines.
for the piping, again, bigger is NOT always better. 2" or 2.25 " is more than sufficent for us. you'll need to buy pre-bent lengths and cut and fit them for your particular setup. jcwhitney is cheap for aluminized steel, or burns stainless if you want stainless pipes.
then the noise maker of the bunch , the BOV...your choice here, i chose the HKS SSQV... got it from ebay for 190+ shipping i think it was..just make sure your buying the real thing if its from ebay, theres alot of shady copys floating around. youll also need a mounting flange to have welded to your intercooler piping, make sure you get the correct size and material to match your piping.
TOO BE CONTINUED...

This post has been edited by presure2: Nov 11, 2007 - 10:53 AM

[presure2]

a word about piping couplers and clamps here.
DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON THIS STUFF!!!!
buy good high quality REINFORCED silicone hose for couplers, and dont cheap out and use those screw-type radiator hose clamps. get some good t-bolt clamps. the screw type bite into the soft silicone, and ruin it over time, causing leaks..ect..IMO do it once, do it right. it'll cost you more up front, but not as much as if you have to buy things twice.
for exhaust, your at the very minimum gonna have to have a new b-pipe welded up to mate to your stock exhaust, not really recommended tho, it WILL be a very large restriction.
its a good time to think custom exhaust here, you can have it built to suit your needs.
im planning on using 2.5" piping from the bottom of my DP back,with a magnflo race muffler on the end, for 2 reasons:
#1 is if for any reason i need to remove the turbo stuff, i can still use my 2.5" piping n/a with a new b pipe, and #2 because i dont see the need for anything bigger with my goals. sure i could go 3" but theres really no need with my setup, so why pay the extra $$ for bigger piping when i dont need to
next up, electronics!
mac, you'll get to drive her after ive driven her good and hard for a WHILE, i know you have NO mercy
adam: after the way you drove at the meet that time, you can drive my car the next day that dont end in y

[shin]

this is an excellent post. i'll be following your steps to complete my 5sfte set up.

[1bwilson]

Thanks Manny

[presure2]

ok gauges..first of course, is a boost gauge, we all know what thats for. what you do after that with gauges is up to you, but ill give you the ones im getting and why i think theyre basicly a must.
oil pressure gauge...if you loose oil pressure, your engine is toast. period. need i say more? lol
EGT (exhaust gas temp.) this is a marginal one...do you NEEEEED to have it? no, prolly not, is it a good thing? hell yes. the higher your EGT is, the closer you are to detonation. bad bad bad.
now im gonna mention a wideband o2 here, and just say its basic use is for tuning. ill get into more detail about that later on..cause its more of a extra than most of this other stuff im talking about now.
ok next is fuel & timing control.
there are a couple ways to go about this, since we need to have a way to control the bigger injectors, we need somthing to add and remove fuel where needed.
thats where a unit like the SAFC or SAFCII come in. what they do in simple terms is take the air flow signal coming that normally goes to the ecu and "tricks" it into thinking there is either more or less air going into the engine, depending on what you do with the settings. now the bad thing about this is when you remove fuel with a piggyback like the SAFC, the ecu thinks theres less air going into the engine than what actually is, and adds timing. this is a bad thing. it leads to your engine going boom. lol
you can also use a unit like the greddy emanage, or the perfect power SMT-6 or 7
both of these units will give you much greater control of fuel AND timing in one unit, and are setup and controlled via laptop.
last here will be turbo timer, just cause i think its one of those things that you dont HAVE to have, but it dont hurt, either
basicly what that does, is allows the car to remain idleing after you shut the car off for X amount of time, depending on which one you have. they all work alittle diffrent, but its purpose is the same, to allow time for your oil to cool abit after hard driving so that the oil dont cake up inside the turbo.
one more thing you wanna think about is your clutch, is it up to the task of handling almost double the power it normally sees? you may wanna think about upgrading to a aftermarket clutch, like a spec, act, clutchmasters or whatever you prefer, thats another debate all together on which to choose, everyone has theyre two cents when it comes to clutches
LOTS MORE TO COME! (we'll start getting serious here with pics and stuff in a bit here, i promise!! haha)

[x_itchy_b_x]

Like you were saying about the Safc for tuning fule how it advances timing. if you use the msd Btm u dont really need to worry about that since all the safc corrections basicly go through the btm last. so the btm is still incontrol of timing no the stock ecu. you know what i mean?

[94GT]

Are you going to scrap the stock oil cooler? The burien instructions act like it's no big deal, but I've seen other posts on this site that preach lower oil temps...

[blu94gt]

just curious what kind of turbo are you using? And what is your estimated cost?

And I don't know where else to put this, but where could I find very small gauges to fit under my stereo in that cubby? I want gauges that are that small so I can close that door on them so I don't have punks looking in my car and seeing all of it, so they'll have to run me to see what I've got for them

[presure2]

hey guys sorry i havent updated this week, i have really buzy installing hardwood floors, by the time i get home from work all i wanna do is go to sleep..lol
ill write a bunch more this weekend, for now ill just answer a couple questions..
itchy, your right, thats why i mentioned it there. the btm takes back the timing the safc adds if you use it to remove fuel.
94GT, no plans to do anything with the stock oil cooler, but the oil filter does have to be relocated. ill talk more about that once i get into the actuall install here.
blu94, im gonna be using a ct-27 from ATS racing, basicly its a ct-26 that has a TO4E 46 trim compressor wheel, and extensive machine work to the exhaust housing to improve flow.
there are a bunch of reasons why, again, ill get to them later on. a short version is i wanted somthing more effecient, that would create less heat.
as for gauges, ive seen a couple pics of 60mm gauges installed in that pocket your talking about but i think the surrounding parts were trimmed and massaged to fit properly, and i dont think they were set up like you described so that you could "shut the door"..
dont worry guys, this sh*t will get interesting here soon, i promise!

[rjbibeau]

how much is that ct-27 runnin ya?? 800 or so. i think turbonetics converts the ct-26 into a t3-t4 setup. i'm looking into it cuz i think my ct-26 pooped out on me.

[presure2]

its like 850 w/core, plus im having the wastegate ported too for another 75$.
To4E 46trim compressor side, and machining out the exhaust housing for improved flow...good stuff ill write a bunch more this weekend guys, been a REAL buzy week at work.

[presure2]

ok i wanna talk a little here about oil lines.
there are a TON of questions about what to do for the oil feed and return lines, so here are a few ideas for you to think about.
now, to get oil to feed your turbo, the quickest and easiest way for us is to use some type of adapter to tap into the head where your stock oil pressure switch is.
now some people will say to just use a cheap brass T off the head...IMO this is a VERY, VERY bad idea. its just a recipie for disaster, and heres why:
that cheap brass T is made of BRASS, a very soft metal. when you screw that into the head, and hand your heavy stock sensor off the other end, and have your feed line coming out of it, it puts alot of stress on that fitting. with all the engine vibration going on, its just a matter of time before it cracks. and that will NOT be cool if your driving down the road when it happens..lol
the better solution is to use this peice:

you can get it here:
click me
it made of steel for much better strength, and has the right thread pitch for our head, and senders. they make 2 versions. one with 2 holes, and one with 3. if you wanna use a aftermarket oil pressure gauge you'll need the one with 3 ( its called the dual, cause they dont count the hole for your stock sender.
its about 20$ plus shipping, well worth it IMO
now the next thing is the oil feed line, and what to use for it.
the line for the oil feed should be no larger than -3an (3/16") alot of people have used re-enforced rubber hose for this, but IMO its one of those things where it just makes sense to spend the money to do it right to avoid problems later on.
www.atpturbo.com will custom make you a pre assembled -3an line with whatever ends you need, (1 straight, 1 90 degree)you want it to be ~16-18" long, tops. for ~ 40$ shipped. it looks like this:

then you just buy 2 STEEL -3an to 1/8"npt fittings, they looks like this:

you can get them from www.summitracing.com for under 3$ ea +shipping. the PT # is EAR961603ERL
use one for the head fitting i talked about earlier, and take the other fitting, and the stock oil line to you local machine shop, and have them cut the banjo bolt off the stock line, and weld the fitting onto it. heres a few pics of what i am talking about.
what it looks like with the fitting welded onto it:

with the feed line attached:

complete setup with adapter fitting for the head and autometer oil pressure gauge sender attached:

with that setup, you can pretty much forget about it, once its been run and know theres no leaks.
for the return, IMO the best setup is the stock 3s setup, meaning the 3s oil pan (yes it bolts right up) with the stock 3s rubber elbow between that and the stock return line. the rubber elbow is like 38$ from toyota, but again, its not one of those things where you wanna cheap out. its worked on the 3s for 10+ yrs, it'll work for us as well. more to come!

This post has been edited by presure2: Feb 15, 2009 - 8:26 AM

Attached image(s)

 

[urbandork]

the better solution is to use this peice:

you can get it here:
click me
it made of steel for much better strength, and has the right thread pitch for our head, and senders. they make 2 versions. one with 2 holes, and one with 3.  if you wanna use a aftermarket oil pressure gauge you'll need the one with 3 ( its called the dual, cause they dont count the hole for your stock sender.
its about 20$ plus shipping, well worth it IMO

[right][snapback]269514[/snapback][/right]

i have ordered this peice a few weeks back after stumbling on to the site. Good customer service and fast shipping. The fitting came neatly packaged, it also came with one npt plug (i got the dual) and it also look nice. Looking foward to putting it on in a few months.

btw pressure whats the lenght of the hose for the feed line.

This post has been edited by urbandork: Apr 12, 2005 - 11:56 AM

[Newbie]

How about coolant lines.. Any pictures of that, anyone? Thanks.

[presure2]

ok guys since its been awhile since i updated this i figured id give it a bump up and get it going again, been ordering up the last bit of parts i need to complete my kit, i should be installing everything by june 1 if all goes well
first, as some of you might have seen, i recently went to the dyno to get a baseline of what kinda power the 5s is making right now, before the install. i left there pleasantly suprized that she put down 115whp and 127ftlbs of torque on her best run, with only a injen intake installed.
leads me to believe that arts(lagos') motor is in very healthy shape, just as i suspected when i bought it.
so after that, i took my used 3s exhaust manifold over to the local machine shop to have them drill and tap a hole for my EGT gauge, and resurface it as well.
here are a couple before pics:


heres a few after





now THATS good stuff!!
it really does look just like a new peice, they sandblasted it for me. it cost 42$ total to have it all done.
now that that is done, its been sent off to finishline coatings for ceramic coating
ill post more pics of it when it gets back from them.
lots more to come!
lots more pics to come!

This post has been edited by presure2: Jan 1, 2008 - 9:51 AM

[Drocay]

very nice, bro.

good job.

[presure2]

i also have been working on getting my oil feed line and oil filter relocation kit in order, here are some pics of that stuff:
heres a pic of where we tap into the head for the oil feed, the stock oil sender location

the steel T with the stock and aftermarket senders attached


heres some of the oil filter relocation kit parts, all stainless braided hose -10 and earls fittings:
everything

the fittings

[presure2]

the canton racing oil filter relocation adapter

the trans-dapt filter side

still LOTS more to come

[CelicaZR]

This will be very helpful for me in the future
No money to do anything yet
Keep up the good work man

[94GT]

Update?

[presure2]

94GT Posted Today, 03:44 PM
  Update?

like home depot, you got questions, we got answers..LMAO!!! j/k
the update is that im waiting on all my parts to arrive, install date is june 3-5 as long as everything makes it here it time, which "shouldnt" be a problem, as long as damn fed-ex dont LOSE another package on me for 4 days! haha they "lost" my intercooler piping last week for 4 days..then found it in columbus, OH..lol
anyway, heres a few pics of the stuff thats been coming in the post few days..
my MBC from www.twosrus.com

my intercooler piping from jc whitney that fex ex lost..lol

some of the couplers and clamps from high temp silicone

..i think thats about all for now, LOTS more to come in the next week or so, im expecting my turbo back from ATS and my manifold from finishline coatings, as well as the last of the parts for the install

[x_itchy_b_x]

woot for T bolts

[Dr_Tweak]

like home depot, you got questions, we got answers..LMAO!!! j/k

Sorry but, isn't that Radio Shack? And Home Depot is "You can do it, we can help"...?

LOL

Looking really good bud, keep up the good work.

[presure2]

heres a few more pics for you guys..
the magnaflow muffler...3"inlet, 4" tip




also picked up a bunch of little parts from toyota, heres a quick pic of everything, ill post much more detailed pics of that stuff later



This post has been edited by presure2: Jan 1, 2008 - 10:04 AM

[presure2]

got my battery tray/holder in earlier today, and my exhaust manifold should be here within a couple hrs..
heres a few pics of the optima battery and tray/holder, got that from ebay, and the battery at the local pepboys.
pics of the manifold later tonight!

[presure2]

heres a couple pics of my exhaust manifold after the hi-temp ceramic coating that was done by www.finishlinecoatings.com . they did a excellent job, coated inside and out, good to 2000 degrees, and its warrantied for 3yrs, for 85$. according to them, it should lower under hood temps by up to 50%..good stuff.
pics before coating are a few posts back on the 1st page i think.

[presure2]

hey guys, big news... as some of you know, i got my turbo back from ats racing, ( click for pics and stuff of my ct-27 )
heres a pic of the turbo, manifold and downpipe mocked up on my spare engine.

so with that taken care of, it was time to try and install this stuff this weekend!!! WOOT
so, after work and stuff, the first order of buisness for me was to clear up the injector worries i had. i have a cali emissions car, which means my injectors are a bit diffrent then the normal 5s injectors, so i was worried that my injectors would not seal, and leak.
so, the 1st thing i did was pull the valve cover and work on getting the stock 5s injectors out. it took a little bit to get the passanger side injector(#4) out, but after a bit of wiggling, out it came.
now when it came time to install the supra injectors, i noticed that the spacers for the rail were to big, and the injectors wouldnt seat with them in, so i removed them and used the metal, smaller spacers from my old engine.
once i got the injectors in valve cover ect back on, it was time to fire it up and see what happen. needless to say, i had a couple fire extinguishers and a bucket of water handy, just in case!! haha
but, the wife turned it over, and bam, she sparked to life, no problems, no leaks!
made my night, to say the least!!!
so once that was taken care of, and we ate supper, i basicly started getting ready for the "meat&potatoes" of the install tommorow. i removed the alternator, stock exhaust manifold and dp, and removed the radiator, just for some extra room to work. also took out my battery, which will now be located in the trunk.
removed the cruise control box and bracket, not exactly sure what im gonna do with that yet, im not to concerned about it, we just about never use it anyway. tommorow, ill get most of the rest of the stuff installed, i have a few helpers coming over (dustin.. thanks, man!! ) that will help me rock this sh*t out.
hopefully sunday will be intercooler and piping day, then monday 9am to the exhaust shop, and hopfully by wensday on the dyno. hehee wish me luck guys.. i'll have TONS of pics over the next couple days, i forgot to bring home the camara tonight..lol

[jgreening]

I am excited for you Manny....its fun watching your build.

[Batman722]

[presure2]

hey dustin, at least you didnt get the big hole in my pants in the crotch on cam! hahahaha
guys, ill have TONS of pics for you today/tommorow, i havent brought the cam home yet.
wait till you see the kick as$ job dustin did with my battery relocation wiring. AWESOME. dude, your the man!
BOOOOOOOOST is almost ready!
hehehe

[Batman722]

I added some pics http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=25545

congratulations Manny

[presure2]

ok guys after a LONG weekend of hard work, its finally in. hehehehe
still some little things to button up and tidy up, but its all in and running.
here are a couple teasers till later on i gotta go to the exhaust shop and get the exhaust on there!
i gotta say first off, i CANNOT thank dustin enough for his help, there is NOWAY i would have done this all this weekend without him being there, he basicly wired up the battery relocation and all the gauges all by himself. simply awesome. plus all the other things he helped with.
ok heres a couple teaser pics till later on, i was so busy working this weeknd i didnt take that many really good pics...only about 80 or so

[rjbibeau]

are you taking your oil from the oil cooler part or the reloaction part by the fender well?

This post has been edited by rjbibeau: Jun 6, 2005 - 11:38 AM

[presure2]

are you taking your oil from the oil cooler part or the reloaction part by the fender well?

This post has been edited by rjbibeau: Today, 12:38 PM

oil feed for the turbo is taken from the pressure sending unit spot.
those big lines are for the filter relocation kit.

[Defgeph]

Congrats ! Great work man.

Looks awesome.
DEF

[trdevelopment]

s0 nice keep up the good work and keep the pictures comming lol

[presure2]

ok so, its been like 2 months or somthing since i updated this post...can u tell ive been enjoying boost???? hhahaha ill finish up this thread with LOTS of pics, there all pretty self explanitory from here on out..lol
so, heres how the install of all the crap on the past couple pages went on:

[presure2]

[presure2]

[presure2]

[presure2]

that sums up the turbo install.
that following monday, i went and had the exhaust done:





yes, its lowered 1.5"+ on eibach sportlines.
i havent hit yet, not even on the biggest speed bumps.

[presure2]

a few days later i went over to my local dynojet:
ok guys, just got back from the dyno, heres the results after 1hr of tuning..i NEED bigger injectors, thats the only thing holding me back right now..
the runs were @ about 8psi, it slowly creeps up to 9, almost 9.5 or 10 in the higher rpms..


all in all, VERY happy so far, ill prolly order a bigger set of injectors here REALLY soon...

[presure2]

and thats about where we stand today, 2.5months later. still running perfectly, did a few long trips in the car with boost,(philly, and NY a couple times) gotta love it!
the car just seems to LOVE boost, once i get the bigger injectors in and installed, ill be heading back to the dyno for more tuning, this time @ 12psi
im figuring if all goes as planned to see around 220+whp, and 240+ft lbs.
THAT will be sweet.
WOOT for the 5SFTE

[shin]

toooooooooooooo HOOOOOOOOOOOT~!! can't wait for mine to be installed

[OOBE]

WOOT! 12 PSI...if my puny little 7A-FE did it, so can your 5S-FE! Keep us posted and record vids.

This post has been edited by OOBE: Aug 17, 2005 - 11:33 AM

[presure2]

since i been fielding a bunch of questions about the ct-27, ill go ahead and add some pics and details here about it, for future refrence

the ct-27 is basicly a ct-26 upgrade that has been developed by ATS racing.
what it consists of is a ct-26 core, that has a TO4E "46" trim compressor wheel put in, and extensive machine work to the exhaust housing, to free up flow.

on top of that, i also had the wastegate area ported out, to try and prevent boost creep.
it still creeps but part of that is because i have a 3" turbo back exhaust too.

a ct-27 will run you 850$ with a good, working core, or 1150 without.
not cheap by ANY sense of the word.
then again, your basicly getting a BRAND NEW turbo, with a 1yr warranty.

here are a few pics of what mine looked like before i sent it:
the whole turbo:


the compressor side:


the exhaust side:


now for the AFTERS!!





the TO4E 46 trim compressor wheel:


the exhaust side:


the ported wastegate:




and there ya go!
the ct-27 from ats racing kicks A$$

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[presure2]

went back to the dyno with the 460cc injectors for round 2 on 9/19/05.
update is here:
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29127&hl=dyno
200+whp 240+ftlbs
went back again for round 3 with the 460cc injectors and a 50/50 mix of 110 sunoco race fuel and 93 pump on 3/21/06
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35631
230+whp 270+ftlbs

[presure2]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

ok guys, today officially makes ONE YEAR for the 5SFTE.
30+ dyno runs.
a dozen or so track runs
driven daily, and boosted HARD.

compression was tested a couple days ago, 178-180 across all 4 cylinders, perfect.

i think i've proved the point that i set out to when i started this project.

built right, the 5SFTE is a VERY viable option.

hopfully over the next year, i can continue to solidify the 5SFTE, and continue to push the motor.

im working on having an adjustable cam gear made, to try and open up the top end a little more, we'll see how that works.

any nasayers left??

[shin]

yea. this set up is an awesome set up. i'm looking forward to seeing you get the emanage ultimate and custom cam gears. hopefully one day we might see close to 300whp results

[lagos]

congrads manny !

[brianforster]

every time i see you post i get excited, haha

[dustin15brown]

whats the total cost on this project so far

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Happy birthday, 5SFTE! w00t.

Certainly has been a benchmark for me in tuning my car, without the work and research you put into this setup we wouldn't be nearly as informed as we are now.


I'm looking foward to many more years of kick-ass 5SFTE action.

[presure2]

whats the total cost on this project so far

prolly over 2500.
i coulda prolly kept it closer to 2k, if i had been patient when looking for my parts, and not getting the shaft on certain parts.
i also spent money in places where i didnt have to (IE: coating, the first set of injectors,BTM ect)
if i were doing it again, i could do it prolly at least 5-700$ cheaper, with the same results.

::edit:: after thinking about it for a little bit, im figuring i spent about 2800-3k on my setup.
if i knew then, what i know now, i could have done the same for about 2k-2200

[hitcachi]

Manny, just so you know, your pics on your piping route totally inspired the set-up that i currently have. Great flow, and has never bottomed out or anything. Nice work, dont stop now!

[j0e_p3t]

love your car. never would've thought a 5sfe could be as powerful as your's.

[massbrandon]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again. Youre my IDOL

[Cutrara]

Nice results. I love reading about your project, just goes to show an econo motor can put out some nice numbers.




This post has been edited by presure2: Jun 7, 2006 - 2:30 PM

[sugarfree]

Thats good to see that you have a turbo 5s last that long. I would consider it, but im sure the total $ is equal to just about a swap. Anyways good job, i hope to see more about this in the future.

[MaX]

love your work manny,

i know who to talk to when my 5SFTE begins

[Supersprynt]

blowing theyre motors to smitherinees

[Defgeph]

To one year and still going strong.





Congrats Manny & Jenn

[Batman722]

OK I have had first hand experience with this car for some time now (before and after the turbo).

The amount of time and research he has put into this car is unbelievable. He has assembled a turbo project that maximizes this car like no one has ever been able to do here. The funny thing is, he is still everyday thinking of way to try to improve it. It is crazy to me the amount of knowkedge and understanding he has about how everything works with this setup. It just blows my mind. The only area IMO that needs really improvement is better tunning, and that will be solved in the near future, and that is a key factor to making it even better.

with that all said, there is no doubt in my mind that anyone who builds a turbo kit for their 5s should go this route or as close to it as possible. It will without a doubt be reliable for everyday driving boosted between 7-10psi without problems for a considerable amout of time. Manny has gone were few other have and he is passing all of them.

The fact that the motor still has great compression across all 4 after the first year is unbelievable. When he says he drives the car hard it is an understatment, Manny drives this car like it was meant to be driven - harder than I have ever driven a car, harder I have ever seen anyone drive a car (other than his wife ).

happy 1 year anniversary, yaa, I bring you a cupcake with a candle. Congrats man. There will be a few more.

[elvasoshexai]

one day my celi is gonna grow up to be just like urs!... one of these days!

This post has been edited by elvasoshexai: Jun 7, 2006 - 1:58 PM

[presure2]

thanks for all the props, guys. i appreciate it, as well as the wife
one thing i want to make perfectly clear:
there is no "secret formula" to this setup.
anyone on this site could very easily duplicate my setup, very easily.
its just a matter of doing the proper research, and applying what you learn.
im BY FAR not a rocket scientist...not by any means.
im just a regular guy, like all of you, that was looking for a way to add some "kick" to the car.
needless to say, i feel like ive been somewhat sucsessfull in my goal.

[WALKER]

...im just a regular guy, like all of you, ...

I would like to say one thing, I don't believe you are a regular guy like all of us. Most regular guys just do without taking time to think! You have taken the time to research and research and research before jumping into the deep end. From what I have noticed too many people seem to get in over their heads too late. Not enough are taking the time to research before doing. I think that is the biggest thing that I have picked up and am learning from you is to take lots of time and have all the questions answered before doing anything. That is what I want to thank you for is teaching that patience will pay off in the end! Thanks.

[presure2]

...im just a regular guy, like all of you, ...

I would like to say one thing, I don't believe you are a regular guy like all of us. Most regular guys just do without taking time to think! You have taken the time to research and research and research before jumping into the deep end. From what I have noticed too many people seem to get in over their heads too late. Not enough are taking the time to research before doing. I think that is the biggest thing that I have picked up and am learning from you is to take lots of time and have all the questions answered before doing anything. That is what I want to thank you for is teaching that patience will pay off in the end! Thanks.

walker, you hit the nail on the head.
research and common sense are the 2 keys to the 5sfte.
use them both wisely and you can have a well boosted 5sfte for a long time.

[frosty]

I love this post and it really helps out in the research.

I guess the only question I have at this moment is what is your gas mileage now since you reached those whp#'s? You guys know me, always gotta ask something as miniscule as that .

[presure2]

frosty, gas milage is all dependant on the right foot.
the more you press it, the faster you waste it.
im a road trip, where im not in boost much, i can still get 350-400miles to a tank.
or boosting hard around town and what not, i can waste it within a couple hundered or so miles, i guess. never really tried to pay attention to the gas milage to be honest, the only time ive ever really checked it is on trips..

[frosty]

frosty, gas milage is all dependant on the right foot.
the more you press it, the faster you waste it.

Heard that!

im a road trip, where im not in boost much, i can still get 350-400miles to a tank.
or boosting hard around town and what not, i can waste it within a couple hundered or so miles, i guess. never really tried to pay attention to the gas milage to be honest, the only time ive ever really checked it is on trips..

eh, I was just wondering. I figured it would drop, just didn't know if it would be significantly noticable. Either way, I can handle spending a bit more on gas. Plus, with the hp increase, it'll be worth it!

[shin]

manny's research and info have opened a better way of building a 5sfte and that's why i learn from the man. with manny, jenn, jeff and dustin's help i have a beautiful 5sfte set up too. not to mention that they have taught me, a guy who doesn't even change his own oil before till someone whole would now do his own tune up etc. most definately a very worthwhile learning experience.


This post has been edited by shin: Jun 16, 2006 - 3:27 PM

[jgreening]

long live the 5sfte! Good job Manny - your is a project that all hard-core 6gc'ers are proud of.

[puretone]

hi, i got a 5th gen 5SFE that i turbo'd, i know i know 5gen etc whatever, same engine and i too did ALOT of research.....

welded up my own manifold because i was just not impressed with the burien/OEM turbo manifold.
i use a Schwitzer t3-ish turbo, found on saabs for the most part....
Supra MK4 NA injectors, non-California spec....i dont live in the USA anyways, these suckers spray about 550cc (!) Call the friendly guys at burien toyota for the part number, i always forget to stash it in a word-document in my computer......23250-46xxx i think it is
SW20 MAP sensor.
TRE-Performance 255LPH fuel pump.

Stock ECU does fine with this MAP sensor/Injector set up. No freak-outs on the timing at all. From what i hear from the local toyota dealer (i befriended some of the Mech's after i stunned them with my build...) they told me the 3S & 5S ECU's are practically the same unit, the MAP signal on both ECU's is designed to read boost as well, AS LONG AS IT COMES FROM THE RIGHT type of MAP sensor. Non turbo MAP sensor freaks out with boost, doing the check-valve trick doesn't really cut it correctly, plus the signal it sends is always off by a few tenths of a volt. SW20 MAP sensor & Supra Injectors are the way to go.

i did some wideband O2 logging, i run slightly rich at idle, about 10.8/12 : 1 ratio, at 12psi boost it hits 9:1 or around there most of the time. Thanks Zeitronix you are teh bestest

i run NO msd bits at this point in time, timing is slightly retarded, like 8degrees, i know the ECU compensates for this, but for some reason its not detonating.

presure2: may i suggest you do this same combo, i bet your setup will hit 300HP easy with these bigger injectors & MAP.

i'll be putting in a jdm Beams 3SGE red top over the next week or so, turbo gonna be on the work bench for a while till i build a newer-ish setup for the new engine....

pics can be found at:
http://www.bitcrusher.org/gallery/celicahacking?page=3
http://www.bitcrusher.org/gallery/celicahacking?page=4

[presure2]

puretone,
i actually am using the 2bar map, just out of a alltrac instead of a mr2, same unit tho.
im also using 460cc injectors, which are good for over 275whp..which is beyond my goal.
no msd stuff on the car.
im pushing 270hp+(flywheel) and over 310ftlbs as it is, all im after in the FWD format is another 15whp and ill be more than satisfied.
in fact, the car is difficult to handle as it is on hard launches as it is.

[puretone]

puretone,
i actually am using the 2bar map, just out of a alltrac instead of a mr2, same unit tho.
im also using 460cc injectors, which are good for over 275whp..which is beyond my goal.
no msd stuff on the car.
im pushing 270hp+(flywheel) and over 310ftlbs as it is, all im after in the FWD format is another 15whp and ill be more than satisfied.
in fact, the car is difficult to handle as it is on hard launches as it is.

oh ha! i was looking at your pics, i still need to figure this forum out, i musta been looking at your older pics of what seemed to look like the old MAP sensor & 300cc injectors.

yeah the 2bar SW20 MAP sensor is the way to go....alltrac 2bar MAP is the *same* thing, altho its listed with a slightly different part number in the Toyota micro-fiches, i dont get why.

have you done any wideband with those 460cc injectors? Im wondering if the 460cc units you got are the california-spec/carb units they also use in Japan....bit leaner i suppose.

Have you tried the fuel-pump direct-relayed to battery hack those honda kiddies do? A buddy of mine did it, after which i did it as well, datalogging showed/proved that getting a nice steady (read: unimpeded voltage supply) to the fuel pump dropped both our Air-Fuel Ratio's by aroun 1.5 to 2 points. That might be good for those 15 extra HP you are looking for.....

[presure2]

naa, no need for any fuel mods at this point.
i have pleanty available fuel for the boost level and power level im at.
if you look back a page or so and look at my dyno charts, i have plenty of fuel there, and am actually pulling fuel out with the SAFCII.
in order to max out the injectors, id really have to turn the boost up a bunch, and thats somthing im not willing to do, just to lay down a number.
i use a wideband while tuning on the dyno.
the injectors are out of a n/a rx-7, denso units. the PT # is in my profile.

[puretone]

i use a wideband while tuning on the dyno.
the injectors are out of a n/a rx-7, denso units. the PT # is in my profile.

excellent.
do you know what the Air/Fuel ratio was during boost levels?

i just nailed the part number on my injectors:

23209-46031 $153.96 $0.00 $118.55
Fuel system - Fuel induction - Fuel injection - Injector
INJECTOR, Supra, w/o Turbo, Federal 1993 - 1994

prolly a good part number to keep for future modders to know about....

im really curious as to what your wideband says, are you located high up from sealevel?

[presure2]

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\RunFile_027.drf
Run Title:
Run Notes:
Run Date: 4/1/2006 5:36:55 PM

RunFile_027.drf: 73.93 °F 30.08 in-Hg Humidity: 6 % STD: 0.99 Average Gear Ratio: 63.62

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel *BOOST
0.35 2.10 N/A N/A 12.67 -14.70
0.67 2.20 61.22 146.14 11.34 -14.70
0.99 2.30 66.36 151.54 11.10 -14.70
1.27 2.40 69.25 151.54 10.67 -14.70
1.56 2.50 78.51 164.94 10.01 -14.70
1.83 2.60 87.79 177.34 10.17 -14.70
2.08 2.70 95.97 186.67 10.62 -14.70
2.32 2.80 104.48 195.97 10.72 -14.70
2.54 2.90 113.50 205.55 10.66 -14.70
2.75 3.00 124.03 217.12 10.97 -14.70
2.95 3.10 135.87 230.19 11.38 -14.70
3.13 3.20 147.18 241.56 11.72 -14.70
3.32 3.30 158.96 252.99 12.05 -14.70
3.49 3.40 167.21 258.29 12.38 -14.70
3.68 3.50 171.82 257.83 12.38 -14.70
3.86 3.60 176.57 257.60 12.28 -14.70
4.03 3.70 183.72 260.78 12.17 -14.70
4.21 3.80 190.32 263.05 12.14 -14.70
4.39 3.90 194.91 262.48 12.10 -14.70
4.57 4.00 199.10 261.43 12.05 -14.70
4.74 4.10 205.13 262.77 12.05 -14.70
4.91 4.20 211.24 264.15 12.13 -14.70
5.09 4.30 216.30 264.20 12.18 -14.70
5.27 4.40 219.38 261.86 12.12 -14.70
5.46 4.50 221.60 258.64 11.90 -14.70
5.65 4.60 221.94 253.40 11.52 -14.70
5.83 4.70 224.40 250.76 11.20 -14.70
6.03 4.80 225.91 247.19 11.11 -14.70
6.23 4.90 227.57 243.93 11.07 -14.70
6.43 5.00 227.05 238.50 11.04 -14.70
6.63 5.10 227.10 233.88 11.00 -14.70
6.84 5.20 226.16 228.43 10.93 -14.70
7.06 5.30 225.07 223.04 10.84 -14.70
7.27 5.40 224.00 217.86 10.83 -14.70
7.50 5.50 222.79 212.75 10.75 -14.70
7.74 5.60 221.82 208.04 10.77 -14.70
7.97 5.70 219.46 202.22 10.75 -14.70
8.22 5.80 217.91 197.32 10.85 -14.70
8.48 5.90 215.00 191.39 10.70 -14.70
8.74 6.00 211.15 184.83 10.50 -14.70
9.02 6.10 204.05 175.68 10.47 -14.70
9.32 6.20 197.60 167.39 10.32 -14.70
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 9.32 6.20 227.57 264.20 12.67 -14.70
MIN: 0.35 2.10 61.22 146.14 10.01 -14.70
thats a data import of my last run.
thats also with a 50/50 mix of race and pump fuel. so the a/f ratio can acutally be a little leaner than with pump.
i am about 300ft above sea level. nothing worth noting.

[IdiotStick]

So pressure, in your honest opinion here. If you were to build another Celica, would you do this again or would you go with the 3SGTE? Powerwise, I mean. Im trying to decide if I want to just turbo my 5, or to swap it out and get a 3sgte...

Also, I just read the entire topic and I am very impressed at your knowledge in the subject of turbo's and how the entire engine works. I am in the very first stage of what you had in this. The research stage. I've been reading and studying how the engine works myself. How is the aftermarket support for internal parts for the 5? Thats my main issue. I want to go all into one of these beasts but if the internal support isnt there, I might just stick with the 3s...simply because you can get parts for it.

I did notice something though, the torque is higher than the Hp. I love seeing that on 4 cyls, because its hard to find (unless you have very small hp ).

Again, I say congrats to you sir.

[presure2]

i would do it again in a second, only insead of getting the safcII and btm, id get the emanage ultimate right from the get go, and prolly would go with a stock ct-26 rebuild, and not the ct-27.

[WALKER]

and prolly would go with a stock ct-26 rebuild, and not the ct-27.

What is your reasoning for not going the CT-27 route? Do you not feel are not using enough of the compressor curve to make the extra money worth it?

[presure2]

naa, i just feel like i could have used the extra money from that somewhere else..
the ct-27 works great for me, and has given me excellent results, but over the past yr + ive come to realize that the biggest restriction for us is the ecu.
with the very small amount of adjustent the SAFCII gives us, it really doesnt do what we need it to.
IMO one of the big issues with the 5sfTe is timing, and some form of control with it.
the BTM is one way of doing that, but, its VERY crude.
i could never get the car to feel better than what it did when i had it turned to 0, so i took mine out.
looking back, at going over my dyno charts, (man, how a year of studying them things can help!) its pretty easy to see how timing is being pulled right @ 4450rpm.
IMO the reason it does that is because of the stock ECU timing maps. an NA car can tolorate more timing than a turbo car.
so, the more boost you run, the worse it is for the ecu, cause as boost builds, the stock ecu is adding more timing than what should be there for a boosted motor. which causes it to knock harder, pulling more timing.
IMO i verifyed this when i run on the dyno with the race fuel mix.
i've learned from researching on mr2oc that one of the benifits of race fuel, is that it allows you to run more timing, as it is less prone to detonation.
with that in mind, that was one of the reasons for trying it.
and, when i did, there was a VERY pronounced improvment in the car.
it no longer pulled timing at 4450rpm like it does on pump fuel at all.
if you look thru my dyno sheets i have posted, you can see how much smoother the 50/50 race fuel/ 93 pump runs are.
IMO the SAFC just makes the problem worse because of the way it "tricks" the ecu into thinking there is more or less airflow, and because of that, it adjusts timing at the same time, and we really dont know how much it does.
the manage ultimate does things much diffrently.
it ties directly into your injector wiring, to control injector opening times, and ties into the crank and cam signals in the distributor for timing control.
that will be a MUCH better way of controlling things, IMO.
i'd hoped to have it by now, but $$ has been short this summer.
hopfully over the next couple months, ill be able to get that, and install it.
once i do, it should REALLY open up things for me, and in turn, all of you
i finally picked up a wideband a couple weeks ago, and that is REALLY helping to paint a better picture for me of what is going on, and i think the combination of that and the emanage ultimate will go a long way toward getting a much better tune on the 5SFTE.

[lagos]

manny, you are the MANny! its great how much you learned and how far that little 5sfe has gone.

did you ever try retarding the timing at the distributor and seeing if it changes anything? if the problem is from too much NA timing, wouldnt and overall timing retard help out with that in a big way?

[Bitter]

retard at the distributor would only help when he was in boost, off boost the engine would be a dead dog! you really need dynamic advance and retard which is based off of boost pressure.

[lagos]

retard at the distributor would only help when he was in boost, off boost the engine would be a dead dog! you really need dynamic advance and retard which is based off of boost pressure.

yeah, i know what you mean. but one thing i noticed about my own car, is that on a turbo motor, there is no such thing as "off boost" . its always spooling, and alwasy helping the motor along. even if your not making any PSI. looking at mannys dyno's, there is lots of low end torque, so i dont think it would be a huge problem.

[presure2]

manny, you are the MANny! its great how much you learned and how far that little 5sfe has gone.

did you ever try retarding the timing at the distributor and seeing if it changes anything? if the problem is from too much NA timing, wouldnt and overall timing retard help out with that in a big way?

lol good stuff art.
ive thought about doing that, but im not willing to sacrifice any off boost drivability.
i just accept the fact that there is a hole in my tuning @ 4500rpm.
once i get the emanage ultimate, i should be able to correct all that without too much of a problem

[x_itchy_b_x]

yeah tuning is a crucial link in good performing motor. hopefully after manny plays with emanange 5sfter everywhere will finally have a solid base to build off of with the tuninig end. hope it works out for you manny the man.

[Agent21]

Manny if you want to try it I can get a hold of some sunoco 98 octane 260 GTX runs like a bat outta hell in my stock 5sfe. But it is an experimental fuel and it may take me some time to get to it.

[presure2]

Manny if you want to try it I can get a hold of some sunoco 98 octane 260 GTX runs like a bat outta hell in my stock 5sfe. But it is an experimental fuel and it may take me some time to get to it.

thanks for the offer man, but i have access to the full sunoco line at 2 places up here.
when i do run the race gas mix, its 110 leaded race fuel and 93 pump that i mix.

[lagos]

dont forget to take our your wideband, next time you run leaded fuel. it tends to kill them from what ive read.

[presure2]

dont forget to take our your wideband, next time you run leaded fuel. it tends to kill them from what ive read.

thats only with extended use, for the little bit that i do use it, it will be fine.
(it also is bad for your normal O2 sensors as well)

[6strngs]

manny, I love your car dude. I've got a couple questions on the 5sfte though, as I've been considering it alot recently.

1. how much PSI are you boosting for daily driving, and how much during your dyno runs?

2. what fuel octane are you running for daily driving? the highest I can get around here is 91, do you think that'd be ok to use?

I suppose my biggest concerns of this whole thing is that my engine has just passed 150K a couple days ago. I don't know how long my engine would last after turboing it. this is my daily driver, and I'm a poor college student. if my engine blows, I'm without a car.

and my third question: Do you think you're car would be making the same hp numbers if you'd gone with a CT-26, or even something totally different?

[presure2]

manny, I love your car dude. I've got a couple questions on the 5sfte though, as I've been considering it alot recently.

1. how much PSI are you boosting for daily driving, and how much during your dyno runs?

2. what fuel octane are you running for daily driving? the highest I can get around here is 91, do you think that'd be ok to use?

I suppose my biggest concerns of this whole thing is that my engine has just passed 150K a couple days ago. I don't know how long my engine would last after turboing it. this is my daily driver, and I'm a poor college student. if my engine blows, I'm without a car.

and my third question: Do you think you're car would be making the same hp numbers if you'd gone with a CT-26, or even something totally different?

i run 11-12lbs daily...the last set of runs were @ 13psi
i use the highest octane i can get at my local stations (93)
the #s would definetly be down abit with a ct-26, but not a whole lot...the biggest change would be how much torque i make.

[lagos]

I'm a poor college student. if my engine blows, I'm without a car.

its probably best to keep it stock then.

[elvasoshexai]

i run 11-12lbs daily...the last set of runs were @ 13psi
i use the highest octane i can get at my local stations (93)
the #s would definetly be down abit with a ct-26, but not a whole lot...the biggest change would be how much torque i make.

so how much u think a ct20b's #s would be compared to urs? overall lower#s? more hp but less tq?

[presure2]

i run 11-12lbs daily...the last set of runs were @ 13psi
i use the highest octane i can get at my local stations (93)
the #s would definetly be down abit with a ct-26, but not a whole lot...the biggest change would be how much torque i make.

so how much u think a ct20b's #s would be compared to urs? overall lower#s? more hp but less tq?

since the '27 is supossed to be very close to the 20b in terms of performance (20b= a little quicker spool ct27= more overall whp), i would expect pretty close to the same results.

[NuclearHappineS]

its probably best to keep it stock then.

you could do some basic mods that can carry over when u get boosted later (exhaust, pullies, cams , suspension)

[6strngs]

so, what's better about the greddy emanage ultimate than just the plain emanage?

if I did your set-up, but used a CT-26 instead of the 27, and an emanage instead of the SAFC and MSD BTM, and added a catalytic converter or two to the 3" exhaust, do you think I could reliably reach 200 hp at the wheels on 91 octane fuel? including a koyo aluminum radiator, and maybe cams if I could find some. (does anyone make cams for the 5sfe?)

[presure2]

the ultimate adds timing control, as well as several other features.
cams would help a bunch to get you to the 200whp mark.
there are a couple companys that make regrinds for the 5sfe.
the radiator wont do anything for you other than look pretty and take up more room.
ive never seen my coolant temps rise higher than normal with the turbo.

[6strngs]

the ultimate adds timing control, as well as several other features.
cams would help a bunch to get you to the 200whp mark.
there are a couple companys that make regrinds for the 5sfe.
the radiator wont do anything for you other than look pretty and take up more room.
ive never seen my coolant temps rise higher than normal with the turbo.

the radiator is mostly because my current one is leaking and I need a new radiator and it costs about the same to get a koyo one as it does for a stock one. so why not?